That's all good and well, but it's your job, deal with it. If you don't like negative feedback, get out of the service industry. Coming here and telling gamers to screw off because of inferior product design fixes nothing and just gives them more fuel for their fire against developers. Blaming the developers for everything is wrong, blaming the consumers for everything is also wrong. Both parties are at fault, and developers aren't infallible. Learn to roll with the punches, learn from negative feedback, and use it on your next project. It's literally that easy.
Coming here and stamping your feet like a 12 year old solved nothing, and I'm sure just gave them even more ammunition to blame developers for why most MMO's fail now.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It really depends on your expectations for release and post launch (some games have been released since 2000).
For example most mmos are boring quests that a person normally would rush to get to end game. So the game is about end game and combat, and other features such as community, crafting open world, mini games etc
other games might have trade offs that they put a lot of effort into questing in a themepark aka VO, but the open world is more static as a result, but other things might be good enough such as combat and raids.
The all in one package does not exist since games like WoW which have developed for over 10 years will not have VO for their questing and will always lack that. However, a game like WoW offers MMO players variety that they seem more pleased with than with other mmos.
So while trade offs may exist in mmos, development after release is just as crucial to develop the game to offer enough to the mmo genre.
A new MMO can only develop a good foundation and certain aspects which maybe WoW may not offer and become more exclusive/niche in that regard... but if the game is successful enough with a good enough development team afer launch then you can expect what WoW has in terms of variety but in a more modern/recent mmo.
The problem is that WoW is an old mmo that does better than new mmos simply due to more years in development and of course a savvy dev team.
I would say swtor had great potential but they had too many trade offs which then affected their development after release. 2 years in, and they do not have much content, which is a shame since it could offer a nice alternative to WoW.
We need an MMO that is good enough that it can be developed properly after launch. Then WoW comparisons into quality, variety and amounts of content wont be so exclusive to WoW.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
So let me lay it on you brother. You "hardcore" gamers (since you seem to be the spokesman for them), in general, are the biggest whining snobs, the most self righteous, flimsy group of people to ever have to cater to. The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet. SO guess what a lot of MMORPGs that are being developer realized - instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. And guess what; they are more than happy to spend their money on our product. And guess what, that makes us happy. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it. It makes me euphoric when someone can look at some trees, or ruins, or plants I modeled and textured and someone is playing in.
Developers have to bite their tongue, have to keep it quiet, and take the criticism no matter how stupid it is. But then there are times when someone has the chutzpah to come out and say "You know what, I don't know who's working for who, but I assume because they aren't producing MY EPIC GAME, they are clearly inexperienced, unskilled, and uncaring".
So, this may go against the forum code of conduct, and may cause me to be suspended, I don't care. But if that is your attitude, which right here it clearly is then I have two words for you.
Fuck. You.
-Chewy-
I like your post. No messing around and oh so true. There are a lot of people here who still haven't realized that their hate of everything on the market is the reason no one is making games for them. Why should they when there are people out there that are actually looking to enjoy a game instead of rip it apart on some forum.
Really...who would you rather make a game for someone that says thank you that was great here's my money or I CAN'T ONE SHOT THE RAID BOSS EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER MAKE ME A NEW GAME NOW!!!
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
They include lol, WoT and dota2 that's kind of cheating
Before those games got included as mmos I do remember a 100 million players world wide number getting thrown around. And 40 million subs being payed at one point. Wow was also just listed as 38% of the p2p market with 7 million subs...and p2p is a really small group of games now.
"Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it."
I do not know if you realize how utterly offensive and depressing it sounds to a developer. As a developer, hearing that the audience base, that we've spent 2-3 years of our lives developing, consider us uncaring, unskilled, or inexperienced. Do you even comprehend the kind of money that is involved in modern development, and why? Do you even understand what it takes to get an mmorpg out and hope, absolutely hope, that you'd make a return on that?
