It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
Scope creep is different from pointing out problems in existing systems as intended. I'm pretty sure that people know when they are asking for more than is offered. Everyone isn't a LUSER that plays these games. That's harsh to lump every potential tester into the "You know nothing about my job" group.
I wouldn't even call it rabid fans doing the buying. Instead I see it as those who want to be competitive and have an advantage when the game releases - either because they've dissected the fastest way to do x and y or they have enough limited time things purchased that they are the first to end-game and those always ahead of the curve because they have more time invested.
I thought I'd watch this stuff play out last night and I saw over 500 people casting the game on Twitch (yes, i manually counted and stopped there) so what you have to factor in too now is that people who are trying to become Twitch stars (because they saw youtube stars) now are going to have to purchase things like this or get it gifted to them to get viewers and stay current. So when you say "business" is involved, don't forget about the players trying to make a business out of the game itself. The scene is different than it was 10 years ago and there is money to be made in more places like reviews and video personalities. If you, as a reviewer can save me 20 bucks by showing the game to me (Twitch) or telling me about your experience (see Angry Joe) then you have a business now too and some of those Twitch casters take in about 5 bucks a month from the viewers that want to support them. Those that aren't partnered usually have their little donate buttons to take whatever you'll give.
You're taking generalizations a little to personally, and using that as a defense to rationalize them.
I don't have much in the way of a response other than you're right. Of course my generalizations are, well, general. There are plenty of critical thinkers going in there testing and reporting issues. Plenty of streamers and youtubers hoping to make it big and ride the hype wave.
Other than that, I'm failing to see your point. We agree: Business is running unchecked through the industry all the way down to the players trying to make it on their own.
"Buying the Early Access is just them playing the MMO, me thinks." --> Buying the Early access IS just playing the MMO.
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
Oh, one thing that you forgot, there are many countries which will actually provide you with grants for "research and development", so Open Beta is actually used as a means of obtaining grants for games on an ongoing basis and, sometimes, not ever even "releasing" it, lol.
Yeah, you're definitely right, also. I've said multiple times with regards to Early Access that the biggest issue right now is education, and not a single company is willing to step up and actually educate the customer on the process. The transparency to the process these days is becoming better and better (also due to Early Access), which for people who understand the process is exciting. However, to most, it's just a buggy game (and it is).
I remember a time when there were very strict conditions on alphas and betas. Like if you didn't participate, you'd be removed. If you logged a crap bug report, you'd be removed. Try doing that today, though, to someone who just paid $20 to access your game, lol. So I guess it's a matter of what's most beneficial to the company, which will always, probably, be money, right?
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
Oh, one thing that you forgot, there are many countries which will actually provide you with grants for "research and development", so Open Beta is actually used as a means of obtaining grants for games on an ongoing basis and, sometimes, not ever even "releasing" it, lol.
Yeah, you're definitely right, also. I've said multiple times with regards to Early Access that the biggest issue right now is education, and not a single company is willing to step up and actually educate the customer on the process. The transparency to the process these days is becoming better and better (also due to Early Access), which for people who understand the process is exciting. However, to most, it's just a buggy game (and it is).
I remember a time when there were very strict conditions on alphas and betas. Like if you didn't participate, you'd be removed. If you logged a crap bug report, you'd be removed. Try doing that today, though, to someone who just paid $20 to access your game, lol. So I guess it's a matter of what's most beneficial to the company, which will always, probably, be money, right?
Most of those grants are available at the "Proof of Concept" and "Alpha" levels. They don't have to be accessible to the public for them to receive that money.
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
Oh, one thing that you forgot, there are many countries which will actually provide you with grants for "research and development", so Open Beta is actually used as a means of obtaining grants for games on an ongoing basis and, sometimes, not ever even "releasing" it, lol.
Yeah, you're definitely right, also. I've said multiple times with regards to Early Access that the biggest issue right now is education, and not a single company is willing to step up and actually educate the customer on the process. The transparency to the process these days is becoming better and better (also due to Early Access), which for people who understand the process is exciting. However, to most, it's just a buggy game (and it is).
