Originally posted by GeezerGamer When I watched a video here at MMORPG.COM hosting a panel at a gaming conference (I'll be damened if I can recall the link either) Anyway, the panel hosted the development team from Wildstar. And the 1st question that was asked was "What are you doing to be different?"Wildstar's answer? "We're making combat more fun" I knew right then and there, it was the wrong answer. You cannot make something that players will spend hours and hours and hours (This can go one but I'll stop the "and hours" here. "more fun" It gets old. No matter how exciting it initially is, it gets old. Combat needs to be fluid and intuitive, it should not be cumbersome, but the focus in these latest MMOs with a total focus on combat is completely out of touch. It will get boring. There needs to be other things in the game to hold players to it. MMOs need options. They need METAs.But now, all they are is combat. If you aren't fighting something, you really aren't progressing in any significant way. There's no depth.This brings me to my question to the title of this thread. How many game are there to choose from that are like that or don't have bad business models?I don't think there are as many games to choose from as the OP does.
Agreed. Even if MMOs have "other activities", more than likely they are only included to make combat more efficient.
You mean like in WoW where you now choose your crafting skills based on your role and spec and the specific stat bonuses they provide?Like Enhancement Shaman learning Engineering for no other reason than the Synapse Spring AGI buff. What's the point of Engineering then?
Pretty much, yes
Going back to EQ1, what happened to smithing making shaped cookie cutters? Absolutely no effect on combat, but sure was fun to pass out these cookies to other players
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Going back to EQ1, what happened to smithing making shaped cookie cutters? Absolutely no effect on combat, but sure was fun to pass out these cookies to other players
Few players care, and devs decides to put effort where it matters instead?
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
In a way, it is derogatory towards us older gamers, but isn't that how each generation tends to view the other? At a young we knew better than the older generation because we were 'hip' and knew the technology of our times better than they. As we got older we, as our elders did, knew that wisdom can often lead to a smarter path but complain of such lacking respect in the younger generation.
Though I loved the EQ era of gaming, I actually like the evolution gaming is taking. Can't like everything out there, how can I with the myriad of games coming out and what little time I have to play them all. I'd love to try them all but i have to pick and choose, and sometimes I might not stay in a game as long as I did back in EQ but it's mainly to try a new one.
Maybe I'll find one to 'pitch my tent' in and never leave, but who knows?!
Corrupt capitalism in the gamedev industry is what I would blame more. While the same feeling for our ye olde MMOs will really not be attained, a lot of gamedevs recently have been just cranking out boreware games, reskinned versions of older games with no actual real content. Games with fast dev periods are usually like that; cranked out just to earn money in the first few "trial" beta periods, then fwoosh into thin air after getting "founders" money.
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
In a way, it is derogatory towards us older gamers, but isn't that how each generation tends to view the other? At a young we knew better than the older generation because we were 'hip' and knew the technology of our times better than they. As we got older we, as our elders did, knew that wisdom can often lead to a smarter path but complain of such lacking respect in the younger generation.
Though I loved the EQ era of gaming, I actually like the evolution gaming is taking. Can't like everything out there, how can I with the myriad of games coming out and what little time I have to play them all. I'd love to try them all but i have to pick and choose, and sometimes I might not stay in a game as long as I did back in EQ but it's mainly to try a new one.
Maybe I'll find one to 'pitch my tent' in and never leave, but who knows?!
I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.
Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
I don't know, I've been playing computer games as long as there's been computer games and I sure get tired of reading about how great everything was and how crappy it all is now. It really does seem like just a bunch of old people pouting that kids took over the world....same as always.
There will always be that group of people that got stuck in the past. The present isn't bad or wrong, it just didn't stay back there with you.
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
I don't know, I've been playing computer games as long as there's been computer games and I sure get tired of reading about how great everything was and how crappy it all is now. It really does seem like just a bunch of old people pouting that kids took over the world....same as always.
There will always be that group of people that got stuck in the past. The present isn't bad or wrong, it just didn't stay back there with you.
Ah but I think you misunderstand, games in general are getting better and better and I play many new games, it's just mmorpgs that are generally getting "worse". Basically mmorpgs are moving away from rpg and virtual world, and that is what I want from a mmorpg.. from other games I want other things.
Originally posted by GeezerGamer When I watched a video here at MMORPG.COM hosting a panel at a gaming conference (I'll be damened if I can recall the link either) Anyway, the panel hosted the development team from Wildstar. And the 1st question that was asked was "What are you doing to be different?"
Wildstar's answer? "We're making combat more fun" I knew right then and there, it was the wrong answer. You cannot make something that players will spend hours and hours and hours (This can go one but I'll stop the "and hours" here. "more fun" It gets old. No matter how exciting it initially is, it gets old. Combat needs to be fluid and intuitive, it should not be cumbersome, but the focus in these latest MMOs with a total focus on combat is completely out of touch. It will get boring. There needs to be other things in the game to hold players to it. MMOs need options. They need METAs.
But now, all they are is combat. If you aren't fighting something, you really aren't progressing in any significant way. There's no depth.
This brings me to my question to the title of this thread. How many game are there to choose from that are like that or don't have bad business models?
