A sandbox MMO should have the tools to make content by players. SWG for example attempted that, first with storytelling props, later on (almost endstage ) with the chronicles system. Both were crudely executed and storytelling maybe more for roleplaying purpose. But then it was a shitty engine to begin with. But imo a similar robust system should be there for players in a sandbox MMO.
Not just to create stories or quests, but also to create new crafted items, so gear etc. Kind of how modding fits into Minecraft, but then without the need to learn coding. It is a crazy ambitious idea I know, but I couldn't think of any other way to call a MMO a sandbox.
Most current MMO sandboxes are not really sandboxes. As long as you can't even shape the world around you, there is not much sand in that box.
This is why for me modded Minecraft is the only option atm. I can create a server with any ruleset and any content. There are a crazy amount of mods out there and loads of already ready to play modpacks. It is easy to create your own modpack and create a sandbox that you like. PVP can be lootbased FFA with everything destroyable, or limited to certain area with no looting. Or no PVP at all. You can make it so players become owner of plots of land. There are serverside mods that create factions you can join. Then there are the crazy amount of forge mods, from technical to magical. Even space now with Galacticraft. Or complete overhauls changing vanilla rules.
Possibilties are endless.
Anyway, I think sandboxes also need a server with adjustable rules. This means small scale servers for people who create servers and set their own rules. So maybe I just think it can't be really massive. So a sandbox MO.
All I am hearing in this thread seems to be excuses for why sandboxes don't have any substantial content. Too much imagine this, imagine that. Fluffy, what I would call meaningless things such as build your server reputation. But how is that even considered content? A lot of the things people are saying seem to be just stuff to grind just to make up for the lack of meaningful content.
And what is the content in games like GW2 and TESO? In themeparks, you spend roughly 100 hours on average to experience all the content in the game, and then you fall into the same hole essentially. You grind the same dungeons, raids, pvp maps day in, day out. At that point, themeparks don't differentiate much from sandboxes anymore. In both you have the learning period (or questing period, if you like), followed by repeating the same thing over and over until you get bored and quit. I just feel that sandboxes give players more options of things to do when they have experienced all the content *points to selfpost above*. Can you start a mining guild in TESO like you can in wurm? I highly doubt it. Not bashing the game in any way, just pointing it out.
You play through the content, enjoy some PvP perhaps, and then you're done (if you don't want to play through it again). They don't pretend that the game lasts forever.
100 hours from any game is a lot. For the box price, you're getting good value if you like the game.
In most cases, the 100 hours of content is vastly subpar compared to a 10 hour single player game. What is the 100 hours of content in a themepark, for example GW2? They make a weak attempt at telling a story to the player. But what is the player doing during those 100 hours of gameplay? They are essentially grinding 3 types of repetitive content which artificially increases the length of the story.
1. Kill x amount of y
2. collect x amount of y
3. interact with x y amount of times
In GW2 you rarely deal with the story missions during those 100 hours. Most of the time you run chores for random people to reach the required level for the next story portion.
So you've trivialized GW2, what is your point?
i don't see it as trivialising the game, i think he's really pointing out that Themepark games, like single player games, have a set amount of content that can be broken down into its components and given a 'time value'. The amount of time a game can last you for is most often defined as the amount of content the game has and is accessible to the players.
With sandbox games, different rules apply, the content isn't spoonfed to the player, but is something the player themselves has to define, within the context of the game world, or in the case of Eve online, Universe. The hardest part that players have to deal with, and the one huge factor that a significant number of players struggle with, is that sandbox games not only encourage players to use their own imagination, but rely on it, and its how this has an effect on the overall world around them, that gives these types of games their complexity, their challenge, their content.
Its not something everyone is capable of doing, and certain types of players will inevitably find it harder to overcome this single factor, more than others, think of it as a form of painting, where you have to paint a picture from your own imagination, rather than copying an object or scene in front of you, only the picture is just a small tile in a mosaic that others are also painting, and how well you do, affects the pictures that others around you are painting.
Sandbox games are a canvas for your own creativity.
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
I think it's a big misconception that Sandbox games can't have raids, group content, and any of the same things you get in a theme park title. While many titles haven't focused their energy on those areas, there's no reason they can't. A sandbox can give you all the same experience you get in a theme park game, it would just take that experience off the rails, and then provide additional options.
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
You might be able to do all the quests, do the raids and get geared up.
And then what?
What do you do when you don't struggle anymore?
