According to Chris Roberts you have to expect wipes up to mid Beta. He said that MAYBE they will do no more wipes in late Beta as a thank you to the testers. So they get a little headstart.
Have fun
Take anything CR says with a dump truck of salt.
Where do you get this from? I mean the guy can sure waffle for hours without saying much at all! but from your statement I shouldn't trust CR at all because he is what? a compulsive liar?
I blame work for not being able to answer sooner but @rpmcmurphy covered what I would have said nicely.
Nothing wrong with being cautious or sceptical, however from everything I have seen the project seems to be progressing just like any typical large scale project I have been in. With this in mind, being overly critical seems completely unwarranted.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
Alpha isn't bad. The only problem might be with lag when all the players meet all that detail. But so far so good. Waiting for SQ42.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Nothing wrong with being cautious or sceptical, however from everything I have seen the project seems to be progressing just like any typical large scale project I have been in. With this in mind, being overly critical seems completely unwarranted.
I don't get your point here, if you're happy with the progress then great but that doesn't make other people wrong or overly critical because from their viewpoint you would be viewed as overly trusting. The more cautious person looks at the project and says "If this is what we've got for 4 years work then just how long is it going to take you to fulfill all those wonderful promises Mr.Roberts?".
Nothing wrong with being cautious or sceptical, however from everything I have seen the project seems to be progressing just like any typical large scale project I have been in. With this in mind, being overly critical seems completely unwarranted.
I don't get your point here, if you're happy with the progress then great but that doesn't make other people wrong or overly critical because from their viewpoint you would be viewed as overly trusting. The more cautious person looks at the project and says "If this is what we've got for 4 years work then just how long is it going to take you to fulfill all those wonderful promises Mr.Roberts?".
Less than 4 years since the KS btw and 4 years ago they absolutely didn't have "the team" working on the game - the companies had to be set up, people hired, the people to do the hiring hired! All the while raising money.
That aside though this is the question that should be being asked: what is left to be done, how long will it take.
Do we get such discussions though? No. And such thread would probably get derailed by someone saying e.g. "10 years ago CR was in the same city as someone who was found guilty of jay walking so it will never happen". And the thread would get derailed.
Increasingly though it is looking like the game will launch. Even if CR was abducted by aliens tomorrow since the rest of the team would still be there and work flows exist.
For the "alpha" is out there.
And its a two-edged sword. It displays progress and work yet to be done. Good luck with trying to get such a thread going though without someone chiming in that when CR was 2 years old ......
Thing is to remember this is project is 4 years in, it's in early alpha still, BUT they didn't create a bespoke engine, they are using the CryEngine so in theory that should be a huge part of the development cycle done, but it just doesn't feel like it, so much is still missing and they have a mountain of bugs to squash for what they currently do have running.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Thing is to remember this is project is 4 years in, it's in early alpha still, BUT they didn't create a bespoke engine, they are using the CryEngine so in theory that should be a huge part of the development cycle done, but it just doesn't feel like it, so much is still missing and they have a mountain of bugs to squash for what they currently do have running.
They re-wrote the CryEngine from the ground up. Which took time.
Will be interesting to see they advancements in the overall CryEngine when all these improvements come back as feedback to CryTek (just like the two companies agreed to).
They've done extensive modification and converted CE to 64 bit FP to be sure but I don't know that I would call it a rewrite from the ground up. With CryTek now focusing on CE5 I wonder how compatible their changes will be.
They are keeping in touch, especially w.r.t. to the changes to CE5 enabling VR googles.
CIG's modifications are to my knowledge not directly applicable to CE5. But as CryTek is already offering the current CryEngine for free to developers, i have the feeling that the German CIG guys and their old CryTek buddies a few blocks away have a new improved version of CE in mind once SC is out the door. First to be used for CryTeks own games (and SC "mission discs").
Nothing wrong with being cautious or sceptical, however from everything I have seen the project seems to be progressing just like any typical large scale project I have been in. With this in mind, being overly critical seems completely unwarranted.
I don't get your point here, if you're happy with the progress then great but that doesn't make other people wrong or overly critical because from their viewpoint you would be viewed as overly trusting. The more cautious person looks at the project and says "If this is what we've got for 4 years work then just how long is it going to take you to fulfill all those wonderful promises Mr.Roberts?".
