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Titan's cancellation and the rest of the MMORPG Genre
jacktors
Member UncommonPosts: 180
The bottom line is MMORPG's are too much of a risk. How many games of this genre have truly made and maintained a huge profit lately. As a regular lurker on MMORPG.com, all I ever read about is this MMORPG and that one, being closed down or cancelled due to lack of money and/or support. As an avid MMORPG gamer, I watched myself and millions of others go through the same MMORPG Cycle over and over.
1. New MMORPG is announced.... Let the excitement begin. Many of us start to speculate on the new games features. We hope for a " True Sandbox" style MMO. We do not want instances, a smooth transition from area to area. We want a detailed and intelligent crafting system. We want a ton of content, without having to do the " kill 10 rat" quests over and over. Lets not forget the intuitive combat system, open world PVP, Classless system, so we can play " our own way" Now add all of this up, and throw in a very unique and beautifully rendered world, but not a " WOW Clone" So the game must have its own style and flare. (Anything else I missed)?
2. The new MMO company starts to release some information about the new game. Let the controversies begin. The forums start to light up with those people who like the games features, and other half who can't stand them, calling the game a " WOW Clone" or " Niche Game".
3. Now the fun begins. The game developers start reading the forums. (And they do, as most game developers are gamers too). And the promises start to surface. Our game will have this, and our system will do this. We will have unlimited end game and horizontal game content, so you will never get bored with our new game. We see that you do not like this feature, ( because a vocal percentage of you voiced it in the forums), so we are scrapping this system, and going with this one, based on the " customer feedback".
4. So now we see the game that was first announced, is a shadow of what was originally. The developers have " listened" to their "majority of fans" and now we have this new and "adjusted" game for you. But obviously they will have to rush this into the game now, since they are going over budget, and are moving past the games scheduled deadlines. These new game adjustments are added in a rushed format, which creates many unforeseen bugs. Now we have a different game that was originally promised to us.
5. It is now time for Alpha and Beta testing. So the company wants to get some of their investment back before the game begins, so here come the founder packages. Some of these companies should be arrested for the amount of money they charge for some of these packages.
6. Beta testing begins and there are mixed reviews from the beta testers. There are tons of glitches, gold spammers have already started up, and the forums light up once again. The trolls come out of their caves to cause havoc, and this creates more confusion and indecision from the game developers.
7. The beta ends, the game is released with a subscription fee, as promised. And doing so, the game developers promise to give its subscribers regularly scheduled added content. Some of the gamers fly through the game into max level within days of release. They start to bitch about the lack of content, story and endgame. People start dropping their subscriptions. Numbers start to get posted on the gaming forums. People start complaining about dead servers. People start leaving the game, thinking it is going to fail.
8. A chain reaction happens. As people leave the game, others follow because they see everyone else leaving. The game developers start losing money. Employees start getting fired. The game announces it will go Free to Play. The game drags along as a cash grab, or it dies.
This is what we have been seeing over and over lately. It is extremely difficult for MMORPG game developers to create a game that pleases the majority of our fan base. There are too many polarizing factors that make up the development of a MMORPG. I have only seen one MMORPG sustain itself for a long time, and make tons of money dong so. That game is World of Warcraft. I truly believe that Blizzard does not think that they can create another MMORPG with lasting success. It is proven over and over how true this statement is. They probably realized this, watching so many other MMOPRPG's start up, market their game, and die or just linger in Free to Play limbo.
So Blizzard takes it on the chin with Titan. But in the long run, they will save the company a lot of revenue. Blizzard can just as easily create a Warcraft 4, or Diablo 4. Or they can develop a completely new IP. Whatever game they create, it will be purchased by millions of gamers. And they can avoid all of the headaches associated with MMORPG's.
Comments
Is OK, with the exodus of AAA dev houses from the MMORPG space we actually have a better chance at something new and different.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
*slow clap of approval*
It's why I'm done with MMOs when/if my current one (Wildstar) dies. I'm already tempted to take a break from it and play regular games I downloaded from Steam to see if I can find that spark again that made games fun. Either that or leave games behind me until my Wildstar subscription ends and do other things for fun.
I'm concerned for the genre. While it is nice that some smaller companies will be able to take risks and give us some damn freedom. They are not going to be able to put in content at a reasonable rate. I'm seeing it now with Darkfall. Great game, that I've played for a year plus, that offers a lot of freedom and treats people like adults. But the devs are having a tough time adding more content. Part of their problem may be that they are not doing the carrot on a stick gear chase, so they are having a bit of a tough time coming up with something to keep people working towards.