I don't think there are as many games to choose from as the OP does.
Agreed. Even if MMOs have "other activities", more than likely they are only included to make combat more efficient.
You mean like in WoW where you now choose your crafting skills based on your role and spec and the specific stat bonuses they provide?
Like Enhancement Shaman learning Engineering for no other reason than the Synapse Spring AGI buff. What's the point of Engineering then?
Pretty much, yes
Going back to EQ1, what happened to smithing making shaped cookie cutters? Absolutely no effect on combat, but sure was fun to pass out these cookies to other players
In my opinion, the issue has been the business model.
As I said earlier, we need our layerd games back, Well, I do anyway. I want my meta-games. The options to do other things, I still remember back in Earlier Anarchy or SWG and even earlier WoW (although to a much lesser degree, it still had some). Especially SWG. The juggling of my 3 or 4 "games" within that game.
I don't think that developers are ignorant of this, but I do think their hands are tied. This thing about those "metas" is that they typically branched out of.....or branched into.....the game's economy. This becomes totally undermined with RMT gold conversions.
And I really don't buy the canned response "RMT has always existed" I know it always has. But there was a difference in scale. In the games we are remembering, the level of RMT was much less. The honest and even boarder line-honest players wouldn't do it. Many guilds had policies on RMT and you were out if you got caught. Players involved in RMT ran the risk of losing their accounts to the ELUA and/or hackers and by and large the average gamer did not feel the risk was worth it. But now.....Who doesn't drop an extra 10-20 bucks on their games every now and again when they have it to spare?
I don't know about nostalgia and such, as i haven't started playing mmo's until 2007 or so.
And ever since that day i did, im jumping from game to game, because i never find what im looking for, in any of them.
I want to go on a journey, with others. A journey that consists of more than just reaching the maximum level, and grinding gear for unbalanced pvp and the next content patch. I don't feel like im role playing at all, in any of them. Logging in every day just to do you daily routine seems wrong for me.
I probably will never see any mmo"rpg" that would fit my taste, but hope dies last.
I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.
Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.
Great post. You completely nailed it. I think this even more than that other one should be copy pasted and used in the many threads on this topic that crop up on this site. The one thing I'd add is that while games were always a business the business part has taken over the motivation of devs so much where sometimes even if I do like a new game I still often get pissed about the business model/monetization methods. This is especially true with MMORPGs (looking at any game which expects you to sub but still has a cash shop).
I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.
Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."
Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
I don't know, I've been playing computer games as long as there's been computer games and I sure get tired of reading about how great everything was and how crappy it all is now. It really does seem like just a bunch of old people pouting that kids took over the world....same as always.
There will always be that group of people that got stuck in the past. The present isn't bad or wrong, it just didn't stay back there with you.
There is the issue of the past, and younger people not liking the same things as older people . . . there is also the issue of the types of people who now consider themselves gamers. In the "old days", it was mostly geeks. Today, gaming is overwhelmingly populated by "mainstream" people. If mainstream people had been deciding the fate of those old school games, I suspect those games would have sucked then too.
I don't know about nostalgia and such, as i haven't started playing mmo's until 2007 or so.
And ever since that day i did, im jumping from game to game, because i never find what im looking for, in any of them.
I want to go on a journey, with others. A journey that consists of more than just reaching the maximum level, and grinding gear for unbalanced pvp and the next content patch. I don't feel like im role playing at all, in any of them. Logging in every day just to do you daily routine seems wrong for me.
I probably will never see any mmo"rpg" that would fit my taste, but hope dies last.
I definitely don't believe the fundamental secret to an amazing MMO that most of us felt privy to in our early days of MMO gaming lies in nostalgia or in some kind of generational divide . . . it lies in something more basic to being human, and whatever that was . . . I miss it. I believe that what we touched upon was the very heart of the gaming experience, and that we were just ahead of our time.
Now I know a lot of people who are not into gaming at all. The most they can do is some sort of cheesy game on their iPhone. But I am just not sure if this is because they inherently dislike gaming, or because practical and cultural prejudices get in their way. I know people who would feel like they were wasting time if they were gaming, or feel that gaming is some kind of weakness, like doing drugs. They don't mind watching movies, or television, but gaming somehow scares them. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps they just don't like gaming . . . but there seems to be some kind of fear there, some resistance, and the older the person, the more likely that resistance is going to be there.
To me, this resistance is on a spectrum. Hardcore MMO gamers have the least resistance, your grand parents have the most, and everyone else lies somewhere in between. The more resistance you have, the more superficial you want your games to be. Ultimately, if your resistance is very strong, you don't want to game at all. If you just have a little resistance, you can handle an iPhone app, or maybe playing solitaire on your PC. A little less and you can handle short single player consule games. Less, you can maybe handle some online FPS games. A little less . . . well, you get the idea.
The role of age only plays a part insofar as younger people are, on the whole, less likely to have resistance to gaming. Nevertheless, it is statistical and some young people are going to have far less resistance than other young people. Overall, young people today are far less resistant to gaming than young people were a decade ago. Nevertheless, the average young gamer today is still far more resistant to gaming than the most hardcore gamers (MMO gamers) of the early 2000s were. There are more young gamers today who are deeply comfortable with gaming than there was a decade ago, but they are overwhelmed by the masses of young gamers who are only semi-comfortable.
