ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
Originally posted by cheyane Doesn't ESO sell a horse in the cash shop ?
about 11 million of them according to their 'estimated' cash shop revenues
now that thar is some decent horse trading
Players were allowed to get to buy the best part of being a Vet, the white horse. This horse is not special in any way apart from being 1 gold to buy at a stables. They can also get one vanity mount, again not special in any way. That's it and we are now in 6 months after launch, so I stand buy what I said, there is no cash shop.
If you sell something for cash in a shop that is a cash shop. Same with FFXIV they are sellling a mount. You cannot cherry pick your definitions to suit your ideas that loses credibility.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
LMAO, that's all I got to say. Jealous suckas just mad.
Bethesda & Zenimax make a lot money from the store..almost every week they sold out in all products..now if that counts in the Superdata's article no idea..
Originally posted by cheyane If you sell something for cash in a shop that is a cash shop. Same with FFXIV they are sellling a mount. You cannot cherry pick your definitions to suit your ideas that loses credibility.
I think that it's useful to distinguish between different things. A game where you can get a basic mount (ESO) is not the same thing as as game where you can buy a massive advantage in crafting (Archeage) by spending cash in the shop, or one where you can buy endgame gear. If you want to make a technical point, fine. But it's a big logical fallacy to jump from "all games have a store of some sort" to "there is thus no difference between them", and that's a pretty common leap around here (even if you didn't make it). Microtransactions really do warp game play in ways that matter.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
There is NO cash shop in ESO.
They just wish it was to have something negative to say towards the game. Thats funny Final Fantasy announced one the next day afther I was saying it did not have one. I guess I need shut my mouth up about ESO. LMAO
I havent paid much attention to the ESO Store since I started out with the Imperial Edition at launch from GMG.. Is it still just the option to upgrade to the Imperial Edition from the Standard Edition and thus get the horse and the other things? Or have they started selling the horse separately?
Originally posted by SlyLoK I havent paid much attention to the ESO Store since I started out with the Imperial Edition at launch from GMG.. Is it still just the option to upgrade to the Imperial Edition from the Standard Edition and thus get the horse and the other things? Or have they started selling the horse separately?
That's all that it still is... Upgrade your account (which gives a horse) or buy a horse. That's it.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
There is NO cash shop in ESO.
They just wish it was to have something negative to say towards the game. Thats funny Final Fantasy announced one the next day afther I was saying it did not have one. I guess I need shut my mouth up about ESO. LMAO
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
There is NO cash shop in ESO.
They just wish it was to have something negative to say towards the game. Thats funny Final Fantasy announced one the next day afther I was saying it did not have one. I guess I need shut my mouth up about ESO. LMAO
I don't know if Scot was mistaken or whatever, but there it is.
and here is the list of the items in your link -
The ability to upgrade from the Standard Edition of the game to the Digital Imperial Edition
The Palomino Horse, a unique in-game mount
I guess you can technically call it a "cash shop". That being said you will have to also say that it's the smallest cash shop in the history of mmorpgs.
Originally posted by Galadourn if the game's development cost $200mio as was circulated, then they're still trying to recuperate the initial development costs. I don't know what typical IRRs are in the game industry to evaluate that number...
Ignore IRR. Ignore cost of capital. IF a project costs $200m upfront and has made $111, then it's clearly a negative NPV value so far.
Now if you want to properly calculate the actual NPV, then you need the cost of capital (required return...).
But then I guess, it depends on how many years in the future you project. Cause clearly a project like ESO will be longer than 1 year. So I am guessing they're looking at potentially breaking even in a year or more.
well, if they're half the money short in November, and you factor in that initial sales probably amount to the better part of that number of $111mio, I don't see how they can break even in a year, or even more.
Just two put things into perspective.
I own a fabricating, manufacturing business. As part of my machinery I have Three CO2 laser cutting machines. Each machine costs around $730,000.00. From the hourly rate I charge for the machines, it takes me 3-4 years to recoup my 730 grand. Each machine has a productive life of about 10 years. Do the math.
Expecting to recoup your investment in a year is very unrealistic.
that's true, that's why I mentioned right from the start that I don't know what typical IRRs are in the game industry.
in most businesses however, you have a business plan for the next 10-15 years. In MMOs... I'd say even 5 years is a bit of a stretch. So I don't know whether successful MMOs must recoup their costs right from the start from the initial sales and then turn a profit, or if that can be stretched a bit (but how much?).
MMORPGs are regularly running for five years, and ten years is becoming common. A ten year plan seems reasonable. Unless I'm mistaken, even if a game makes all its money back with sales in the first month, the company doesn't just pay off any incurred debt in the first month, they register the profit and reinvest the money into the company or another game in order to expand their business.