So let me give you our perspective on it: We're investing sometimes up to a hundred million dollars to create a product that would attract YOU, the gamer. An investment like that doesn't come lightly, most game companies do not have the capital to invest into something like that, and often times have to seek out investors. Investors demand a return on their investment; the higher the cost the higher the return. No sane game company will spend 100 million without needing to deliver a quality product, in return, or risk complete bankruptcy. And there is no way you're going to get a quality product by hiring people who aren't dedicated, who aren't experienced, and who aren't unskilled.
So let me lay it on you brother. You "hardcore" gamers (since you seem to be the spokesman for them), in general, are the biggest whining snobs, the most self righteous, flimsy group of people to ever have to cater to. The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet. SO guess what a lot of MMORPGs that are being developer realized - instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. And guess what; they are more than happy to spend their money on our product. And guess what, that makes us happy. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it. It makes me euphoric when someone can look at some trees, or ruins, or plants I modeled and textured and someone is playing in.
Developers have to bite their tongue, have to keep it quiet, and take the criticism no matter how stupid it is. But then there are times when someone has the chutzpah to come out and say "You know what, I don't know who's working for who, but I assume because they aren't producing MY EPIC GAME, they are clearly inexperienced, unskilled, and uncaring".
So, this may go against the forum code of conduct, and may cause me to be suspended, I don't care. But if that is your attitude, which right here it clearly is then I have two words for you.
Fuck. You.
-Chewy-
Awesome post.
My son is an indy developer and he and his buddy are about to release their first on Steam at the end of this month. Prior to going indy he worked at a local Vancouver, BC. company where he was lead on several games... I saw a lot of the feedback on forums and totally unreasonable crap he occasionally had to put-up with, so I can relate.
Luckily, in the grand scheme of things, the noisy, irritating, self-entitled and unappreciative trolls are a tiny minority of an otherwise grateful audience... they just seem to be louder, especially around here.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So let me lay it on you brother. You "hardcore" gamers (since you seem to be the spokesman for them), in general, are the biggest whining snobs, the most self righteous, flimsy group of people to ever have to cater to. The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet. SO guess what a lot of MMORPGs that are being developer realized - instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. And guess what; they are more than happy to spend their money on our product. And guess what, that makes us happy. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it. It makes me euphoric when someone can look at some trees, or ruins, or plants I modeled and textured and someone is playing in.
Developers have to bite their tongue, have to keep it quiet, and take the criticism no matter how stupid it is. But then there are times when someone has the chutzpah to come out and say "You know what, I don't know who's working for who, but I assume because they aren't producing MY EPIC GAME, they are clearly inexperienced, unskilled, and uncaring".
So, this may go against the forum code of conduct, and may cause me to be suspended, I don't care. But if that is your attitude, which right here it clearly is then I have two words for you.
Fuck. You.
-Chewy-
I like your post. No messing around and oh so true. There are a lot of people here who still haven't realized that their hate of everything on the market is the reason no one is making games for them. Why should they when there are people out there that are actually looking to enjoy a game instead of rip it apart on some forum.
Really...who would you rather make a game for someone that says thank you that was great here's my money or I CAN'T ONE SHOT THE RAID BOSS EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER MAKE ME A NEW GAME NOW!!!
I wouldn't call a whiner hardcore if what you wrote in caps ever came outta their mouth. That is more of an every kid get a trophy type of rant. Most "hardcore" gamers I know scream BECAUSE they CAN one shot mobs and there isn't enough challenge for them in the newer games. They are better than the puny little casual guy running around and they want to show it but can't anymore.
In some ways that's a good thing. But then there are times I miss the feeling I would get deep down in my stomach when I had just dinged level X on the previous mob but my health was very low on my current target and I knew if I died I'd loose 10% XP and that new level I just earned. So I hit FD and BAM... it fails... Naked corpse run and a level lower than I had just been.