I'm afraid massive open world MMOs with lots of content that actually take some time are going away for good. Brainless games like D3 that require a tenth of the dev time that WoW or EQ required. I'm thinking rather than bitching at the Darkfall UW or Archeage devs I should be commending them on making large seamless worlds, as they may be coming to an end.
"We hope for a " True Sandbox" style MMO. We do not want instances, a smooth transition from area to area. We want a detailed and intelligent crafting system. We want a ton of content, without having to do the " kill 10 rat" quests over and over. Lets not forget the intuitive combat system, open world PVP, Classless system, so we can play " our own way" Now add all of this up, and throw in a very unique and beautifully rendered world, but not a " WOW Clone" So the game must have its own style and flare. "
There are games that sorta fit those requirements (like Mortal Online) but they only cater to a very, very niche audience.
So it could be that, while there is a vocal group of us who want to see a game like that, the majority are still hooked on WoW or themeparky games, so devs have no real incentive to pour money into trying to be innovative. Its like punk music, y'know? Bands can have that raw, gritty punk sound that fills up punk clubs, but they won't get played on the radio to a mainstream audience. So if they wanna make real money, they put out radio-friendly mainstream music, and sell a crapton more records.
Somehow agree. In fact, in my view, after the recent releases of Wildstar, TESO and Archeage the only game yet to be released with the potential to become "massive" is EQNext. My bet is that we will not see "big names" for a while.
I strongly disagree with the first paragraph though - "we" do not want sandbox games, or at least it does not look like that's what we want. The most successful MMO is still WOW. The "most recommended" is lately FFXIV. With the last update, SWTOR came back strong. LotRO has 27 or so servers. It's pretty clear what the players want, theme parks with massive content. Playing LotRO at the moment, I'm just amazed about how much content it has - the initial 1-50 experience with overlapping questing zones would be rescaled and sold like a full game with 2 expansions by today's standards. It's truly sad that companies focus recently on twitch combat and this kind of mechanics, with shallow character development and gameplay - makes sense though, developing content is costly.
Blizzard gave up on Titan because that isn't where the money is. The risk vrs reward is too high when you have to send 100s of millions on an mmo.
MOBAs are where the money is right now so it's where they've shifted their focus. Low development costs ( compared to mmos) low maintenance costs and huge profits. Why wouldn't they give up on mmos.
Having blizzard and other big AAA developers leave mmos behind isn't a bad thing if they are what you really want. Sure you'll have to give up cutting edge graphics and all that fluff but the people left wont be building games to make huge profits either. All those people will be in other genres.
The MMO genre will be better off. As Bill said in his post today, MMOs have been/will be transitioning back to the indie developers where we will start to see real innovation occur in smaller niche titles. The genre grew too large to support itself with the crazy budgets some of these games have had trying to capture the fluke that was WoW's popularity. Right place, right time, right formula and a whole lot of luck; that's the only thing WoW had going for it and we probably will never see something of that scale again in the MMO world, at least what we call MMOs today.
As much as I dislike the current Blizzard, I don't think they are stupid. They saw the writing on the wall and decided to shut down their next big budget MMO, probably since it was too similar to other things that were out and they also realized that they would never grab the number of people they wanted or bring in the kinds of profits they are looking for now-days with a real MMO. Bliz will move in the direction of facebook games more and more over the next few years; ultra casual light weight cash shop/buy-in games... that's where the money's at and that's all they are after now.
MMO's won't take off again like they did with WoW until some new technology comes along and an opening is left for someone to take advantage of like Bliz did with WoW in 2004, when the internet was just starting to become mainstream. There are a few decent looking games on the horizon and I think we will be seeing a lot of sandboxes over the next 4 or 5 years as things are swinging back around that direction but once everyone's trip down nostalgia lane is over we might start seeing some pretty interesting things, especially with the tech that is currently being worked on and will be available within the next 10 or so years.
Well, I think it has to do with variety. Raids, bosses, even trivial quest content, create the illusion of a different challenge. People hate kill 10 rats quests, but combining kill 10 rats with gather 10 wolf tails and touch 6 stones and talk to X and then do a solo instance which opens a 3-man instance, with some fixed great reward at the end seem to satisfy us more. And about the rewards - the games usually offer more "development lines" for your character when coming to PvE - reputation, tokens, epic quest lines with special rewards etc.
