Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
I thought the same thing, being somebody who played tabletop since the early 80's, enjoyed MUD's, tried UO and EQ and found them so excruciatingly dull that I went BACK to MUD's until SWG-JtL came out...
...and is pretty happy with MMO options, today. Could they be better? Sure. No one has yet read my mind and built the exact game I want, and unlike the poster above, I accept and realize that if someone did, it wouldn't necessarily be a success.
The good news for them though, is that it would be pretty cheap to make a new game like UO or EQ, today.
But still, this whole, "I'm a REAL gamer cuz I liked those games and don't like the new stuff" attitude just reeks of stupid.
Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Sounds arrogant to me too. Another of those "I'm better than you all because I play other games than you do" posts, quite usual from that poster. People who post that don't realize they post about a video game, and that the people that they belittle that way may be (for instance) the doctor who will one day save their life. But yeah, he's not playing those "snob" games, so he's an inferior, less intelligent being.
I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
MMORPGs have changed to the point they are nearly unrecognizable in many ways to the "worlds" we used to have. With the tech of today, these worlds should have evolved- Rather,they devolved to find the largest pool of players as the internet became 'mainstream' and taken from the realm of the nerds. =P
MMO'RPGs' (I use RPG lightly) are a major, mainstream activity these days. The genre is more popular and making more money than ever- However, they have been streamlined to cater to the masses. This isnt a good or a bad thing, necessarily depending on your tastes) but is just a thing. To evolve and gain massive popularity MMORPGs have been forced to devolve into more action based, piecemeal, quick in and out games, almost lobby-like... They hold the interest of the masses better and thus this is the direction the genre has taken.
The same happened among CRPGs as well- Graphics became amazing but the games became very shallow. hell, MLB the show (a sports game) was more "RPG"than 95% ofthe RPGs released in the last five or so years. Even Final Fantasy, for gods sake.
However, in the last year or possibly 2 the glut and simplification of CRPGs (single player) has been filled with a plethora of awesome games with an old school vibe- Which are also selling like mad. Wasteland 2, Shadow run. FTL, POE, and many others are now catering to the needs ofthe niche that was left behind and are finding a newer audience who appreciates these type of games as well- We are in a resurgence, an INCLINE in the complexity and depth of CRPGs that has been missing fora decade or so- The CRPG world is now filled with more games of my preferred style than I have time to play- Vs the last few years where most of the "CRPGs" were action titles with little depth and stats.
I'm hoping the same happens with MMORPGs , however, I highly doubt it. This genre has become the greediest most underhanded and least creative genre in gaming- Which is very sad. It should be the most dynamic and complex.
So its not knocking anyone for liking games that they like. I like many mainstream things things as well but know that usually the more "hardcore"of any activity that goes mainstream are left behind. Thats why I laugh when I see storeslike"Hot Topic" in the mall and realize that the nonconformity that was (and is) supposedly held by the counterculture is now sold at the corporate mall.
So...Idk... But I see his point and dont think its a knock against anyone.
Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Sounds arrogant to me too. Another of those "I'm better than you all because I play other games than you do" posts, quite usual from that poster. People who post that don't realize they post about a video game, and that the people that they belittle that way may be (for instance) the doctor who will one day save their life. But yeah, he's not playing those "snob" games, so he's an inferior, less intelligent being.
I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
The way it's worded, it's insulting towards those who don't play those "holy grail" games. It's clearly said in his (her?) post that he (she?) thinks they are lesser human beings, less intelligent, unable to appreciate those "masterpieces".
It's already arrogant generally, but even more when you talk about what is just a video GAME.
As I said, among those MMO gamers he (she?) spits on that way, there are people who are more intelligent than him/her, who have a better real life pay than him/her. Hell, my raid leader during WotLK was a PHD in some Mathematical stuff about materials I'm unable to understand the beginning of.
So yeah, when I see some video game forum poster saying that people who don't play the same "holy grail" games than he/she does are inferior beings, and if you read the post carefully, that's exactly what is said specially at the end of the message.
Posts like that give a bad name to "MMO vets" I'm actually part of. To me, it's exactly the same snobs you find for every other cultural content, be it movies, paintings, books, music... they look down on anyone not adhering to their "high standards".
Maybe- But for the record I think the games one likes has little to to do with intellect. My Mother is extremely intelligent and worked in academia where she was well respected and she never could understand the games I enjoyed but thought they were dumb... But she plays freaking facebook games like lucky gems or whatever the hell it is. My wife is probably more intelligent than I am and she plays Ipod games that arent even games but decorating skinner boxes with all the depth of a sunday morning jesus cartoon.
-Its just different tastes. I love heavy stats, complex character creation, hardcore strategy, games than many would call "second jobs" but tome they are a blast. I am in the minority. Liking complexity in gaming and intellect are only linked in rudimentary ways- So my point was never to insinuate a choice in games (or anything else) is indicative to IQ. I consider myself pretty intelligent and I like some of the most stupid, crude cartoons that are made. So....
I would also add that I loved WOW and had a blast with it even though it was probably single handedly the biggest reason for the change that I cannot stand.
ADD- I hear people say that all the time about "bitter vets" but there are idiots on every side of this conversation.
His arrogance Is that he is asserting that all 'old school' players have the same opinion as him so everything he says is correct, it is not. Many old school players loves the old games and love some of the new games. it's also ridiculous to say all new games are worse than old games, that's a bit like saying the music in the 80s was soooo much better than all the music now, especially when games are technology centric.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Jacxolope Originally posted by Jean-Luc_PicardOriginally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by JacxolopeOriginally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.Sounds arrogant to me too. Another of those "I'm better than you all because I play other games than you do" posts, quite usual from that poster. People who post that don't realize they post about a video game, and that the people that they belittle that way may be (for instance) the doctor who will one day save their life. But yeah, he's not playing those "snob" games, so he's an inferior, less intelligent being.I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
MMORPGs have changed to the point they are nearly unrecognizable in many ways to the "worlds" we used to have. With the tech of today, these worlds should have evolved- Rather,they devolved to find the largest pool of players as the internet became 'mainstream' and taken from the realm of the nerds. =P
MMO'RPGs' (I use RPG lightly) are a major, mainstream activity these days. The genre is more popular and making more money than ever- However, they have been streamlined to cater to the masses. This isnt a good or a bad thing, necessarily depending on your tastes) but is just a thing. To evolve and gain massive popularity MMORPGs have been forced to devolve into more action based, piecemeal, quick in and out games, almost lobby-like... They hold the interest of the masses better and thus this is the direction the genre has taken.
