This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
If they just took away the loot and gave them a week ban then you people would come here and say "Trion should have perma banned them but since they are major cash whales they don't wanna lose $$". At this point whatever Trion does people are shitting on them, so in return they stopped giving shit about what people say and decided to do go complete "we need more money so we will now take away 5 year old game feature from free player and make this as inconvenient as possible" route with even RIft.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
If they just took away the loot and gave them a week ban then you people would come here and say "Trion should have perma banned them but since they are major cash whales they don't wanna lose $$". At this point whatever Trion does people are shitting on them, so in return they stopped giving shit about what people say and decided to do go complete "we need more money so we will now take away 5 year old game feature from free player and make this as inconvenient as possible" route with even RIft.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I am a software developer myself, but i still cant understand how companies like Trion or ArenaNet (karma bug), can punish players for company incompetence (bugs).
Well this is how it is i guess nowdays.
Trion has no control over the coding of the game. They get the build from XL games and implement it for their NA/EU published version of the game. If the coding is buggy, it's XL's fault. That being said, no game is perfect, there's always going to be issues. Taking advantage of one of those inevitable issues, or going out of the way to trigger one, is an exploit, plain and simple.
It doesn't change the fact that its still a company problem not players. Maybe Trion should force XL Games to better QA their games?
That is just like saying there are no police around to enforce the law, it is ok to break the law...
It is a known exploit, they used what was necessary to trigger the exploit, the company perma-banned them. They were caught breaking the game and paid the price.
How come Trion didn't ban entire guilds when they were REPEATEDLY using line of sight glitches on Morpheus when that was a thing?
How come Trion didn't ban entire guilds when they were REPEATEDLY exploiting gate placement during sieges?
Banning the entire guild was political. It was a game first, and they got embarassed so they made an example of the guild. Removing the items, and credit would have sufficed. I hope there weren't innocent guild members who got caught in the bans. That would be idiotic and typical of Trino.
Here's a wacky idea. FIX THE FUCKING EXPLOIT and despawn Leviathan until they do. There are people who swindled GMs into helping them exploit the game who didn't get permabanned. Amazing.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
How come Trion didn't ban entire guilds when they were REPEATEDLY using line of sight glitches on Morpheus when that was a thing?
How come Trion didn't ban entire guilds when they were REPEATEDLY exploiting gate placement during sieges?
Banning the entire guild was political. It was a game first, and they got embarassed so they made an example of the guild. Removing the items, and credit would have sufficed. I hope there weren't innocent guild members who got caught in the bans. That would be idiotic and typical of Trino.
Here's a wacky idea. FIX THE FUCKING EXPLOIT and despawn Leviathan until they do. There are people who swindled GMs into helping them exploit the game who didn't get permabanned. Amazing.
You obviously don't know how this exploit occurs. They literally dropped lumber and metal packs on all over the leviathan's regular scripted movement pattern, the script was changed over and over ever since the 1st guild brought the leviathan on haranya ground in kr server and killed it. This guild obviously did their research to find the newest path and drop packs all over it. If someone goes to that length to get a kill it should be a harsh penalty. But as i have stated in my previous post, if they did not perma banned them you people would just come here and say they did not perma ban them for money.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
If they just took away the loot and gave them a week ban then you people would come here and say "Trion should have perma banned them but since they are major cash whales they don't wanna lose $$". At this point whatever Trion does people are shitting on them, so in return they stopped giving shit about what people say and decided to do go complete "we need more money so we will now take away 5 year old game feature from free player and make this as inconvenient as possible" route with even RIft.
I wish i could post the skinny guy's picture when he said : "what do you mean 'you people' "?
By you people i mean you and others who are saying this is just show off by trion and the decision was too harsh. Deny it all you like but i have seen "you people" do it before; if Trion did not perma ban them you would just say they did it for money, remember APEX duping threads?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
If they just took away the loot and gave them a week ban then you people would come here and say "Trion should have perma banned them but since they are major cash whales they don't wanna lose $$". At this point whatever Trion does people are shitting on them, so in return they stopped giving shit about what people say and decided to do go complete "we need more money so we will now take away 5 year old game feature from free player and make this as inconvenient as possible" route with even RIft.
I wish i could post the skinny guy's picture when he said : "what do you mean 'you people' "?
By you people i mean you and others who are saying this is just show off by trion and the decision was too harsh. Deny it all you like but i have seen "you people" do it before; if Trion did not perma ban them you would just say they did it for money, remember APEX duping threads?
Permaban repeat offenders who exploit PVP with TPs, invisibility etc... I'm all for that. But this was done simply because it was Levi and a server first - i.e. high profile. So it gave them an opportunity to generate PR about how tough they are (now... I still remember when road blocking with carts in PVE zones was just sandboxy.)
The idiot who publicly offered to turn snitch for profit? Yeah, permaban his dumb ass, but a one time glitched PVE kill just ain't permaban worthy.