Less than 4 years since the KS btw and 4 years ago they absolutely didn't have "the team" working on the game - the companies had to be set up, people hired, the people to do the hiring hired! All the while raising money.
That aside though this is the question that should be being asked: what is left to be done, how long will it take.
Do we get such discussions though? No. And such thread would probably get derailed by someone saying e.g. "10 years ago CR was in the same city as someone who was found guilty of jay walking so it will never happen". And the thread would get derailed.
Increasingly though it is looking like the game will launch. Even if CR was abducted by aliens tomorrow since the rest of the team would still be there and work flows exist.
For the "alpha" is out there.
And its a two-edged sword. It displays progress and work yet to be done. Good luck with trying to get such a thread going though without someone chiming in that when CR was 2 years old ......
so SC development just started somewhen 2 years ago? with an expected AAA title production cycle of 5-8 years you backers are donating 3million a month the next minimum 3-6 years?
Oh and the only workflow that exist is the ship selling workflow all other is chaotic development.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Thing is to remember this is project is 4 years in, it's in early alpha still, BUT they didn't create a bespoke engine, they are using the CryEngine so in theory that should be a huge part of the development cycle done, but it just doesn't feel like it, so much is still missing and they have a mountain of bugs to squash for what they currently do have running.
They re-wrote the CryEngine from the ground up. Which took time.
Will be interesting to see they advancements in the overall CryEngine when all these improvements come back as feedback to CryTek (just like the two companies agreed to).
Have fun
They rewrote the engine? As far as I can see in the code I see Cry all around with some minor changes, maybe there is more - can you please link your sources that they rewrote the engine from CIG directly or did you just made this up for trolling purposes.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Thing is to remember this is project is 4 years in, it's in early alpha still, BUT they didn't create a bespoke engine, they are using the CryEngine so in theory that should be a huge part of the development cycle done, but it just doesn't feel like it, so much is still missing and they have a mountain of bugs to squash for what they currently do have running.
They re-wrote the CryEngine from the ground up. Which took time.
Will be interesting to see they advancements in the overall CryEngine when all these improvements come back as feedback to CryTek (just like the two companies agreed to).
Have fun
They rewrote the engine? As far as I can see in the code I see Cry all around with some minor changes, maybe there is more - can you please link your sources that they rewrote the engine from CIG directly or did you just made this up for trolling purposes.
That comment must be some sort of troll, correct me if that ain't the intention. Only the alpha they have today running already shows rewrites and technology that wasn't by any means possible on cryengine. From a size of a Map and Its Objects to the Physics engine, to the actual item system and several others are rewrites of the CE base code. Many others are still ongoing rewrites as the DX12/Vulkan, Netcode and such.
But who knows, maybe you have a very wide definition of "minor changes".
They rewrote the engine? As far as I can see in the code I see Cry all around with some minor changes, maybe there is more - can you please link your sources that they rewrote the engine from CIG directly or did you just made this up for trolling purposes.
Start here (Ask a dev - Section PROGRAMMING (Engine, API, Hardware, etc)
Development started around October 2011 (Interview with CR where he states they were already a year in development, article was written in October 2012 LINK ) so game is 4+ years in development now.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
They rewrote the engine? As far as I can see in the code I see Cry all around with some minor changes, maybe there is more - can you please link your sources that they rewrote the engine from CIG directly or did you just made this up for trolling purposes.
Start here (Ask a dev - Section PROGRAMMING (Engine, API, Hardware, etc)
with the most relevant answer from Chris Roberts w.r.t. completely rewriting the CryEngine being: ".....as we get up and running and continue to add more content, the engine
itself will be so heavily modified that it won't really resemble the
base engine it came from, because we've got such specific needs for what
we're doing."
with the most relevant answer from Chris Roberts w.r.t. completely rewriting the CryEngine being: ".....as we get up and running and continue to add more content, the engine
itself will be so heavily modified that it won't really resemble the
base engine it came from, because we've got such specific needs for what
we're doing."