To be honest, I never thought loosing a level was justified. The naked corpse runs could be punishment enough depending on what you had to go through to get your stuff back.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So let me lay it on you brother. You "hardcore" gamers (since you seem to be the spokesman for them), in general, are the biggest whining snobs, the most self righteous, flimsy group of people to ever have to cater to. The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet. SO guess what a lot of MMORPGs that are being developer realized - instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. And guess what; they are more than happy to spend their money on our product. And guess what, that makes us happy. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it. It makes me euphoric when someone can look at some trees, or ruins, or plants I modeled and textured and someone is playing in.
Developers have to bite their tongue, have to keep it quiet, and take the criticism no matter how stupid it is. But then there are times when someone has the chutzpah to come out and say "You know what, I don't know who's working for who, but I assume because they aren't producing MY EPIC GAME, they are clearly inexperienced, unskilled, and uncaring".
So, this may go against the forum code of conduct, and may cause me to be suspended, I don't care. But if that is your attitude, which right here it clearly is then I have two words for you.
Fuck. You.
-Chewy-
I like your post. No messing around and oh so true. There are a lot of people here who still haven't realized that their hate of everything on the market is the reason no one is making games for them. Why should they when there are people out there that are actually looking to enjoy a game instead of rip it apart on some forum.
Really...who would you rather make a game for someone that says thank you that was great here's my money or I CAN'T ONE SHOT THE RAID BOSS EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER MAKE ME A NEW GAME NOW!!!
I wouldn't call a whiner hardcore if what you wrote in caps ever came outta their mouth. That is more of an every kid get a trophy type of rant. Most "hardcore" gamers I know scream BECAUSE they CAN one shot mobs and there isn't enough challenge for them in the newer games. They are better than the puny little casual guy running around and they want to show it but can't anymore.
In some ways that's a good thing. But then there are times I miss the feeling I would get deep down in my stomach when I had just dinged level X on the previous mob but my health was very low on my current target and I knew if I died I'd loose 10% XP and that new level I just earned. So I hit FD and BAM... it fails... Naked corpse run and a level lower than I had just been.
To be honest, I never thought loosing a level was justified. The naked corpse runs could be punishment enough depending on what you had to go through to get your stuff back.
Honestly the part in caps was just an excuse to put "make me a new game now". I was kind of laughing at/with the post I quoted and what it meant and didn't really " nail" that point
So let me lay it on you brother. You "hardcore" gamers (since you seem to be the spokesman for them), in general, are the biggest whining snobs, the most self righteous, flimsy group of people to ever have to cater to. The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet. SO guess what a lot of MMORPGs that are being developer realized - instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. And guess what; they are more than happy to spend their money on our product. And guess what, that makes us happy. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it. It makes me euphoric when someone can look at some trees, or ruins, or plants I modeled and textured and someone is playing in.
Developers have to bite their tongue, have to keep it quiet, and take the criticism no matter how stupid it is. But then there are times when someone has the chutzpah to come out and say "You know what, I don't know who's working for who, but I assume because they aren't producing MY EPIC GAME, they are clearly inexperienced, unskilled, and uncaring".
So, this may go against the forum code of conduct, and may cause me to be suspended, I don't care. But if that is your attitude, which right here it clearly is then I have two words for you.
Fuck. You.
-Chewy-
I like your post. No messing around and oh so true. There are a lot of people here who still haven't realized that their hate of everything on the market is the reason no one is making games for them. Why should they when there are people out there that are actually looking to enjoy a game instead of rip it apart on some forum.
Really...who would you rather make a game for someone that says thank you that was great here's my money or I CAN'T ONE SHOT THE RAID BOSS EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER MAKE ME A NEW GAME NOW!!!
The type of post Chewy brought is the exact problem since he demonstrates the average developer and the issues this genre is facing today.The lack of understanding toward "advanced" players like I who've spent far greater time to evolve though gaming to know what is truly great out there and what not..Most producers involved in this industry choose to rather spend their time on schools/colleges/jobs/GF's/kids/travel and so on, naturally they will be lacking to develop a great product that will attract someone like I.
