If CR succeeds with SC than it could be, with a high probability, a real game changer in the industry. Something the gaming industry needs in my opinion. Since CF/KS there already has been some change but not to this degree.
But I still believe that we should wait until there really is an endgame (be it that SC succeeds or fails) and then we can look back and learn from it.
Going in now and distracting CIG from its goal would help nobody as fingers will be pointed in all directions (which would help only people like DS). Only when there is a result the accountability and responsibility can be properly addressed. Until then...
It is one thing to believe DS or CR. But if you have money in the game you can believe CR no problem. But why not ask for proof? Are you guys really that scared to even pose the question(s) to CR to see if he even has a engine that will create the world of SC? I know the one's that believe DS aren't scared to ask him any questions and he pretty much does answer. But even still we have answers from people that actually worked on CS that pretty much backs up DS.
I just don't get the reason for you guys with money in the game and why you won't at least ask CR to show them something, anything that shows he does have a real engine and what it can do! If he doesn't have the engine that will create CS he is a good 5 years away from even getting a pre alpha out the door. Shouldn't you at least be a little worried about this?
All this whole DS CR battle has done is create fighting between the gamer's. Demanding to see the engine really isn't asking to much guys and if it has been asked over on the CS forums what is the responses to those questions? Do you get real answers or are you attacked and are you attack from backers or CR and or people that work for CS?
I really wish these questions would be answered without attacks. But I feel that just will not happen and that is the sad part of all of this.
Good read I only have one addendum why someone not invested either way with SC might be curious/interested about the whole thing, CF/KS itself. The manner this all plays out WILL have broader reaching effects than just SC in regards to CF as a whole, particuarely for gaming. Both sides have raised questions regarding felonies by the other along with raising media attention out side norm game channels. It's pretty un-realistic<EDIT at this point /EDIT> to not expect seeing this end up in Federal court at some point, and that will send waves regardless of outcome. And even in the unlikely(imo) event it doesn't end up before a Federal judge how this scenario goes will have a significant determination on peoples willingness to back other CF projects. It's size/scope vs CF in general demands it.
I disagree, the spat between any of these parties means absolutely squat. People threatened to take the original designers of the Oculus Rift to court after they sold it to Facebook - yea, nothing came of that.
I think that KS is just a really good marketing platform now. Also, it's a good way to ensure you have buy-in. Some people (like inXile Entertainment) have used it multiple times, despite being successful with their other games. It just gives some re-assurance that you're headed in the right direction. There's an interest.
In the case of CR, I think that the initial concept was more modest than his "best case" vision, but it's gotten to a point where I think he feels like he can make the game he wants to make. I say "cool". Go for it. Just make sure that there's something in the end. Like I said, I'd even settle for a Freelance 2 or Privateer 3. I definitely don't think it's a scam though. The whole scam or con angle just doesn't make good sense. Even if he was a criminal.
That's true. Even the sources cited in the original Escapist article don't seem to think he's out to scam anyone; they just think he's biting off more than he can chew on the backers' dimes and it's having a negative effect on the development of an actual end product.
Considering the all-over-the-place development (Squadron 42 is scheduled for rel- oh nevermind, maybe it will or won't) and the overall lack of progress in building and showing the world (and not just some arena-style empty space and a hangar), I can say that's a lot more believable claim than that CR is a scam artist. Much more likely (though I am not claiming to know for a fact, just in comparison to the "scam" claims), he's just a poor project manager that happened to be extraordinarily funded by the crowd and (may) end up crippling the crowdfunding scene if he manages to run the project into the ground.
Teala said:
I disagree, the spat between any of these parties means absolutely squat. People threatened to take the original designers of the Oculus Rift to court after they sold it to Facebook - yea, nothing came of that.
I'm not referring to that I'm referring to the allegations in the article then the allegations in both the rebuttal and C&D letter citing conspiracy to commit(crossing jurisdictional borders). It impacts at least three agencies mandates, and raises enough questions vis a vis the other; at the minimum will result in official inquiries. These are official statements/communication/reporting not random blog/FB posts
I think that KS is just a really good marketing platform now. Also, it's a good way to ensure you have buy-in. Some people (like inXile Entertainment) have used it multiple times, despite being successful with their other games. It just gives some re-assurance that you're headed in the right direction. There's an interest.
In the case of CR, I think that the initial concept was more modest than his "best case" vision, but it's gotten to a point where I think he feels like he can make the game he wants to make. I say "cool". Go for it. Just make sure that there's something in the end. Like I said, I'd even settle for a Freelance 2 or Privateer 3. I definitely don't think it's a scam though. The whole scam or con angle just doesn't make good sense. Even if he was a criminal.