The same happened among CRPGs as well- Graphics became amazing but the games became very shallow. hell, MLB the show (a sports game) was more "RPG"than 95% ofthe RPGs released in the last five or so years. Even Final Fantasy, for gods sake.
However, in the last year or possibly 2 the glut and simplification of CRPGs (single player) has been filled with a plethora of awesome games with an old school vibe- Which are also selling like mad. Wasteland 2, Shadow run. FTL, POE, and many others are now catering to the needs ofthe niche that was left behind and are finding a newer audience who appreciates these type of games as well- We are in a resurgence, an INCLINE in the complexity and depth of CRPGs that has been missing fora decade or so- The CRPG world is now filled with more games of my preferred style than I have time to play- Vs the last few years where most of the "CRPGs" were action titles with little depth and stats.
I'm hoping the same happens with MMORPGs , however, I highly doubt it. This genre has become the greediest most underhanded and least creative genre in gaming- Which is very sad. It should be the most dynamic and complex.
So its not knocking anyone for liking games that they like. I like many mainstream things things as well but know that usually the more "hardcore"of any activity that goes mainstream are left behind. Thats why I laugh when I see storeslike"Hot Topic" in the mall and realize that the nonconformity that was (and is) supposedly held by the counterculture is now sold at the corporate mall.
So...Idk... But I see his point and dont think its a knock against anyone.
That's fine. You can trash talk games you don't like all day, that's what these forums are basically here for. Enbysra is trash talking the people who play them. Which is rude and against forum policy anyway.
Originally posted by Enbysra It is the worst period to be an MMORPGer of old in particular. We are the audience that wants a more intelligent MMORPG, with options to interact in and with the world, a vast world to explore, discover, traverse, and fear, stories with depth, while still having the ability to carve out our own characters' individual stories, and customize our characters' looks and playstyles. We are the audience that ranges from ages 30 up to and possibly over 80 even. We are the audience that genuinely appreciated the Tabletop / Pen&Paper RPGs, with few younger than that age range truly being introduced to and also appreciating the genre. We are the audience that is assumed to not be worth creating an MMORPG for, although a safe bet is that developers do not have what it takes to create the type of quality this audience damn well expects. But alas, this period will pass. It happens to be the best time ever for MMO gamers. Fancy graphics, shinies, solo gameplay, fast travel and simplicity are everything and anything MMO gamers could ever dream of. Masterpieces are an unnecessary objective from the developers' perspectives when the money flows like water. The MMO gamers would not appreciate such masterpieces anyway, not for their subtleties, their finer details, nor realistic thought provoking philosophical and-or intellectual conversations. No, these things would merely go to waste, unnoticed and unappreciated even if they were pointed out.
Very intelligent post- I agree 100% with everything you stated here. You just said it better.
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Sounds arrogant to me too. Another of those "I'm better than you all because I play other games than you do" posts, quite usual from that poster. People who post that don't realize they post about a video game, and that the people that they belittle that way may be (for instance) the doctor who will one day save their life. But yeah, he's not playing those "snob" games, so he's an inferior, less intelligent being.
I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
The way it's worded, it's insulting towards those who don't play those "holy grail" games. It's clearly said in his (her?) post that he (she?) thinks they are lesser human beings, less intelligent, unable to appreciate those "masterpieces".
It's already arrogant generally, but even more when you talk about what is just a video GAME.
As I said, among those MMO gamers he (she?) spits on that way, there are people who are more intelligent than him/her, who have a better real life pay than him/her. Hell, my raid leader during WotLK was a PHD in some Mathematical stuff about materials I'm unable to understand the beginning of.
So yeah, when I see some video game forum poster saying that people who don't play the same "holy grail" games than he/she does are inferior beings, and if you read the post carefully, that's exactly what is said specially at the end of the message.
Posts like that give a bad name to "MMO vets" I'm actually part of. To me, it's exactly the same snobs you find for every other cultural content, be it movies, paintings, books, music... they look down on anyone not adhering to their "high standards".
Edit and PS: by the way, do you realize that post could easily be reverted? One could say "those bitter vets are unable to appreciate today's masterpieces, they are old farts stuck in their aged, crappy games they don't even play anymore but see through heavily rose colored glasses". How does that sound to you? Yeah, thought so.
But that's always the way isn't it? I, I, I, Me, Me Me, everything else is just window dressing. So some of us got to play MMORPGs at an earlier time than others. And a smaller some of us remember a time when such a thing as MMORPGs or what the younger people of today like to think of as the internet, didn't exist.
So... Fucking ... What?
How does that make us better? How does that make us more discerning? News flash! It fucking doesn't! We were just lucky, or, unlucky, enough to be born at a certain time. The hard truth is things change, and time moves like a river. You can't go back, let alone cross the same water twice. Due to a thing called progress, the games some of us loved a few years ago have moved on, leaving us in the lurch. Don't like it? Well tough shit as that's how the nature of life works. "Ain't nothing ever as good as we want it to be." Though for some reason a majority of old time gamers think that time should stand still only for them when it comes to games, when everywhere else it never ever does. My advice to you, and if I'm honest, myself as well, is to get over yourselves. The world has moved on, as it always does. Trying to hamstring progress to benefit we small demographic of dinosaurs is not only unfair the majority of gamers who aren't stuck in the past, but is massively delusional and breathtakingly arrogant as well.
We've had our time in the sun. It seems only fair to let the next generation have theirs as well.
I feel there is so much wrong on so many levels with your reasoning, although I dont disagree with the your overall point.
So what? Well, there is still room for games to cater to different tastes, right? And our opinions and $$$ still matters. If the attitude we all had was similar to yours we wouldnt be having the resurgence in old school style CRPGs with newer, better tech and UI- We are in the heyday of CRPGs because of the old bitter vets... And a newer audience is being reached now that the tech isnt 15 years old and the UI is made for more than a one button mouse.