Written on Mar 10.2014 once upon a time there was a plan - In the Log I see one Dev that talks about how the CryPeople showed them some tricks and one Dev talking about 64Bit rendering (which is possible but not recommed except SC is shipping their own GPU) But after the initial plans I can not see any statement that talks about how they rewrote the engine, AFAIK it was a hoax that came from the community and the community wanted to believe it.
Basically the proof is in the spaghetti (in this case) because you can see the Cry distribution in the downloaded client, with standard CryEngine FPS, standard CryEngine Physics, standard CryEngine IK, standard CryEngine Ragdoll aaaand advanced elevators (because the ships are handled internally as cryengine would handle an elevator; physic wise).
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
MaxBacon said: [...] Only the alpha they have today running already shows rewrites and technology that wasn't by any means possible on cryengine. From a size of a Map and Its Objects to the Physics engine, to the actual item system and several others are rewrites of the CE base code. Many others are still ongoing rewrites as the DX12/Vulkan, Netcode and such.
But who knows, maybe you have a very wide definition of "minor changes".
[mod edit]
And here are the attacks...
In parts of the engine as physics, they did indeed rewritten the engine code, making it support multiple individual physics grids moving around inside the space physics grid, and so on, something that goes far beyond what CE could possibly do, if they would not rewritten it. You can find actual in-depth developer explanations in what they did with things like the physics grids, witch for me is one of the most impressive things they were able to did with the engine so far.
On things as DX12 and such, the rewrite is more of a refactor of code, it still replaces a ton of code but they aren't dropping it and starting from stratch.
In the end nobody rewrites 100% of any engine as that would be absolute stupidity neither does SC makes use 100% of CE as there's no reason to rewrite things that are already there and are fit, and there's no reason to completely rewrite code you can revamp/refactor, it doesn't changes the fact of the big rewrites they indeed did on the engine.
If you come here stating that the physics grids are nothing but CE physics, the EVA is also nothing but CE rag-dolls (witch btw is more complex than this and comes with other rewrites like the well known several times the character models and the tech behind them on a story with SM on the middle) and such... Then you'll have to excuse me but i can't that seriously.
On a last note, if you keep resorting to insults, baiting and trolling to have a discussion, i'm going to resort to report your posts.
You do not have to believe ME that the engine has been extensively modified. You do not have to believe a CIG dev either. Here is an expert third party opinion from Oct. 2015.
This part my especially interest you: "Star Citizen carries a lot of what we call “Technical Risk,”
loosely translated as “Stuff we have no idea how to do yet.” Much of
that is because nobody’s done it yet, but some of it has been done
before. What I’d look for comes down to two things:
Moving all the risky stuff to the beginning of the project, to find
out how bad the damage is and get the schedule and cost settled down
ASAP, and
Researching how the things that have been done before were done
before, and hopefully, if you can afford it, going and finding the
people who did it and getting them to help.
CIG, from an outsider’s perspective, appears to have failed
comprehensively on both fronts (64bits in June 2015 reads like a miss,
and apparently Smart offered them help at the outset and was ignored —
also a miss), but the company has now paid for that failure by doing
everything itself. We saw a bit of chopping and changing on the engine
front and a few other painful- and expensive-looking things, and going
64bit a few months ago definitely appears to have untangled the log-jam
and finally allowed some more tangible progress. So while risk
management to date, examined by an outsider with hindsight and a
complete lack of knowledge of what’s actually gone on inside the
company, looks clumsy and expensive, it doesn’t appear to have killed
the project, and hopefully the worst is behind us."
If you come here stating that the physics grids are nothing but CE physics, the EVA is also nothing but CE rag-dolls (witch btw is more complex than this and comes with other rewrites like the well known several times the character models and the tech behind them on a story with SM on the middle) and such... Then you'll have to excuse me but i can't that seriously. [...]
