And yet it sounded like it was going to be great, before reality struck. I just hope some other much-hyped games in development don't turn into fiascos the same way.
I just think we really need to stop pitting games against each other and appreciate each on its own. I'm so sick of doom and gloom threads on every MMO that releases.
Did you even play ArcheAge or just felt entitled to make this post?
Either way, legit players can easily get cash shop stuff from AH, even after 1 month after release.
Also you say only wait to get things is from the boxes, then a few lines later you say you can get them from the AH...at least be somewhat consistent when you write a thread.
I've played ArcheAge for a long time.
Explain to me how a new player can make money. I'd like to hear this.
A new player definitely has a hard time making money. The first real chance is if you get an 8X8 plot of land. I did know one fellow though that had a novel approach in making money with a pretty new character. He sold his labor. Didn't become rich or anything, but he made a living.
I agree with most of your points, but the gameplay for me isn't that great. The combat does not feel fluid at all, and all the marks/symbols above everything and everyone really break immersion. I think AA is a great concept that was executed poorly in my opinion. The trade and housing parts of the game is also great, but easily ruined by hackers/bots, but if you're a person that can disregard all of those things, maybe AA is a game you could have a lot of fun in.
Originally posted by grimal I just think we really need to stop pitting games against each other and appreciate each on its own. I'm so sick of doom and gloom threads on every MMO that releases.
I'm sick of seeing MMOs being released that either aren't ready or just shouldn't be. Then there are so many already released m being turned into over monetized cash grabs ruining what should otherwise be great concepts.
AA the F2P game is average at best hampered by a shoddy conversion that crippled a few of its great systems and according to the one friend of mine that choose to play the Trion version of it, it didn't take long for those changes to show how poorly they were designed and now with the added bonus of random bans by an automated system flagging people for no apparent reason.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Thanks for the psychology lesson. My point is none of what any other player has or doesn't have affects my fun.
It's a childlike mentality that would rather quit and not play at all because others have more. If I didn't like the game I would quit, the fact that someone else has a faster mount etc has no bearing on my fun. Sure I notice but could care less.
My co-worker has a faster car and may get to work earlier than me, sure I notice but I like my truck.
Originally posted by grimal I just think we really need to stop pitting games against each other and appreciate each on its own. I'm so sick of doom and gloom threads on every MMO that releases.
I'm sick of seeing MMOs being released that either aren't ready or just shouldn't be. Then there are so many already released m being turned into over monetized cash grabs ruining what should otherwise be great concepts.
Carrot Dash - The fastest trade-pack mount in the game.
-It might be nice to have, but not many people really care about the carrot dash donkey. The farm carts that are craftable in-game allow a single player to carry 3 packs him/herself while also lugging around up to 3 other players on the back. The only time one SHOULD be using a donkey is when transporting a pack in between low level starter areas (for a low amount of gold or to complete the trade pack quests) or to a further distance that is at peace. In either case, a player would rather have a farm cart -period- to be able to transport more goods. And even with carrot dash, the rider can still be easily caught up to with a mount or glider.
Racing Zebra - A blend of the two best mounts in the game (elk + horse).
-Again, would be cool to have, but not necessary. If the argument is that this mount is pay to win, then the question is win at what? PVP? The first thing that is targeted in PVP is the mount, if it is out. Mounts are susceptible to slows, poison, damage and debuffs, and are easily dropped. Once the thing is dead, the player will have to get to the stablehand just like everybody else. Advantage eliminated.
You can buy just about anything on the Marketplace, e.g., mounts, double-xp items, labor regen, etc. They even sell "Apex" tokens that can be traded for real gold. While the developers claim that you can purchase these items from the Auction House with gold, they fail to mention that with the economy the way it because of the constant farming and gold selling, legit players will have to grind and grind and grind and grind just to be able to afford the lower-end stuff. You can, however, bypass the grind and just pay real money if you wanted to.