I played Might and magic 10 for christs sake-After how many years of that IP being dead? And it rocked. I'm glad everyone hasnt "just moved on" or I would be playing nothing but Final Fantasy X-2 and shit.
And where should this be discussed if not for a forum dedicated to MMORPGs? Should I call Congress?
And "ME ME ME" sounds like the people telling us tro "move on"- You have your games you love why fuck with my tastes which are under represented. Thats a terrible attitude. There is room for all types of games and all types of gamers.
So... the games of old were for more "intelligent gamers" is what I'm reading?
I played those games when I was like 16-21, and I was certainly a lot more of an idiot back then.
WoW rotations and stat priorities and boss strategies etc. are 100x more complex than anything I was doing in UO back in '99
I also find it funny how many people seem to have bought into the "publishers are evil, kickstarter is the way to go! People get a direct say! No publishers making decisions for developers! YEAH!"
When 3/4th's of the hate on this site is aimed at... the developers.
So now you want to give these guys even more control and power with no oversight?
You must have a LOT of faith in these developers...
Which is even more funny because why are they working on this new DIY Kickstarter game when their previous title was soooo good? Why aren't you playing that? Or why aren't they still working there?
So... the games of old were for more "intelligent gamers" is what I'm reading?
I played those games when I was like 16-21, and I was certainly a lot more of an idiot back then.
WoW rotations and stat priorities and boss strategies etc. are 100x more complex than anything I was doing in UO back in '99
I also find it funny how many people seem to have bought into the "publishers are evil, kickstarter is the way to go! People get a direct say! No publishers making decisions for developers! YEAH!"
When 3/4th's of the hate on this site is aimed at... the developers.
So now you want to give these guys even more control and power with no oversight?
You must have a LOT of faith in these developers...
Which is even more funny because why are they working on this new DIY Kickstarter game when their previous title was soooo good? Why aren't you playing that? Or why aren't they still working there?
in the 80-90s the average gaming age was in the teens, in 2015 i would guess its in the 30's for mmorpg's. We are older and more intelligent and we obviously expect more sophisticated games now, pacman was great, it is not now, as is grinding rats endlessly for xp (although sometimes is nice)
RE MMORPG I remember vanilla wow with fond glorious memories, but I can also reflect on that and be aware that the majority of the quests were kill 10 rats, or take a package to town B, or find spot X. Things move on, or they should do if the owner of the game cares enough.
Re developers, they are not the evil, its companies being overly beholden to shareholders - its no different from the problems in the corporate world. Greed without passion for quality and genuinely caring about the customer results in trash and double talk. Games like this do not move on, and that's the real evil if we are to use such a word.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
MMOs are changing, people have less time and so MMOs are going to be hopefully be more casual to cater to this new Audience, or you will see them fail. Casual does not imply the following;
Easy Difficulty
Less Content
Less activities
Less Mechanics
Less Depth in any regard.
F2P
It means that you can pickup and play when you want and always feel like you progress. There are simply too many games and not enough time for a game to feasibly survive from the hardcore crowd anymore. Sandbox crafters/exploration/pvp MMOs are the future. Grindy games where if I have 2400 hours played and you have 120 means that I destroy you, simply won't work anymore.
Cash shops that sell power (especially permanent) won't fly anymore and this was an experiment that has been tried and tried again in different forms and will never work. Once you've made someone feel they need to spend money in order to compete, no matter if they put in some serious playtime or not, you've essentially killed your own game. MMOs need to find a way to turn profits without nickel and diming (and yes subscriptions feel like nickel and diming to me and to many people). I am currently subscribed to PSN, Hulu, Crunchyroll, I buy champions on various MOBAs and I buy games. It ALL adds up.
Games like Crowfall seem to be progressing towards both of these points, but it is way to soon to join the Hype bandwagon there.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
MMOs are changing the problem for the last 11 year or so is that the exact opposite of that is true, people have less time since when? Did days start having fewer hours? and so MMOs are going to be hopefully be more casual to cater to this new Audience new audience?, or you will see them fail. Ah yes, because all the games with shrinking playerbases, like all those casual themeparks... they're NOT failing, while hardcore games like Eve which is STILL growing... that is TOTALLY failing? Casual does not imply the following;
Easy Difficulty
Less Content
Less activities
Less Mechanics
Less Depth in any regard.
Actually, it does imply many of those things. And most casual themeparks DO have less activities and content and mechanics, by definition
It means that you can pickup and play when you want and always feel like you progress. You can do that in hardcore games too.
Your post makes little sense.
Between the lack of choices for gamers (either slowly dying AAA themeparks/WoW clones, or one or two broken indie games with no population), and the slowly dying companies (Turbine, Cryptic, Mythic, SOE, Funcom) that put all their eggs in the themepark basket to only have it fail on them...
What are you jibbering about, so your concluding that because people post on this forum no good games exist? Do you think for example people perhaps post on this forum on their way to work for example etc etc.
What about those that deny any great games exist because they can't happen to find a game to suit their needs, and then bleet on about the good old days like a senile old men.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Old has nothing to do with it, today MMO's have rude people playing, and the games are to easy, kids today like everything done for them... Not all but a lot do..
So making comments like that get on people nerve .. If it wasn't for us older gamers and developers most devs are older myself include, you kids would not have games either..
This new era is all about how much money can a company get out of you before the title is even off the ground. Heck some of these games will never see the light of day, but us gamers are now paying for their funding. The quality of mmos seems to be slowly going in the right direction in terms of variety and gameplay. Just wish the monetization of it all would take a few steps back. Buying founder's packs, premium access, extra cash shop items to stay competitive in this era isn't a good thing. Sure people are helping a company out by making them money. Wheres the content though? You have games like AA and ESO that basically took two different approaches and ended up in the same scenario. Both suffer from a lack of content and/or promises. Regardless of the period we play in I'm sure will always be looking for something better or just trying to accept what we have as functioning.
This past decade was the worst and most likely the next few years.
WOW is to blame. There is enough evidence supporting this theory, that anything else said is just opinionated garbage. We are still seeing the effects even now. Theme Park garbage streamlined for the masses. The games now are the Justin Beibers of the gaming world.
We are starting to see the trend shifting though. I doubt we will see another ESO, Wildstar or SWTOR. However, Justin Beiber is still just as popular, so i don't count out the stupidity of the masses.
No they don't , see the time people spend on the games that consume great number of time like browser games or mobile games show that they don't have less time playing.
They indeed have more thing to do , but the gaming time of people don't change.
Even though the games like browser games or mobile games look like they are small and don't consume time , the time consume of them even greater than MMOs .
We are talking about voluntary leisure activities. Not just a couple of them, but hundreds to choose from. Instead of just playing with a different type of toy in your near endless toychest, you'd rather collectively complain about how none of the hundred versions of one particular toy are perfectly designed for just you.
Yes, dude... perspective.
If the bulk of toys in that "endless toychest" consist of cheap plastic Made in China Dollar Store kyfe, don't be all shocked and awed if the kiddies be a cryin'.
But the kiddies aren't all crying, just a select group of them is.
This group prefers to play with brown rubber ducks. Most other kids (the overwhelming majority) like yellow rubber ducks, so ofcourse the yellow ducks get made, simply because they sell best.
This prompts the brown rubber duck loving kids to constantly yell "You suck! Your ducks are crap! You are stupidz!" at all the neighbors' kids who enjoy using the yellow ones.
Its more like 1 group of kids who like rubber ducks, and 1 group that likes new fancy paper mache ducks. The paper mache ducks are easier to make, and became super trendy, but don't last more than a few weeks. The old rubber duck kids can't help laughing at the dopes with their fake paper mache ducks and say, "Man it sure will be nice when this trend is over with and we can get ducks again that are actually made to last."
What is this made to last BS. Me and my friends have been playing FFXIV ARR since closed beta. How is that not lasting. It's also not the only game we're playing because we have so many choices. Games back in the day weren't made to last any more than today. There were just too few to choose from back in the day and people didn't have a choice but to stick with the same games. With so many games these days why would someone limit themselves. That's plain ignorant if you ask me.
FFXIV:ARR is a great game for those who enjoy being hamsters in the gear grind wheel.
"What are we doing today Brain? The same as we did yesterday Pinky! Trying to get new shiny gear!"
Oh the arrogance and ignorance, never ceases to amaze me.
Arrogance and Ignorance of telling the truth? Ever watch one of Yoshida's "Letter From the Producer" video presentations? What's ALWAYS the highlight of each video?
The dungeons and the new gear to grind. Say I'm lying.
ARR is "Fresh New Updated - Smaller World Strawberry Flavored WoW!"
Its nothing more than your typical Fight Club style "Single Serving Mmo solo oriented till endgame trash" that the kids love these days
More ignorance, please don't pretend to know something as truth when you clearly don't.
A solid rebuttal with facts would make a much better case instead of just flinging around the word ignorance. I played the game since Beta and recently stopped again because of the lack of depth in the world. Offering things like "Gold Saucer" which is nothing but a casino house offers nothing as far as depth. Sorry but FFXIV:ARR in depth is like comparing FFXIII to FFVI, no comparison, and even less comparison when you compare it to the first FFT. So spare me with the "you're" ignorant shaming tactics. I've been playing this series since the NES and Nintendo Power, so I know what I'm talking about, the world design of FFXI makes FFXIV look like one of those paper mache ducks Dullahan was talking about..
So as I've said, its nothing but updated WoW, a good updated WoW but even less world depth - Hell Vanilla WoW's oceans and sea monsters for example.
Now, please refute my points with facts and valid points to counter what I'm saying. Thanks
I havent touched a battle class in 2 months. Refute that. You clearly have no idea and you ARE ignorant to the fact that just because you don't consider it content and something else to do besides your one track minded end game or die conclusion does't make it true. And what does your experience with the series have to do with any of this. It doesn't make you any less ignorant than you currently are. I'm sure opening your eyes to your clear bias is hard but learn to accept the fact that everyone plays these games differently and enjoys it differently and FFXIV ARR is not just a one trick pony like you say it is. And that's the TRUTH.
You choose to play that way it's fine but don't be throwing out nonsense that that's all their is about the game when you ignore the other large percentage of other things the game has to offer.
I mentioned several facets of the different types of gameplay and guess what? I've had better
See what you're not getting is that I've seen and have experienced Square's best, and FFXIV ain't it. I'm not some new mmo virgin who gets hyped over mediocrity because I don't know what their best is or some Johnny Come Lately who considers themself a FF fan because you started playing the series on FF7 on the Playstation for the first time ever.
Dude I've been with this series since canoes on rivers, volcano dungeons, having your own galleon and Cecil, Kane and Kefka. Again I'm glad you enjoy the game. Me I look at it more like "You guys aren't trying hard enough because you've lost your glory." And compared to the systems that they had in XI that gave the world actual DEPTH (say it with me) XIV is a letdown.
But it sure is pretteh.../yawn
Bottom line is that its very accessible and good for what it does. Entertains casuals. Fresh p**sy is fantastic if you've never had it before. Especially when she uses her tongue half way decent. For me I need a bit more than tongue twisting to curl my toes nowadays, been there done that.
But I'm glad you like it.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I mentioned several facets of the different types of gameplay and guess what? I've had better
See what you're not getting is that I've seen and have experienced Square's best, and FFXIV ain't it. I'm not some new mmo virgin who gets hyped over mediocrity because I don't know what their best is or some Johnny Come Lately who considers themself a FF fan because you started playing the series on FF7 on the Playstation for the first time ever.
Dude I've been with this series since canoes on rivers, volcano dungeons, having your own galleon and Cecil, Kane and Kefka. Again I'm glad you enjoy the game. Me I look at it more like "You guys aren't trying hard enough because you've lost your glory." And compared to the systems that they had in XI that gave the world actual DEPTH (say it with me) XIV is a letdown.
But it sure is pretteh.../yawn
Bottom line is that its very accessible and good for what it does. Entertains casuals. Fresh p**sy is fantastic if you've never had it before. Especially when she uses her tongue half way decent. For me I need a bit more than tongue twisting to curl my toes nowadays, been there done that.
But I'm glad you like it.
You actually haven't had any better, you're just an old man speaking old people things.
Based on the posts you could be anyone's (pervy) grandpa. A remarkable achievement considering your true age is so misleading.