In "the old days", on the other hand, playing a MMO felt a bit like investing in cryptocurrency today . . . so radical, so beyond what most people expected was normal human activity, that very very few people did it. It took a very daring person to even go there. Even young people, for the most part, wouldn't touch it. That meant that the game had to be designed for a very intense audience. However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming.
This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.
Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.
I can agree to this with one distinction though. I don't see the gaming past as being better. It had the 'potential' to being amazing as you point out, but the reality was that it really wasn't like those table top RPG's. EQ barely had any story, except what you made of it, and that was limited to quirky instances that we 'dressed up' with some flair.
And now, because of how mainstream games are now, I doubt we'll see the direction we envisioned those Mmo would go because they have shifted away from it already.
You never know, though. A game may come to amaze us old farts with depth and beauty, maybe with the Occulus Rift or something similar.
I'd rather enjoy the present and what it has to offer than talking about 'Old times' and how they were better, etc. When in truth, we often voluntarily neglect to mention the negatives of experience just to have a point in reminiscing.
I don't know about nostalgia and such, as i haven't started playing mmo's until 2007 or so.
And ever since that day i did, im jumping from game to game, because i never find what im looking for, in any of them.
I want to go on a journey, with others. A journey that consists of more than just reaching the maximum level, and grinding gear for unbalanced pvp and the next content patch. I don't feel like im role playing at all, in any of them. Logging in every day just to do you daily routine seems wrong for me.
I probably will never see any mmo"rpg" that would fit my taste, but hope dies last.
I definitely don't believe the fundamental secret to an amazing MMO that most of us felt privy to in our early days of MMO gaming lies in nostalgia or in some kind of generational divide . . . it lies in something more basic to being human, and whatever that was . . . I miss it. I believe that what we touched upon was the very heart of the gaming experience, and that we were just ahead of our time.
Now I know a lot of people who are not into gaming at all. The most they can do is some sort of cheesy game on their iPhone. But I am just not sure if this is because they inherently dislike gaming, or because practical and cultural prejudices get in their way. I know people who would feel like they were wasting time if they were gaming, or feel that gaming is some kind of weakness, like doing drugs. They don't mind watching movies, or television, but gaming somehow scares them. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps they just don't like gaming . . . but there seems to be some kind of fear there, some resistance, and the older the person, the more likely that resistance is going to be there.
To me, this resistance is on a spectrum. Hardcore MMO gamers have the least resistance, your grand parents have the most, and everyone else lies somewhere in between. The more resistance you have, the more superficial you want your games to be. Ultimately, if your resistance is very strong, you don't want to game at all. If you just have a little resistance, you can handle an iPhone app, or maybe playing solitaire on your PC. A little less and you can handle short single player consule games. Less, you can maybe handle some online FPS games. A little less . . . well, you get the idea.
The role of age only plays a part insofar as younger people are, on the whole, less likely to have resistance to gaming. Nevertheless, it is statistical and some young people are going to have far less resistance than other young people. Overall, young people today are far less resistant to gaming than young people were a decade ago. Nevertheless, the average young gamer today is still far more resistant to gaming than the most hardcore gamers (MMO gamers) of the early 2000s were. There are more young gamers today who are deeply comfortable with gaming than there was a decade ago, but they are overwhelmed by the masses of young gamers who are only semi-comfortable.
In "the old days", on the other hand, playing a MMO felt a bit like investing in cryptocurrency today . . . so radical, so beyond what most people expected was normal human activity, that very very few people did it. It took a very daring person to even go there. Even young people, for the most part, wouldn't touch it. That meant that the game had to be designed for a very intense audience. However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming.
This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
I guess i know what you mean, but todays trend is just plain dumb.
Though i understand that they want to reach a wider audience with their product.
There is Blade and Soul for example.
At first it seemed to be something new, something refreshing. But after playing it i had to realyze. It's just another generic mmo that can't offer anything else than good graphics, and huge boobs. Though they are trying to force the action combat on it, it's closer to play cs:s with aimbot.
At the other hand, people tends to leave these games within 1-2 months till only a few remains, and at last the game dies.
Then a new title arise, people move on, just to repeat what they have done before.
I just don't seem to understand, because though they aim for the casual gamers, they make most of the games super grindy (gear/exp) which is not exactly what i would imagine a casual player wants.
They should just name these games mmo, because it doesn't have much to do with role playing.
It's just as dumb as calling these trendy fps games mmo, meanwhile 99% of them are lobby based.
The only difference between these and for example counter strike is that, they have a global chat.
I just hope eventually there will be a game, that offers something closer to what an rpg is, with decent graphics.