Developers should be 5 years ahead when making a game that will launch 3 years from now. And this statement: "The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet" is also flawed since if you paid attention on my thread I aknowledged that I'm playing my first MMORPG from back in 2001 today. It's 2d graphics, but hey...it allows me to do far more things all these recent MMO's allow me today. It has so much more depth, immersion and complexity behind, you could tell those creating it truly were developing it from their own vision, not from some spreadseets, specific market or analysis...what works best. I'm the opposite, I've showed exceptional love toward gaming and that love is why I'm standing here today with this experience...especially in the first 15 years or so. I can't afford to do that now because I prefer to spend my time at one complex game at a time and I play the best of whats available for me. I like to play a single game for years if possible and this genre is the best to deliver that.
And this statement ("Instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it"). This just proves finally that you aknowledge the fact you are targeting the market thats easiest to spend $ on and is content with your product. Hey, I too played almost every single Arcade, NES, SNES, GameBoy, PSX, DreamCast game that was available and repeatedly on and on and on in my early ages. Yes, I loved those games with passion back then when I was 6-15 year old and I also spent enormous $ in the process.
Reality is 2+ decades ago was the golden age of gaming where video gaming in general weas something new for most. Now things are different. There is far larger number of experienced veterans like I who've grown up gaming and our standard has increased all thanks to that experience. Today we use our time to play the best and most advanced games on the market. You are free to continue developing games for the "average, younger, newer audience in the industry" and be happy they're enjoying it. You are welcome to make Tetris VII and Pong IX today with better graphics that is online with some cash shop attached around it.
Thx to my exceptional background in gaming, the sheer and vast amount of games I've been fortunate to go through as I was aging today I can enjoy games that are simply the best and saving far more $ in the process. I make far less mistakes with purchases and have far less regrets. You know how it goes, once you see the best, you don't settle for the rest. What I would be worried is if your Tetris VII was still one of the best options for me after all those 20-30 years since video gaming began.
Chewy, forums like these is where you have the opportunity to use as a feedback and be very fortunate they exist. If you are truly developing games you should also take them seriously. One thing is certain though my life, whatever I've focused my time, been involved with I'm truly one of the best. It's how I've been ranked amongst the top in online ladders and national tournaments in some of the most widely played, popular games since the early ages.
I'm confident if one day I choose to be a lead design of any game I would develop it the way I would want myself to be seen playing it. It won't be for the $ and I won't listen/follow to any single being that would tell me the game won't work if I KNOW it will for me. I would use forums like these to take opinions, tips/hints and not come here to insult simply because my product is inferious and fails to make a mark in the genre.
Games are more than just games. They change peoples lives. They turn individuals in something else, something greater. They can be example one to follow and the best of all is those who create them are nothing less but GODs. So, yes technology is available and been for a while, the tools are there. The right mind, the right person can make something out of nothing. Yes, $ helps a lot in developing a game, but certainly not the ultimate factor for a great game and we've already seen through the decades how small companies rise and how big ones fall.
If one day my options are indeed dry and see myself in a world with monkeys where I can either choose to swing from one tree to another with them and make some noises or create/invent something new for me and them to enjoy, well I'll gladly pick the 2nd option.
I've said it above that happiness does not depend on knowledge and if someone is happy with even staring at a wall well good for him. If you are happy with what you are doing good for you.
have you ever made a game, worked for a development studio or had any training what-so-ever in the game industry that didn't involve sitting on your couch playing games one handed ?
And ironicly after my epic quest from 2001 with MMORPG's I'm back to my first...Anyways, these are some of the top reasons people think why we are in this state.
#1 Saturated market, too many options, spread players across, bigger competition, etc, etc..
#2 Too many programs/ways today to cheat/exploit/bot/multibox/spam etc in a game...
#3 Was recently reported that there are around 24.5 mil MMORPG subscribers in the WORLD.
#4 Private sector. Devlopers can't develop what they want, depend on publishers, etc..Too many things to spend # on from marketing, CEO's, and so forth.
#5 Becoming more expensive to build em, programmers, graphic artists, writers, voice actors and so forth.