-Lots of games have systems that allow players with extra disposable income to profit in-game from selling tradeable premium time stamps. Is APEX expensive? Yep. It also costs $15, so I would sure hope it would cost a whole hell of a lot more than a labor potion. I have seriously contemplated buying APEX and other cash shop items like the worker's comp potion to sell on the market. What has prevented me has been the low amount of gold these goods are currently going for on the auction house. ~10g for a labor potion, which is less than one planting of red coral on my two aqua farms. My buddy is a sub and buys labor pots on cd off the AH, and is still rolling in virtual cash.
The community is the worst I've ever seen. It completely kills the fun, the immersion, and the competition.
-Valid point, but a totally different topic. The first step to salvation begins with figuring out how to setup your chat panel correctly. Spam folder ftw.
he says the gamplay is bad and community incredibly terrible
goldspammers, bots, ganking, hatred, rants...and encouragement of this by the game because being a jerk is rewarded
I saw most of the video but not all. He makes a lot of points I agree with. Namely, when I look at Archeage I get a feeling of burden by all the things I am required to do to get to the fun.
Having said all this - ArcheAge is monetized brilliantly - those that have a huge disposable income can blow $1000s every month.
Those that can't afford to spend even 1c can buy stuff from AH
The game is a cash cow - this will be the model other devs studios are going to copy heavily.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
While like the concepts in the game play for the most part (a little to grindy at times for me), I am not at all impressed by the whole "f2p" and the cash shop. I really blame those on the mindless masses that do not have the patience to play through most time consuming MMO's. While some see such things as a cash shop as a convience, they don't see the down side that such things bring.
Having said all this - ArcheAge is monetized brilliantly - those that have a huge disposable income can blow $1000s every month.
Those that can't afford to spend even 1c can buy stuff from AH
The game is a cash cow - this will be the model other devs studios are going to copy heavily.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
Let me clarify what I mean - not the monetization itself - but HOW it's implemented in the game with the labor system - it is rather brilliant.
I fully understand your reasons for supporting LP. I've said many times, the LP system itself is not a problem. The real problem with the LP system is BECAUSE it's monetized.
Having said all this - ArcheAge is monetized brilliantly - those that have a huge disposable income can blow $1000s every month.
Those that can't afford to spend even 1c can buy stuff from AH
The game is a cash cow - this will be the model other devs studios are going to copy heavily.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
Let me clarify what I mean - not the monetization itself - but HOW it's implemented in the game with the labor system - it is rather brilliant.
The labor system is NOT brilliant, its actually one of the simplest ways to monetize. I guess the fact they have some people convinced its a good mechanic is brilliant, but it was a lie right from that start because there are ways around the system completely.
Limiting people's game play unless someone pays some cash on top of a subscription/patron or jumps through hoops is about the worst type of monetization I can think of from a player perspective. And Im not convinced its good from a long term financial perspective. There are definitely people who aren't playing because of it, and the game is viewed as greedy because of it (and rightly so) which is turning away even more people. And a lot of these are people who would be patrons so its not just losing free customers. AT this stage though the whales make up for it. But will they in the future? That's a gamble XL is taking.
The LP system was in the SUBSCRIPTION ONLY ARCHEAGE...it wasn't created FOR the F2P conversion. It was merely changed for it. The changes actually drove away a lot of players that were PAYING to play the game because it vastly increased the amount of money it takes to do what they were doing when it was a subscription based game. It serves as a hindrance to taking part in the base part of the game, the crafting/farming.
Celebrate the LP system now, then, when the game is a ghost town in less than a year (like every single other market) and XL finally gives up on the game you can come cry about another failed game.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Having said all this - ArcheAge is monetized brilliantly - those that have a huge disposable income can blow $1000s every month.
Those that can't afford to spend even 1c can buy stuff from AH
The game is a cash cow - this will be the model other devs studios are going to copy heavily.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
Let me clarify what I mean - not the monetization itself - but HOW it's implemented in the game with the labor system - it is rather brilliant.
From a developer point of view. And another point is.. that it may be short sighted... well that is not neccessary a problem in todays market, because noone expect that those games run for years. But with such a system you may piss on a lot of your customer, which may leave.. with other words with a system like that you will not increase your playerbase over time, but reduce it.. however, for most MMOs that is true anyway and therefore does not matter a lot.