And by decent i don't mean extrasuperubercool stuff. Because whatever people are saying how graphics doesn't matter is bs, since if that would be true, everyone who says would play text based games.
i could imagine a game with the combat system of vindictus, but with the story of lord of the rings. And by this, i mean the movies (sorry i haven't read the books) Fighting your way through middle earth in order to destroy the ring with your companions. Im prety sure it could be made into an mmo some way. Ofcourse this is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
If its nostalgia then I've managed it way ahead of schedule. I started MMOs with EQ2 therefore I guess I'm the newer generation. I saw potential in EQ2 for the virtual world - running a shop from your very own house, crafting, long, but meaningful heritage quests, dungeons had other groups in them and could level on elite mobs designed for a group in general zones and the npcs gestured at me to come over if they wanted help (no one tried to smack me over the head with an exclamation mark yet somehow i worked it out). In short, it had variation. Was it perfect? Hell no, but it had potential. It seemed like a world. To me they gradually gutted it starting with a combat overhaul.
WoW to me seems like someone went crazy with the paint box then stuck punctuation to every moving part left over. It didn't feel real. Crafting was basic, everything seemed locked away in an instance, somehow the entire population live in a city with a grand total of 20 beds and all of them in one inn..... But i wont deny it was still fun, for a while until I burnt out on the solo questing.
Nevermind, lots of new games to try once I hit WOW burnout. WAR offered something with the PVP lakes that was different and the leveling in PVP but the population died; the pve: however was rather familiar. Rfit - fun (good dungeon, public quests etc) - seem to have seen this solo leveling somewhere before... LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO etc Every game its spot the not so hidden solo quest hub routine. Do devs have some issues with you avoiding their quests or something that requires them to so often nerf pvp as a means to level or refuse to provide group content outside scripted instances or link talent points to completing certain quests (I'm looking at you ESO)? Why does variation feel like its disappearing in the face of the all conquering exclamation mark?
The problem is that they have made the same game over and over again since so that now every game has to have a quest hub - in case we get lost without the exclamation mark trail of breadcrumbs? We have multiple versions of the same damn game and if you don't like THAT game or you feel wait a second, haven't i done this before? Well tough. So I'm not convinced there's a nostalgia problem amongst MMO players, I think there's a burnout problem because of too much repetition.
Originally posted by Jjix However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming. This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
i could imagine a game with the combat system of vindictus, but with the story of lord of the rings. And by this, i mean the movies (sorry i haven't read the books) Fighting your way through middle earth in order to destroy the ring with your companions. Im prety sure it could be made into an mmo some way. Ofcourse this is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with the "devolution to market to casual gamers" analysis.
I have no problem with combat like Vindictis or Tera; I'm cool with any kind of combat as long as it isn't shooting with guns or old fashioned turn-based like pokemon or final fantasy. But I am so SO TIRED of Tolkien-esque worlds and stories. T_T A journey - sure, that could be cool. I like an adventure. I like seeing a variety of new places and cultures. On the other hand I also like a domestic situation where I own a farm an am upgrading it and breeding plants and animals, but whatever. But I'm utterly not interested in fighting my way through an evil-tainted world trying to kill me, all for a magical foozle. Jeeze the only thing worse would be being in some kind of historical war game that didn't even have magic. I cannot comprehend why all gamers everywhere aren't sick to death of Tolkienesque worlds yet. -_-;
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Originally posted by Jjix However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming. This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
i could imagine a game with the combat system of vindictus, but with the story of lord of the rings. And by this, i mean the movies (sorry i haven't read the books) Fighting your way through middle earth in order to destroy the ring with your companions. Im prety sure it could be made into an mmo some way. Ofcourse this is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with the "devolution to market to casual gamers" analysis.
I have no problem with combat like Vindictis or Tera; I'm cool with any kind of combat as long as it isn't shooting with guns or old fashioned turn-based like pokemon or final fantasy. But I am so SO TIRED of Tolkien-esque worlds and stories. T_T A journey - sure, that could be cool. I like an adventure. I like seeing a variety of new places and cultures. On the other hand I also like a domestic situation where I own a farm an am upgrading it and breeding plants and animals, but whatever. But I'm utterly not interested in fighting my way through an evil-tainted world trying to kill me, all for a magical foozle. Jeeze the only thing worse would be being in some kind of historical war game that didn't even have magic. I cannot comprehend why all gamers everywhere aren't sick to death of Tolkienesque worlds yet. -_-;
I am with you on this.
Regarding combat its not that I have some ethical objection to it its just that its over done. There are so many things we can try with this technology that its insane.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by kjempff I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.
This is spot on, even in general gaming for me. I imagined one (or three) path(s) to "improvement" and the games decided on totally new, unimagined paths and threw me for a loop. That loop threw me away from gaming.
That path being easier, more streamlined, more efficient, and much less involving games. I wonder when "puzzle games" will incorporate combat of some kind. (Maybe they have already? I am not a puzzle gamer.) It seems to be the activity that "the masses" desire most.
"Give me voice overs!" - because I am too lazy to read or imagine it myself. "Give me less downtime!" - because I do not have time to waste. "Give me quest markers!" - because I can not figure out where to go. "Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD. "Give me cut scenes!" - because I want an interactive movie experience. "Make ME the hero!" - because anything less is drab.
Yea, way back when, I never saw this coming.