It is just so much more complicated than that. There is a reason why companies spend big money on accountants. Last year I payed mine over 60k and thats with a very capable bookkeeper.
To try to put it in simple terms. If at the end of the day, after taxes and all.... if I make a 15% profit at the year end I'm a very happy camper. You also have to remember that this is the companies money and that anything I take for myself.... i'll have to pay personal income tax on.
People claiming what Zenimax spent on development are talking out there ass. Also as a general rule, an investment dollar goes a lot farther when it's your own money your spending rather than someone elses dollar. I've been to enough auctions to see that first hand.
All I am saying is an account upgrade and a vanity horse do not make a cash shop. And the proof of that pudding is that six months later that's still all there is. A solo game like Dragon Age had more dlc for sale at launch than that and some of it was gameplay altering. MMOs with cash shops start with potions of XP and lock box gambling, there is a difference.
Originally posted by cheyane If you sell something for cash in a shop that is a cash shop. Same with FFXIV they are sellling a mount. You cannot cherry pick your definitions to suit your ideas that loses credibility.
I think that it's useful to distinguish between different things. A game where you can get a basic mount (ESO) is not the same thing as as game where you can buy a massive advantage in crafting (Archeage) by spending cash in the shop, or one where you can buy endgame gear. If you want to make a technical point, fine. But it's a big logical fallacy to jump from "all games have a store of some sort" to "there is thus no difference between them", and that's a pretty common leap around here (even if you didn't make it). Microtransactions really do warp game play in ways that matter.
AA is free to play and live on selling stuff while ESO needs you to buy a box and pay subscriptions so it isn't exactly a fair comparison, the stuff Wow sells is closer then.
But it frankly have little to do with how much money ESO made so far. If they indeed made $111 (the source of this information is a bit fuzzy, the real number could be less or more) it still isn't so impressive. A rather large part of the sum comes from initial box sales from preorders and the first month and I am pretty sure Bethesda and Zenimax hoped for more.
It isn't really bad either but this game will rise or fall on how well it does with the console version.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
ESO cash shop? Are you talking about the out of game store that sells -
The ability to upgrade from the Standard Edition of the game to the Digital Imperial Edition
The Palomino Horse, a unique in-game mount
Like the Imperial White Horse, the Palomino Horse has stats equivalent to mounts available in-game.
Is the FFXIV cash shop going to be like this? Only selling the ability to upgrade your account and a horse?
So far it has one account-wide mount and one makeover kit. They are also selling 3 minions and the Halloween event items from last year. The way FFXIV used to (and the way FFXI currently handles) past events were to simply place them with one of the holiday event vendors. FFXIV past event items used to go for 50 gil or less, something that any newly created character could make in no time. Now the items cost between 3 to 5 dollars. I'm not sure if said items are account-wide, but they should be.
Originally posted by cheyane If you sell something for cash in a shop that is a cash shop. Same with FFXIV they are sellling a mount. You cannot cherry pick your definitions to suit your ideas that loses credibility.
I think that it's useful to distinguish between different things. A game where you can get a basic mount (ESO) is not the same thing as as game where you can buy a massive advantage in crafting (Archeage) by spending cash in the shop, or one where you can buy endgame gear. If you want to make a technical point, fine. But it's a big logical fallacy to jump from "all games have a store of some sort" to "there is thus no difference between them", and that's a pretty common leap around here (even if you didn't make it). Microtransactions really do warp game play in ways that matter.
AA is free to play and live on selling stuff while ESO needs you to buy a box and pay subscriptions so it isn't exactly a fair comparison, the stuff Wow sells is closer then.
But it frankly have little to do with how much money ESO made so far. If they indeed made $111 (the source of this information is a bit fuzzy, the real number could be less or more) it still isn't so impressive. A rather large part of the sum comes from initial box sales from preorders and the first month and I am pretty sure Bethesda and Zenimax hoped for more.
It isn't really bad either but this game will rise or fall on how well it does with the console version.
As the article states, the 111mil projection does not include box sales.
Originally posted by cheyane If you sell something for cash in a shop that is a cash shop. Same with FFXIV they are sellling a mount. You cannot cherry pick your definitions to suit your ideas that loses credibility.
I think that it's useful to distinguish between different things. A game where you can get a basic mount (ESO) is not the same thing as as game where you can buy a massive advantage in crafting (Archeage) by spending cash in the shop, or one where you can buy endgame gear. If you want to make a technical point, fine. But it's a big logical fallacy to jump from "all games have a store of some sort" to "there is thus no difference between them", and that's a pretty common leap around here (even if you didn't make it). Microtransactions really do warp game play in ways that matter.
AA is free to play and live on selling stuff while ESO needs you to buy a box and pay subscriptions so it isn't exactly a fair comparison, the stuff Wow sells is closer then.