EVA is a good example, why do you want to rewrite the engine code and make the whole engine update progress more complicated for a zero-G environment? State: enterEVA - set gravity on player to Zero - apply characterController: Zero-G - disable Head/standing postion IK - enable Zero-G IK - Change FPS fighting to straight raycast instead of Head IK direction Now I can fly around, shoot in the direction my Character is facing and I am controlling the whole body up/down instead of the Head. The bad thing is now that they have a onCollisionEnter to Ragdoll and don't check any Tags on the Ground (and the ground is tagged cause footsteps ) - it is easy to blend an IK to an animation if the Tag is something like walkable ground and you don't even need to check the collision just make something like raycast (6 or more directions, length Character +0.5m) and if hit walkable ground, land on your feet (or do a dodge roll) with a little Ragdoll blending to Landing animation, with 6 Direction raycast you could use 6 different landing animations if you want (on feet, backwards with a turn, headwards with a turn, sideways (l/r and so on)). The raycast check is in the game (on ground you can do things like if State Idle > 5sec and wall is near > blend to leanonwallAnimation > IK to wall >> similar in SC > sliding on a wall while EVAing).
This is logic programming NOT engine programming. And just FYI this is stuff I already did in an engine (though a different setup but the task was similiar)
For this stuff I would never touch the engine code, just because engine code is old and there are parts of Cry1 in Cry3.8 something that connects somewhere together which would take years to figure out (guess what problems we had to DeSpaghetti the 989 Studio Engine code for EQLive or Blizzard had when some of their programmers left after WoWarcraft launched).
You touch the engine only if you want to change basic rendering like "Hey I would like to have the lights only apply to the tesselation but not to the normal map" ("Hey I would like to change the physic scale inside this box to a different scale" is engine too, and I eagerly await the day when they figure out to locate points on different scales [physic bullet cast between 2 or more grids]).
The sad thing is that CR said 'semiquote': "He has chosen Cry over the other engines because he liked how it looked" You know what? (and this is an IMHO no attack whatsoever) If a manager tells me: "Hey Dan we are taking this engine because I like how it looks on screen" - I would recommed to him to better manage the local American Fast Food restaurant. The visual quality on all major engines are the same because they are calculated by DX or GL not by the engine. The basic calculation rendering is done by either forward or deferred rendering (there is no better than it depends what you want to do). Though some engines dazzle with better out of the box shaders (which tend to be useless in the long run).
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
If you come here stating that the physics grids are nothing but CE physics, the EVA is also nothing but CE rag-dolls (witch btw is more complex than this and comes with other rewrites like the well known several times the character models and the tech behind them on a story with SM on the middle) and such... Then you'll have to excuse me but i can't that seriously. [...]
EVA is a good example, why do you want to rewrite the engine code and make the whole engine update progress more complicated for a zero-G environment? State: enterEVA - set gravity on player to Zero - apply characterController: Zero-G - disable Head/standing postion IK - enable Zero-G IK - Change FPS fighting to straight raycast instead of Head IK direction Now I can fly around, shoot in the direction my Character is facing and I am controlling the whole body up/down instead of the Head. The bad thing is now that they have a onCollisionEnter to Ragdoll and don't check any Tags on the Ground (and the ground is tagged cause footsteps ) - it is easy to blend an IK to an animation if the Tag is something like walkable ground and you don't even need to check the collision just make something like raycast (6 or more directions, length Character +0.5m) and if hit walkable ground, land on your feet (or do a dodge roll) with a little Ragdoll blending to Landing animation, with 6 Direction raycast you could use 6 different landing animations if you want (on feet, backwards with a turn, headwards with a turn, sideways (l/r and so on)). The raycast check is in the game (on ground you can do things like if State Idle > 5sec and wall is near > blend to leanonwallAnimation > IK to wall >> similar in SC > sliding on a wall while EVAing).
This is logic programming NOT engine programming. And just FYI this is stuff I already did in an engine (though a different setup but the task was similiar)
For this stuff I would never touch the engine code, just because engine code is old and there are parts of Cry1 in Cry3.8 something that connects somewhere together which would take years to figure out (guess what problems we had to DeSpaghetti the 989 Studio Engine code for EQLive or Blizzard had when some of their programmers left after WoWarcraft launched).
You touch the engine only if you want to change basic rendering like "Hey I would like to have the lights only apply to the tesselation but not to the normal map" ("Hey I would like to change the physic scale inside this box to a different scale" is engine too, and I eagerly await the day when they figure out to locate points on different scales [physic bullet cast between 2 or more grids]).