Is there room for games like this? Of course there is! I do not want to see these kinds of games disappear because many players enjoy them. However, please try to bring back the choice and especially the RPG in RPG gaming.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Jjix However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming. This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
i could imagine a game with the combat system of vindictus, but with the story of lord of the rings. And by this, i mean the movies (sorry i haven't read the books) Fighting your way through middle earth in order to destroy the ring with your companions. Im prety sure it could be made into an mmo some way. Ofcourse this is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I agree with the "devolution to market to casual gamers" analysis.
I have no problem with combat like Vindictis or Tera; I'm cool with any kind of combat as long as it isn't shooting with guns or old fashioned turn-based like pokemon or final fantasy. But I am so SO TIRED of Tolkien-esque worlds and stories. T_T A journey - sure, that could be cool. I like an adventure. I like seeing a variety of new places and cultures. On the other hand I also like a domestic situation where I own a farm an am upgrading it and breeding plants and animals, but whatever. But I'm utterly not interested in fighting my way through an evil-tainted world trying to kill me, all for a magical foozle. Jeeze the only thing worse would be being in some kind of historical war game that didn't even have magic. I cannot comprehend why all gamers everywhere aren't sick to death of Tolkienesque worlds yet. -_-;
I don't say that LotR must be the theme, nor the world has to be similiar, heck, it doesn't even have to be fantasy.
It just seemed to be the perfect example to explain what i think a journey consists of.
Since it's one of the most widely known stories.
Im kind of sick of todays "50 Shades of Grindfest" mmo games.
There is nothing in them, just sex, badly balanced pvp, and mobs with the AI of a 2 y/o.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
"Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD.
I don't know how others feel about this. But i personally prefer action combat over tab 1234.
Not just because it requires more "skill" but because a lot more interactive than the tab system.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky "Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD.
I don't know how others feel about this. But i personally prefer action combat over tab 1234.Not just because it requires more "skill" but because a lot more interactive than the tab system.
I just don"t get this. How is "Aim 1234" or "Aim Right Click/Left Click" any different or more complex/deeper than "Tab 1234?"
Even in Tab targeting games, you can NOT hit a target that is behind you (one you are not facing) or off at too much of an angle to either side or even too far away.
The difference that I like about tab target is that I can use my numpad for skills/abilities/spells and tap "Tab" (right next to my movement keys) to acquire a new target. No switching back and forth between mouse and keyboard like many action combat games need. Most of the time, I do not even need my mouse, which is my preference.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky "Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD.
I don't know how others feel about this. But i personally prefer action combat over tab 1234.
Not just because it requires more "skill" but because a lot more interactive than the tab system.
I just don"t get this. How is "Aim 1234" or "Aim Right Click/Left Click" any different or more complex/deeper than "Tab 1234?"
Even in Tab targeting games, you can NOT hit a target that is behind you (one you are not facing) or off at too much of an angle to either side or even too far away.
The difference that I like about tab target is that I can use my numpad for skills/abilities/spells and tap "Tab" (right next to my movement keys) to acquire a new target. No switching back and forth between mouse and keyboard like many action combat games need. Most of the time, I do not even need my mouse, which is my preference.
Well it's prety easy to see what makes it more complex, different, deeper. Actually you answered it yourself.
You not just have to face your opponent and must be in range as you said but you have to land that skill as well.
You have to predict your opponents movements in order to do so. Which not just makes more difficult to play, but i suppose its more realistic. And to be honest i never heard of anyone switching between keyboard and mouse in any action game, because that tends to lead to certain death.
Actually i don't think that's required in any action game, especially as these games have so few skills.
I do believe those players who use only one interface are at disatvantage against those who can effectively use both simultaneously.
Though, all this comes down to personal preference, abilities.
And i don't mean to offend anyone with the word "abilities", but the ablility to use two interface at the same time, is something i acquired through playing fps games.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky "Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD.
I don't know how others feel about this. But i personally prefer action combat over tab 1234.
Not just because it requires more "skill" but because a lot more interactive than the tab system.
I just don"t get this. How is "Aim 1234" or "Aim Right Click/Left Click" any different or more complex/deeper than "Tab 1234?"
Even in Tab targeting games, you can NOT hit a target that is behind you (one you are not facing) or off at too much of an angle to either side or even too far away.
The difference that I like about tab target is that I can use my numpad for skills/abilities/spells and tap "Tab" (right next to my movement keys) to acquire a new target. No switching back and forth between mouse and keyboard like many action combat games need. Most of the time, I do not even need my mouse, which is my preference.
Well it's prety easy to see what makes it more complex, different, deeper. Actually you answered it yourself.
You not just have to face your opponent and must be in range as you said but you have to land that skill as well.
You have to predict your opponents movements in order to do so. Which not just makes more difficult to play, but i suppose its more realistic. And to be honest i never heard of anyone switching between keyboard and mouse in any action game, because that tends to lead to certain death.
Actually i don't think that's required in any action game, especially as these games have so few skills.
I do believe those players who use only one interface are at disatvantage against those who can effectively use both simultaneously.
Though, all this comes down to personal preference, abilities.