But it frankly have little to do with how much money ESO made so far. If they indeed made $111 (the source of this information is a bit fuzzy, the real number could be less or more) it still isn't so impressive. A rather large part of the sum comes from initial box sales from preorders and the first month and I am pretty sure Bethesda and Zenimax hoped for more.
It isn't really bad either but this game will rise or fall on how well it does with the console version.
As the article states, the 111mil projection does not include box sales.
Actually the source (Superdata) states that this is gross revenues. It was the ederscrolls forum post that decided to ignore box sales, in an effort to inflate the estimated subscriptions for TES. As for $111M not being impressive.... well, most people would disagree. I would even go as far as saying that the people who put up the money for TES to be made would think it was significant... even if less than they had predicted/desired.
As for cash shops... you believe that cash shops 'warp game play in ways that matter' then it is irrelevant if they are selling endgame gear or a basic mount. Otherwise you are saying that cash shops have no real effect, but that WHAT is sold (no matter how) has the effect.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
LMAO, that's all I got to say. Jealous suckas just mad.
Why would anyone be mad about both games having a cash shop? Now if Square Enix follows similar practices to Shanda Games (Chinese publisher of FFXIV) then yes I would be.
How many games on that list are f2p though? Doesn't matter the sub numbers that people come up with, in my opinion TESO will more than likely go B2P/f2p, so I'm just waiting patiently.
ESO and Final Fantasy XIV are both successful pay to play games that do not have in game cash shops and I believe that is the best model period.
ESO has a cash shop and FFXIV introduced their cash shop yesterday. They can easily make future updates and expand it with their Moogle NPC and tie it in with their Moogle Station System.
LMAO, that's all I got to say. Jealous suckas just mad.
Why would anyone be mad about both games having a cash shop? Now if Square Enix follows similar practices to Shanda Games (Chinese publisher of FFXIV) then yes I would be.
FFXIV China is selling the Fat Chocobo mount for $133.00
This is something thats new to Final Fantasy. Just because they sold a mount before did not mean they had a cash shop.
Final Fantasy XIV Patch 2.4 Coming October 28th, Cash Shop Incoming; Gold Saucer in Update 2.5
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn fans were waiting for the release date of patch 2.4 “Dreams of Ice,” and during the latest broadcast from Vegas’ fanfest Director and Producer Naoki Yoshida announced that it’s going to be released on October 28th, bringing along the new Rogue/Ninja class and job combo. Ninjas will be able to equip monk gear and will be unsurprisingly based on Dexterity.
The new job will require rogue level 30 and pugilist level 15 to unlock, and will be able to use lancer and pugilist skills.
In slightly more controversial news, a new cash shop coming with 2.4 will sell items for real currency, but they’ll be just vanity items like mounts and minions, and Fantasia potions to change your character’s race, gender and looks.
You can check out pics of the first items which will put for sale below, courtesy of Twitter user Cinnamon R.
Yoshida-san stressed that only vanity items will be sold, and there will be absolutely no “pay to win” element in the shop. Previous seasonal event items will also be placed for sale.
Finally, the Gold Saucer will be introduced with patch 2.5, with Chocobo Racing and Triple Triad announced as part of the first batch of content.
There’s no doubt that the introduction of a cash shop will ruffle some feathers within the community, but considering that all the items for sale will be cosmetic, and that other pay to play MMORPGs like World of Warcraft have the same feature, it’s hardly something I’ll worry overmuch about.
I’ll be too busy leveling Ninja to worry about a mount and a few minions, anyway.
Comments
Yeh I think your right. It did seem kind of funny for Firor to say something like that, but still...
Either way my post is edited. Good looking out
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I miss me some RvR.
There is NO cash shop in ESO.
about 11 million of them according to their 'estimated' cash shop revenues
now that thar is some decent horse trading
Players were allowed to get to buy the best part of being a Vet, the white horse. This horse is not special in any way apart from being 1 gold to buy at a stables. They can also get one vanity mount, again not special in any way. That's it and we are now in 6 months after launch, so I stand buy what I said, there is no cash shop.
LMAO, that's all I got to say. Jealous suckas just mad.
Bethesda & Zenimax make a lot money from the store..almost every week they sold out in all products..now if that counts in the Superdata's article no idea..
http://store.bethsoft.com/brands/the-elder-scrolls-online.html
I think that it's useful to distinguish between different things. A game where you can get a basic mount (ESO) is not the same thing as as game where you can buy a massive advantage in crafting (Archeage) by spending cash in the shop, or one where you can buy endgame gear. If you want to make a technical point, fine. But it's a big logical fallacy to jump from "all games have a store of some sort" to "there is thus no difference between them", and that's a pretty common leap around here (even if you didn't make it). Microtransactions really do warp game play in ways that matter.