Play something else until new content is released? There's no need to sacrifice all your life to a single game. Win/win.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
This is a post from someone who makes the false assumption that I am a "PvE player". I love competition. Maybe you should re-think your hypothesis.
Shall I? You love the limited competition of battle grounds of Wow and arenas of GW1, you are just afraid from the open world, where you have to play with other players all the time. So I think I'm clearly right.
I did play GW1 at a world championship level, yes, if that is what you call "limited competition". I've also played Eve for 3 years nearly all that time in null-sec. As an FC too. I've been part of and played with such alliances and power blocks as Atlas, Black legion, N3...
But how is a gank or a zerg more of a competition than a fair fight in the arena?
And why you made that thread when you know very well how the sandbox works, it is not related with the house - pve, but with the players actions - pvp.
About the arenas, there is no fair fight, except if you both have the same gear, the same skills, and the same experience in game play, so the only fair fight is the fight with yourself. If you cannot win vs stronger enemy, or when you are outnumbered, seems you are not a good player. But you know that very well too.
*yawn* Your baiting is too damn obvious.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
This is why most people don't get sandbox games.... You have to make your own fun.
That's why some people just can't play Eve, Or Darkfall, Dayz .... Or the other REALLY sandboxy games..... THey just don't grasp it.
Sandboxes aren't for everyone........ Everyone keeps asking for more sandbox games without understanding what they are really getting.
OR: There might be nothing to grasp. They just don't find it fun or worth the effort. That's how I quit Eve: The rewards weren't worth the effort and it just wasn't as good as I wanted it to be.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
You make your own games within the sandbox like a jumping puzzle or tower climber or shooting range or maze or anything you want. You contribute to the town by doing jobs usually for the benefit of the guild. It takes a long time to build a house in some sandboxes and even if you done everything you can always grind skills. No PvP required.
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
It worked for Minecraft apparently, but in my opinion, no, it shouldn't end there. Sandbox style games should always have some sort of option for territorial control. A way to exert your dominance in an area for rare resources or bonuses to your guild / faction or whatever. I see a lot of people complaining about how Sandbox games are always too much PvP. Well, if you don't add PvP and rely strictly on PvE, it won't make for a very good Sandbox as the OP is trying to point out.
No conflict = Stale or stagnant gameplay
PvE is best left to Themepark style MMOs. At least until a gaming company comes up with AI that imitates human intelligence.
This is also my take on it. I will not play a game if all there is to do is just farm and build. That's not what I am looking for in a mmo. I want politics, sieges and territory control above all and you cant have that with out open pvp. This is why I don't even look at Western sandboxes because they put too much focus on the building and not enough on the guild politics and territory control. Black Desert is the only sandbox game I am looking forward to.
i don't see it as trivialising the game, i think he's really pointing out that Themepark games, like single player games, have a set amount of content that can be broken down into its components and given a 'time value'. The amount of time a game can last you for is most often defined as the amount of content the game has and is accessible to the players.
With sandbox games, different rules apply, the content isn't spoonfed to the player, but is something the player themselves has to define, within the context of the game world, or in the case of Eve online, Universe. The hardest part that players have to deal with, and the one huge factor that a significant number of players struggle with, is that sandbox games not only encourage players to use their own imagination, but rely on it, and its how this has an effect on the overall world around them, that gives these types of games their complexity, their challenge, their content.
Its not something everyone is capable of doing, and certain types of players will inevitably find it harder to overcome this single factor, more than others, think of it as a form of painting, where you have to paint a picture from your own imagination, rather than copying an object or scene in front of you, only the picture is just a small tile in a mosaic that others are also painting, and how well you do, affects the pictures that others around you are painting.
Sandbox games are a canvas for your own creativity.
He was trivializing. Any game can be stripped down to its components. Any content can be attributed with a time value, as you say it.
How about you try to trivialize sandbox games. Say Eve Online? Go ahead and try it. See if you can't do it to a sandbox. I bet it is as easy as trivializing GW2 and it will look no better afterwards.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I'm always down to PvP for the glory of the battle. Now if you can toss in some access to rare resources for the crafting minded people in my guild to do their thing with, awesome . Battling over lands, resources, money can last forever, though I'm afraid there are very few players (in the entire world) who would actually enjoy this type of gameplay. Hopefully we can get them all together in one game some day.
