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[General Article] General: The Pros & Cons of Free-to-Play

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  • LanfeaLanfea Member UncommonPosts: 223

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by Lanfea

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

    It is inevitable that the games industry will eventually be regulated just like the RL "gaming" industry (i.e. casino's and online betting). There is no difference between a RL slot machine and a virtual slot machine (RNG lockbox).

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    I don't value F2P games highly. The reason is: with a subscription or buy2play game, the developers will try to create the best possible game their skills and funds allow, to have it gain good reviews, get people to buy it and get people to keep playing it. With F2P, the first step is the same. However, the second step is to make the game worse, unless people pay more money. Such as by restricting the amount of bank and inventory space, or the number of characters they have. Paying for that does not give you more content or anything that actually took time to develop and would thus be worth something. It's just about getting rid of ways the devs made the game worse, on purpose, to have you pay.

    Here is an analogy:

    Subscription: Someone builds a super awesome playground. You have to pay 10$ a month to have your kids play it on.

    Buy2play: Someone builds a super awesome playground. You have to pay once 200$ to get a permanent ticket to let your kids play on it.

    Free2play: Someone builds a super awesome playground and lets your kid play for five minutes. Then he spreads syringes, rusty nails and broken shards of glass whereever your kid is. To have him stop messing things up, you have to pay money.

     

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    Originally posted by Lanfea

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

    Did not know this. From Canada to Germany:

     

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,793

    If f2p were in fact free, then maybe there might be some truth to the term. Since a game has to make money to survive, it can never be trully free and hence the reason the term "free to play" is more scam then truth. 99% of the so-called "free to play" games I have tried are pretty much worthless UNLESS you spend money. Additionally, they all seem to attract those people that have no sense of community and things that once made playing MMO's in particular more interesting. I compare all f2p games of today with ding joints of the past. If you don't know what a ding joint is, look it up.

     

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    The main thing I look at with F2P/B2P/P2P is customer service tbh and what is entitled to a gamer when investing in either. As the article mentioned F2P is nice since it allows you to try the game, in most cases fully (to cap), and determine if its worth your time or not. And many people get into games and forget its mostly free to try unless you honestly put a lot of time into the game like making money and buying cash shop items from other people. But then say you get hacked for whatever reason. Sure people can say its the players fault or whatever but many companies have been hacked or attacked even just last year. And do people think they really make enough money for say Blizzard's level of internet security? Probably not. However, you are allowed to play their game for free and they honestly do not have to do anything about it in the end to help you if it happens. They might get your character back and if they do its usually complete stripped and they probably wont give you the stuff back. P2P in most cases (from my experience, even though I've only been hacked like twice in about 12 years of online gaming), do roll-backs and refunds when you get transferred or whatever. Except SE. SE did give me a roll back but they never refunded the money for my transfer done when I was hacked. I even asked them 3 months after it happened and they were like "We will determine when the refund will take place as it was shown from our records that you did have an incident on this account." And that was 5 years ago....still waiting lol. Anyway, rant ending soon, to me P2P gives more security for your hard work whereas everything you work for in a F2P game can more than likely be erased more randomly.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by XPhiler
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by XPhiler

    Question all is it just because of the whales or is it because more people paying less is more profitable then less people paying regularly? Thats the real question imho

    F2P works because it reduces the cost of new customer acquisition. Marketing is often 5-10x the cost of development. If you can reduce that cost 10x by going F2P, you can reach the break even point much sooner, and easier. This is why F2P is good for independants, and for games after the 1st year. P2P is still the best deal (for the first year) for any big studio, as they can put out cash for a marketing blitz, and get it back with the initial buy-in. 

     

    Most people (outside of the business) do not realize that F2P is about the EXPENSE side, not the REVENUE side. If you lower your cost, becoming profitable is much easier. F2P was a counter to the big publishers (like EA) that could push huge marketing campaigns. Now that customers have started to become more wary of these, they have changed to F2P as well, because they are getting less return for their dollar, except with the established brands.

    Is that truly the case though? Do companies cut marketing when they go Free to Play? Is cutting marketing out the equation even viable? Your game may be free but people still need to pick it over the other million out there which means you still need to convince to them to play it. It may be easier then convincing them to buy it month after month sure but you still need to get the word out there. Lets look at all those games then switched from subscription to free to play for example? did they really cut their advertisement ? I've seen a strong marketing push for rift's nightmare tide and currently there is quite an effort being done by Tera.  

    Even low budget browser based MMOs have a truckload of advertising going on all the time. 

     

    There is obviously no way for anyone to know how it compares to subscription based games but from where I sit it doesnt seem its drastically less certainly not by a factor of 10. 