I like PvP but i get bored after a while. I seem to end up doing the same thing over and over again. There's also not much story and lore attached to it, and in terms of rewards it feels like a job. But that's only me.
I fully agree with this, and I'd extend it to all lobby games, not only MOBA's. Lobby games, if well designed and not pay to win, seem to be able to fit most of today player's needs. Leaving the MOBA's aside, I'm looking at games like Hearthstone which seem to please both whales (people who just buy 200 packs to get every card they want) and normal players which spend little to no money. Also, Wargaming's World of Tanks is in the same boat. You can spend a lot and get "there" quickly, or spend a little and have a "normal" progressing experience or spend nothing at all and get there with lots of work - all these modes are possible, you are not content restricted or anything, you will have the sense of progression no matter which path you take.
Lobby games - get in, do a quick match, see the XP bar moving, get some quick rewards - sense of accomplishment without the "dead" time - travel etc. I definitely see them as "the future" for the world we live in now.
I think "meaningful PvE" will be the next big leap the genre takes after EQN comes out and shows what you can accomplish with unscripted AI and variable environments/behaviors. PvE really doesn't mean anything in any game at the moment. If you kill something it comes back a few seconds or minutes later so the next guy in line can have his shot and the entire thing loses any meaning at all which causes people to lose interest pretty quickly.
I could go on about this for hours and would love to bring up some specific examples from games currently being worked on but that would open up another can of worms as I recognize a number of people in this thread that have very different opinions from myself on the matter of said game and its systems being the next step in the evolution of the genre.
I feel it's mostly about the rewards - i'm thinking about PvE raids designed with no gear drops and no worthwhile improvements to your character (currency, reputation, achievement rewards etc), I bet not many will raid those a few times per week. The sense of progression has to be there, and PvE can be designed to offer more options for that (quest/reputation rewards, small group rewards, large group rewards, lucky drop rewards).
PvE is usually rewarding, and if it's not, many people leave. In fact, when vertical progression stops, most people leave the game or make an alt - the meaning can be lost in PvE too, but it's much easier to find some other meaning, making an alt or trying another game. Most people play to be entertained, not to look for a second job.
The PvP with most meaning has to have territory and resource control, which has to have important consequences but not so big consequences that the "losing faction" is left with no chances to come back. This is hard to design - I remember Aion in its prime days, when most servers were massively controlled by just one faction. Even WoW's Wintergrasp was redesigned to provide balance between factions, because easy wins are not entertaining, losing every time due to low numbers is even worse, and people are hard to please.
For me, it will not mean too much, since they never even show any of the game yet, it was all just a hype, maybe Blizzard had learnt their mistake not to overhype the game that is not even in development yet,
WoW is still pretty much a healthy game, which can last for at least another 10 years, so just stick to that and they will be fine
So What Now?
Profit? Most of them.
Huge profit? Don't know, and even with the numbers, that would still be pretty subjective.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
May be they will now make another Diablo .. or better yet, make a diablo-type game with another IP.
Good points, OP.
I have a theory about the cause of these effects: Lack of focus in MMO design.
Too many MMOs see the "sum total" of players playing MMOs and grab for as many as they can get. They continually fail to see that gamer population as a whole as actually being quite fragmented.
So when 1 feature is implemented, those not wanting that specific feature are disappointed. When every other feature is announced, there are more "posts of outrage."
MMOs when they started out, started out with an idea. The players that liked those ideas bought into the games and enjoyed them. Those who did not sought other games more to their liking. The numbers were nowhere near what they are today, but those smaller numbers equated to more happy gamers.
You can not truly "please" all of the factions:
PvP/PvE; Sandbox/Themepark; Fantasy/Sci-Fi/Real Life/Zombie Apocalypse; and so many more.
So, many players feel unsatisfied. Contrary to popular belief, compromise does NOT please everyone. All sides will still be grumbling about what they did not achieve.
The only reason publishers do NOT focus their MMOs is because the numbers are not to their liking. Before even going to the drawing board, too many MMOs have no vision other than "MILLIONS of players!" Then they start their data-mining and formulaic program writing.
Just think if companies actually focused their MMO on a specific target audience and made an effort to please that smaller group. Think of the great game designs and "innovations" that may come about from a very focused design team.