I remember a time when there were very strict conditions on alphas and betas. Like if you didn't participate, you'd be removed. If you logged a crap bug report, you'd be removed. Try doing that today, though, to someone who just paid $20 to access your game, lol. So I guess it's a matter of what's most beneficial to the company, which will always, probably, be money, right?
Most of those grants are available at the "Proof of Concept" and "Alpha" levels. They don't have to be accessible to the public for them to receive that money.
Yeah, agreed, I was simply saying that's one reason we see these games in Open Beta indefinitely. They can sorta have their cake and eat it too, you know? Get grants, plus take money from customers at the same time.
With the added airdrop controversy, this has kind of became F2P bad call as well as an early access issue.
My opinion on it is you may argue that anybody can get this airdrop makes it fair, but at the same time it just feels like a scam since you're paying money for something you may not even get and just throwing away money for nothing. Not to mention doesn't summoning an airdrop kind of kill the survival theme? Or is this not a survival game?
I don't play this game nor plan to, H1Z1 is it? But I do hope they either change it, or this game gets removed from service, since game companies tend to copy each other and if this is successful then we could expect to see even more shady F2P tactics in future titles, ones we may want to play, but don't want bad F2P models in.
I do like F2P but so far the only games I see that really does it right is Path of Exile (Only inventory space and cosmetics), followed closely by Warframe (Many weapons, characters, power ups for purchase, but most are possible to obtain by players for free, think boosts, cosmetics and inventory space for certain items are the only things that are strict item shop.)
Originally posted by remyburke I miss playing finished (or mostly finished) games. Remember those days?
No I dont. I have played almost every major MMO launch from 1999 on. I remember very few MMO that launch smoothly and content being fully flushed out. Or all content planed in play. What games do you speak of?
Come on. There's a difference between "buggy launch" and "barely Alpha".
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I do like F2P but so far the only games I see that really does it right is Path of Exile (Only inventory space and cosmetics), followed closely by Warframe (Many weapons, characters, power ups for purchase, but most are possible to obtain by players for free, think boosts, cosmetics and inventory space for certain items are the only things that are strict item shop.)
you missed marvel heroes .. which is the best model .. you essentially you buy classes/heroes and costumes (and also inv).
There is no such thing as f2p if YOU end up spending money while playing. There are no "good" f2p models out there. They all over hype the "free" portion but none of them could survive if people did not spend money in them. Therefore, they are not free.
In regards to early access, it is fine to pay for early access IF you are not going to being paying again to play the game at launch AND if the game is not going to launch as so-called "f2p". You also have to expect that there is a chance that an early access game may never be finished. So, in that light, early access should at least have enough features and be as bug free as possible before you decide to plunk down $$ for that early access.
I do like F2P but so far the only games I see that really does it right is Path of Exile (Only inventory space and cosmetics), followed closely by Warframe (Many weapons, characters, power ups for purchase, but most are possible to obtain by players for free, think boosts, cosmetics and inventory space for certain items are the only things that are strict item shop.)
you missed marvel heroes .. which is the best model .. you essentially you buy classes/heroes and costumes (and also inv).
Oh don't get me wrong, when I said "Games I see" I meant to imply games that I've played (my mistake), and the super hero genre just isn't really my thing so I wouldn't know about marvel heroes and on that note I most certainly could be missing some games that do F2P right, just don't know of them and doubt that number is very high at all.
I'll keep Marvels in mind though if a friend wants a F2P super hero game though
Originally posted by Gruug
There is no such thing as f2p if YOU end up spending money while playing. There are no "good" f2p models out there. They all over hype the "free" portion but none of them could survive if people did not spend money in them. Therefore, they are not free.
In regards to early access, it is fine to pay for early access IF you are not going to being paying again to play the game at launch AND if the game is not going to launch as so-called "f2p". You also have to expect that there is a chance that an early access game may never be finished. So, in that light, early access should at least have enough features and be as bug free as possible before you decide to plunk down $$ for that early access.
Not really understanding the assault against F2P. You enjoy your game you downloaded for free, you can play from start to finish for free and you decide you want a bit more enjoyment out of it, maybe a cool outfit that doesn't really do anything just makes you look cool. and now the game is terrible, absolute rubbish and should be damned because you bought an outfit?
However I can understand where you are coming from, MMOhut has over 1000 F2P MMO titles and I personally can only vouch for 2, as far as my personal experience goes, so personally I can expect that 99.8% of MMOs do it wrong as far as I'm concerned. So you do have valid reason to suspect such a thing based on that possible statistic, just keep in mind the model can work, just most companies are too greedy to do it right.
I guess after thinking about EA the only problem I actually have with it is people who abuse it and don't need to use it. EA is like a kick starter, but with a playable demo instead of an updated blog, but do companies like SOE really need a kick starter? And if a game company doesn't need the EA funding to develop their game its more like pre-ordering, which TotalBiscut on youtube can explain that better than me, but his biggest point is Aliens Colonial Marines, nuff said I think.
So EA to fund under-funded game company to finish game = good
Turning EA into pre-order in disguise = bad ; if said game is F2P = very bad (hey we agree on something )
I'm just getting tired of people buying into every EA and then complaining about it, the first few times and you can tell if you like to do it or not. If you know you aren't going to like it or there is a chance wait for a full release....who the F cares if other people buy in, if they want to let them....they might like helping test and or donating for dev. But it's like as soon as shit is available to get people are dumb enough to throw money at it and say I WANT IT NOW, despite the warning that it is unfinished...and of course devs are going to be like sure we'll take the damn money, who wouldn't.
Originally posted by Torvaldr People hate early access. That's why the game has peaked at nearly 28K players in the last 24 hours.
Honestly, I think people don't even think on whether they like early access or not, they just want zombies and they want them now; all the while not thinking.
H1Z1 will probably just be another aliens colonial marines where many people pre-order/EA it and get mad because they did so without thinking.
I don't see the issue. First, a business is supposed to make money... If you're not making money, it's not a business. Second, NO ONE is forcing you to pay anything... If you don't want to pay, then DON'T PAY. Third, if you don't know what you're buying then do some research first... It had be stated CLEARLY, OVER AND OVER, what the state of the game would be so don't be upset if you thought it was something it really wasn't. And finally, they have the right to do whatever they want as a business/provider... If you don't like it then don't give them incentive to keep doing it... In this situation your wallet speaks louder than words.
Originally posted by Torvaldr People hate early access. That's why the game has peaked at nearly 28K players in the last 24 hours.
The way I see it, it's working as it was intended. The purpose behind the charge was to limit the amount of people playing while at the same time gaining an initial boost in funds for the game. These people who have paid have the opportunity to completely shape and influence the game as a whole. It will be those very people that the developers will be listening to. IMO the money is well spent for that opportunity alone.
I don't see the problem with Early Access. If someone wants to invest in a game then they can buy into Early Access. If they do not then simply do not buy Early Access. It's not like anyone is FORCED to buy a game in Early Access. And taking away Early Access is defently NOT going to get a game out any faster.
Sometimes dev's need the extra money and want input on the game while its still entirely possible to make sweeping changes to the game.
Originally posted by tkoreaper I don't see the issue. First, a business is supposed to make money... If you're not making money, it's not a business. Second, NO ONE is forcing you to pay anything... If you don't want to pay, then DON'T PAY. Third, if you don't know what you're buying then do some research first... It had be stated CLEARLY, OVER AND OVER, what the state of the game would be so don't be upset if you thought it was something it really wasn't. And finally, they have the right to do whatever they want as a business/provider... If you don't like it then don't give them incentive to keep doing it... In this situation your wallet speaks louder than words.
Originally posted by tkoreaper I don't see the issue. First, a business is supposed to make money... If you're not making money, it's not a business. Second, NO ONE is forcing you to pay anything... If you don't want to pay, then DON'T PAY. Third, if you don't know what you're buying then do some research first... It had be stated CLEARLY, OVER AND OVER, what the state of the game would be so don't be upset if you thought it was something it really wasn't. And finally, they have the right to do whatever they want as a business/provider... If you don't like it then don't give them incentive to keep doing it... In this situation your wallet speaks louder than words.