And i don't mean to offend anyone with the word "abilities", but the ablility to use two interface at the same time, is something i acquired through playing fps games.
Yes that is right for a FPS game, but to me, in a RPG it doesn't. While I play a role, I shouldn't need to have ninja reflexes to play a ninja. That's why I prefer the character stats determine if I hit, block or dodge.
Now we are getting more MMORPG with FPS like combat and it's really messing things up, it might be more involving but I also tire of it much faster. When I want to play action combat I play planetside 2 and warframe.
Yes that is right for a FPS game, but to me, in a RPG it doesn't. While I play a role, I shouldn't need to have ninja reflexes to play a ninja. That's why I prefer the character stats determine if I hit, block or dodge.
Now we are getting more MMORPG with FPS like combat and it's really messing things up, it might be more involving but I also tire of it much faster. When I want to play action combat I play planetside 2 and warframe.
For my mmorpg I'd much prefer tab target.
That's fine, everyone should play what they prefer to.
And i can see this becoming a trend lately as well, though, most of the games are still having tab targeting system.
And i don't think this trend will last long.
As there is a lot of player like you, who dislikes action combat.
Then there are those, who just simply can't adapt to it.
So i don't think the future holds too many games for players like me, but rather for your type.
Comments
Going back to EQ1, what happened to smithing making shaped cookie cutters? Absolutely no effect on combat, but sure was fun to pass out these cookies to other players
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Few players care, and devs decides to put effort where it matters instead?
This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
/signed
In a way, it is derogatory towards us older gamers, but isn't that how each generation tends to view the other? At a young we knew better than the older generation because we were 'hip' and knew the technology of our times better than they. As we got older we, as our elders did, knew that wisdom can often lead to a smarter path but complain of such lacking respect in the younger generation.
Though I loved the EQ era of gaming, I actually like the evolution gaming is taking. Can't like everything out there, how can I with the myriad of games coming out and what little time I have to play them all. I'd love to try them all but i have to pick and choose, and sometimes I might not stay in a game as long as I did back in EQ but it's mainly to try a new one.
Maybe I'll find one to 'pitch my tent' in and never leave, but who knows?!
I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.
Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I don't know, I've been playing computer games as long as there's been computer games and I sure get tired of reading about how great everything was and how crappy it all is now. It really does seem like just a bunch of old people pouting that kids took over the world....same as always.
There will always be that group of people that got stuck in the past. The present isn't bad or wrong, it just didn't stay back there with you.
Ah but I think you misunderstand, games in general are getting better and better and I play many new games, it's just mmorpgs that are generally getting "worse". Basically mmorpgs are moving away from rpg and virtual world, and that is what I want from a mmorpg.. from other games I want other things.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
In my opinion, the issue has been the business model.
As I said earlier, we need our layerd games back, Well, I do anyway. I want my meta-games. The options to do other things, I still remember back in Earlier Anarchy or SWG and even earlier WoW (although to a much lesser degree, it still had some). Especially SWG. The juggling of my 3 or 4 "games" within that game.
I don't think that developers are ignorant of this, but I do think their hands are tied. This thing about those "metas" is that they typically branched out of.....or branched into.....the game's economy. This becomes totally undermined with RMT gold conversions.
And I really don't buy the canned response "RMT has always existed" I know it always has. But there was a difference in scale. In the games we are remembering, the level of RMT was much less. The honest and even boarder line-honest players wouldn't do it. Many guilds had policies on RMT and you were out if you got caught. Players involved in RMT ran the risk of losing their accounts to the ELUA and/or hackers and by and large the average gamer did not feel the risk was worth it. But now.....Who doesn't drop an extra 10-20 bucks on their games every now and again when they have it to spare?
I don't know about nostalgia and such, as i haven't started playing mmo's until 2007 or so.
And ever since that day i did, im jumping from game to game, because i never find what im looking for, in any of them.
I want to go on a journey, with others. A journey that consists of more than just reaching the maximum level, and grinding gear for unbalanced pvp and the next content patch. I don't feel like im role playing at all, in any of them. Logging in every day just to do you daily routine seems wrong for me.
I probably will never see any mmo"rpg" that would fit my taste, but hope dies last.
Great post. You completely nailed it. I think this even more than that other one should be copy pasted and used in the many threads on this topic that crop up on this site. The one thing I'd add is that while games were always a business the business part has taken over the motivation of devs so much where sometimes even if I do like a new game I still often get pissed about the business model/monetization methods. This is especially true with MMORPGs (looking at any game which expects you to sub but still has a cash shop).
There is the issue of the past, and younger people not liking the same things as older people . . . there is also the issue of the types of people who now consider themselves gamers. In the "old days", it was mostly geeks. Today, gaming is overwhelmingly populated by "mainstream" people. If mainstream people had been deciding the fate of those old school games, I suspect those games would have sucked then too.
I definitely don't believe the fundamental secret to an amazing MMO that most of us felt privy to in our early days of MMO gaming lies in nostalgia or in some kind of generational divide . . . it lies in something more basic to being human, and whatever that was . . . I miss it. I believe that what we touched upon was the very heart of the gaming experience, and that we were just ahead of our time.