"Back in My days..."
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
No they don't , see the time people spend on the games that consume great number of time like browser games or mobile games show that they don't have less time playing.
They indeed have more thing to do , but the gaming time of people don't change.
Even though the games like browser games or mobile games look like they are small and don't consume time , the time consume of them even greater than MMOs .
People have less time to dedicate to a game in one sitting. Most oldschool MMOs demanded you sit there for hours to get anything done. This is unacceptable. People also don't want the game to dictate how much one should play it for meaningful progress. Yes, people might play just as much, but they also demand more flexibility out of that playtime (and rightfully so). Browser/mobile games are the perfect example of pick up and play.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Well, let's have it. -- Do you think this is the least prolific period in the MMO/RPG - Markets? I know it's always a sitaution where we the gamers feel like we are ALWAYS waiting for the next title to deliver.
- However, have we come full circle to both the realization there simply is no title worth waiting for, and we will always be left without what we desire. More over- What about what is currently out. I look over my rather impressive collections of MMOs, and only 1-2 even seem like something i would want to play right now (GW2, FF14) - And neither are games i really -want- to play, but rather in the void of having nothing else to play, they are sufficent time-wasters, i don't really care to play them or not. -- So what happened, do you feel like this is a down-trodden period in the MMO industry, do you think it will recover? -- I'm personally tired of the waiting on "xy" title, and becoming instantly disgusted with the poor tactics employed in the deployment of the game that ends up leaving me right back to waiting on the next title. Can we stick a fork in it, and call it done?
Please understand that your own attitude, biases and baggage have just as much weight in your enjoyment of modern MMOs as the quality of said MMOs themselves.
Nobody else is responsible for your own (MMO) misery.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
We are talking about voluntary leisure activities. Not just a couple of them, but hundreds to choose from. Instead of just playing with a different type of toy in your near endless toychest, you'd rather collectively complain about how none of the hundred versions of one particular toy are perfectly designed for just you.
Yes, dude... perspective.
If the bulk of toys in that "endless toychest" consist of cheap plastic Made in China Dollar Store kyfe, don't be all shocked and awed if the kiddies be a cryin'.
But the kiddies aren't all crying, just a select group of them is.
This group prefers to play with brown rubber ducks. Most other kids (the overwhelming majority) like yellow rubber ducks, so ofcourse the yellow ducks get made, simply because they sell best.
This prompts the brown rubber duck loving kids to constantly yell "You suck! Your ducks are crap! You are stupidz!" at all the neighbors' kids who enjoy using the yellow ones.
Its more like 1 group of kids who like rubber ducks, and 1 group that likes new fancy paper mache ducks. The paper mache ducks are easier to make, and became super trendy, but don't last more than a few weeks. The old rubber duck kids can't help laughing at the dopes with their fake paper mache ducks and say, "Man it sure will be nice when this trend is over with and we can get ducks again that are actually made to last."
What is this made to last BS. Me and my friends have been playing FFXIV ARR since closed beta. How is that not lasting. It's also not the only game we're playing because we have so many choices. Games back in the day weren't made to last any more than today. There were just too few to choose from back in the day and people didn't have a choice but to stick with the same games. With so many games these days why would someone limit themselves. That's plain ignorant if you ask me.
FFXIV:ARR is a great game for those who enjoy being hamsters in the gear grind wheel.
"What are we doing today Brain? The same as we did yesterday Pinky! Trying to get new shiny gear!"
Oh the arrogance and ignorance, never ceases to amaze me.
Arrogance and Ignorance of telling the truth? Ever watch one of Yoshida's "Letter From the Producer" video presentations? What's ALWAYS the highlight of each video?
The dungeons and the new gear to grind. Say I'm lying.
ARR is "Fresh New Updated - Smaller World Strawberry Flavored WoW!"
Its nothing more than your typical Fight Club style "Single Serving Mmo solo oriented till endgame trash" that the kids love these days
More ignorance, please don't pretend to know something as truth when you clearly don't.
A solid rebuttal with facts would make a much better case instead of just flinging around the word ignorance. I played the game since Beta and recently stopped again because of the lack of depth in the world. Offering things like "Gold Saucer" which is nothing but a casino house offers nothing as far as depth. Sorry but FFXIV:ARR in depth is like comparing FFXIII to FFVI, no comparison, and even less comparison when you compare it to the first FFT. So spare me with the "you're" ignorant shaming tactics. I've been playing this series since the NES and Nintendo Power, so I know what I'm talking about, the world design of FFXI makes FFXIV look like one of those paper mache ducks Dullahan was talking about..
So as I've said, its nothing but updated WoW, a good updated WoW but even less world depth - Hell Vanilla WoW's oceans and sea monsters for example.
Now, please refute my points with facts and valid points to counter what I'm saying. Thanks
I havent touched a battle class in 2 months. Refute that. You clearly have no idea and you ARE ignorant to the fact that just because you don't consider it content and something else to do besides your one track minded end game or die conclusion does't make it true. And what does your experience with the series have to do with any of this. It doesn't make you any less ignorant than you currently are. I'm sure opening your eyes to your clear bias is hard but learn to accept the fact that everyone plays these games differently and enjoys it differently and FFXIV ARR is not just a one trick pony like you say it is. And that's the TRUTH.
You choose to play that way it's fine but don't be throwing out nonsense that that's all their is about the game when you ignore the other large percentage of other things the game has to offer.
I mentioned several facets of the different types of gameplay and guess what? I've had better
See what you're not getting is that I've seen and have experienced Square's best, and FFXIV ain't it. I'm not some new mmo virgin who gets hyped over mediocrity because I don't know what their best is or some Johnny Come Lately who considers themself a FF fan because you started playing the series on FF7 on the Playstation for the first time ever.
Dude I've been with this series since canoes on rivers, volcano dungeons, having your own galleon and Cecil, Kane and Kefka. Again I'm glad you enjoy the game. Me I look at it more like "You guys aren't trying hard enough because you've lost your glory." And compared to the systems that they had in XI that gave the world actual DEPTH (say it with me) XIV is a letdown.
But it sure is pretteh.../yawn
Bottom line is that its very accessible and good for what it does. Entertains casuals. Fresh p**sy is fantastic if you've never had it before. Especially when she uses her tongue half way decent. For me I need a bit more than tongue twisting to curl my toes nowadays, been there done that.
But I'm glad you like it.
LOL, you act like you're the only one that have experienced everything Square. The arrogance in you is just astounding. Who said that fresh p***y won't stay fresh forever. She can be the love of your life. It's more like you can't see pass that fresh p**y syndrome, and so narrow minded that you can't see everything else she has to offer. Such stupid BS if I've ever seen any.
Some little advice. Live a little and stop living in the small soapbox little world that you live it. There is a whole world to see.
Well, let's have it. -- Do you think this is the least prolific period in the MMO/RPG - Markets? I know it's always a sitaution where we the gamers feel like we are ALWAYS waiting for the next title to deliver.
- However, have we come full circle to both the realization there simply is no title worth waiting for, and we will always be left without what we desire. More over- What about what is currently out. I look over my rather impressive collections of MMOs, and only 1-2 even seem like something i would want to play right now (GW2, FF14) - And neither are games i really -want- to play, but rather in the void of having nothing else to play, they are sufficent time-wasters, i don't really care to play them or not. -- So what happened, do you feel like this is a down-trodden period in the MMO industry, do you think it will recover? -- I'm personally tired of the waiting on "xy" title, and becoming instantly disgusted with the poor tactics employed in the deployment of the game that ends up leaving me right back to waiting on the next title. Can we stick a fork in it, and call it done?
I think we are in a golden age for mmos. There are several recentish AAA mmo titles that each in their own way represent pinnacles of the mmo genre, successfully drawing on and refining elements of past mmos and adding something new to the genre.
Its actually a crowded space right now exactly because there are so many great mmos out, but even so we have some very interesting indie mmos on the horizon, which look to evolve the genre further, and a powerhouse of amazing artists and designers in Asia that continue to produce amazing work.
This actually has to be one of the most prolific periods in mmo history, with amazing AAA titles being churned out virtually every year, we had like 2 or 3 major titles released last year alone and these games are meant to be played for long periods of time.
What you describe in your OP is not a problem with mmos, but a personal issue for you. It is very human nature to want something then be dissatisfied when you get it. Perhaps you just don't like mmos anymore if all the games you play don't hit it off for you.
If you think mmos are in a bad state now, pray tell when they were in their prime.
Well, let's have it. -- Do you think this is the least prolific period in the MMO/RPG - Markets? I know it's always a sitaution where we the gamers feel like we are ALWAYS waiting for the next title to deliver.
- However, have we come full circle to both the realization there simply is no title worth waiting for, and we will always be left without what we desire. More over- What about what is currently out. I look over my rather impressive collections of MMOs, and only 1-2 even seem like something i would want to play right now (GW2, FF14) - And neither are games i really -want- to play, but rather in the void of having nothing else to play, they are sufficent time-wasters, i don't really care to play them or not. -- So what happened, do you feel like this is a down-trodden period in the MMO industry, do you think it will recover? -- I'm personally tired of the waiting on "xy" title, and becoming instantly disgusted with the poor tactics employed in the deployment of the game that ends up leaving me right back to waiting on the next title. Can we stick a fork in it, and call it done?
I think we are in a golden age for mmos. There are several recentish AAA mmo titles that each in their own way represent pinnacles of the mmo genre, successfully drawing on and refining elements of past mmos and adding something new to the genre.
If you think mmos are in a bad state now, pray tell when they were in their prime.
We have stated when. Generally, pre 2004.
And what new features have AAA MMOs brought to us? Pinnacle? What?
How can this be the best time to be an MMO gamer, if the only type of AAA MMO being made is the WoW clone, that ONLY appeals to people who like WoW/casual themeparks?
When was better? Gee, maybe when we had about 2 dozen AA projects all serving distinct niches, and slowly growing and pleasing their playerbases?
Comments
I thought the same thing, being somebody who played tabletop since the early 80's, enjoyed MUD's, tried UO and EQ and found them so excruciatingly dull that I went BACK to MUD's until SWG-JtL came out...
...and is pretty happy with MMO options, today. Could they be better? Sure. No one has yet read my mind and built the exact game I want, and unlike the poster above, I accept and realize that if someone did, it wouldn't necessarily be a success.
The good news for them though, is that it would be pretty cheap to make a new game like UO or EQ, today.
But still, this whole, "I'm a REAL gamer cuz I liked those games and don't like the new stuff" attitude just reeks of stupid.
I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
MMORPGs have changed to the point they are nearly unrecognizable in many ways to the "worlds" we used to have. With the tech of today, these worlds should have evolved- Rather,they devolved to find the largest pool of players as the internet became 'mainstream' and taken from the realm of the nerds. =P
MMO'RPGs' (I use RPG lightly) are a major, mainstream activity these days. The genre is more popular and making more money than ever- However, they have been streamlined to cater to the masses. This isnt a good or a bad thing, necessarily depending on your tastes) but is just a thing. To evolve and gain massive popularity MMORPGs have been forced to devolve into more action based, piecemeal, quick in and out games, almost lobby-like... They hold the interest of the masses better and thus this is the direction the genre has taken.
The same happened among CRPGs as well- Graphics became amazing but the games became very shallow. hell, MLB the show (a sports game) was more "RPG"than 95% ofthe RPGs released in the last five or so years. Even Final Fantasy, for gods sake.
However, in the last year or possibly 2 the glut and simplification of CRPGs (single player) has been filled with a plethora of awesome games with an old school vibe- Which are also selling like mad. Wasteland 2, Shadow run. FTL, POE, and many others are now catering to the needs ofthe niche that was left behind and are finding a newer audience who appreciates these type of games as well- We are in a resurgence, an INCLINE in the complexity and depth of CRPGs that has been missing fora decade or so- The CRPG world is now filled with more games of my preferred style than I have time to play- Vs the last few years where most of the "CRPGs" were action titles with little depth and stats.
I'm hoping the same happens with MMORPGs , however, I highly doubt it. This genre has become the greediest most underhanded and least creative genre in gaming- Which is very sad. It should be the most dynamic and complex.