That's true. Even the sources cited in the original Escapist article don't seem to think he's out to scam anyone; they just think he's biting off more than he can chew on the backers' dimes and it's having a negative effect on the development of an actual end product.
Considering the all-over-the-place development (Squadron 42 is scheduled for rel- oh nevermind, maybe it will or won't) and the overall lack of progress in building and showing the world (and not just some arena-style empty space and a hangar), I can say that's a lot more believable claim than that CR is a scam artist. Much more likely (though I am not claiming to know for a fact, just in comparison to the "scam" claims), he's just a poor project manager that happened to be extraordinarily funded by the crowd and (may) end up crippling the crowdfunding scene if he manages to run the project into the ground.
I got that from the article as well, plus the focusing on advertising more than the game, that is why i think it's not hard to believe they could be running low on funds.
I got that from the article as well, plus the focusing on advertising more than the game, that is why i think it's not hard to believe they could be running low on funds.
Because the advertising is what you see first (like with almost every other product out there)... the focus is definitely on the game. This kind of advertising has almost been since the beginning of the campaign because without advertising there wouldn't be the scope that there is now. Also it's not that the whole team is responsible for advertising. I guess you know that there are several teams that are responsible for different parts. Like in every company.
No offense... just want to clarify we are on the same level.
And only because one article says so doesn't mean they are low on funds. Only because it's on the Internet doesn't make it true. Therefor I search for more than one source and like to read different opinions before coming to conclusion.
I got that from the article as well, plus the focusing on advertising more than the game, that is why i think it's not hard to believe they could be running low on funds.
Because the advertising is what you see first (like with almost every other product out there)... the focus is definitely on the game. This kind of advertising has almost been since the beginning of the campaign because without advertising there wouldn't be the scope that there is now. Also it's not that the whole team is responsible for advertising. I guess you know that there are several teams that are responsible for different parts. Like in every company.
No offense... just want to clarify we are on the same level.
And only because one article says so doesn't mean they are low on funds. Only because it's on the Internet doesn't make it true. Therefor I search for more than one source and like to read different opinions before coming to conclusion.
I said could be low on funds.
yes i know companies have different departments that handle things, but i would of thought they would put money into a game than advertising, they don't even have a game to advertise.
Most advertisements i see are for products you can actually use, not ones that you can't or is half finished.
I think that KS is just a really good marketing platform now. Also, it's a good way to ensure you have buy-in. Some people (like inXile Entertainment) have used it multiple times, despite being successful with their other games. It just gives some re-assurance that you're headed in the right direction. There's an interest.
In the case of CR, I think that the initial concept was more modest than his "best case" vision, but it's gotten to a point where I think he feels like he can make the game he wants to make. I say "cool". Go for it. Just make sure that there's something in the end. Like I said, I'd even settle for a Freelance 2 or Privateer 3. I definitely don't think it's a scam though. The whole scam or con angle just doesn't make good sense. Even if he was a criminal.
That's true. Even the sources cited in the original Escapist article don't seem to think he's out to scam anyone; they just think he's biting off more than he can chew on the backers' dimes and it's having a negative effect on the development of an actual end product.
Considering the all-over-the-place development (Squadron 42 is scheduled for rel- oh nevermind, maybe it will or won't) and the overall lack of progress in building and showing the world (and not just some arena-style empty space and a hangar), I can say that's a lot more believable claim than that CR is a scam artist. Much more likely (though I am not claiming to know for a fact, just in comparison to the "scam" claims), he's just a poor project manager that happened to be extraordinarily funded by the crowd and (may) end up crippling the crowdfunding scene if he manages to run the project into the ground.
I got that from the article as well, plus the focusing on advertising more than the game, that is why i think it's not hard to believe they could be running low on funds.
A reliable friend working on a major MMO told me the rule of thumb was 'For every 100 employees, you spend a million a month.' So if SC is raising a million a month, they are falling behind. Even two million.
This doesn't include sunk costs like the Cryengine acquisition. Doesn't include extravagances like a high end Mocap studio shoot, high end actors doing voice acting, extravagant personal salaries for Roberts and friends, fancy cappuccino machines, or whatever.
I'm no fan of CR, but even I don't think it's a scam. He wants to make a grand game, in part to feed his grand ego. He's just not that good a project manager. He's a drag on the development, despite being an asset to the PR and marketing. That is until he lets the nasty underbelly show (example: The Letter). There's a reason that the much ballyhoo'd 'game pros' who signed on with SC earlier have turned around and left the building fairly quickly.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I think that KS is just a really good marketing platform now. Also, it's a good way to ensure you have buy-in. Some people (like inXile Entertainment) have used it multiple times, despite being successful with their other games. It just gives some re-assurance that you're headed in the right direction. There's an interest.