They just wish it was to have something negative to say towards the game. Thats funny Final Fantasy announced one the next day afther I was saying it did not have one. I guess I need shut my mouth up about ESO. LMAO
That's all that it still is... Upgrade your account (which gives a horse) or buy a horse. That's it.
Here is the ESO cash shop:
link
I don't know if Scot was mistaken or whatever, but there it is.
and here is the list of the items in your link -
It is just so much more complicated than that. There is a reason why companies spend big money on accountants. Last year I payed mine over 60k and thats with a very capable bookkeeper.
To try to put it in simple terms. If at the end of the day, after taxes and all.... if I make a 15% profit at the year end I'm a very happy camper. You also have to remember that this is the companies money and that anything I take for myself.... i'll have to pay personal income tax on.
People claiming what Zenimax spent on development are talking out there ass. Also as a general rule, an investment dollar goes a lot farther when it's your own money your spending rather than someone elses dollar. I've been to enough auctions to see that first hand.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
AA is free to play and live on selling stuff while ESO needs you to buy a box and pay subscriptions so it isn't exactly a fair comparison, the stuff Wow sells is closer then.
But it frankly have little to do with how much money ESO made so far. If they indeed made $111 (the source of this information is a bit fuzzy, the real number could be less or more) it still isn't so impressive. A rather large part of the sum comes from initial box sales from preorders and the first month and I am pretty sure Bethesda and Zenimax hoped for more.
It isn't really bad either but this game will rise or fall on how well it does with the console version.
So far it has one account-wide mount and one makeover kit. They are also selling 3 minions and the Halloween event items from last year. The way FFXIV used to (and the way FFXI currently handles) past events were to simply place them with one of the holiday event vendors. FFXIV past event items used to go for 50 gil or less, something that any newly created character could make in no time. Now the items cost between 3 to 5 dollars. I'm not sure if said items are account-wide, but they should be.
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/745x1025q90/r/540/91pz60.png
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1078x1025q90/r/538/UTOdJP.png
As the article states, the 111mil projection does not include box sales.
Actually the source (Superdata) states that this is gross revenues. It was the ederscrolls forum post that decided to ignore box sales, in an effort to inflate the estimated subscriptions for TES. As for $111M not being impressive.... well, most people would disagree. I would even go as far as saying that the people who put up the money for TES to be made would think it was significant... even if less than they had predicted/desired.
As for cash shops... you believe that cash shops 'warp game play in ways that matter' then it is irrelevant if they are selling endgame gear or a basic mount. Otherwise you are saying that cash shops have no real effect, but that WHAT is sold (no matter how) has the effect.
Why would anyone be mad about both games having a cash shop? Now if Square Enix follows similar practices to Shanda Games (Chinese publisher of FFXIV) then yes I would be.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2kvtt9/ffxiv_china_is_charging_133_for_fat_chocobo_mount/
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/200972
FFXIV China is selling the Fat Chocobo mount for $133.00
This is something thats new to Final Fantasy. Just because they sold a mount before did not mean they had a cash shop.
Final Fantasy XIV Patch 2.4 Coming October 28th, Cash Shop Incoming; Gold Saucer in Update 2.5
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn fans were waiting for the release date of patch 2.4 “Dreams of Ice,” and during the latest broadcast from Vegas’ fanfest Director and Producer Naoki Yoshida announced that it’s going to be released on October 28th, bringing along the new Rogue/Ninja class and job combo. Ninjas will be able to equip monk gear and will be unsurprisingly based on Dexterity.
The new job will require rogue level 30 and pugilist level 15 to unlock, and will be able to use lancer and pugilist skills.
In slightly more controversial news, a new cash shop coming with 2.4 will sell items for real currency, but they’ll be just vanity items like mounts and minions, and Fantasia potions to change your character’s race, gender and looks.
You can check out pics of the first items which will put for sale below, courtesy of Twitter user Cinnamon R.
Yoshida-san stressed that only vanity items will be sold, and there will be absolutely no “pay to win” element in the shop. Previous seasonal event items will also be placed for sale.
Finally, the Gold Saucer will be introduced with patch 2.5, with Chocobo Racing and Triple Triad announced as part of the first batch of content.
There’s no doubt that the introduction of a cash shop will ruffle some feathers within the community, but considering that all the items for sale will be cosmetic, and that other pay to play MMORPGs like World of Warcraft have the same feature, it’s hardly something I’ll worry overmuch about.
I’ll be too busy leveling Ninja to worry about a mount and a few minions, anyway.
http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/10/19/final-fantasy-xiv-patch-2-4-coming-october-24th-cash-shop-incoming-gold-saucer-in-update-2-5/