     

    After the F2P conversion for DDO they did not cut the marketing budget (initially) they used the existing budget, and the F2P conversion to spike the player growth. They cut the budget by a factor of ~5 after the first quarter, and again on the next quarter. I dont have numbers for RIFT, but I suspect it was similar.

    Originally posted by Lanfea

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

    Could you provide a link to the law.  I see many claims made that are often not 100% correct. As I am seeing Free to Play actively advertised in Germany today (as of this post), I suspect there might be more to this.

     

     

  • ValkyrieValkyrie Member UncommonPosts: 192

    I'm tired of most F2P models by now and actively look out for subscription games. Pay-2-Win never was a fear of mine. But the F2P component has become for me enough of a dealbreaker, that I usually avoid the game or plain try to not spent any money in them at ALL.

     

    I've played games which had it introduced as an afterthought (EQ2, played it for years, long term even after F2P) or started out with it (ArcheAge, Wurm Online) - all three were the only ones I actually paid for. In all three I paid for the subscription version, in ArcheAge I paid for some extra market money since the game was free (I reasoned $40 is the game worth so that is what I got for the market coinage).

     

    For EQ2 I was ok with getting Station Cash on the side and spending it, basically the subtle way of F2P in EQ2 was in my eyes done the best, but it took a while to get there and I felt after a while that it really hurts my game enjoyment. I was a carpenter you know? The fancy furniture is in the market ...

     

    ArcheAge: it was in your face, the items available for inventory and such really hurt/improves and I literally held on to the game DESPITE all the F2P/market annoyance for a while. But it was not enough game enjoyment to overcome the constant feeling of "I'm not paying more, but I'm punished for it".

     

    Wurm Online: the break came when one month was ramped up to 8 Euro (yes, they refused to charge in Dollars an equal price) and you have to pay for your deed too. If you are not a rare high level crafter of much thought after goods with tons of time at your hand ... the only way of paying is with your real world wallet. Talk another 5 Euros (or much more if the deed is larger). Then of course there are tons of items in the game all traded for silver - which is only introduced into the game in useful amounts by people spending real world money on acquiring it. There are people who have spent thousands of euros for their chars in a handful of years and a friend sold his account with a high level char able to finance a larger deed through play for several hundred dollar (that is legal in Wurm). Restrictions as F2P are severe (no skill beyond 20, no sleeping bonus) and joining a village without having to pay for upkeep means usually slave work but no spot of your own or seeing all the things you worked for so hard (the game is work intense) being threatened by people who funded upkeep leaving the settlement. Once the deed is voided everything starts decaying, especially wood decays crazy fast. I've stopped playing because I hate the unclear framing of what I have access to and what not and having to calculate every time if I think that in Dollar is still reasonable or too much for my impression. I left despite having still several month of upfront paid subscription/premium play time! Because it drains my fun and causes anxiety for me to do the math and wonder and brood.

     

    I've even stopped playing Landmark because the whole "5(8)" days of upkeep payment possible maximum ... I've replaced my claim 3 times after I had lost it due to not having time (work and family, weird stuff) to log in and pay upkeep. Each time I had a total pain to try to fit it again in, despite being border to border build. Each time I spent more time adjusting the building to fit the slightly moved location (how silly is that??) than I spent afterwards building on it again. It became an exercise in frustration and futility and I finally left.

     

    I want a subscription model were I have the full package, can spend money on something cosmetic - but receive some funds for that with my subscription. And where the market for real world money does not interfere with my actual game (like producing furniture while the carpenter looks with sadness at what styles he can do). Any game that says "subscription only" by now has  bonus for me, a significant one. I would likely never have bought and played Wildstar (usually not my kind of game) if not for the humor and SUBSCRIPTION based system. Yes, it has come to the point where I'm actively looking for subscription games because of the negative experience from F2P models.

     

    Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
    Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
    Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
    Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation

  • ValkyrieValkyrie Member UncommonPosts: 192
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    I look at this way..  F2P is "pay as you go"..  It's like a users tax.. If you don't use the content, you are not paying for it..  Subscription is basically a "socialist" pay model where everyone pays the same rate, regardless if they use the content or not..  I have no objection to B2P or F2P models as long as they are set up fairly.. (which most often they are not).. 

    Why should a casual gamer that only plays a few hours a month for example, pay the same as the person that lives on the game playing and consuming content at a rate of 6 hours a day?  He shouldn't..  I'm glad that MOST of our economy is based on usage philosophy then a socialist point of view.. 

    In my opinion the loudest players against F2P are those gamers that live online, and feel everyone should support their habit socially.. /shrug  Personally my choice is B2P, as long as the formula is fair.. 