No, instead we get 100's of MMOs trying to please everyone and not doing a very good job. A lot of players play them, for sure, but not many have a "passion" for the MMOs they play anymore.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Diablo 3 focuses on nothing but hack-n-slash and loot drops ... even trading is taken out.
WoT focuses on instanced pvp battles, so does MOBAs.
Hearthstone focuses on a card game.
And the numbers are HUGE for these games (and some are even classified as MMOs by many sites).
So may be MMOs can learn from these games (apparently Blizz did) to focus on just one gameplay type and forget about the world, and have both pvp and pve. The point is ... the numbers are there, just not for classical MMOs.
The MMO industry has gotten out of hand and goes too far to please regular gamers and console gamers, always forgetting their root base.
MMO's used to be made like RPG's....they were an off-shoot of the RPG, allowing for massive amounts of people to enjoy the same experience together.
When WoW came out with it's dynamic combat (at that time) it brought in gamers who were not RPG enthusiasts but rather twitch action gamers. Since then, every MMO dev thinks that combat should be action based and twitch based rather than thought based.
Even before that though (i think) there was DAOC which brought in the PVP crowd and polluted the MMO scene so much so now that EVERY dev thinks they can sell a game with it's PVP features (none have succeeded).
The MMO industry's most loyal gamers are RPG players. Always will be. You need not look any further than the success that Everquest garnered with rpg'esque combat and no pvp mind you. The game is still around and being played to this day....kinda telling. Same with FFXI. still kickin.
But Devs can't get enough...they'd rather sell 1 million copies at launch than retain 300k-500k very LOYAL subs for 10 years. They wanna get in and out...
There is hope though...games like Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity and Dead State (as well as many others) that came out recently or are coming out in the near future will make Devs aware of the fact that RPG's still rule the roost on PC and MMO's should stay true to the RPG genre...or they won't and we'll continue to get crap MMO's where their platforming parts of the game are more fun than the RPG element....cough...Wildstar...cough...GW2
In my opinion mmo developer's simply need to stop trying to please everyone all of the time.
Make more specialist games with smaller budgets and aiming for a smaller player base.
Did anyone think that just maybe this has nothing to do with the future prospects of AAA MMOs, or the rise in popularity of MOBAs or any of that crap?
Did anyone think that Blizzard cancelled Titan for exactly the reason they gave? That it wasnt good.
Because Im pretty sure we all know that Blizzard is not afraid to cancel a game if they feel it does not meet their standards.
Warcraft: Lord of the Clans, StarCraft Ghost, and the original Diablo 3 were all cancelled well into development.
Heck, the only reason WoW exists is because they were making a sci-fi RTS, thought it sucked so they cancelled it. Then when they were deciding what to do next Blizzard thought about giving MMOs a try.
So, Blizzard is not like other developers and only cancel games based on cost projections or market constraints. Blizzard will cancel games if they feel they just arent good enough and have done it numerous times.
So, no one thought of that? Yeah, didnt think so. Everyone is too busy trying to be an armchair analyst.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Pot meet kettle.
Your analogy is flawed... just because a game fails or gets cancelled doesn't mean the industry as a whole is falling apart. Look at any business and you will see a large number of failures amongst the successes. Did the auto industry crumble? Aerospace industry crumble? Restaurant industry crumble? The list is endless... companies shut down daily and new ones start up. Is there a risk? Sure there is. There is a risk to everything... no risk, no reward.
Your evidence is purely based off of websites such as this one... a gossip column at best and certainly not insider information. The sky isn't falling... hasn't been. So long as there are computers, there will be games. You may not be playing them, but someone is. Think about it, if everyone in the world sent you a dollar tomorrow, you'd have 7 billion+ dollars overnight. Imagine if it were only a penny... or if only half the world sent you a penny... or merely a half a million people did. They're making money... lots of it. It's why they continue to exist and will continue to exist. It's why games made in 2004 are still running... some of which were F2P since inception... they earn money whether you consider them trivial or not.
Stop analyzing the industry and just play... you talk about not wanting a game to be a job but you certainly spend a great deal of time worrying about its' solvency. Apparently you want it to be a job because you keep turning it into one. Have to check the stock analysts report, the server populations, quarterly sales reports, et al before you can consider a game worthy of playing. What an utter waste of time.