And BTW, you really don't know shit about me or what I posted or didn't post about AA way back when I played it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I can't count how many times I have taken down some raid thing using "tactical advantages" in eq (and other mmorpgs). For example pre-debuff a perma rooted mob, or hiding behind a wall to avoid AoE damage, levitating to avoid gravity flux, kite stuff around that was supposed to be off tanked, using buffs/abilities/spells that were not designed for that use, and so on. I have been in raid situations in a bunch of games where people wondered, is it stuck? why does it not go to third phase?, why are there no [insert special attack]?, but you don't stop an entire raid, probably not even if a mob gets stuck somehow.. you kill it and move on.
Now I don't give a .. about AA or if a ban were ok in this case - I am just saying there are degrees of exploiting, such as how much advantage does it give you and are you deliberately using the exploit over and over. I am most inclined to think that generally if an exploit is reported and the developer has acknowledged it, but does not make a fix or specifically warns players about using it, then it is an accepted part of the game mechanic.
Something like a exploiting an insta kill bug repeatedly, or taking advantage of a vender buy/sell bug to get rich - That would qualify for a ban. While using "tactical advantages" that are not meant to work by design and only give a reasonably small advantage should not be punishable.. the developers should applaud players for breaking the game, and maybe even learn something new about their own game in the process.
A motorcycle driver pulls out in front of you. You have enough distance to stop but you think to yourself, it's my right to go this speed and he's at fault. So you maintain speed, hit the motorcyclist and he dies.
Was his death your fault?
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I get why they got banned.. but my question is why didn't this exploit get fixed?
I'm finding it hard to understand how the players are at fault, when all they did was react to something. It's not like they caused the glitch/exploit intentionally. Im sure every single one of us has played an mmo where a boss starts spazzing out and we still get the kill.. the perma ban is a bit excessive here.
Edit: I'm not saying something shouldn't be done, but to me there are A LOT more things wrong that they aren't giving out ban hammers for.
Post edited by klash2def on
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Which part of permanently banned are you not understanding?
What part of Now do not go and unban them next week are you not understanding?
You still white knighting this game?
At what point next week can I call you out on this?
Permanent bans do not get reversed - period.
This is one of those infamous AA form myths, temporary bans expire and people get unbanned.
Permanent do not.
So Sunday next week - let's see how many permanent bans are reversed?
This is just so over the top, there is no way to respond to it. In the few months that I played, they overturned dozens of "permanent" bans. Just stop dude, its so embarrassing.
A motorcycle driver pulls out in front of you. You have enough distance to stop but you think to yourself, it's my right to go this speed and he's at fault. So you maintain speed, hit the motorcyclist and he dies.
Was his death your fault?
99% of the time it'll be the fault of the person who rear-ended the other. You'd have to have video evidence to prove that the slower driver in front cut you off in such a manner that you didn't have time to act. This is a really bizarre analogy either way.
Anyway the difference between "a bug" and "exploiting" is all in the intent. A bug is something that happens without you trying to make it happen. An exploit is knowing a bug exists and using it to your advantage. As the video shows, that guild clearly dumped materials to create a situation for the bug to occur, so they exploited. As far as why Trion doesn't fix it, I'm not sure it's within the localizer's/publisher's capacity to change game code (or that they even have full access to it), I don't know the agreement they have with the developing studio.
Then we have "clever use of game mechanics" which is more akin to standing by a doorway which is too small for a mob to get through while you use ranged to take it down. No bug is occurring, and both the door and the size of the mob were placed there by the devs. Bugs are actual flaws in the code.
This sounds like it was a known exploit that was used in other countries before. They should have fixed it. Or not put up the content until it was really ready.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I get why they got banned.. but my question is why didn't this exploit get fixed?
I'm finding it hard to understand how the players are at fault, when all they did was react to something. It's not like they caused the glitch/exploit intentionally. Im sure every single one of us has played an mmo where a boss starts spazzing out and we still get the kill.. the perma ban is a bit excessive here.
Edit: I'm not saying something shouldn't be done, but to me there are A LOT more things wrong that they aren't giving out ban hammers for.
This glitch doesn't happen, it has to be done manually. Read my post on page 4.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This decision is pure .. "political" . It was a BUG, not an exploit. I think they need to check out what an exploit is and what a bug is.
Exploiting a bug is still exploiting.
Yea, but if done once just delete the loot or even give'em a temp ban. Perma-bans should be for repeated violations or exploits done over weeks or months. If I'm hyped to kill a boss and get him down to 70% it takes a lot to stop because of a bug. "OK, guys it's bugged now! Everyone stop!" I don't think so...
Yup, I agree. Permabanning a whole guild for a glitch exploit, even if it was Leviathan, smells of publicity stunt to me. Trion has been embroiled in a PR war since the AA launch. This has more to do with that than with anything else.
If they just took away the loot and gave them a week ban then you people would come here and say "Trion should have perma banned them but since they are major cash whales they don't wanna lose $$". At this point whatever Trion does people are shitting on them, so in return they stopped giving shit about what people say and decided to do go complete "we need more money so we will now take away 5 year old game feature from free player and make this as inconvenient as possible" route with even RIft.
I wish i could post the skinny guy's picture when he said : "what do you mean 'you people' "?
By you people i mean you and others who are saying this is just show off by trion and the decision was too harsh. Deny it all you like but i have seen "you people" do it before; if Trion did not perma ban them you would just say they did it for money, remember APEX duping threads?
Permaban repeat offenders who exploit PVP with TPs, invisibility etc... I'm all for that. But this was done simply because it was Levi and a server first - i.e. high profile. So it gave them an opportunity to generate PR about how tough they are (now... I still remember when road blocking with carts in PVE zones was just sandboxy.)
The idiot who publicly offered to turn snitch for profit? Yeah, permaban his dumb ass, but a one time glitched PVE kill just ain't permaban worthy.
And BTW, you really don't know shit about me or what I posted or didn't post about AA way back when I played it.
Nahhh.. i don't need to know "you people" but i do know that if they did not perma ban then "you people" would say they did not want to lose money just like now you are saying they are doing it for PR.
And who are you to decide how a company should enforce their ToS? Does the ToS say : "hey you can exploit once or twice but 3rd time we will ban you"?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Comments
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It is a known exploit, they used what was necessary to trigger the exploit, the company perma-banned them. They were caught breaking the game and paid the price.
How come Trion didn't ban entire guilds when they were REPEATEDLY exploiting gate placement during sieges?
Banning the entire guild was political. It was a game first, and they got embarassed so they made an example of the guild. Removing the items, and credit would have sufficed. I hope there weren't innocent guild members who got caught in the bans. That would be idiotic and typical of Trino.
Here's a wacky idea. FIX THE FUCKING EXPLOIT and despawn Leviathan until they do. There are people who swindled GMs into helping them exploit the game who didn't get permabanned. Amazing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
By you people i mean you and others who are saying this is just show off by trion and the decision was too harsh. Deny it all you like but i have seen "you people" do it before; if Trion did not perma ban them you would just say they did it for money, remember APEX duping threads?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The idiot who publicly offered to turn snitch for profit? Yeah, permaban his dumb ass, but a one time glitched PVE kill just ain't permaban worthy.
And BTW, you really don't know shit about me or what I posted or didn't post about AA way back when I played it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have been in raid situations in a bunch of games where people wondered, is it stuck? why does it not go to third phase?, why are there no [insert special attack]?, but you don't stop an entire raid, probably not even if a mob gets stuck somehow.. you kill it and move on.
Now I don't give a .. about AA or if a ban were ok in this case - I am just saying there are degrees of exploiting, such as how much advantage does it give you and are you deliberately using the exploit over and over. I am most inclined to think that generally if an exploit is reported and the developer has acknowledged it, but does not make a fix or specifically warns players about using it, then it is an accepted part of the game mechanic.
Something like a exploiting an insta kill bug repeatedly, or taking advantage of a vender buy/sell bug to get rich - That would qualify for a ban. While using "tactical advantages" that are not meant to work by design and only give a reasonably small advantage should not be punishable.. the developers should applaud players for breaking the game, and maybe even learn something new about their own game in the process.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Was his death your fault?
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I'm finding it hard to understand how the players are at fault, when all they did was react to something. It's not like they caused the glitch/exploit intentionally. Im sure every single one of us has played an mmo where a boss starts spazzing out and we still get the kill.. the perma ban is a bit excessive here. Edit: I'm not saying something shouldn't be done, but to me there are A LOT more things wrong that they aren't giving out ban hammers for.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
This is just so over the top, there is no way to respond to it. In the few months that I played, they overturned dozens of "permanent" bans. Just stop dude, its so embarrassing.
99% of the time it'll be the fault of the person who rear-ended the other. You'd have to have video evidence to prove that the slower driver in front cut you off in such a manner that you didn't have time to act. This is a really bizarre analogy either way.
Anyway the difference between "a bug" and "exploiting" is all in the intent. A bug is something that happens without you trying to make it happen. An exploit is knowing a bug exists and using it to your advantage. As the video shows, that guild clearly dumped materials to create a situation for the bug to occur, so they exploited. As far as why Trion doesn't fix it, I'm not sure it's within the localizer's/publisher's capacity to change game code (or that they even have full access to it), I don't know the agreement they have with the developing studio.
Then we have "clever use of game mechanics" which is more akin to standing by a doorway which is too small for a mob to get through while you use ranged to take it down. No bug is occurring, and both the door and the size of the mob were placed there by the devs. Bugs are actual flaws in the code.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
And who are you to decide how a company should enforce their ToS? Does the ToS say : "hey you can exploit once or twice but 3rd time we will ban you"?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.