     

    From my experience (and that includes me) people who are anti-F2P are actually people who are like me total casual and can rarely play but have money on hand to spent on subscription, still look for their money and greatly prefer not having to think about USAGE. We're reminded of how little time we have to play all the time, thank you. And in a game it is the least thing I want to do (making mental notes if I think that is worth it, especially considering the time I have for playing).

    Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
    Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
    Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
    Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation

  • ValkyrieValkyrie Member UncommonPosts: 192
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by Lanfea

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

    Could you provide a link to the law.  I see many claims made that are often not 100% correct. As I am seeing Free to Play actively advertised in Germany today (as of this post), I suspect there might be more to this.

     

    I don't live in Germany anymore but that is very likely correct. There is a (much controlled, obeyed and exerted) law about false advertisement and in that statements are taken very literal having forced companies of all kinds of goods or services to change their product or the advertisement.

    Advertising as "free to play" (and small letter print is not allowed in that case, only ... normal letter print, asterisks are usually banned too if they enforce restrictions of the initial statement) must literally be put as "free to play in its entirety no matter what happens".

    Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
    Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
    Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
    Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation

  • ValkyrieValkyrie Member UncommonPosts: 192
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    I find it incredibly ironic that I now spend more time trying to calculate the "true" cost of playing a F2P game than I ever did back in the days when there was only a single monthly sub payment required ! image

    Exactly!

    Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
    Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
    Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
    Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation

  • ValkyrieValkyrie Member UncommonPosts: 192
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    I think entice is the wrong word to use.  When I play F2P games, I feel punished if not buying and using XP potions or buying bag space or extra hot bars.  I feel left out if I don't pay for the new classes or ships or faster mounts that are only available via the cash shop.  I wouldn't be so upset in buying them if they didn't add up to be so much more expensive than a subscription would have been. 

     

    Yes!

    Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
    Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
    Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
    Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Everything else aside, I do not think it is coincidental that the "rise of F2P MMORPGs" coincided with the overall decline in the MMORPG genre.

    Fewer MMORPGs being made now, fewer companies making them.

    Especially designing "F2P" games from scratch (as opposed to retreading formerly P2P MMOs) has proven to be like cancer for gameplay mechanics.

     

    But most of all is the decline in overall "quality" gaming: if a game isn't perceived to be "good enough" to warrant a sub, lower end companies (like Cryptic) put cheap games out "F2P" and don't even care about quality.

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,688
    The majority of F2P games these days ask for a subscription (usually referred to as VIP status) for the same cost as a sub game, if not more, AND have a cash shop.  That's just dirty pool.  
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by Valkyrie
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by Lanfea

    well, as for germany, the term "f2p" is history because due to a new law companies can't use it for advertising anymore unless they can prove that a player gets complete access to all content without paying a dime. as result in the last months companies (which are on german soil) changed their adverts from "free to play" to "play now" or "free to download". maybe only semantics but nevertheless a clear message: there is no such thing as free to play. and to be clear, they neither can't use the german words for "free" and "play" nor the english ones. companies try to get around it. gameforge f.e. added the term "free to play" as subtitle for aion. but to be accountable as subtitle they now can't use it for any other of their games. to be honest the original cause for the law wasn't the client based mmogs. browser- and mobilegames were. especially those which targeted the youth.

    Could you provide a link to the law.  I see many claims made that are often not 100% correct. As I am seeing Free to Play actively advertised in Germany today (as of this post), I suspect there might be more to this.

     

    I don't live in Germany anymore but that is very likely correct. There is a (much controlled, obeyed and exerted) law about false advertisement and in that statements are taken very literal having forced companies of all kinds of goods or services to change their product or the advertisement.

    Advertising as "free to play" (and small letter print is not allowed in that case, only ... normal letter print, asterisks are usually banned too if they enforce restrictions of the initial statement) must literally be put as "free to play in its entirety no matter what happens".

    I understand some of the complexities of advertising in Germany. However, the poster claimed that there was new legislation that specifically prohibited the use of 'free to play' in advertising in Germany. I can find no such legislation, and am seeing the term actively  being used today (which the posted stated was illegal). This is why I am looking for a link to an official source.

     

    The closest thing I could find was these:

    http://www.pokerrealmoney.com/online-gambling-sites-withdraw-germany/

    Which indicates that real money gambling was prohibited, but that some of the companies continued the product in a F2P (no real money betting/winning) mode after being blocked from taking real money.

     

    http://www.mondaq.com/x/285154/advertising+marketing+branding/German+Federal+Supreme+Court+Releases+LongAwaited+Decision+in+Gameforge+Runes+of+Magic+Case

    Which indicates that you can not advertise sales directly to children (under age 14) in a manner that may not be clear to them. This resolves around the use of the second person singular (not the term free to play)

     

    Neither of these seem to have any direct bearing on the general use of F2P as a marketing term.

     

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