In the case of CR, I think that the initial concept was more modest than his "best case" vision, but it's gotten to a point where I think he feels like he can make the game he wants to make. I say "cool". Go for it. Just make sure that there's something in the end. Like I said, I'd even settle for a Freelance 2 or Privateer 3. I definitely don't think it's a scam though. The whole scam or con angle just doesn't make good sense. Even if he was a criminal.
That's true. Even the sources cited in the original Escapist article don't seem to think he's out to scam anyone; they just think he's biting off more than he can chew on the backers' dimes and it's having a negative effect on the development of an actual end product.
Considering the all-over-the-place development (Squadron 42 is scheduled for rel- oh nevermind, maybe it will or won't) and the overall lack of progress in building and showing the world (and not just some arena-style empty space and a hangar), I can say that's a lot more believable claim than that CR is a scam artist. Much more likely (though I am not claiming to know for a fact, just in comparison to the "scam" claims), he's just a poor project manager that happened to be extraordinarily funded by the crowd and (may) end up crippling the crowdfunding scene if he manages to run the project into the ground.
I got that from the article as well, plus the focusing on advertising more than the game, that is why i think it's not hard to believe they could be running low on funds.
A reliable friend working on a major MMO told me the rule of thumb was 'For every 100 employees, you spend a million a month.' So if SC is raising a million a month, they are falling behind. Even two million.
This doesn't include sunk costs like the Cryengine acquisition. Doesn't include extravagances like a high end Mocap studio shoot, high end actors doing voice acting, extravagant personal salaries for Roberts and friends, fancy cappuccino machines, or whatever.
I'm no fan of CR, but even I don't think it's a scam. He wants to make a grand game, in part to feed his grand ego. He's just not that good a project manager. He's a drag on the development, despite being an asset to the PR and marketing. That is until he lets the nasty underbelly show (example: The Letter). There's a reason that the much ballyhoo'd 'game pros' who signed on with SC earlier have turned around and left the building fairly quickly.
And you know for certain that CR is a bad project manager. Don't go quoting anonymous sources and anonymous disgruntled former employees as proof.
LOL this proves one thing, CR is good at making commercials. I do not see any game where you can land on planets, fly and fight, all I see if a video made to sell ships. The CR scam.
But can you please show me the engine where I login and make a character and then login to the start of the game with tutorials and that.
I don't know what kind of game do you normal play senor but those looks like youtube videos to me
All jokings aside I think they could've saved themselves a lot of trouble if they have released the base game that is lacking some features for the alpha and selected test groups so at least some people can confirm that they actually have the base game functional and end all speculations.
I don't think people are looking for "spectacular" right now, they are more or less just want some "proof of life" so to say.
Sounds to me like you just want SC to be discussed by backers only. Although, I can relate to that feeling sometimes when people that don't play the MMOs I play pop-in to their forums here to trash them (know what I mean?) it's really a silly notion to put forward on a public site where gamers talk about games.
It's not only an interesting thing to watch there are potential important repercussions here that go to a variety of subjects such as crowd funding in general, pre-release hypes, pre-release spending habits of dreamers and those who profit by it... all kinds of shit I'm interested in.
So pardon me but I think I'll keep right on discussing it (without jumping in CR's or DS's bus) and not give CIG a dime until they release something I want to play... if ever.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
the entire games industry wants SC to fail , to make sure kickstarter for games dies.
WOW it's a conspiracy. Dude take off the tin foil hat.
This is probably why some people don't like my posts because i have been replying to people like Dren_Utogi.
I made some comments last night asking why chris didn't use his own money to make the game and comparing star citizen to project titan, they said my comments where redundant and they come out with a comment like this.
the entire games industry wants SC to fail , to make sure kickstarter for games dies.
not sure , but the game is slated for 2016 ? I've been a game for over 30 years + and I have to say , Ive never see the game industry try so hard to shut down one game in my entire life. The saddest part is watching regular gamers get sucked into this social media campaign.
But CR also said game would be out in 2012. How can you believe anything the guy says?
Sounds to me like you just want SC to be discussed by backers only. Although, I can relate to that feeling sometimes when people that don't play the MMOs I play pop-in to their forums here to trash them (know what I mean?) it's really a silly notion to put forward on a public site where gamers talk about games.
It's not only an interesting thing to watch there are potential important repercussions here that go to a variety of subjects such as crowd funding in general, pre-release hypes, pre-release spending habits of dreamers and those who profit by it... all kinds of shit I'm interested in.
So pardon me but I think I'll keep right on discussing it (without jumping in CR's or DS's bus) and not give CIG a dime until they release something I want to play... if ever.
I don't care if people discuss SC - on the game itself. What some people on these forums are doing is more or less trying to bring the game down - see it fail and they have not even donated to the game one red cent. They have no dog in this fight at all. Plus, they ride the coat tails of some guy that has proven he can't make a playable game if his life depending on it think he's the next coming of Gesus on a stick...as if Derek Smart has one once of trustworthyness in his entire body.
As for this having ramifications on crowdfunding. It won't do jack squat to crowdfunding. So many projects have failed on crowd funding - hundreds and people still give money. Why? Because they can and hope the project goes through as planned. Very few donors have any doubt that the project the donate to has a chance that it will not see the light of day. It's the chance they are willing to take. If you are not willing to take that chance - don't donate - it's not your money to worry about.
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But I still believe that we should wait until there really is an endgame (be it that SC succeeds or fails) and then we can look back and learn from it.
Going in now and distracting CIG from its goal would help nobody as fingers will be pointed in all directions (which would help only people like DS). Only when there is a result the accountability and responsibility can be properly addressed. Until then...
Patience you must have!
Considering the all-over-the-place development (Squadron 42 is scheduled for rel- oh nevermind, maybe it will or won't) and the overall lack of progress in building and showing the world (and not just some arena-style empty space and a hangar), I can say that's a lot more believable claim than that CR is a scam artist. Much more likely (though I am not claiming to know for a fact, just in comparison to the "scam" claims), he's just a poor project manager that happened to be extraordinarily funded by the crowd and (may) end up crippling the crowdfunding scene if he manages to run the project into the ground.
I'm not referring to that I'm referring to the allegations in the article then the allegations in both the rebuttal and C&D letter citing conspiracy to commit(crossing jurisdictional borders). It impacts at least three agencies mandates, and raises enough questions vis a vis the other; at the minimum will result in official inquiries. These are official statements/communication/reporting not random blog/FB posts
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
No offense... just want to clarify we are on the same level.
And only because one article says so doesn't mean they are low on funds. Only because it's on the Internet doesn't make it true. Therefor I search for more than one source and like to read different opinions before coming to conclusion.
yes i know companies have different departments that handle things, but i would of thought they would put money into a game than advertising, they don't even have a game to advertise.
Most advertisements i see are for products you can actually use, not ones that you can't or is half finished.
This doesn't include sunk costs like the Cryengine acquisition. Doesn't include extravagances like a high end Mocap studio shoot, high end actors doing voice acting, extravagant personal salaries for Roberts and friends, fancy cappuccino machines, or whatever.
I'm no fan of CR, but even I don't think it's a scam. He wants to make a grand game, in part to feed his grand ego. He's just not that good a project manager. He's a drag on the development, despite being an asset to the PR and marketing. That is until he lets the nasty underbelly show (example: The Letter). There's a reason that the much ballyhoo'd 'game pros' who signed on with SC earlier have turned around and left the building fairly quickly.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
LOL this proves one thing, CR is good at making commercials. I do not see any game where you can land on planets, fly and fight, all I see if a video made to sell ships. The CR scam.
But can you please show me the engine where I login and make a character and then login to the start of the game with tutorials and that.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
I don't know what kind of game do you normal play senor but those looks like youtube videos to me
All jokings aside I think they could've saved themselves a lot of trouble if they have released the base game that is lacking some features for the alpha and selected test groups so at least some people can confirm that they actually have the base game functional and end all speculations.
I don't think people are looking for "spectacular" right now, they are more or less just want some "proof of life" so to say.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
It's not only an interesting thing to watch there are potential important repercussions here that go to a variety of subjects such as crowd funding in general, pre-release hypes, pre-release spending habits of dreamers and those who profit by it... all kinds of shit I'm interested in.
So pardon me but I think I'll keep right on discussing it (without jumping in CR's or DS's bus) and not give CIG a dime until they release something I want to play... if ever.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
1. A lot of people love and miss space opera type of games
2. Many of those who KS this project are in fact from people within the industry (in fact, people who themselves makes space sims, like David Braben http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/24/braben-on-star-citizen-elite-2-bugs-and-obscene-planet-names/ )
I made some comments last night asking why chris didn't use his own money to make the game and comparing star citizen to project titan, they said my comments where redundant and they come out with a comment like this.
the entire games industry wants SC to fail , to make sure kickstarter for games dies.
Ok yes that is what is going on. lol
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
As for this having ramifications on crowdfunding. It won't do jack squat to crowdfunding. So many projects have failed on crowd funding - hundreds and people still give money. Why? Because they can and hope the project goes through as planned. Very few donors have any doubt that the project the donate to has a chance that it will not see the light of day. It's the chance they are willing to take. If you are not willing to take that chance - don't donate - it's not your money to worry about.