Now I know a lot of people who are not into gaming at all. The most they can do is some sort of cheesy game on their iPhone. But I am just not sure if this is because they inherently dislike gaming, or because practical and cultural prejudices get in their way. I know people who would feel like they were wasting time if they were gaming, or feel that gaming is some kind of weakness, like doing drugs. They don't mind watching movies, or television, but gaming somehow scares them. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps they just don't like gaming . . . but there seems to be some kind of fear there, some resistance, and the older the person, the more likely that resistance is going to be there.
To me, this resistance is on a spectrum. Hardcore MMO gamers have the least resistance, your grand parents have the most, and everyone else lies somewhere in between. The more resistance you have, the more superficial you want your games to be. Ultimately, if your resistance is very strong, you don't want to game at all. If you just have a little resistance, you can handle an iPhone app, or maybe playing solitaire on your PC. A little less and you can handle short single player consule games. Less, you can maybe handle some online FPS games. A little less . . . well, you get the idea.
The role of age only plays a part insofar as younger people are, on the whole, less likely to have resistance to gaming. Nevertheless, it is statistical and some young people are going to have far less resistance than other young people. Overall, young people today are far less resistant to gaming than young people were a decade ago. Nevertheless, the average young gamer today is still far more resistant to gaming than the most hardcore gamers (MMO gamers) of the early 2000s were. There are more young gamers today who are deeply comfortable with gaming than there was a decade ago, but they are overwhelmed by the masses of young gamers who are only semi-comfortable.
In "the old days", on the other hand, playing a MMO felt a bit like investing in cryptocurrency today . . . so radical, so beyond what most people expected was normal human activity, that very very few people did it. It took a very daring person to even go there. Even young people, for the most part, wouldn't touch it. That meant that the game had to be designed for a very intense audience. However, today, you have a ton of gamers who are comfortable enough to play online games, but not really comfortable enough to play the MMOs of old. Seeing this, gaming companies toned down the MMO experience in order to dip into that wide pool of gamers who are comfortable with casual online gaming.
This has created the illusion that what we have today in MMOs is an evolution, but the reality is that it is a devolution, where the games largely moved down the spectrum to resemble casual online games in order to meet the massive influx of people who have become comfortable with casual online gaming.
I can agree to this with one distinction though. I don't see the gaming past as being better. It had the 'potential' to being amazing as you point out, but the reality was that it really wasn't like those table top RPG's. EQ barely had any story, except what you made of it, and that was limited to quirky instances that we 'dressed up' with some flair.
And now, because of how mainstream games are now, I doubt we'll see the direction we envisioned those Mmo would go because they have shifted away from it already.
You never know, though. A game may come to amaze us old farts with depth and beauty, maybe with the Occulus Rift or something similar.
I'd rather enjoy the present and what it has to offer than talking about 'Old times' and how they were better, etc. When in truth, we often voluntarily neglect to mention the negatives of experience just to have a point in reminiscing.
I guess i know what you mean, but todays trend is just plain dumb.
Though i understand that they want to reach a wider audience with their product.
There is Blade and Soul for example.
At first it seemed to be something new, something refreshing. But after playing it i had to realyze. It's just another generic mmo that can't offer anything else than good graphics, and huge boobs. Though they are trying to force the action combat on it, it's closer to play cs:s with aimbot.
At the other hand, people tends to leave these games within 1-2 months till only a few remains, and at last the game dies.
Then a new title arise, people move on, just to repeat what they have done before.
I just don't seem to understand, because though they aim for the casual gamers, they make most of the games super grindy (gear/exp) which is not exactly what i would imagine a casual player wants.
They should just name these games mmo, because it doesn't have much to do with role playing.
It's just as dumb as calling these trendy fps games mmo, meanwhile 99% of them are lobby based.
The only difference between these and for example counter strike is that, they have a global chat.
I just hope eventually there will be a game, that offers something closer to what an rpg is, with decent graphics.
And by decent i don't mean extrasuperubercool stuff. Because whatever people are saying how graphics doesn't matter is bs, since if that would be true, everyone who says would play text based games.
i could imagine a game with the combat system of vindictus, but with the story of lord of the rings. And by this, i mean the movies (sorry i haven't read the books) Fighting your way through middle earth in order to destroy the ring with your companions. Im prety sure it could be made into an mmo some way. Ofcourse this is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
If its nostalgia then I've managed it way ahead of schedule. I started MMOs with EQ2 therefore I guess I'm the newer generation. I saw potential in EQ2 for the virtual world - running a shop from your very own house, crafting, long, but meaningful heritage quests, dungeons had other groups in them and could level on elite mobs designed for a group in general zones and the npcs gestured at me to come over if they wanted help (no one tried to smack me over the head with an exclamation mark yet somehow i worked it out). In short, it had variation. Was it perfect? Hell no, but it had potential. It seemed like a world. To me they gradually gutted it starting with a combat overhaul.
WoW to me seems like someone went crazy with the paint box then stuck punctuation to every moving part left over. It didn't feel real. Crafting was basic, everything seemed locked away in an instance, somehow the entire population live in a city with a grand total of 20 beds and all of them in one inn..... But i wont deny it was still fun, for a while until I burnt out on the solo questing.