#6 Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers.
#7 Bad directions, choices, ideas by the lead designers.
#8 Too many players out there seem to enjoy playing cheaply, repetitive games over MMORPG's like RTS, FPS, MOBAs, card games and so forth...
#9 Forums like these keep exposing the flaws and trashing games that are out within first month, alerting and notifying others why the game won't last.
I can go forth and forth and forth on the MANY reasons many would think why MMORPG's are at the current stage today, but all those reasons above are innacurate. There is one simple reason why today's MMORPG's aren't something truly better and greater than MMORPG's that were launched decades today and that is...
Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it.
So for the last time, I'm tired of seeing all these threads, with so many reasons/assumptions why we have the quality of MMORPG's today after all these years. If people are happy enough with their lives as they are to not create that epic MMORPG then good for them. If people have the $ and are not as desperate to create it, again good for them. And if us the gamers can find ways to entertain ourselves in these dire times for this genre good for us.
I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.
The only way this genre will go forward is us the gamers are resilient and cautious with our $. It's our only way we can vote and when people don't pay for MMORPG's it doesn't mean there is no MARKET out there. It simply means there has been no publisher/developer out there capable to create/capture a market.
real problem is us, the player(s)...we are the cause for turning mmo into what we get today
#16 IDOC hunting (In danger of collapsing houses) - Check
#17 Rare clothes/Dress yourself the way you want - Check
#18 Some of the best action packed, skill + gear driven PvP - Check
#19 Obtaining rare scrolls to become Elder/Legendary at some professions/skills - Check
#20 Unique builds that no one can copy off you - Check
I'll stop at 20 for now cuz I'm about to hit the bed. Good night....Saddest thing of all was Ultima Online started to develop in 1997. That's the biggest irony of all. If only Richard Garriot would've known that his 1997 MMORPG would be far superiour than anything else that was going to come in the next 2 decades....If he only known!
Comments
That's all good and well, but it's your job, deal with it. If you don't like negative feedback, get out of the service industry. Coming here and telling gamers to screw off because of inferior product design fixes nothing and just gives them more fuel for their fire against developers. Blaming the developers for everything is wrong, blaming the consumers for everything is also wrong. Both parties are at fault, and developers aren't infallible. Learn to roll with the punches, learn from negative feedback, and use it on your next project. It's literally that easy.
Coming here and stamping your feet like a 12 year old solved nothing, and I'm sure just gave them even more ammunition to blame developers for why most MMO's fail now.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
24 Million, maybe 25 million. But one day, yes 400 million. Years from now.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It's because everybody forget that MMO were designed for :
IRL losers
Unemployed people
Loners
Baddies
You pay them 15$ a month to forget it.
Then they tried to make MMO for casual/normal players. And it failed.
It really depends on your expectations for release and post launch (some games have been released since 2000).
For example most mmos are boring quests that a person normally would rush to get to end game. So the game is about end game and combat, and other features such as community, crafting open world, mini games etc
other games might have trade offs that they put a lot of effort into questing in a themepark aka VO, but the open world is more static as a result, but other things might be good enough such as combat and raids.
The all in one package does not exist since games like WoW which have developed for over 10 years will not have VO for their questing and will always lack that. However, a game like WoW offers MMO players variety that they seem more pleased with than with other mmos.
So while trade offs may exist in mmos, development after release is just as crucial to develop the game to offer enough to the mmo genre.
A new MMO can only develop a good foundation and certain aspects which maybe WoW may not offer and become more exclusive/niche in that regard... but if the game is successful enough with a good enough development team afer launch then you can expect what WoW has in terms of variety but in a more modern/recent mmo.
The problem is that WoW is an old mmo that does better than new mmos simply due to more years in development and of course a savvy dev team.
I would say swtor had great potential but they had too many trade offs which then affected their development after release. 2 years in, and they do not have much content, which is a shame since it could offer a nice alternative to WoW.
We need an MMO that is good enough that it can be developed properly after launch. Then WoW comparisons into quality, variety and amounts of content wont be so exclusive to WoW.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I like your post. No messing around and oh so true. There are a lot of people here who still haven't realized that their hate of everything on the market is the reason no one is making games for them. Why should they when there are people out there that are actually looking to enjoy a game instead of rip it apart on some forum.
Really...who would you rather make a game for someone that says thank you that was great here's my money or I CAN'T ONE SHOT THE RAID BOSS EVERYTHING IS RUINED FOREVER MAKE ME A NEW GAME NOW!!!
Actually the Captain is correct: http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/the-global-mmo-market-sizing-and-seizing-opportunities/
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They include lol, WoT and dota2 that's kind of cheating
Before those games got included as mmos I do remember a 100 million players world wide number getting thrown around. And 40 million subs being payed at one point. Wow was also just listed as 38% of the p2p market with 7 million subs...and p2p is a really small group of games now.
Awesome post.
My son is an indy developer and he and his buddy are about to release their first on Steam at the end of this month. Prior to going indy he worked at a local Vancouver, BC. company where he was lead on several games... I saw a lot of the feedback on forums and totally unreasonable crap he occasionally had to put-up with, so I can relate.
Luckily, in the grand scheme of things, the noisy, irritating, self-entitled and unappreciative trolls are a tiny minority of an otherwise grateful audience... they just seem to be louder, especially around here.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
OP said there is only ONE simple reason and then goes on to give us 10?
I am well confused.
Might want to reread...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/
Which one to believe
This one says 30 million subscribers (not free players) worldwide. Interesting no?
edit - either way it is much more than 24 million
I wouldn't call a whiner hardcore if what you wrote in caps ever came outta their mouth. That is more of an every kid get a trophy type of rant. Most "hardcore" gamers I know scream BECAUSE they CAN one shot mobs and there isn't enough challenge for them in the newer games. They are better than the puny little casual guy running around and they want to show it but can't anymore.
In some ways that's a good thing. But then there are times I miss the feeling I would get deep down in my stomach when I had just dinged level X on the previous mob but my health was very low on my current target and I knew if I died I'd loose 10% XP and that new level I just earned. So I hit FD and BAM... it fails... Naked corpse run and a level lower than I had just been.
To be honest, I never thought loosing a level was justified. The naked corpse runs could be punishment enough depending on what you had to go through to get your stuff back.
Both? Since they're counting different games under "MMO" as someone else pointed out above.
LOL, all by itself, had around 67 million players per month playing it back in January.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Honestly the part in caps was just an excuse to put "make me a new game now". I was kind of laughing at/with the post I quoted and what it meant and didn't really " nail" that point
My lungs exploded out of my chest laughing x'D
^.^'
The type of post Chewy brought is the exact problem since he demonstrates the average developer and the issues this genre is facing today.The lack of understanding toward "advanced" players like I who've spent far greater time to evolve though gaming to know what is truly great out there and what not..Most producers involved in this industry choose to rather spend their time on schools/colleges/jobs/GF's/kids/travel and so on, naturally they will be lacking to develop a great product that will attract someone like I.
Developers should be 5 years ahead when making a game that will launch 3 years from now. And this statement: "The sheer utter demands you place - and the sheer utter expectation is impossible standard to ever meet" is also flawed since if you paid attention on my thread I aknowledged that I'm playing my first MMORPG from back in 2001 today. It's 2d graphics, but hey...it allows me to do far more things all these recent MMO's allow me today. It has so much more depth, immersion and complexity behind, you could tell those creating it truly were developing it from their own vision, not from some spreadseets, specific market or analysis...what works best. I'm the opposite, I've showed exceptional love toward gaming and that love is why I'm standing here today with this experience...especially in the first 15 years or so. I can't afford to do that now because I prefer to spend my time at one complex game at a time and I play the best of whats available for me. I like to play a single game for years if possible and this genre is the best to deliver that.