From a player perspective it is frustrating.. especially as we all know that most MMOs will do anything similar.
Having said all this - ArcheAge is monetized brilliantly - those that have a huge disposable income can blow $1000s every month.
Those that can't afford to spend even 1c can buy stuff from AH
The game is a cash cow - this will be the model other devs studios are going to copy heavily.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
Let me clarify what I mean - not the monetization itself - but HOW it's implemented in the game with the labor system - it is rather brilliant.
How do you know how well it is working? I haven't seen any reports from Trion on how the game is doing from a financial stand point. Or are you privy to information the rest of us are not?
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I play a lot of F2P games. And i have never spent a dime on cash shop. They stuff OP is describing is fluff items so i can ....
So essentially you expect companies to pay salaries to 20 workers, invest in hardware, development, software ....just for you and alike you play for free? For your pleasure? I guess you also expect in restaurants should be happy to feed you from they own pocket, same for clothing, ... etc.
You are classic example why I really hate F2P, destroyer of quality games.
The F2P model that is highly reliant on cash shop (+sub) only works as long as the small fish don't realise what kind of disadvantage they have within the world.
In Archeage it doesn't really work because most small fish have realised by now that they are at a massive disadvantage.
Many people, including me, would never try the game. Either because you don't want to spend that amount of money, or because you're against it in principle.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I play a lot of F2P games. And i have never spent a dime on cash shop. They stuff OP is describing is fluff items so i can ....
So essentially you expect companies to pay salaries to 20 workers, invest in hardware, development, software ....just for you and alike you play for free? For your pleasure? I guess you also expect in restaurants should be happy to feed you from they own pocket, same for clothing, ... etc.
You are classic example why I really hate F2P, destroyer of quality games.
Yep.
And on the flip side, people who are willing to pay end up needing to pay for all of the freeloaders, so cash shop items are over-priced. I will not touch a F2P sandbox, ever.
Also, Sandbox play style works best when players have to provide mounts, equipment, potions or really anything that is used in game to help create a robust economy. A cash shop in a sandbox is ridiculous. You should have to pay a sub, then have access to EVERYTHING that is available in-game. Not be nickeled and dimed for in-game items on top of having a subscription. I'm not even going to get into the issue of having a PVP based game with P2W items...
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I play a lot of F2P games. And i have never spent a dime on cash shop. They stuff OP is describing is fluff items so i can ....
So essentially you expect companies to pay salaries to 20 workers, invest in hardware, development, software ....just for you and alike you play for free? For your pleasure? I guess you also expect in restaurants should be happy to feed you from they own pocket, same for clothing, ... etc.
You are classic example why I really hate F2P, destroyer of quality games.
Yep.
And on the flip side, people who are willing to pay end up needing to pay for all of the freeloaders, so cash shop items are over-priced. I will not touch a F2P sandbox, ever.
Also, Sandbox play style works best when players have to provide mounts, equipment, potions or really anything that is used in game to help create a robust economy. A cash shop in a sandbox is ridiculous. You should have to pay a sub, then have access to EVERYTHING that is available in-game. Not be nickeled and dimed for in-game items on top of having a subscription. I'm not even going to get into the issue of having a PVP based game with P2W items...
I'd even go further and suggest that by having a cash shop (outside economy), you are removing a large portion of that box .
Comments
A new player definitely has a hard time making money. The first real chance is if you get an 8X8 plot of land. I did know one fellow though that had a novel approach in making money with a pretty new character. He sold his labor. Didn't become rich or anything, but he made a living.
I self identify as a monkey.
I'm sick of seeing MMOs being released that either aren't ready or just shouldn't be. Then there are so many already released m being turned into over monetized cash grabs ruining what should otherwise be great concepts.
Its the tale of 2 games.
AA the subscription game was amazing.
AA the F2P game is average at best hampered by a shoddy conversion that crippled a few of its great systems and according to the one friend of mine that choose to play the Trion version of it, it didn't take long for those changes to show how poorly they were designed and now with the added bonus of random bans by an automated system flagging people for no apparent reason.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Thanks for the psychology lesson. My point is none of what any other player has or doesn't have affects my fun.