Originally posted by sciocco I'm always down to PvP for the glory of the battle. Now if you can toss in some access to rare resources for the crafting minded people in my guild to do their thing with, awesome . Battling over lands, resources, money can last forever, though I'm afraid there are very few players (in the entire world) who would actually enjoy this type of gameplay. Hopefully we can get them all together in one game some day.
ArcheAge.
Game looks good except its tab target combat system, I'll wait for Black Desert instead.
many self called mmo players have no idea about sandbox MMO's games and game mechanic/gameplay.
SP & MMO sandbox games are very different,in mmo's sandbox players must deal with other players friendly/hostiles they must make ingame friendship an to be social ,in SP sandbox they have to play game only with AI .
The thing with sandboxes is that they won't tell you what to do or what you can do. Sandboxes aren't themeparks, so there's no living paperclip to tell you that you must do dungeons to get the gear, there is no developpers to hold your hands to show you which faction is the ennemy and which faction is the ally.
Sandboxes offers you possibilites, and you create your own objectives. A sandbox game/MMO will never answer to the question "And then what ?", because you are the one that should answer to that question.
Players don't know what they want and the ones screaming the loudest on the forums after "quitting" the newest MMO will never find an MMO they'll be happy with. I wonder why they hang around.
i don't see it as trivialising the game, i think he's really pointing out that Themepark games, like single player games, have a set amount of content that can be broken down into its components and given a 'time value'. The amount of time a game can last you for is most often defined as the amount of content the game has and is accessible to the players.
With sandbox games, different rules apply, the content isn't spoonfed to the player, but is something the player themselves has to define, within the context of the game world, or in the case of Eve online, Universe. The hardest part that players have to deal with, and the one huge factor that a significant number of players struggle with, is that sandbox games not only encourage players to use their own imagination, but rely on it, and its how this has an effect on the overall world around them, that gives these types of games their complexity, their challenge, their content.
Its not something everyone is capable of doing, and certain types of players will inevitably find it harder to overcome this single factor, more than others, think of it as a form of painting, where you have to paint a picture from your own imagination, rather than copying an object or scene in front of you, only the picture is just a small tile in a mosaic that others are also painting, and how well you do, affects the pictures that others around you are painting.
Sandbox games are a canvas for your own creativity.
He was trivializing. Any game can be stripped down to its components. Any content can be attributed with a time value, as you say it.
How about you try to trivialize sandbox games. Say Eve Online? Go ahead and try it. See if you can't do it to a sandbox. I bet it is as easy as trivializing GW2 and it will look no better afterwards.
I trivialized the game to show that not only sandboxes are grindy. Most themeparks are as well, but they put in effort to cover it up or mask it as "content".
"Collect 10 green mushrooms" is no more a quest than collecting 8 logs in a sandbox. The difference is, one game tells you to do it, and in the other you do it on your own initiative. In one, it serves you a practical purpose, while in the other you are just slaving for the xp bar.
I personally prefer neither sandboxes nor themeparks. They both have their strengths, and you can also use your imagination in themeparks to make fun for yourself (hence why I've played TSW for 2 years), just as you can in sandboxes. It's just a tad bit more limiting in certain areas.
Originally posted by fivorothHaha, I don't see the point of open world PvP ganking and I am certainly not afraid of competition. I actually love to play to win. I hate losing. Are you telling me people like you who enjoy ganking and unfair gameplay are no lifers in real life cause they want to camp people all day? The fact that these pro open world gank fest happy players don't want to play on equal terms shows you that are actually afraid of a fair fight and they certainly are NOT competitive.Competition can only exist when it is on equal grounds. Look at successful competitive games like Dota and Starcraft. Those games are fun and I have spent lots of time playing them. Ganking people in MMOs and playing for 10 hours a days just makes you a no lifer When playing football or any other sport, there has to be fair play. E.g. in football you can't have one team start with 20 players whereas the other team is left with like 8.
You are talking about ganking and no lifers, not me. PvP is competition not only in fight, but in trade, crafting, and every aspect of the game. Blaming me for ganking you just insult me. Blaming open world games for ganking shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you need equal grounds for competition in real life? No. All you need is a freedom. You say you love to win, but seems you are afraid to lose, so in fact you prove my point.
People who like to win, then like to lose. That's obvious. In real life you don't need equal grounds for competition? Where do you live? Every single sport and competitive game in real world is fair and is played on equal grounds. You can't play sports like football, basketball, baseball, volleyball etc. without fair play. Or do you care to elaborate? In work you are also often given similar opportunities to shine but some people are just lazy/not ambitious enough, not as smart, lack the skills or something else to seize those opportunities. That doesn't mean it's unfair.