And this statement ("Instead of catering to this small group of hardcore mmorpg players in US, let's target the average gamer all around the world. It makes me happy when someone is playing my game and enjoying it"). This just proves finally that you aknowledge the fact you are targeting the market thats easiest to spend $ on and is content with your product. Hey, I too played almost every single Arcade, NES, SNES, GameBoy, PSX, DreamCast game that was available and repeatedly on and on and on in my early ages. Yes, I loved those games with passion back then when I was 6-15 year old and I also spent enormous $ in the process.
Reality is 2+ decades ago was the golden age of gaming where video gaming in general weas something new for most. Now things are different. There is far larger number of experienced veterans like I who've grown up gaming and our standard has increased all thanks to that experience. Today we use our time to play the best and most advanced games on the market. You are free to continue developing games for the "average, younger, newer audience in the industry" and be happy they're enjoying it. You are welcome to make Tetris VII and Pong IX today with better graphics that is online with some cash shop attached around it.
Thx to my exceptional background in gaming, the sheer and vast amount of games I've been fortunate to go through as I was aging today I can enjoy games that are simply the best and saving far more $ in the process. I make far less mistakes with purchases and have far less regrets. You know how it goes, once you see the best, you don't settle for the rest. What I would be worried is if your Tetris VII was still one of the best options for me after all those 20-30 years since video gaming began.
Chewy, forums like these is where you have the opportunity to use as a feedback and be very fortunate they exist. If you are truly developing games you should also take them seriously. One thing is certain though my life, whatever I've focused my time, been involved with I'm truly one of the best. It's how I've been ranked amongst the top in online ladders and national tournaments in some of the most widely played, popular games since the early ages.
I'm confident if one day I choose to be a lead design of any game I would develop it the way I would want myself to be seen playing it. It won't be for the $ and I won't listen/follow to any single being that would tell me the game won't work if I KNOW it will for me. I would use forums like these to take opinions, tips/hints and not come here to insult simply because my product is inferious and fails to make a mark in the genre.
Games are more than just games. They change peoples lives. They turn individuals in something else, something greater. They can be example one to follow and the best of all is those who create them are nothing less but GODs. So, yes technology is available and been for a while, the tools are there. The right mind, the right person can make something out of nothing. Yes, $ helps a lot in developing a game, but certainly not the ultimate factor for a great game and we've already seen through the decades how small companies rise and how big ones fall.
If one day my options are indeed dry and see myself in a world with monkeys where I can either choose to swing from one tree to another with them and make some noises or create/invent something new for me and them to enjoy, well I'll gladly pick the 2nd option.
I've said it above that happiness does not depend on knowledge and if someone is happy with even staring at a wall well good for him. If you are happy with what you are doing good for you.
real problem is us, the player(s)...we are the cause for turning mmo into what we get today
+1
Ultima Online:
#1 Open world - Check
#2 Player driven economy - Check
#3 PvP with full loot - Check
#4 Fully customizable houses players can build - Check
#5 Faction system with leaders - Check
#6 Stealing/Fishing/Pirating/ - Check
#7 Collecting rares - Check
#8 Runs on a junk PC flawlessly - Check
#9 Weather changes - Check
#10 One of the best music/ambiences ever - Check
#11 Bounty system - Check
#12 Chaos/Order - Check
#13 Karma/Fame - Check
#14 Achivements/Titles to earn - Check
#15 Player run vendors, no AH - Check
#16 IDOC hunting (In danger of collapsing houses) - Check
#17 Rare clothes/Dress yourself the way you want - Check
#18 Some of the best action packed, skill + gear driven PvP - Check
#19 Obtaining rare scrolls to become Elder/Legendary at some professions/skills - Check
#20 Unique builds that no one can copy off you - Check
I'll stop at 20 for now cuz I'm about to hit the bed. Good night....Saddest thing of all was Ultima Online started to develop in 1997. That's the biggest irony of all. If only Richard Garriot would've known that his 1997 MMORPG would be far superiour than anything else that was going to come in the next 2 decades....If he only known!