The sad thing is that CR said 'semiquote': "He has chosen Cry over the other engines because he liked how it looked" You know what? (and this is an IMHO no attack whatsoever) If a manager tells me: "Hey Dan we are taking this engine because I like how it looks on screen" - I would recommed to him to better manage the local American Fast Food restaurant. The visual quality on all major engines are the same because they are calculated by DX or GL not by the engine. The basic calculation rendering is done by either forward or deferred rendering (there is no better than it depends what you want to do). Though some engines dazzle with better out of the box shaders (which tend to be useless in the long run).
And all of that doesn't change any fact about the code that was rewritten on the CIG's CE version to the needs of the SC game currently being developed. Needs that on several aspects go way beyond what CE can by default do, and really need a lot of technology being developed for this game, from physics to netcode to the whole render engine facing the DX12 upgrade.
Oh physics the bullets transitioning between grids is indeed what they are going for, there is a lot of polish to do here, specially on the FPS combat inside a moving physics grid and in-between both. Gosh not even mentioning their biggest challenge that is rewriting this whole core of serialization of the netcode and the technologies necessary to allow an actual MMO to be possible here that is far of what CE was created for.
Otherwise anyone would just grab the default version of CE right on github, and create Star Citizen right away as the only thing CIG did to achieve what we see today as quoting your words was "minor changes" .
On an actual development update, here is some features revealed for 2.5:
So the pirate outpost as we already seen is coming. Landing zones 2.0 seems an improved version of the pad landing and spawning and so on, and items 2.0 that certainly implies the end of the "USE" wonky interact functionality.
Less than 4 years since the KS btw and 4 years ago they absolutely didn't have "the team" working on the game - the companies had to be set up, people hired, the people to do the hiring hired! All the while raising money.
That aside though this is the question that should be being asked: what is left to be done, how long will it take.
Do we get such discussions though? No. And such thread would probably get derailed by someone saying e.g. "10 years ago CR was in the same city as someone who was found guilty of jay walking so it will never happen". And the thread would get derailed.
Increasingly though it is looking like the game will launch. Even if CR was abducted by aliens tomorrow since the rest of the team would still be there and work flows exist.
For the "alpha" is out there.
And its a two-edged sword. It displays progress and work yet to be done. Good luck with trying to get such a thread going though without someone chiming in that when CR was 2 years old ......
so SC development just started somewhen 2 years ago? with an expected AAA title production cycle of 5-8 years you backers are donating 3million a month the next minimum 3-6 years?
Oh and the only workflow that exist is the ship selling workflow all other is chaotic development.
I corrected your 4 years statement. The KS launched in Oct 2012. And that people - erroneously - then assume that a bunch of coders simply get to work. Not the case even in an established company. Let alone one that needs to be set up.
How long have they been working - someone else may have a better answer; almost certainly different teams will have started at different times and there will have been a progressive ramp up. 2 years? Maybe.
How long will it take. Depends. Destiny was released less than 2.5 years after Bungee inked the deal with Activision Blizzard - meaning they had no financing "worries". And they did finish with over 540 employees. Which was certainly less than 5-8 years. Wildstar though was 7 years after Carbine were bought by NCSoft. So how long is it?It varies.
Work flows? We don't know. There is a team churning out backgrounds for the various planets - surprised someone hasn't done an infographic along the lines of the ship one. What has been said though - after they released the alpha - is that they are working to "soft targets" and monthly updates of the alpha rather than the "hard targets" which gave them a lot of problems prior to the alpha releasing. (A good decision imo.)
Which means what should be discussed is what you suggested and I have said for some time. What has been done since the alpha launched. What still needs doing. How close is a playable game. How long will it take. No one wants this discussion though since it reinforces the point that:
The alpha is out there.
And that points to the game releasing. So instead its CR periodically as a 1 year old proving he just can't hack it.
If you come here stating that the physics grids are nothing but CE physics, the EVA is also nothing but CE rag-dolls (witch btw is more complex than this and comes with other rewrites like the well known several times the character models and the tech behind them on a story with SM on the middle) and such... Then you'll have to excuse me but i can't that seriously. [...]