All I am saying that people who don't like fairplay are just stupid cowards who know they will lose if they were playing on equal grounds. Those people are not competitive. They are just cowards.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
Thats one of the dumbest questions I have seen here in some time.
The "and then what?" part is up to you, obviously. What the hell are you asking us for?
Either figure something out or quit the game. Its your choice, get it?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by fivorothHaha, I don't see the point of open world PvP ganking and I am certainly not afraid of competition. I actually love to play to win. I hate losing. Are you telling me people like you who enjoy ganking and unfair gameplay are no lifers in real life cause they want to camp people all day? The fact that these pro open world gank fest happy players don't want to play on equal terms shows you that are actually afraid of a fair fight and they certainly are NOT competitive.Competition can only exist when it is on equal grounds. Look at successful competitive games like Dota and Starcraft. Those games are fun and I have spent lots of time playing them. Ganking people in MMOs and playing for 10 hours a days just makes you a no lifer When playing football or any other sport, there has to be fair play. E.g. in football you can't have one team start with 20 players whereas the other team is left with like 8.
You are talking about ganking and no lifers, not me. PvP is competition not only in fight, but in trade, crafting, and every aspect of the game. Blaming me for ganking you just insult me. Blaming open world games for ganking shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you need equal grounds for competition in real life? No. All you need is a freedom. You say you love to win, but seems you are afraid to lose, so in fact you prove my point.
People who like to win, then like to lose. That's obvious. In real life you don't need equal grounds for competition? Where do you live? Every single sport and competitive game in real world is fair and is played on equal grounds. You can't play sports like football, basketball, baseball, volleyball etc. without fair play. Or do you care to elaborate? In work you are also often given similar opportunities to shine but some people are just lazy/not ambitious enough, not as smart, lack the skills or something else to seize those opportunities. That doesn't mean it's unfair.
All I am saying that people who don't like fairplay are just stupid cowards who know they will lose if they were playing on equal grounds. Those people are not competitive. They are just cowards.
He has his own definition of competition - and "fair fight" too it seems.
And people who don't enjoy a fair engagement might enjoy the aspect of preying instead. Some players get a kick out of that sort of "dangerous" world. To each their own.
Also, he is baiting you.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
Thats one of the dumbest questions I have seen here in some time.
The "and then what?" part is up to you, obviously. What the hell are you asking us for?
Either figure something out or quit the game. Its your choice, get it?
Probably shouldn't call a question dumb then be unable to actually answer what he's asking.
Yeah you might be able to clear a spot in the woods, build a house with the wood you've collected, plant a crop, hunt, gather and craft, and then what? What happens next? Do you continue grinding materials for a bigger house, keep yourself fed etc. What do you do when you don't have to struggle anymore? Is that the endgame?
Thoughts?
It depends on the game. In ATITD, you can get into lawmaking, leading the big projects, or even try for Pharoah. In UO, there's also multiple paths such as running a venue (mall, tavern, battle arena, etc), getting into the ongoing plot, dare I suggest joining the roleplaying guilds.
The players that stick around in sandbox-style games aren't always focused on the progression mechanics, they are often focused on the gameplay mechanics. The crucial difference there is the former leaves when progression ends, and the latter settles into the mechanics that best fits their interest or play style. For example, a player may find mining and making weapons fun, eventually setting up a shop/business where they sell weapons to players or even entire guilds. Building a name for themselves in that field or even simply the act of running their own shop may be what the player is looking for, and they may do that for years on end, never experiencing the majority of the game's content, not because they can't but because they don't want to.
For many long-term MMO players in the sandbox-focused MMOs, the fun they are experiencing has little to do with goals set by the game and almost nothing to do with reaching caps, let alone being able to do everything.
EDIT: You're not one for trolling and baiting, so I have to assume this was a genuine question, although I am very surprised sandbox design (the reasons for it and how players use it) is this alien to you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Until MMORPGs become about society rather than the individual, there will never be a living breathing world. Players must be ready to sacrifice any notion of personal gain in order to totally invest themselves in the cause of the collective, to the extent that the labors of the society must be divided between them, and they will really watch their effort pay off in how the collective society flourishes. And during the maintenance of your society you must also be ready to defend it, from brigands, from other player-controlled societies who desire the resources your land has, etc. You are a citizen of a living society in a living world. Your fate as an individual is forever bound up with the society's fate as a whole.