So its not knocking anyone for liking games that they like. I like many mainstream things things as well but know that usually the more "hardcore"of any activity that goes mainstream are left behind. Thats why I laugh when I see storeslike"Hot Topic" in the mall and realize that the nonconformity that was (and is) supposedly held by the counterculture is now sold at the corporate mall.
So...Idk... But I see his point and dont think its a knock against anyone.
Maybe- But for the record I think the games one likes has little to to do with intellect. My Mother is extremely intelligent and worked in academia where she was well respected and she never could understand the games I enjoyed but thought they were dumb... But she plays freaking facebook games like lucky gems or whatever the hell it is. My wife is probably more intelligent than I am and she plays Ipod games that arent even games but decorating skinner boxes with all the depth of a sunday morning jesus cartoon.
-Its just different tastes. I love heavy stats, complex character creation, hardcore strategy, games than many would call "second jobs" but tome they are a blast. I am in the minority. Liking complexity in gaming and intellect are only linked in rudimentary ways- So my point was never to insinuate a choice in games (or anything else) is indicative to IQ. I consider myself pretty intelligent and I like some of the most stupid, crude cartoons that are made. So....
I would also add that I loved WOW and had a blast with it even though it was probably single handedly the biggest reason for the change that I cannot stand.
ADD- I hear people say that all the time about "bitter vets" but there are idiots on every side of this conversation.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Really? Seemed like a bunch of pretentious bullshit to me.
Sounds arrogant to me too. Another of those "I'm better than you all because I play other games than you do" posts, quite usual from that poster. People who post that don't realize they post about a video game, and that the people that they belittle that way may be (for instance) the doctor who will one day save their life. But yeah, he's not playing those "snob" games, so he's an inferior, less intelligent being.
I disagree. I dont think hes being arrogant nor pretentious, rather honest in the way he (and I ) see things.
MMORPGs have changed to the point they are nearly unrecognizable in many ways to the "worlds" we used to have. With the tech of today, these worlds should have evolved- Rather,they devolved to find the largest pool of players as the internet became 'mainstream' and taken from the realm of the nerds. =P
MMO'RPGs' (I use RPG lightly) are a major, mainstream activity these days. The genre is more popular and making more money than ever- However, they have been streamlined to cater to the masses. This isnt a good or a bad thing, necessarily depending on your tastes) but is just a thing. To evolve and gain massive popularity MMORPGs have been forced to devolve into more action based, piecemeal, quick in and out games, almost lobby-like... They hold the interest of the masses better and thus this is the direction the genre has taken.
The same happened among CRPGs as well- Graphics became amazing but the games became very shallow. hell, MLB the show (a sports game) was more "RPG"than 95% ofthe RPGs released in the last five or so years. Even Final Fantasy, for gods sake.
However, in the last year or possibly 2 the glut and simplification of CRPGs (single player) has been filled with a plethora of awesome games with an old school vibe- Which are also selling like mad. Wasteland 2, Shadow run. FTL, POE, and many others are now catering to the needs ofthe niche that was left behind and are finding a newer audience who appreciates these type of games as well- We are in a resurgence, an INCLINE in the complexity and depth of CRPGs that has been missing fora decade or so- The CRPG world is now filled with more games of my preferred style than I have time to play- Vs the last few years where most of the "CRPGs" were action titles with little depth and stats.
I'm hoping the same happens with MMORPGs , however, I highly doubt it. This genre has become the greediest most underhanded and least creative genre in gaming- Which is very sad. It should be the most dynamic and complex.
So its not knocking anyone for liking games that they like. I like many mainstream things things as well but know that usually the more "hardcore"of any activity that goes mainstream are left behind. Thats why I laugh when I see storeslike"Hot Topic" in the mall and realize that the nonconformity that was (and is) supposedly held by the counterculture is now sold at the corporate mall.
So...Idk... But I see his point and dont think its a knock against anyone.
That's fine. You can trash talk games you don't like all day, that's what these forums are basically here for. Enbysra is trash talking the people who play them. Which is rude and against forum policy anyway.
I feel there is so much wrong on so many levels with your reasoning, although I dont disagree with the your overall point.
So what? Well, there is still room for games to cater to different tastes, right? And our opinions and $$$ still matters. If the attitude we all had was similar to yours we wouldnt be having the resurgence in old school style CRPGs with newer, better tech and UI- We are in the heyday of CRPGs because of the old bitter vets... And a newer audience is being reached now that the tech isnt 15 years old and the UI is made for more than a one button mouse.
I played Might and magic 10 for christs sake-After how many years of that IP being dead? And it rocked. I'm glad everyone hasnt "just moved on" or I would be playing nothing but Final Fantasy X-2 and shit.
And where should this be discussed if not for a forum dedicated to MMORPGs? Should I call Congress?
And "ME ME ME" sounds like the people telling us tro "move on"- You have your games you love why fuck with my tastes which are under represented. Thats a terrible attitude. There is room for all types of games and all types of gamers.
So... the games of old were for more "intelligent gamers" is what I'm reading?
I played those games when I was like 16-21, and I was certainly a lot more of an idiot back then.
WoW rotations and stat priorities and boss strategies etc. are 100x more complex than anything I was doing in UO back in '99
I also find it funny how many people seem to have bought into the "publishers are evil, kickstarter is the way to go! People get a direct say! No publishers making decisions for developers! YEAH!"
When 3/4th's of the hate on this site is aimed at... the developers.
So now you want to give these guys even more control and power with no oversight?
You must have a LOT of faith in these developers...
Which is even more funny because why are they working on this new DIY Kickstarter game when their previous title was soooo good? Why aren't you playing that? Or why aren't they still working there?
in the 80-90s the average gaming age was in the teens, in 2015 i would guess its in the 30's for mmorpg's. We are older and more intelligent and we obviously expect more sophisticated games now, pacman was great, it is not now, as is grinding rats endlessly for xp (although sometimes is nice)
RE MMORPG I remember vanilla wow with fond glorious memories, but I can also reflect on that and be aware that the majority of the quests were kill 10 rats, or take a package to town B, or find spot X. Things move on, or they should do if the owner of the game cares enough.