The vote with your wallet logic is broken.
Open wallets speak louder than closed wallets.
No it's not broken as it means something other than what you're implying. What it means is it's a free market; support what you want to be successful. Do not support products you do not want to be successful. It's a personal choice, which is what a free market is all about. It also means you can not dictate control over what others buy or do not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh yeah EVERYONE is sick of early access, just like EVERYONE is sick of Kickstarter. That is why Early Access games sell like mad and Kickstarter campaigns still reach their goals in a matter of days. I mean man look at that poor Shadowrun kickstarter, it took them like 2 maybe 3 days to reach their goal...how horrible.
People who don't like early access games should just refrain from buying into them and wait for actual launch, and not complain complain complain. Meanwhile, the others who want to support the game and help smooth out the kinks and better the game can buy into early access.
So what if those people are sick of it? It's not for them, and they have no business saying anything about it if they aren't participating.
Originally posted by Torvaldr People hate early access. That's why the game has peaked at nearly 28K players in the last 24 hours.
Honestly, I think people don't even think on whether they like early access or not, they just want zombies and they want them now; all the while not thinking.
If they "want them NOW" ... they want EARLY access by definition. Otherwise, they can just wait for the real release.
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People used to get free movies/music/games.
You're taking generalizations a little to personally, and using that as a defense to rationalize them.
I don't have much in the way of a response other than you're right. Of course my generalizations are, well, general. There are plenty of critical thinkers going in there testing and reporting issues. Plenty of streamers and youtubers hoping to make it big and ride the hype wave.
Other than that, I'm failing to see your point. We agree: Business is running unchecked through the industry all the way down to the players trying to make it on their own.
"Buying the Early Access is just them playing the MMO, me thinks." --> Buying the Early access IS just playing the MMO.
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Oh, one thing that you forgot, there are many countries which will actually provide you with grants for "research and development", so Open Beta is actually used as a means of obtaining grants for games on an ongoing basis and, sometimes, not ever even "releasing" it, lol.
Yeah, you're definitely right, also. I've said multiple times with regards to Early Access that the biggest issue right now is education, and not a single company is willing to step up and actually educate the customer on the process. The transparency to the process these days is becoming better and better (also due to Early Access), which for people who understand the process is exciting. However, to most, it's just a buggy game (and it is).
I remember a time when there were very strict conditions on alphas and betas. Like if you didn't participate, you'd be removed. If you logged a crap bug report, you'd be removed. Try doing that today, though, to someone who just paid $20 to access your game, lol. So I guess it's a matter of what's most beneficial to the company, which will always, probably, be money, right?
Crazkanuk
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Most of those grants are available at the "Proof of Concept" and "Alpha" levels. They don't have to be accessible to the public for them to receive that money.
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Live a life less ordinary.
Yeah, agreed, I was simply saying that's one reason we see these games in Open Beta indefinitely. They can sorta have their cake and eat it too, you know? Get grants, plus take money from customers at the same time.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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With the added airdrop controversy, this has kind of became F2P bad call as well as an early access issue.
My opinion on it is you may argue that anybody can get this airdrop makes it fair, but at the same time it just feels like a scam since you're paying money for something you may not even get and just throwing away money for nothing. Not to mention doesn't summoning an airdrop kind of kill the survival theme? Or is this not a survival game?
I don't play this game nor plan to, H1Z1 is it? But I do hope they either change it, or this game gets removed from service, since game companies tend to copy each other and if this is successful then we could expect to see even more shady F2P tactics in future titles, ones we may want to play, but don't want bad F2P models in.
I do like F2P but so far the only games I see that really does it right is Path of Exile (Only inventory space and cosmetics), followed closely by Warframe (Many weapons, characters, power ups for purchase, but most are possible to obtain by players for free, think boosts, cosmetics and inventory space for certain items are the only things that are strict item shop.)