Until MMORPGs become about society rather than the individual, there will never be a living breathing world. Players must be ready to sacrifice any notion of personal gain in order to totally invest themselves in the cause of the collective, to the extent that the labors of the society must be divided between them, and they will really watch their effort pay off in how the collective society flourishes. And during the maintenance of your society you must also be ready to defend it, from brigands, from other player-controlled societies who desire the resources your land has, etc. You are a citizen of a living society in a living world. Your fate as an individual is forever bound up with the society's fate as a whole.
This thread isn't about making a living breathing world. Please stay on topic.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Then go and build another things.
After all what you expect from pure sandbox ?
He work on develop games , or he said so.
That's why i feel hard to take his question serious ... because it hard to believe he don't know the answer .
A sandbox MMO should have the tools to make content by players. SWG for example attempted that, first with storytelling props, later on (almost endstage ) with the chronicles system. Both were crudely executed and storytelling maybe more for roleplaying purpose. But then it was a shitty engine to begin with. But imo a similar robust system should be there for players in a sandbox MMO.
Not just to create stories or quests, but also to create new crafted items, so gear etc. Kind of how modding fits into Minecraft, but then without the need to learn coding. It is a crazy ambitious idea I know, but I couldn't think of any other way to call a MMO a sandbox.
Most current MMO sandboxes are not really sandboxes. As long as you can't even shape the world around you, there is not much sand in that box.
This is why for me modded Minecraft is the only option atm. I can create a server with any ruleset and any content. There are a crazy amount of mods out there and loads of already ready to play modpacks. It is easy to create your own modpack and create a sandbox that you like. PVP can be lootbased FFA with everything destroyable, or limited to certain area with no looting. Or no PVP at all. You can make it so players become owner of plots of land. There are serverside mods that create factions you can join. Then there are the crazy amount of forge mods, from technical to magical. Even space now with Galacticraft. Or complete overhauls changing vanilla rules.
Possibilties are endless.
Anyway, I think sandboxes also need a server with adjustable rules. This means small scale servers for people who create servers and set their own rules. So maybe I just think it can't be really massive. So a sandbox MO.
i don't see it as trivialising the game, i think he's really pointing out that Themepark games, like single player games, have a set amount of content that can be broken down into its components and given a 'time value'. The amount of time a game can last you for is most often defined as the amount of content the game has and is accessible to the players.
With sandbox games, different rules apply, the content isn't spoonfed to the player, but is something the player themselves has to define, within the context of the game world, or in the case of Eve online, Universe. The hardest part that players have to deal with, and the one huge factor that a significant number of players struggle with, is that sandbox games not only encourage players to use their own imagination, but rely on it, and its how this has an effect on the overall world around them, that gives these types of games their complexity, their challenge, their content.
Its not something everyone is capable of doing, and certain types of players will inevitably find it harder to overcome this single factor, more than others, think of it as a form of painting, where you have to paint a picture from your own imagination, rather than copying an object or scene in front of you, only the picture is just a small tile in a mosaic that others are also painting, and how well you do, affects the pictures that others around you are painting.
Sandbox games are a canvas for your own creativity.
I think it's a big misconception that Sandbox games can't have raids, group content, and any of the same things you get in a theme park title. While many titles haven't focused their energy on those areas, there's no reason they can't. A sandbox can give you all the same experience you get in a theme park game, it would just take that experience off the rails, and then provide additional options.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
This is why most people don't get sandbox games.... You have to make your own fun.
That's why some people just can't play Eve, Or Darkfall, Dayz .... Or the other REALLY sandboxy games..... THey just don't grasp it.
Sandboxes aren't for everyone........ Everyone keeps asking for more sandbox games without understanding what they are really getting.
Play something else until new content is released? There's no need to sacrifice all your life to a single game. Win/win.
*yawn*
Your baiting is too damn obvious.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
OR: There might be nothing to grasp. They just don't find it fun or worth the effort. That's how I quit Eve: The rewards weren't worth the effort and it just wasn't as good as I wanted it to be.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
This is also my take on it. I will not play a game if all there is to do is just farm and build. That's not what I am looking for in a mmo. I want politics, sieges and territory control above all and you cant have that with out open pvp. This is why I don't even look at Western sandboxes because they put too much focus on the building and not enough on the guild politics and territory control. Black Desert is the only sandbox game I am looking forward to.