Nevermind, lots of new games to try once I hit WOW burnout. WAR offered something with the PVP lakes that was different and the leveling in PVP but the population died; the pve: however was rather familiar. Rfit - fun (good dungeon, public quests etc) - seem to have seen this solo leveling somewhere before... LOTRO, SWTOR, ESO etc Every game its spot the not so hidden solo quest hub routine. Do devs have some issues with you avoiding their quests or something that requires them to so often nerf pvp as a means to level or refuse to provide group content outside scripted instances or link talent points to completing certain quests (I'm looking at you ESO)? Why does variation feel like its disappearing in the face of the all conquering exclamation mark?
The problem is that they have made the same game over and over again since so that now every game has to have a quest hub - in case we get lost without the exclamation mark trail of breadcrumbs? We have multiple versions of the same damn game and if you don't like THAT game or you feel wait a second, haven't i done this before? Well tough. So I'm not convinced there's a nostalgia problem amongst MMO players, I think there's a burnout problem because of too much repetition.
I have no problem with combat like Vindictis or Tera; I'm cool with any kind of combat as long as it isn't shooting with guns or old fashioned turn-based like pokemon or final fantasy. But I am so SO TIRED of Tolkien-esque worlds and stories. T_T A journey - sure, that could be cool. I like an adventure. I like seeing a variety of new places and cultures. On the other hand I also like a domestic situation where I own a farm an am upgrading it and breeding plants and animals, but whatever. But I'm utterly not interested in fighting my way through an evil-tainted world trying to kill me, all for a magical foozle. Jeeze the only thing worse would be being in some kind of historical war game that didn't even have magic. I cannot comprehend why all gamers everywhere aren't sick to death of Tolkienesque worlds yet. -_-;
I am with you on this.
Regarding combat its not that I have some ethical objection to it its just that its over done. There are so many things we can try with this technology that its insane.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That path being easier, more streamlined, more efficient, and much less involving games. I wonder when "puzzle games" will incorporate combat of some kind. (Maybe they have already? I am not a puzzle gamer.) It seems to be the activity that "the masses" desire most.
"Give me voice overs!" - because I am too lazy to read or imagine it myself.
"Give me less downtime!" - because I do not have time to waste.
"Give me quest markers!" - because I can not figure out where to go.
"Give me action combat!" - because *I* want to be the character in the game, just like my soldier in CoD.
"Give me cut scenes!" - because I want an interactive movie experience.
"Make ME the hero!" - because anything less is drab.
Yea, way back when, I never saw this coming.
Is there room for games like this? Of course there is! I do not want to see these kinds of games disappear because many players enjoy them. However, please try to bring back the choice and especially the RPG in RPG gaming.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I don't say that LotR must be the theme, nor the world has to be similiar, heck, it doesn't even have to be fantasy.
It just seemed to be the perfect example to explain what i think a journey consists of.
Since it's one of the most widely known stories.
Im kind of sick of todays "50 Shades of Grindfest" mmo games.
There is nothing in them, just sex, badly balanced pvp, and mobs with the AI of a 2 y/o.
I don't know how others feel about this. But i personally prefer action combat over tab 1234.
Not just because it requires more "skill" but because a lot more interactive than the tab system.
Even in Tab targeting games, you can NOT hit a target that is behind you (one you are not facing) or off at too much of an angle to either side or even too far away.
The difference that I like about tab target is that I can use my numpad for skills/abilities/spells and tap "Tab" (right next to my movement keys) to acquire a new target. No switching back and forth between mouse and keyboard like many action combat games need. Most of the time, I do not even need my mouse, which is my preference.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Well it's prety easy to see what makes it more complex, different, deeper. Actually you answered it yourself.
You not just have to face your opponent and must be in range as you said but you have to land that skill as well.
You have to predict your opponents movements in order to do so. Which not just makes more difficult to play, but i suppose its more realistic. And to be honest i never heard of anyone switching between keyboard and mouse in any action game, because that tends to lead to certain death.
Actually i don't think that's required in any action game, especially as these games have so few skills.
I do believe those players who use only one interface are at disatvantage against those who can effectively use both simultaneously.
Though, all this comes down to personal preference, abilities.
And i don't mean to offend anyone with the word "abilities", but the ablility to use two interface at the same time, is something i acquired through playing fps games.
Yes that is right for a FPS game, but to me, in a RPG it doesn't. While I play a role, I shouldn't need to have ninja reflexes to play a ninja. That's why I prefer the character stats determine if I hit, block or dodge.
Now we are getting more MMORPG with FPS like combat and it's really messing things up, it might be more involving but I also tire of it much faster. When I want to play action combat I play planetside 2 and warframe.
For my mmorpg I'd much prefer tab target.
That's fine, everyone should play what they prefer to.
And i can see this becoming a trend lately as well, though, most of the games are still having tab targeting system.
And i don't think this trend will last long.
As there is a lot of player like you, who dislikes action combat.
Then there are those, who just simply can't adapt to it.
So i don't think the future holds too many games for players like me, but rather for your type.