Come on. There's a difference between "buggy launch" and "barely Alpha".
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
you missed marvel heroes .. which is the best model .. you essentially you buy classes/heroes and costumes (and also inv).
There is no such thing as f2p if YOU end up spending money while playing. There are no "good" f2p models out there. They all over hype the "free" portion but none of them could survive if people did not spend money in them. Therefore, they are not free.
In regards to early access, it is fine to pay for early access IF you are not going to being paying again to play the game at launch AND if the game is not going to launch as so-called "f2p". You also have to expect that there is a chance that an early access game may never be finished. So, in that light, early access should at least have enough features and be as bug free as possible before you decide to plunk down $$ for that early access.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Oh don't get me wrong, when I said "Games I see" I meant to imply games that I've played (my mistake), and the super hero genre just isn't really my thing so I wouldn't know about marvel heroes and on that note I most certainly could be missing some games that do F2P right, just don't know of them and doubt that number is very high at all.
I'll keep Marvels in mind though if a friend wants a F2P super hero game though
Not really understanding the assault against F2P. You enjoy your game you downloaded for free, you can play from start to finish for free and you decide you want a bit more enjoyment out of it, maybe a cool outfit that doesn't really do anything just makes you look cool. and now the game is terrible, absolute rubbish and should be damned because you bought an outfit?
However I can understand where you are coming from, MMOhut has over 1000 F2P MMO titles and I personally can only vouch for 2, as far as my personal experience goes, so personally I can expect that 99.8% of MMOs do it wrong as far as I'm concerned. So you do have valid reason to suspect such a thing based on that possible statistic, just keep in mind the model can work, just most companies are too greedy to do it right.
I guess after thinking about EA the only problem I actually have with it is people who abuse it and don't need to use it. EA is like a kick starter, but with a playable demo instead of an updated blog, but do companies like SOE really need a kick starter? And if a game company doesn't need the EA funding to develop their game its more like pre-ordering, which TotalBiscut on youtube can explain that better than me, but his biggest point is Aliens Colonial Marines, nuff said I think.
So EA to fund under-funded game company to finish game = good
Turning EA into pre-order in disguise = bad ; if said game is F2P = very bad (hey we agree on something
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Honestly, I think people don't even think on whether they like early access or not, they just want zombies and they want them now; all the while not thinking.
H1Z1 will probably just be another aliens colonial marines where many people pre-order/EA it and get mad because they did so without thinking.
The way I see it, it's working as it was intended. The purpose behind the charge was to limit the amount of people playing while at the same time gaining an initial boost in funds for the game. These people who have paid have the opportunity to completely shape and influence the game as a whole. It will be those very people that the developers will be listening to. IMO the money is well spent for that opportunity alone.
I don't see the problem with Early Access. If someone wants to invest in a game then they can buy into Early Access. If they do not then simply do not buy Early Access. It's not like anyone is FORCED to buy a game in Early Access. And taking away Early Access is defently NOT going to get a game out any faster.
Sometimes dev's need the extra money and want input on the game while its still entirely possible to make sweeping changes to the game.
The vote with your wallet logic is broken.
Open wallets speak louder than closed wallets.
No it's not broken as it means something other than what you're implying. What it means is it's a free market; support what you want to be successful. Do not support products you do not want to be successful. It's a personal choice, which is what a free market is all about. It also means you can not dictate control over what others buy or do not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People who don't like early access games should just refrain from buying into them and wait for actual launch, and not complain complain complain. Meanwhile, the others who want to support the game and help smooth out the kinks and better the game can buy into early access.
So what if those people are sick of it? It's not for them, and they have no business saying anything about it if they aren't participating.
If they "want them NOW" ... they want EARLY access by definition. Otherwise, they can just wait for the real release.
nothing makes me laugh more then when my friends RAVE about some MMO they paid to get into early access about that they no longer play.
My favorite is AcheAge's $150 alpha fee that SO many of my friends paid for and they dont play now.
Alpha fees are a damn joke
(full discloser, i did spend $60 on SC, but not to play early, to support the game)