EVA is a good example, why do you want to rewrite the engine code and make the whole engine update progress more complicated for a zero-G environment? State: enterEVA - set gravity on player to Zero - apply characterController: Zero-G - disable Head/standing postion IK - enable Zero-G IK - Change FPS fighting to straight raycast instead of Head IK direction Now I can fly around, shoot in the direction my Character is facing and I am controlling the whole body up/down instead of the Head. The bad thing is now that they have a onCollisionEnter to Ragdoll and don't check any Tags on the Ground (and the ground is tagged cause footsteps ) - it is easy to blend an IK to an animation if the Tag is something like walkable ground and you don't even need to check the collision just make something like raycast (6 or more directions, length Character +0.5m) and if hit walkable ground, land on your feet (or do a dodge roll) with a little Ragdoll blending to Landing animation, with 6 Direction raycast you could use 6 different landing animations if you want (on feet, backwards with a turn, headwards with a turn, sideways (l/r and so on)). The raycast check is in the game (on ground you can do things like if State Idle > 5sec and wall is near > blend to leanonwallAnimation > IK to wall >> similar in SC > sliding on a wall while EVAing).
This is logic programming NOT engine programming. And just FYI this is stuff I already did in an engine (though a different setup but the task was similiar)
For this stuff I would never touch the engine code, just because engine code is old and there are parts of Cry1 in Cry3.8 something that connects somewhere together which would take years to figure out (guess what problems we had to DeSpaghetti the 989 Studio Engine code for EQLive or Blizzard had when some of their programmers left after WoWarcraft launched).
You touch the engine only if you want to change basic rendering like "Hey I would like to have the lights only apply to the tesselation but not to the normal map" ("Hey I would like to change the physic scale inside this box to a different scale" is engine too, and I eagerly await the day when they figure out to locate points on different scales [physic bullet cast between 2 or more grids]).
The sad thing is that CR said 'semiquote': "He has chosen Cry over the other engines because he liked how it looked" You know what? (and this is an IMHO no attack whatsoever) If a manager tells me: "Hey Dan we are taking this engine because I like how it looks on screen" - I would recommed to him to better manage the local American Fast Food restaurant. The visual quality on all major engines are the same because they are calculated by DX or GL not by the engine. The basic calculation rendering is done by either forward or deferred rendering (there is no better than it depends what you want to do). Though some engines dazzle with better out of the box shaders (which tend to be useless in the long run).
And all of that doesn't change any fact about the code that was rewritten on the CIG's CE version to the needs of the SC game currently being developed. Needs that on several aspects go way beyond what CE can by default do, and really need a lot of technology being developed for this game, from physics to netcode to the whole render engine facing the DX12 upgrade.
Oh physics the bullets transitioning between grids is indeed what they are going for, there is a lot of polish to do here, specially on the FPS combat inside a moving physics grid and in-between both. Gosh not even mentioning their biggest challenge that is rewriting this whole core of serialization of the netcode and the technologies necessary to allow an actual MMO to be possible here that is far of what CE was created for.
Otherwise anyone would just grab the default version of CE right on github, and create Star Citizen right away as the only thing CIG did to achieve what we see today as quoting your words was "minor changes" .
CryV is supporting DX12 (CIG is using Cry 3.8.1 which has no release number) , the port from DX11 to DX12 is not a hassle at all (was implemented in march 2015 and officially released a year later), it is a kind of compatibility check when adressing the Libs - The DX12 Libs are doing most of the work. 2 Square Enix guys did the job in 6 weeks in 2015 with King of Wushu (which runs on CryEngine).
MMORPG on CryEngine? Yes I guess the people at Trion Worlds thought the same when they did the Netcode for ArcheAge (which runs on CryEngine).
If I want to create something like Star Citizen, Cryengine (an Isle battling engine) would be by far the worst engine I could use.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Comments
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't get your point here, if you're happy with the progress then great but that doesn't make other people wrong or overly critical because from their viewpoint you would be viewed as overly trusting. The more cautious person looks at the project and says "If this is what we've got for 4 years work then just how long is it going to take you to fulfill all those wonderful promises Mr.Roberts?".