It's a childlike mentality that would rather quit and not play at all because others have more. If I didn't like the game I would quit, the fact that someone else has a faster mount etc has no bearing on my fun. Sure I notice but could care less.
My co-worker has a faster car and may get to work earlier than me, sure I notice but I like my truck.
Now for the next lesson.
Can't argue with that.
http://youtu.be/DBT7_I3KmR0?t=26m20s
he says the gamplay is bad and community incredibly terrible
goldspammers, bots, ganking, hatred, rants...and encouragement of this by the game because being a jerk is rewarded
HAHA!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I saw most of the video but not all. He makes a lot of points I agree with. Namely, when I look at Archeage I get a feeling of burden by all the things I am required to do to get to the fun.
ArcheAge's monetization is nothing new. And in the end its pretty insignificant in terms of MMORPGs (a lot of this due to its niche status as a PvP/gathering game).
Let's party like it is 1863!
I fully understand your reasons for supporting LP. I've said many times, the LP system itself is not a problem. The real problem with the LP system is BECAUSE it's monetized.
The labor system is NOT brilliant, its actually one of the simplest ways to monetize. I guess the fact they have some people convinced its a good mechanic is brilliant, but it was a lie right from that start because there are ways around the system completely.
Limiting people's game play unless someone pays some cash on top of a subscription/patron or jumps through hoops is about the worst type of monetization I can think of from a player perspective. And Im not convinced its good from a long term financial perspective. There are definitely people who aren't playing because of it, and the game is viewed as greedy because of it (and rightly so) which is turning away even more people. And a lot of these are people who would be patrons so its not just losing free customers. AT this stage though the whales make up for it. But will they in the future? That's a gamble XL is taking.
The LP system was in the SUBSCRIPTION ONLY ARCHEAGE...it wasn't created FOR the F2P conversion. It was merely changed for it. The changes actually drove away a lot of players that were PAYING to play the game because it vastly increased the amount of money it takes to do what they were doing when it was a subscription based game. It serves as a hindrance to taking part in the base part of the game, the crafting/farming.
Celebrate the LP system now, then, when the game is a ghost town in less than a year (like every single other market) and XL finally gives up on the game you can come cry about another failed game.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
From a developer point of view. And another point is.. that it may be short sighted... well that is not neccessary a problem in todays market, because noone expect that those games run for years. But with such a system you may piss on a lot of your customer, which may leave.. with other words with a system like that you will not increase your playerbase over time, but reduce it.. however, for most MMOs that is true anyway and therefore does not matter a lot.
From a player perspective it is frustrating.. especially as we all know that most MMOs will do anything similar.
How do you know how well it is working? I haven't seen any reports from Trion on how the game is doing from a financial stand point. Or are you privy to information the rest of us are not?
So essentially you expect companies to pay salaries to 20 workers, invest in hardware, development, software ....just for you and alike you play for free? For your pleasure? I guess you also expect in restaurants should be happy to feed you from they own pocket, same for clothing, ... etc.
You are classic example why I really hate F2P, destroyer of quality games.
The F2P model that is highly reliant on cash shop (+sub) only works as long as the small fish don't realise what kind of disadvantage they have within the world.
In Archeage it doesn't really work because most small fish have realised by now that they are at a massive disadvantage.
Many people, including me, would never try the game. Either because you don't want to spend that amount of money, or because you're against it in principle.
http://youtu.be/DBT7_I3KmR0?t=35m37s
"the difference between a paying player and free player is staggering"
Yep.
And on the flip side, people who are willing to pay end up needing to pay for all of the freeloaders, so cash shop items are over-priced. I will not touch a F2P sandbox, ever.
Also, Sandbox play style works best when players have to provide mounts, equipment, potions or really anything that is used in game to help create a robust economy. A cash shop in a sandbox is ridiculous. You should have to pay a sub, then have access to EVERYTHING that is available in-game. Not be nickeled and dimed for in-game items on top of having a subscription. I'm not even going to get into the issue of having a PVP based game with P2W items...
I'd even go further and suggest that by having a cash shop (outside economy), you are removing a large portion of that box .