EQN cancelled, via lack of proof otherwise

Galia

EQN could very well be cancelled. There is no evidence to the contrary. It very well could be all smoke now, since so many quality folks exited the SOE building.

What exactly drives people to make such claims to say the game is still alive anyways, positive or negative? How will anyone actually know, until we get word on this matter? The division handling this game is in complete and utter turmoil at this time.

May as well just say ... EQN up in the air. We really don't know.

Aelious

Originally posted by Galia
EQN could very well be cancelled. There is no evidence to the contrary. It very well could be all smoke now, since so many quality folks exited the SOE building. What exactly drives people to make such claims to say the game is still alive anyways, positive or negative? How will anyone actually know, until we get word on this matter? The division handling this game is in complete and utter turmoil at this time. May as well just say ... EQN up in the air. We really don't know.

 

Because the only people who would know are saying that it is still being developed? You can not believe it but what would be the point of that? There is literally nothing to gain.

Thebeasttt

It was all smoke before the layoffs. Now something might actually get done over there besides a zombie game with 15 year old graphics.

Rollgunner

Originally posted by Galia
There is no evidence to the contrary.

Lack of evidence indicates nothing except a lack of evidence. It doesn't prove anything at all. 

The Zombie Apocalypse begins on March 1st, via lack of proof otherwise. There is no evidence to the contrary.

SpottyGekko

If the entire EQ:N development team had been let go, then it would be obvious that it was cancelled.

 

But only 10% of the team was laid off, which strongly suggests cost-cutting rather than cancellation. Especially seeing as most of the 10% were "softer" skills such as management and Customer Relations people.

 

However, the focus on cost-saving may massively increase the pressure on the remaining team to produce a game sooner rather than later. That may be lead to features and design concepts (like Storybricks) being cut or reduced in scope. So the original vision of EQ:N that we were promised may well be "cancelled"...

Rydeson

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

If the entire EQ:N development team had been let go, then it would be obvious that it was cancelled.

 But only 10% of the team was laid off, which strongly suggests cost-cutting rather than cancellation. Especially seeing as most of the 10% were "softer" skills such as management and Customer Relations people. True, but that 10% was primary "leads".. It tells me that not only cost were cut, but CN didn't agree in the direction EQN was going either.. My guess is that EQN will be reinvented into a multi-platform (watered down) game.

 However, the focus on cost-saving may massively increase the pressure on the remaining team to produce a game sooner rather than later. That may be lead to features and design concepts (like Storybricks) being cut or reduced in scope. So the original vision of EQ:N that we were promised may well be "cancelled"... 100% agree.. I suspect at this time, if EQN and Landmark remain on the list of active games.. Landmark will become a Trove clone, with some tweaking, and EQN will be a much smaller themepark game playable on most platforms.. I think Storybricks AI is toast, and the destructible world of voxels is gone as well..

Then we have to look at the future based on comments being made having games for not only the Xbox/Playstation, but tablets too?   How does one design a persistent 24/7 running game world for the tablet, and is that a issue with the console games as well..  Most console games that EXCEL are based on lobby queue format.

Smed is the one that said he's excited about making games for the Xbox now.. well..  What games?  Games not even in development, or current games, and which ones?  Right now I think we all can agree that NONE of us know the real direction that CN wants Daybreak to go.. 

Tracho12

Argumentum ad ignortanium aka the Appeal to Ignorance.

No one can disprove the existence of aliens; therefore aliens exist.

No one can prove EQNext exists; therefore it doesn't exist.

Vrika

Originally posted by Rollgunner

Originally posted by Galia
There is no evidence to the contrary.

Lack of evidence indicates nothing except a lack of evidence. It doesn't prove anything at all. 

If you want to get philosopical, there's no evidence that your post exists.

If, on the other hand, you're ready to take on more practical view on information. Lack of evidence that Everquest 1 has a dungeon full or My Little Ponies is good enough proof that there really isn't a dungeon full of My Little Ponies in Everquest 1.

Archlyte

So what was the thought process?

There is a lot of time and money in it but now we have to decide if we put our (Daybreak) time and money into it or just shelve it.

I can see this if they decided that the game was looking like it was going to suck up money for a projected period of time, and then be a big gamble on release. It's one thing for the team to have blown Sony's money on development, quite another for it to start eating into CN funds as it claws its way out into the market.

Tracho12

Originally posted by Vrika

Originally posted by Rollgunner

Originally posted by Galia
There is no evidence to the contrary.

Lack of evidence indicates nothing except a lack of evidence. It doesn't prove anything at all. 

If you want to get philosopical, there's no evidence that your post exists.

If, on the other hand, you're ready to take on more practical view on information. Lack of evidence that Everquest 1 has a dungeon full or My Little Ponies is good enough proof that there really isn't a dungeon full of My Little Ponies in Everquest 1.

 

The 'Person Who' fallacy aka misuse of anecdotal evidence.

Aelious

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

If the entire EQ:N development team had been let go, then it would be obvious that it was cancelled.