He was trivializing. Any game can be stripped down to its components. Any content can be attributed with a time value, as you say it.
How about you try to trivialize sandbox games. Say Eve Online? Go ahead and try it. See if you can't do it to a sandbox. I bet it is as easy as trivializing GW2 and it will look no better afterwards.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Game looks good except its tab target combat system, I'll wait for Black Desert instead.
many self called mmo players have no idea about sandbox MMO's games and game mechanic/gameplay.
SP & MMO sandbox games are very different,in mmo's sandbox players must deal with other players friendly/hostiles they must make ingame friendship an to be social ,in SP sandbox they have to play game only with AI .
The thing with sandboxes is that they won't tell you what to do or what you can do. Sandboxes aren't themeparks, so there's no living paperclip to tell you that you must do dungeons to get the gear, there is no developpers to hold your hands to show you which faction is the ennemy and which faction is the ally.
Sandboxes offers you possibilites, and you create your own objectives. A sandbox game/MMO will never answer to the question "And then what ?", because you are the one that should answer to that question.
I trivialized the game to show that not only sandboxes are grindy. Most themeparks are as well, but they put in effort to cover it up or mask it as "content".
"Collect 10 green mushrooms" is no more a quest than collecting 8 logs in a sandbox. The difference is, one game tells you to do it, and in the other you do it on your own initiative. In one, it serves you a practical purpose, while in the other you are just slaving for the xp bar.
I personally prefer neither sandboxes nor themeparks. They both have their strengths, and you can also use your imagination in themeparks to make fun for yourself (hence why I've played TSW for 2 years), just as you can in sandboxes. It's just a tad bit more limiting in certain areas.
People who like to win, then like to lose. That's obvious. In real life you don't need equal grounds for competition? Where do you live? Every single sport and competitive game in real world is fair and is played on equal grounds. You can't play sports like football, basketball, baseball, volleyball etc. without fair play. Or do you care to elaborate? In work you are also often given similar opportunities to shine but some people are just lazy/not ambitious enough, not as smart, lack the skills or something else to seize those opportunities. That doesn't mean it's unfair.
All I am saying that people who don't like fairplay are just stupid cowards who know they will lose if they were playing on equal grounds. Those people are not competitive. They are just cowards.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Thats one of the dumbest questions I have seen here in some time.
The "and then what?" part is up to you, obviously. What the hell are you asking us for?
Either figure something out or quit the game. Its your choice, get it?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
He has his own definition of competition - and "fair fight" too it seems.
And people who don't enjoy a fair engagement might enjoy the aspect of preying instead. Some players get a kick out of that sort of "dangerous" world. To each their own.
Also, he is baiting you.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Probably shouldn't call a question dumb then be unable to actually answer what he's asking.
It depends on the game. In ATITD, you can get into lawmaking, leading the big projects, or even try for Pharoah. In UO, there's also multiple paths such as running a venue (mall, tavern, battle arena, etc), getting into the ongoing plot, dare I suggest joining the roleplaying guilds.
The players that stick around in sandbox-style games aren't always focused on the progression mechanics, they are often focused on the gameplay mechanics. The crucial difference there is the former leaves when progression ends, and the latter settles into the mechanics that best fits their interest or play style. For example, a player may find mining and making weapons fun, eventually setting up a shop/business where they sell weapons to players or even entire guilds. Building a name for themselves in that field or even simply the act of running their own shop may be what the player is looking for, and they may do that for years on end, never experiencing the majority of the game's content, not because they can't but because they don't want to.
For many long-term MMO players in the sandbox-focused MMOs, the fun they are experiencing has little to do with goals set by the game and almost nothing to do with reaching caps, let alone being able to do everything.
EDIT: You're not one for trolling and baiting, so I have to assume this was a genuine question, although I am very surprised sandbox design (the reasons for it and how players use it) is this alien to you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You maintain a society.
Until MMORPGs become about society rather than the individual, there will never be a living breathing world. Players must be ready to sacrifice any notion of personal gain in order to totally invest themselves in the cause of the collective, to the extent that the labors of the society must be divided between them, and they will really watch their effort pay off in how the collective society flourishes. And during the maintenance of your society you must also be ready to defend it, from brigands, from other player-controlled societies who desire the resources your land has, etc. You are a citizen of a living society in a living world. Your fate as an individual is forever bound up with the society's fate as a whole.
This thread isn't about making a living breathing world. Please stay on topic.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre