Kind of like the people who post large images or signatures because they have nothing of importance to put into words. When your posts exceed the size of your signature you can give us some valuable input. What an ultra cool nickname you have - good thing you gave it to us twice so that we won't forget it - please tell me you have it tattooed on your arm for the world to know your contribution to the planet.
There's a good phrase for that - if you can't' improve the silence, zip it up. Grown folks are talking.
Or if you prefer something long enough to lose your attention span.... here we go.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. Author: Unknown
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Kind of like the people who post large images or signatures because they have nothing of importance to put into words. When your posts exceed the size of your signature you can give us some valuable input. What an ultra cool nickname you have - good thing you gave it to us twice so that we won't forget it - please tell me you have it tattooed on your arm for the world to know your contribution to the planet.
There's a good phrase for that - if you can't' improve the silence, zip it up. Grown folks are talking.
Or if you prefer something long enough to lose your attention span.... here we go.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. Author: Unknown
Oh no you just did not post a blank msg - shakes fist like old person.
There was a reply in there when i hit post. Not sure where it went. I guess bedtime for me, as well.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You should never look down on someone because of their race, creed, religion, or socioeconomic status. Value is an internal quality.
There is an entire field of law devoted to concerns of the poor. There's relatively little money in it, but many lawyers choose to do pro bono work in it because they find it to be rewarding. Regarding WIC (Women - Infants - Children), food stamps (EBT), perpetuating the condition of the poor: that has been largely debunked (Brodie, Stanford University, 2014). That's not to say it doesn't get abused, but to say that the poor are responsible for being poor because they are "lazy" or should be doing better things with their time is not only heartless, but untrue.
It's more an issue of social connectivity. There is currently "profound segregation" (Brodie) among America's different classes.
As far as games go, they will be created among all people regardless. I see it as an axiom: people play games. What shape or form they take can be different depending on society. There was an article in the Economist at least a year ago about how some rural eastern cultures such as Pakistan or northern India were partly skipping the process of industrialization and moving straight into a service economy. It had a picture of a shepherd on a hillside surfing the web on a tablet.
I can't help but wonder if there isn't a similar process at work here.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
To the posters that said everything should be in a sound bite or don't post at all, well that's why the world is ruled by crooks. I'd explain... but wall of text.
Free games are welfare - keep giving them out and claim they help anyone change their situation - see how much welfare did for us.
Wait what?
Free games are what devs use trying to find the whales. It is erroneous to assume free games are offered (remember it is a free market .. no govt forces anyone to provide free games) as a charity. They are there simply because attracting some whales is a better business model that trying to using a sub-only model which severely reduces your player base.
You should probably go back and actually read the conversation before simply jumping on one statement.
Why would anyone read that wall of text. If I wanted to read a novel right now I would. This is a message board if he can't convey his thoughts in a paragraph or two I'm out. I don't want to waste my time reading his bullshit. I'm sure thats how many people feel.
In short, shorten up your post or don't post at all. As most people won't read it anyways.
The TL:DR people deserve what they get.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I didn't type saturation - I typed SATIATION. You don't even know the difference. Free to play has been saturated suggesting all the way back to 2009. You are really out of your league here with this. That one wasn't in Economics 101, hope you went further.
Good thing I'm the only one with my view huh. Yup, just me.
and no one is whaling... gasp - the accusations I make without any evidence at all...and it's no surprise they tell you to not follow Kickstarters because that's where indies would go
Some free-to-play games have producers whose entire job is to try to understand those customers, Schubert said, setting up special message boards for that sub-community of player, or letting them vote on what content should be added to a game next.
"
Look at all these words I put into other peoples mouths. I'm gifted huh.
As if being featured on South Park as a pop culture joke wasn't good enough for free to play games. That's no indication at all of player sentiment or what has leaked into the mass of society for people who don't even play games.
I already showed you almost a billion dollars loss a few mos. back and you blew it off. What more do you need - a sign from a higher power to hit you with lightning - apparently.
At least SOME people in the thread were reading things - Thanks you go getters you I'm making this argument that they are whaling and flip flop has to come in to tell me there is sand on the edge of the ocean. Go away flip flop - don't you have some flipping and flopping to do in your free games. It's funny right? It has to be laughable how many people can resist things without even reading them.
I'm not linking the last one - you are going to have to copy/paste and show effort to get that one. This isn't a free to play post. It costs some effort lol
What you hear from players is the opposite of satiation "Yeah I played GW2. It lasts a month or two then it gets old since there's not enough content." When you add up all the major MMORPG releases you realize that a month or two each isn't actually enough to sate gamers for the year (hence all the whining and unrest.)
The rest of your post spins off on a lot of strange tangents which are unrelated to what I've said. I never claimed you were the only one with a wrong opinion. Those articles represent reasonable caution though, and don't seem to support whatever point you're making (and the first one supports my decision to make fun-focused games without purely chasing after whale players.) And I have no clue where you got ".and it's no surprise they tell you to not follow Kickstarters because that's where indies would go" since my post history will show a consistent strong support for Kickstarter (you just have to be smart about which games you back.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Seeking understanding of why games are fun doesn't mean they aren't fun. It only increases your understanding of what makes games fun, for either you or for gamers generally.
Human nature -- the player -- is to blame for being unsatisfied. Most people aren't very introspective, but are at least introspective enough to realize that if today's games were released in 1997 their past-gamer-selves would have loved these games much more than the MMORPGs of the past. The genre continues to provide excellent games, though perhaps none as solid as WOW, and it's easy to ignore a handful of ultra-veterans who've spent many thousands of hours burning themselves out on the genre compared with the millions of gamers enjoying these games daily.
I wouldn't have loved the games I don't like today. You can only talk for yourself. If you longed for these sort of games can you recall a post you made about it where you did.
Why does it always lead to insults. You are a burnout if you don't like what is populous. How many millions are there who are dissatisfied. Do you expect everyone who dislikes something to take their time out to vote on polls and make posts. Do you get personal e-mails from people when they stop wearing Nikes and switch to Birkenstocks. On what planet does everyone have to chime in on everything at all times to give their personal review and heartfelt messages.
Don't you know that unhappy people often walk away from something and stop thinking about it. They move away from it and you never hear from them. They aren't EXTROspective if I can make up a word for a moment. You look around at happy millions and don't count the unhappy millions. What if... what if... everyone who left WOW at the tune of about 7 million recently were people all sick of games the way they are. It's easier to imagine they went to another game, not that they actually left the genre but you don't know what they did.
You have no headcount for those who don't talk. And those who do talk are often told to shut up and deal with it. How can you expect to ever gauge reality when you don't listen to the voices telling you what you don't want to hear. Your post to them wasn't listening, it was attempting to correct them.
Genres are by definition stagnant. A genre defines the parameters of a game. Games within a genre shift within those confines, but fundamentally aren't going to become something significantly different.
Genres are not stagnant. They only have defined properties. How those properties of the larger object are presented can change and the gameplay around them too.
Take walking around. It was enhanced with jumping and running. It became riding a mount. Which then became a flying mount. Then there were portals and fast travel. They all have one thing in common - they are properties of the action movement for the character itself. They aren't stagnant and they don't have to be - tomorrow people could walk on their hands in a game, if it's programmed that way. They weren't stagnant within the genre. They were improved upon.
A better representation of that is space. At one point your character only stayed on one plane. Then games started digging and building. With terraforming you move more directions and create planes.
What we are missing hasn't even come yet. And it won't come as long as people settle and don't speak up. But as you mention below, only the indies can bring this innovation because the corporates are tied by bean counters above them who make decisions on what is going to be made.
Beyond that MMORPGs are unusually stagnant due to being big-budget games. If innovation was your focus, you'd play tiny indie games.
The crowd is somewhat good at identifying what's good. I witness this firsthand in my work balancing videogames: units A, B, and C are competitively viable, but unit C is completely shunned by the majority of players who don't understand it's value. I witnessed this firsthand playing PS2 too: there were certain weapons deemed underpowered which were extremely unpopular, and meanwhile I'd use those weapons and do just as good as with any weapon (noticeably better in the case of burst-weapons.) In a broader sense, many genres of games have waned not because there are bad modern offerings (SC2 for RTSes) but because those genres just happen to no longer be in fashion this year.
It's complete nonsense to claim there are some who are "quite lost" without MMORPGs existing. Mankind managed to survive through all of recorded and unrecorded history up until the year 1995 when the first MMORPG (M59) was released. I'm sure they'll manage to be just fine with MMORPGs which are slightly different from their personal tastes.
It's possible you speak for thousands. It's certain that millions have spoken (more loudly: with money) of a strong preference of post-WOW style MMORPGs. To state their preference simply: they want a fun game, not a boring virtual world.
It's possible that they speak for more than thousands. It's certain too that the about 90% of those who won't pay for the games have spoken too in their groups of millions (more loudly: with withholding money) that they neither intend on, nor plan on contributing to gaming as a paid hobby. As a developer you wouldn't be too smart to overlook that you can give them a product and they still spit in your face while using it for free. Those aren't satisfied customers. Those are ground feeders, barnacles, parasites or flat out cheap skates. They don't want a "fun game", they want a "host".
Yeah so, I'm a dirty rotten scoundrel because I won't play free to play games. But you know what, I don't feed off them and use their resources without paying. They've got 90% or more of their participants telling them every day they aren't good enough to get paid and they still call it a success. Both of us dislike the free games. I just chose not to lie to them and waste either of our time pretending to like each other just because they'll buy me off by spending some bandwidth.
What you overlook is the niche game. I'd rather have 20k ppl in my game that paid me regularly than 100k there with 8k of them paying me 5.00 a month or less and the whales be someone I had to cater to and add to Skype and ask why they weren't playing this week when they are less than 10% of my population. That has already happened. Whales will build this stuff because they are willing to pay.
Funny how games can cater to the 10% when they are cash shop but not the 10% you imagine as still wanting a sub game or an innovative game? Whatever you want to use as percentage of the thousands you imagine compared to the millions imagined elsewhere. On one hand small percentages mean something, on the other somehow they lose value. They don't lose value in a niche.
The niche is just as viable as whaling. It only gets overlooked because people think that WOW numbers mean success for a sub game. NO game gets WOW numbers any longer, that fantasy needs to end. WOW was a freak of nature - it ran on a toaster - it was easy to play - it focused on small rewards and often - and compared to other games it had more polish - and it advertised so much they host their own cons - it did what it did to mainstream these games. It can't be matched in future so niche is the proper path. It's the path of the whaler and it will be the path of future sub games too.
Steam Greenlight gets it - why it hasn't made it to MMOs is their consistent need to wait for working models instead of innovating lately. The indies are going to squash them eventually if these triple A people don't stop thinking they have it all figured out. I'm reminded especially of the voiceover debacle for SWTOR. Incredible amounts were spent on that - and why - because they let corporate movie makers try to tell gamers what they wanted. They blew that money then whined afterward that subs weren't sufficient to pay back their squandering so they went free to play with sub as if sub was really the problem. The problem was they floundered their development money and while they didn't throw a Kickstarter, they expect the players to pay for it.
I hung out for awhile with the people who made Binding of Isaac on Twitch. Let me tell you - those people had more loyal fans and supporters and community than anything I saw in GW2. They had people hanging out with them, touring their house, and making them fan art and sending them things and they had plaques on their walls for the amount of games they sold. They also had people casting their game advertising it day and night and ended up in a movie about indie development. They are also cool people and down to earth and I've never bought their game but I know they know how to build community. Indies get community... and when that hits the MMOs, all this corporate shit is over.
That has been going on for years... and they still come up with viewers and players - compare it to GW2. Community is the old world for social media - remember when that existed before Facebook? Corporate dumbos think that posting to facebook is going to do something when they should be building community - ads aren't community - neither are cash shop sales. If that's all you have to say - you don't have a community.
Numbers right now on Twitch.
The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth
6,854 viewers
Guild Wars 2
743 viewers
People who want to sub should also be building this stuff - they are willing to pay. That's the bottom line. The leeches need to be removed from the equation.
The OP starts off saying folks are deluding themselves, claiming folks are delusional is a type of insult is it not? Calling folks Leeches is an insult is it not? SO before you ask Axe why folks resort to insults, why not ask the OP, or yourself?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It is really interesting of how some here talk as if MMO, some games ... no less, is the most important thing on earth, and if players need to "contribute to community" or what-not.
I think they should take it easy .. we are talking about games here. But of course it is their prerogative to be as serious as they want about MMOs, and other hobbies.
It is really interesting of how some here talk as if MMO, some games ... no less, is the most important thing on earth, and if players need to "contribute to community" or what-not.
I think they should take it easy .. we are talking about games here. But of course it is their prerogative to be as serious as they want about MMOs, and other hobbies.
You should talk. You, and a couple others (Axehilt and Loktofeit), act like you are the holy defenders of the realm. No post such as this escapes your demonic gaze nor your magical curse.
By the way, the genre is a huge business. That's not really something that should be taken lightly. Job losses and stock outcomes make the real news.
It is really interesting of how some here talk as if MMO, some games ... no less, is the most important thing on earth, and if players need to "contribute to community" or what-not.
I think they should take it easy .. we are talking about games here. But of course it is their prerogative to be as serious as they want about MMOs, and other hobbies.
You should talk. You, and a couple others (Axehilt and Loktofeit), act like you are the holy defenders of the realm. No post such as this escapes your demonic gaze nor your magical curse.
By the way, the genre is a huge business. That's not really something that should be taken lightly. Job losses and stock outcomes make the real news.
"Holy Defenders of the Realm" I like that title.
Seriously, though, what is it you see so wrong about people who work in the industry giving input on the industry?
Are you looking to discuss something or are you looking for an echo chamber?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It is really interesting of how some here talk as if MMO, some games ... no less, is the most important thing on earth, and if players need to "contribute to community" or what-not.
I think they should take it easy .. we are talking about games here. But of course it is their prerogative to be as serious as they want about MMOs, and other hobbies.
You should talk. You, and a couple others (Axehilt and Loktofeit), act like you are the holy defenders of the realm. No post such as this escapes your demonic gaze nor your magical curse.
By the way, the genre is a huge business. That's not really something that should be taken lightly. Job losses and stock outcomes make the real news.
"Holy Defenders of the Realm" I like that title.
Seriously, though, what is it you see so wrong about people who work in the industry giving input on the industry?
Are you looking to discuss something or are you looking for an echo chamber?
Again, you didn't read what was posted. I expected better out of you.
The person in the article talks about Kickstarters. The comments on the first article put blame on devs from other devs and they give reasons the opinions exist.
Still though. I'm not talking about a satiation feeling like hunger, it's economic satiation.
"
Economic satiation is the idea that once people have attained an adequate level of income and consumption they reach a satiation point at which income and consumer goods become less effective as reinforcers and as sources of satisfaction.
"
Even if I were talking about what you are - content isn't a cash shop so anyone requesting content sure isn't saying give me more free games because those wrap content around cash shops. Look at ESO, can't think about anything but cash shop but oblivious to what I'm talking about - they keep making more mounts - gee, everyone else has mounts and you'll have 40 by the time you are done. Diminishing returns are going to kick in. Is that what you need to read to understand it. It's diminishing returns.
You sell someone a mount, ESO sells them 5 mounts, 5 other games sell them mounts. Finally, they don't want to buy another mount and feel no satisfaction from purchasing any mount. This is the same thing I told you about spreading out your 10% of payers between games - a very free to play trait. You let your competitors satiate your own products and when you aren't suggesting they go do something else (because you don't know how to foster community and keep them there when microtransactions aren't involved) you cannibalize your own sales by making multiple products to support with lots of staff - see Sony finally catching on and killing off some of their old games even after they gave out the station cash perk trying to keep ppl on their games alone by paying a one time fee to access them all. Now you increase your overhead just because you are trying to keep your competitors from putting the juujuu on your potential payers.
Cash shops are goods since the game isn't for sale. You aren't attempting to overcome satiation by offering different items because you are locked into what is acceptable and unacceptable because people abused the system and made pay to win items. Now everything is under judgment if you plan on being that white knight free game. It may not have been your personal baggage but it is under scrutiny by millions of eyes. Your cash shop items can't be worse than theirs or you get called pay to win - yours can't be the same as theirs or you suffer satiation effects.
What's a boy to do. Oh I don't know, change the gameplan? Offer something proprietary and/or niche. The horror of having to be different. How will devs sleep tonight if they can't take first year students out as interns and make the best darn games this town has seen. Cough or rehashes of what worked before.
And the more you sell the same as everyone else, the more you get that effect quicker because you aren't the only game they visit. Why did I introduce niche to you - was it because it was the same or different.
I took a distinct decline of nearly a billion dollars over one year, reviewed sentiment around many areas from people who complain, looked at the mobile charting, got input from friends when I tried to give away a beta key and took a stance. What you've got instead is well, it's profitable now. There is more to the world than now. There is satiation involved, I witness many indicators.
You know, making a fun game isn't something free to play games own as their own creation. I still don't know at all why you think that having fun differentiates the product. If it weren't for the fun people had in sub MMOs free to play ones wouldn't exist. Know your ancestors and give them some credit. Free to play didn't invent fun. It invented 0 entry cost for longer periods than a trial and it introduced a whole host of drama right along with it like the practical inability to ban someone and on the dev side some people who think it's all wonderful and it will last forever.
People will just keep shelling out billions yearly because everyone has a bank under their mattress - my fault 10% of them have a bank under their mattress. They won't get sick of paying you thousands of dollars for pixels, the fun won't wear off, and ding darnit you can make the funnest game on the planet - so fun that they wouldn't possibly spend money instead on something tangible instead. Nope, they've decided now that the entirety of their portfolio should exist in virtual goods.
And you can totally compete with every sub game that focuses on creating content because you spend time making cash shop items. They can't possibly make their game funner than your because you don't spend any time away from fun for monetization discuss or planning. They spend their time making gameplay systems while you have another meeting about the nightly sales and what needs to be pushed. They have something you don't - one less component to work on and literal numbers. One player = one fee. It's very predictable. For you, if the wrong 10% of your population leave, the other 90% of your game has to leave - the game is closing. It's quicksand, it's rickety and it benefits none of us.
What is a fad?
No, what I described is definitely related to economic satiation. The seeming unending desire for more content and better gameplay does in fact have a diminishing return to it, and the industry currently is not heavily characterized by players frequently saying "These MMORPGs last too long for me to play them all." (ie additional consumer goods become less effective as a source of satisfaction.) Typically we see the opposite of that, with players expressing unhappiness that the game can be completed in a month or a few weeks.
You act like the article's author is sneakily trying to steer players away from indie games with his Kickstarter comments. It just sounds like he doesn't put much thought into it is all. Heck I don't even put that much thought into it, but I'm still quickly assessing in my head the likelihood of success based on various factors (scale, experience, etc) and only donating to projects I think have a strong chance of success. And most projects I've backed using that process have met or exceeded expectations.
In your ESO example, keep in mind that games get old. So the player is going to stop playing after a finite lifespan no matter what and it's actually not a huge problem if you're unable to sell them things forever. In the best case you sell things to them for an extremely long time, like WOW's lifespan has been, and then you create a new game because players are done with the old one anyway.
You seem to think people tire of looking nice. Why do you believe that? Clothing isn't purchased purely for utility in real life, and the equivalent of clothing (mounts, transmogs, whatever) are nearly as valuable to people in the games they play. You actually continue for quite some time describing things contingent on this false premise.
And in fact your post continues quite a while rambling on about irrelevant things.
Towards the end you imply non-F2P developers are doing nothing but creating fun while F2P games. Didn't you pay attention to the earlier posts? B2P games earn their money from hype and image. So considerable time is spent (far more than in F2P games) carefully tailoring that image to get money to change hands before the game is experienced. CG trailers, slick websites, fancy box art, etc. These are not things which make the game more fun, in the same way that the time spent implementing store items often fails to make the game more fun. But that image is how the sale is made, so it's critical to a B2P game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Free games are welfare - keep giving them out and claim they help anyone change their situation - see how much welfare did for us.
Wait what?
Free games are what devs use trying to find the whales. It is erroneous to assume free games are offered (remember it is a free market .. no govt forces anyone to provide free games) as a charity. They are there simply because attracting some whales is a better business model that trying to using a sub-only model which severely reduces your player base.
You should probably go back and actually read the conversation before simply jumping on one statement.
Why would anyone read that wall of text. If I wanted to read a novel right now I would. This is a message board if he can't convey his thoughts in a paragraph or two I'm out. I don't want to waste my time reading his bullshit. I'm sure thats how many people feel.
In short, shorten up your post or don't post at all. As most people won't read it anyways.
^Totally agreed!!!
Yet we will see essay after essay here because they think they have that much to say. Then the others will post their essay rebuttal....
Originally posted by greenreen
Kind of like the people who post large images or signatures because they have nothing of importance to put into words. When your posts exceed the size of your signature you can give us some valuable input. What an ultra cool nickname you have - good thing you gave it to us twice so that we won't forget it - please tell me you have it tattooed on your arm for the world to know your contribution to the planet.
There's a good phrase for that - if you can't' improve the silence, zip it up. Grown folks are talking.
Or if you prefer something long enough to lose your attention span.... here we go.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. Author: Unknown
I'm having too much fun with this sarcasm - to bed time.
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Kind of like the people who post large images or signatures because they have nothing of importance to put into words. When your posts exceed the size of your signature you can give us some valuable input. What an ultra cool nickname you have - good thing you gave it to us twice so that we won't forget it - please tell me you have it tattooed on your arm for the world to know your contribution to the planet.
There's a good phrase for that - if you can't' improve the silence, zip it up. Grown folks are talking.
Or if you prefer something long enough to lose your attention span.... here we go.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. Author: Unknown
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by greenreen
Kind of like the people who post large images or signatures because they have nothing of importance to put into words. When your posts exceed the size of your signature you can give us some valuable input. What an ultra cool nickname you have - good thing you gave it to us twice so that we won't forget it - please tell me you have it tattooed on your arm for the world to know your contribution to the planet.
There's a good phrase for that - if you can't' improve the silence, zip it up. Grown folks are talking.
Or if you prefer something long enough to lose your attention span.... here we go.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people. Author: Unknown
Oh no you just did not post a blank msg - shakes fist like old person.
Thank you people for this....long needed laugh
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Free games are welfare - keep giving them out and claim they help anyone change their situation - see how much welfare did for us.
Wait what?
Free games are what devs use trying to find the whales. It is erroneous to assume free games are offered (remember it is a free market .. no govt forces anyone to provide free games) as a charity. They are there simply because attracting some whales is a better business model that trying to using a sub-only model which severely reduces your player base.
You should probably go back and actually read the conversation before simply jumping on one statement.
Why would anyone read that wall of text. If I wanted to read a novel right now I would. This is a message board if he can't convey his thoughts in a paragraph or two I'm out. I don't want to waste my time reading his bullshit. I'm sure thats how many people feel.
In short, shorten up your post or don't post at all. As most people won't read it anyways.
The TL:DR people deserve what they get.
See below...then realize it doesn't take an essay
Originally posted by Antiquated
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Wait .. there is things of importance here?
Depends who you ask, really.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Comments
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There was a reply in there when i hit post. Not sure where it went. I guess bedtime for me, as well.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There is an entire field of law devoted to concerns of the poor. There's relatively little money in it, but many lawyers choose to do pro bono work in it because they find it to be rewarding. Regarding WIC (Women - Infants - Children), food stamps (EBT), perpetuating the condition of the poor: that has been largely debunked (Brodie, Stanford University, 2014). That's not to say it doesn't get abused, but to say that the poor are responsible for being poor because they are "lazy" or should be doing better things with their time is not only heartless, but untrue.
It's more an issue of social connectivity. There is currently "profound segregation" (Brodie) among America's different classes.
As far as games go, they will be created among all people regardless. I see it as an axiom: people play games. What shape or form they take can be different depending on society. There was an article in the Economist at least a year ago about how some rural eastern cultures such as Pakistan or northern India were partly skipping the process of industrialization and moving straight into a service economy. It had a picture of a shepherd on a hillside surfing the web on a tablet.
I can't help but wonder if there isn't a similar process at work here.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
To the posters that said everything should be in a sound bite or don't post at all, well that's why the world is ruled by crooks. I'd explain... but wall of text.
The TL:DR people deserve what they get.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
What you hear from players is the opposite of satiation "Yeah I played GW2. It lasts a month or two then it gets old since there's not enough content." When you add up all the major MMORPG releases you realize that a month or two each isn't actually enough to sate gamers for the year (hence all the whining and unrest.)
The rest of your post spins off on a lot of strange tangents which are unrelated to what I've said. I never claimed you were the only one with a wrong opinion. Those articles represent reasonable caution though, and don't seem to support whatever point you're making (and the first one supports my decision to make fun-focused games without purely chasing after whale players.) And I have no clue where you got ".and it's no surprise they tell you to not follow Kickstarters because that's where indies would go" since my post history will show a consistent strong support for Kickstarter (you just have to be smart about which games you back.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Wait .. there is things of importance here? ... an internet forum about a sub-genre of games?
And i thought we are just shooting breeze and having fun .....
Depends who you ask, really.
The OP starts off saying folks are deluding themselves, claiming folks are delusional is a type of insult is it not? Calling folks Leeches is an insult is it not? SO before you ask Axe why folks resort to insults, why not ask the OP, or yourself?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
lol .. somehow i expect to see that cartoon ....
It is really interesting of how some here talk as if MMO, some games ... no less, is the most important thing on earth, and if players need to "contribute to community" or what-not.
I think they should take it easy .. we are talking about games here. But of course it is their prerogative to be as serious as they want about MMOs, and other hobbies.
You should talk. You, and a couple others (Axehilt and Loktofeit), act like you are the holy defenders of the realm. No post such as this escapes your demonic gaze nor your magical curse.
By the way, the genre is a huge business. That's not really something that should be taken lightly. Job losses and stock outcomes make the real news.
Once upon a time....
"Holy Defenders of the Realm" I like that title.
Seriously, though, what is it you see so wrong about people who work in the industry giving input on the industry?
Are you looking to discuss something or are you looking for an echo chamber?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just making a comment.
Do all 3 of you work in the industry?
Once upon a time....
No, what I described is definitely related to economic satiation. The seeming unending desire for more content and better gameplay does in fact have a diminishing return to it, and the industry currently is not heavily characterized by players frequently saying "These MMORPGs last too long for me to play them all." (ie additional consumer goods become less effective as a source of satisfaction.) Typically we see the opposite of that, with players expressing unhappiness that the game can be completed in a month or a few weeks.
You act like the article's author is sneakily trying to steer players away from indie games with his Kickstarter comments. It just sounds like he doesn't put much thought into it is all. Heck I don't even put that much thought into it, but I'm still quickly assessing in my head the likelihood of success based on various factors (scale, experience, etc) and only donating to projects I think have a strong chance of success. And most projects I've backed using that process have met or exceeded expectations.
In your ESO example, keep in mind that games get old. So the player is going to stop playing after a finite lifespan no matter what and it's actually not a huge problem if you're unable to sell them things forever. In the best case you sell things to them for an extremely long time, like WOW's lifespan has been, and then you create a new game because players are done with the old one anyway.
You seem to think people tire of looking nice. Why do you believe that? Clothing isn't purchased purely for utility in real life, and the equivalent of clothing (mounts, transmogs, whatever) are nearly as valuable to people in the games they play. You actually continue for quite some time describing things contingent on this false premise.
And in fact your post continues quite a while rambling on about irrelevant things.
Towards the end you imply non-F2P developers are doing nothing but creating fun while F2P games. Didn't you pay attention to the earlier posts? B2P games earn their money from hype and image. So considerable time is spent (far more than in F2P games) carefully tailoring that image to get money to change hands before the game is experienced. CG trailers, slick websites, fancy box art, etc. These are not things which make the game more fun, in the same way that the time spent implementing store items often fails to make the game more fun. But that image is how the sale is made, so it's critical to a B2P game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Thank you people for this....long needed laugh
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
See below...then realize it doesn't take an essay
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
May be if I am a developer, a publisher exec, or even a gaming reporter.
But I am just a gamer .. and I am going to take it lightly, particularly when I am talking about MMOs.
Wish there was a "like" button here
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."