 But only 10% of the team was laid off, which strongly suggests cost-cutting rather than cancellation. Especially seeing as most of the 10% were "softer" skills such as management and Customer Relations people. True, but that 10% was primary "leads".. It tells me that not only cost were cut, but CN didn't agree in the direction EQN was going either.. My guess is that EQN will be reinvented into a multi-platform (watered down) game.

 However, the focus on cost-saving may massively increase the pressure on the remaining team to produce a game sooner rather than later. That may be lead to features and design concepts (like Storybricks) being cut or reduced in scope. So the original vision of EQ:N that we were promised may well be "cancelled"... 100% agree.. I suspect at this time, if EQN and Landmark remain on the list of active games.. Landmark will become a Trove clone, with some tweaking, and EQN will be a much smaller themepark game playable on most platforms.. I think Storybricks AI is toast, and the destructible world of voxels is gone as well..

Then we have to look at the future based on comments being made having games for not only the Xbox/Playstation, but tablets too?   How does one design a persistent 24/7 running game world for the tablet, and is that a issue with the console games as well..  Most console games that EXCEL are based on lobby queue format.

Smed is the one that said he's excited about making games for the Xbox now.. well..  What games?  Games not even in development, or current games, and which ones?  Right now I think we all can agree that NONE of us know the real direction that CN wants Daybreak to go.. 

 

There were five people let go from the EQN team, at least according to the Reddit post. Unless someone has specific numbers as to how many people were, or are still, on the team now who knows what % that was. I somewhat agree about the direction but I doubt CN would delve that deeply into changing its specific direction. That call came from the inside and I don't think it had to do with direction. Talisker just recently said that the "pillars" of the game were at EQN's inception and not one person's to drive.

 

Landmark a Trove clone? Even in LM's current form it isn't. Other than having a voxel world the two are nothing alike. Have you played either? Even if the Storybricks AI isn't added to landmark, if DBG is able to include mobs that can be pathed and scripted it will be a success on it's own. I have no doubt they will allow people to "rent" their own islands and be free to go gangbusters on the whole thing rather than just plots.

 

EQN would be hurt more by the lack of SB AI, at least in the scope of it being an MMO game changer. They can still design a good game without it but it would be unfortunate indeed. I highly doubt this is the case though. For CN to buy up DBG and specifically talk about releasing EQN and not retain the partnership with SB just wouldn't make sense. In the end who knows but I'll stand on the side of optimism when there is no proof that shows I should believe otherwise.

Kaelaan21

Originally posted by Tracho12
Argumentum ad ignortanium aka the Appeal to Ignorance.

No one can disprove the existence of aliens; therefore aliens exist.

No one can prove EQNext exists; therefore it doesn't exist.

Uhhh... that's faith - not lack or existence of proof.

You can replace EQNext with your god of choice in your previous statement or my next statement.

 

No one can prove EQNext exists; therefore I have the choice to believe that EQNext exists or doesn't exist.

 

Having faith in people to complete a game is okay (to a point). However, I believe that EQNext will be released. I believe that many planned features will be axed at launch and be required to pay for as an expansion. I believe that the game itself will not resemble the game that many of us invested in with a Landmark founder's pack purchase. I also believe that I made the right choice to make a statement to the new owners as I canceled my All Access Pass and uninstalled my SOE (now Daybreak) games. With all the MMOs and Sandbox multi-player games that exist today - I will not continue to invest time into character development in games that have uncertain futures. That's not to say that things may work out. But - I played (and enjoyed) Tabula Rasa. I played Warhammer Online. I played Star Wars Galaxies. So, I tend to distance myself from MMOs published or managed by unhealthy companies. But - I hope that the franchise lives.

Vrika

Originally posted by Tracho12

Originally posted by Vrika

Originally posted by Rollgunner

Originally posted by Galia
There is no evidence to the contrary.

Lack of evidence indicates nothing except a lack of evidence. It doesn't prove anything at all. 

If you want to get philosopical, there's no evidence that your post exists.

If, on the other hand, you're ready to take on more practical view on information. Lack of evidence that Everquest 1 has a dungeon full or My Little Ponies is good enough proof that there really isn't a dungeon full of My Little Ponies in Everquest 1.

The 'Person Who' fallacy aka misuse of anecdotal evidence.

Must be nice knowing all those fancy terms. Would be even nicer if you explained them so that I'd know what your post means.

theAsna

Originally posted by Galia
EQN could very well be cancelled. There is no evidence to the contrary. It very well could be all smoke now, since so many quality folks exited the SOE building. What exactly drives people to make such claims to say the game is still alive anyways, positive or negative? How will anyone actually know, until we get word on this matter? The division handling this game is in complete and utter turmoil at this time. May as well just say ... EQN up in the air. We really don't know.

 

Does it really matter? Don't worry about "unhatched eggs". One way or another there will be official statements.

 

In the current market situation I would rather focus resources on existing games (e.g. reduce technical debts, update grafix, bugfixing, new content) instead of making something new (which would cannibalize the existing products).

Rydeson

Originally posted by Aelious

There were five people let go from the EQN team, at least according to the Reddit post. Unless someone has specific numbers as to how many people were, or are still, on the team now who knows what % that was. I somewhat agree about the direction but I doubt CN would delve that deeply into changing its specific direction. That call came from the inside and I don't think it had to do with direction. Talisker just recently said that the "pillars" of the game were at EQN's inception and not one person's to drive. Really?  Jeff and Georgie GONE!.. In my book you just gave pink slips to the TWO main leads. Personally, I don't care if it was Smed's wanting to do that on his own, or pressure from above.. In any case, it is obvious certain BOSSES are not happy with their job performance.. PERIOD.. And I concur, I would of let Jeff and Georgie go after the 13 announcement of EQN

 Landmark a Trove clone? Even in LM's current form it isn't. Other than having a voxel world the two are nothing alike. Have you played either? Even if the Storybricks AI isn't added to landmark, if DBG is able to include mobs that can be pathed and scripted it will be a success on it's own. I have no doubt they will allow people to "rent" their own islands and be free to go gangbusters on the whole thing rather than just plots. Landmark was never suppose to have Storybricks, and I doubt we'll see it in EQN..  I think that ship has sailed and gone..

 EQN would be hurt more by the lack of SB AI, at least in the scope of it being an MMO game changer. They can still design a good game without it but it would be unfortunate indeed. I highly doubt this is the case though. For CN to buy up DBG and specifically talk about releasing EQN and not retain the partnership with SB just wouldn't make sense. In the end who knows but I'll stand on the side of optimism when there is no proof that shows I should believe otherwise.

I think the proof is implied.. NO PHYSICAL "in game" Storybrick demo has ever shown to exist beyond paper and promises.. And now that Jeff and Georgie are let go, I think it's safe to say, change is on the way.. If the new owners of the team are happy, they don't turn around and FIRE the offensive and defensive coordinators.. Obviously Smed thought Jeff and Georgie weren't worthy of paychecks either..  But as Smed said before the layoffs,  "Business as usual" in fact even said things are BETTER now then before..

Rydeson

Originally posted by theAsna

Originally posted by Galia
EQN could very well be cancelled. There is no evidence to the contrary. It very well could be all smoke now, since so many quality folks exited the SOE building. What exactly drives people to make such claims to say the game is still alive anyways, positive or negative? How will anyone actually know, until we get word on this matter? The division handling this game is in complete and utter turmoil at this time. May as well just say ... EQN up in the air. We really don't know.

 Does it really matter? Don't worry about "unhatched eggs". One way or another there will be official statements.

 In the current market situation I would rather focus resources on existing games (e.g. reduce technical debts, update grafix, bugfixing, new content) instead of making something new (which would cannibalize the existing products).

Agreed..  I think the staff at Daybreak was too fat, and needed the diet..  At times I even got the impression before the buyout that SOE was spread too thin in too many areas doing too much.. It was almost like "shotgun" development, with no focus or direction.. Sorta like General Motors before the bailout.. Ha Ha Ha.. SOE came across as a company that had a portfolio of "C" rated games.. Look how large our portfolio is.. Yes, and they are all average games, nothing stands out as a AAA quality, like World of Warcraft or League of Legends or Call of Duty.. etc etc..

bingbongbros

I'm just gonna go ahead and say this game will probably still get developed(FOR NOW) and if it does actually get a release it won't be anything close to the things they promised.  Their staff reduction, no matter the percentage, and obvious budget cut from leaving their parent company is going to hurt the end result.

 

SOE had a shit ton of a money and staff and still failed to deliver a majority of the development plans/concepts of EQ2.  How in the hell will they accomplish there outlandish claims now?

tawess

Well to be fair we have no proof the old team would have been able to deliver the game they promised either... This might after all been a situation of CN asking the leads "how do you intend to do what you want" and they not being able to provide an answer but refusing to budge on the question. That ofc is a good way to blow ones budget to kingdom come.

 

Faith is good... But it tends to get in the way of rational thinking.

Adjuvant1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

azzamasin

Originally posted by Thebeasttt
It was all smoke before the layoffs. Now something might actually get done over there besides a zombie game with 15 year old graphics.

In defense of H1Z1 the graphics are superb, it's the animations that leave a lot to be desired.

IG-88

Lack of proof is your evidence?

LOL!

 

logicbomb82

It's far more likely it' snot canceled, daybreak proposed there cash shop f2p model they wanted to with for it and then that is why the older dev's decided it was time to leave. We will get evernext next just not the version many of us wanted.

mrputts

The Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

Sornath

There is no evidence of cancellation. But if this post is a transparent attempt to get DGC to comment on the status of the game, then  I agree with the OP entirely.

Wizardry

Common sense and logic says WHY,would you cancel the flagship game of a company?You would in essence wipe  the business you just purchased right off the map,nobody could be that dumb.

If for ANY out of  this world reason EQN would be cancelled,it would tell me this operation has another agenda that is NOT about gaming.

Loke666

It seems like bigfoot exists too since it is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

In both cases the logic sucks, you have to prove that the game is cancelled and you have to prove that bigfoot exist. The need to proof here is on your end until someone from Daybreak actually say that it is cancelled which a lot of them have stated that it in't.