Re developers, they are not the evil, its companies being overly beholden to shareholders - its no different from the problems in the corporate world. Greed without passion for quality and genuinely caring about the customer results in trash and double talk. Games like this do not move on, and that's the real evil if we are to use such a word.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
MMOs are changing, people have less time and so MMOs are going to be hopefully be more casual to cater to this new Audience, or you will see them fail. Casual does not imply the following;
Easy Difficulty
Less Content
Less activities
Less Mechanics
Less Depth in any regard.
F2P
It means that you can pickup and play when you want and always feel like you progress. There are simply too many games and not enough time for a game to feasibly survive from the hardcore crowd anymore. Sandbox crafters/exploration/pvp MMOs are the future. Grindy games where if I have 2400 hours played and you have 120 means that I destroy you, simply won't work anymore.
Cash shops that sell power (especially permanent) won't fly anymore and this was an experiment that has been tried and tried again in different forms and will never work. Once you've made someone feel they need to spend money in order to compete, no matter if they put in some serious playtime or not, you've essentially killed your own game. MMOs need to find a way to turn profits without nickel and diming (and yes subscriptions feel like nickel and diming to me and to many people). I am currently subscribed to PSN, Hulu, Crunchyroll, I buy champions on various MOBAs and I buy games. It ALL adds up.
Games like Crowfall seem to be progressing towards both of these points, but it is way to soon to join the Hype bandwagon there.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Your post makes little sense.
Between the lack of choices for gamers (either slowly dying AAA themeparks/WoW clones, or one or two broken indie games with no population), and the slowly dying companies (Turbine, Cryptic, Mythic, SOE, Funcom) that put all their eggs in the themepark basket to only have it fail on them...
Not a very good time for anyone.
What about those that deny any great games exist because they can't happen to find a game to suit their needs, and then bleet on about the good old days like a senile old men.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Old has nothing to do with it, today MMO's have rude people playing, and the games are to easy, kids today like everything done for them... Not all but a lot do..
So making comments like that get on people nerve .. If it wasn't for us older gamers and developers most devs are older myself include, you kids would not have games either..
This past decade was the worst and most likely the next few years.
WOW is to blame. There is enough evidence supporting this theory, that anything else said is just opinionated garbage. We are still seeing the effects even now. Theme Park garbage streamlined for the masses. The games now are the Justin Beibers of the gaming world.
We are starting to see the trend shifting though. I doubt we will see another ESO, Wildstar or SWTOR. However, Justin Beiber is still just as popular, so i don't count out the stupidity of the masses.
No they don't , see the time people spend on the games that consume great number of time like browser games or mobile games show that they don't have less time playing.
They indeed have more thing to do , but the gaming time of people don't change.
Even though the games like browser games or mobile games look like they are small and don't consume time , the time consume of them even greater than MMOs .
I mentioned several facets of the different types of gameplay and guess what? I've had better
See what you're not getting is that I've seen and have experienced Square's best, and FFXIV ain't it. I'm not some new mmo virgin who gets hyped over mediocrity because I don't know what their best is or some Johnny Come Lately who considers themself a FF fan because you started playing the series on FF7 on the Playstation for the first time ever.
Dude I've been with this series since canoes on rivers, volcano dungeons, having your own galleon and Cecil, Kane and Kefka. Again I'm glad you enjoy the game. Me I look at it more like "You guys aren't trying hard enough because you've lost your glory." And compared to the systems that they had in XI that gave the world actual DEPTH (say it with me) XIV is a letdown.
But it sure is pretteh.../yawn
Bottom line is that its very accessible and good for what it does. Entertains casuals. Fresh p**sy is fantastic if you've never had it before. Especially when she uses her tongue half way decent. For me I need a bit more than tongue twisting to curl my toes nowadays, been there done that.
But I'm glad you like it.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
You actually haven't had any better, you're just an old man speaking old people things.
Based on the posts you could be anyone's (pervy) grandpa. A remarkable achievement considering your true age is so misleading.
"Back in My days..."
People have less time to dedicate to a game in one sitting. Most oldschool MMOs demanded you sit there for hours to get anything done. This is unacceptable. People also don't want the game to dictate how much one should play it for meaningful progress. Yes, people might play just as much, but they also demand more flexibility out of that playtime (and rightfully so). Browser/mobile games are the perfect example of pick up and play.
Please understand that your own attitude, biases and baggage have just as much weight in your enjoyment of modern MMOs as the quality of said MMOs themselves.
Nobody else is responsible for your own (MMO) misery.
LOL, you act like you're the only one that have experienced everything Square. The arrogance in you is just astounding. Who said that fresh p***y won't stay fresh forever. She can be the love of your life. It's more like you can't see pass that fresh p**y syndrome, and so narrow minded that you can't see everything else she has to offer. Such stupid BS if I've ever seen any.
Some little advice. Live a little and stop living in the small soapbox little world that you live it. There is a whole world to see.
I think we are in a golden age for mmos. There are several recentish AAA mmo titles that each in their own way represent pinnacles of the mmo genre, successfully drawing on and refining elements of past mmos and adding something new to the genre.
Its actually a crowded space right now exactly because there are so many great mmos out, but even so we have some very interesting indie mmos on the horizon, which look to evolve the genre further, and a powerhouse of amazing artists and designers in Asia that continue to produce amazing work.
This actually has to be one of the most prolific periods in mmo history, with amazing AAA titles being churned out virtually every year, we had like 2 or 3 major titles released last year alone and these games are meant to be played for long periods of time.
What you describe in your OP is not a problem with mmos, but a personal issue for you. It is very human nature to want something then be dissatisfied when you get it. Perhaps you just don't like mmos anymore if all the games you play don't hit it off for you.
If you think mmos are in a bad state now, pray tell when they were in their prime.
We have stated when. Generally, pre 2004.
And what new features have AAA MMOs brought to us? Pinnacle? What?
How can this be the best time to be an MMO gamer, if the only type of AAA MMO being made is the WoW clone, that ONLY appeals to people who like WoW/casual themeparks?
When was better? Gee, maybe when we had about 2 dozen AA projects all serving distinct niches, and slowly growing and pleasing their playerbases?
Publishers have bailed on this genre for a reason
I've stepped away from mmo's (ESO was my last and very bitter disappointment). I've moved to single player rpg's. Currently playing THE WITCHER.
In the future, I have hopes for CAMELOT UNCHAINED.