That aside though this is the question that should be being asked: what is left to be done, how long will it take.
Do we get such discussions though? No. And such thread would probably get derailed by someone saying e.g. "10 years ago CR was in the same city as someone who was found guilty of jay walking so it will never happen". And the thread would get derailed.
Increasingly though it is looking like the game will launch. Even if CR was abducted by aliens tomorrow since the rest of the team would still be there and work flows exist.
For the "alpha" is out there.
And its a two-edged sword. It displays progress and work yet to be done. Good luck with trying to get such a thread going though without someone chiming in that when CR was 2 years old ......
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Will be interesting to see they advancements in the overall CryEngine when all these improvements come back as feedback to CryTek (just like the two companies agreed to).
Have fun
With CryTek now focusing on CE5 I wonder how compatible their changes will be.
CIG's modifications are to my knowledge not directly applicable to CE5. But as CryTek is already offering the current CryEngine for free to developers, i have the feeling that the German CIG guys and their old CryTek buddies a few blocks away have a new improved version of CE in mind once SC is out the door. First to be used for CryTeks own games (and SC "mission discs").
Have fun
Oh and the only workflow that exist is the ship selling workflow all other is chaotic development.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
But who knows, maybe you have a very wide definition of "minor changes".
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6644630/#Comment_6644630
You can even ask the developers themselves all the information you want.
Have fun
PS:
If its Trolls you want, you may want to look here:
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
"Well, read it again. Slowly this time." ;-)
Have fun
PS:
In the unlikely case you really ARE interested in answers, you can also try this:
http://www.scqa.info/?keywords=CryEngine_
with the most relevant answer from Chris Roberts w.r.t. completely rewriting the CryEngine being:
".....as we get up and running and continue to add more content, the engine itself will be so heavily modified that it won't really resemble the base engine it came from, because we've got such specific needs for what we're doing."
But after the initial plans I can not see any statement that talks about how they rewrote the engine, AFAIK it was a hoax that came from the community and the community wanted to believe it.
Basically the proof is in the spaghetti (in this case) because you can see the Cry distribution in the downloaded client, with standard CryEngine FPS, standard CryEngine Physics, standard CryEngine IK, standard CryEngine Ragdoll aaaand advanced elevators (because the ships are handled internally as cryengine would handle an elevator; physic wise).
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
In parts of the engine as physics, they did indeed rewritten the engine code, making it support multiple individual physics grids moving around inside the space physics grid, and so on, something that goes far beyond what CE could possibly do, if they would not rewritten it. You can find actual in-depth developer explanations in what they did with things like the physics grids, witch for me is one of the most impressive things they were able to did with the engine so far.
On things as DX12 and such, the rewrite is more of a refactor of code, it still replaces a ton of code but they aren't dropping it and starting from stratch.
In the end nobody rewrites 100% of any engine as that would be absolute stupidity neither does SC makes use 100% of CE as there's no reason to rewrite things that are already there and are fit, and there's no reason to completely rewrite code you can revamp/refactor, it doesn't changes the fact of the big rewrites they indeed did on the engine.
If you come here stating that the physics grids are nothing but CE physics, the EVA is also nothing but CE rag-dolls (witch btw is more complex than this and comes with other rewrites like the well known several times the character models and the tech behind them on a story with SM on the middle) and such... Then you'll have to excuse me but i can't that seriously.
On a last note, if you keep resorting to insults, baiting and trolling to have a discussion, i'm going to resort to report your posts.
You do not have to believe ME that the engine has been extensively modified. You do not have to believe a CIG dev either. Here is an expert third party opinion from Oct. 2015.
http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy
This part my especially interest you:
"Star Citizen carries a lot of what we call “Technical Risk,” loosely translated as “Stuff we have no idea how to do yet.” Much of that is because nobody’s done it yet, but some of it has been done before. What I’d look for comes down to two things:
- Moving all the risky stuff to the beginning of the project, to find
out how bad the damage is and get the schedule and cost settled down
ASAP, and
- Researching how the things that have been done before were done
before, and hopefully, if you can afford it, going and finding the
people who did it and getting them to help.
CIG, from an outsider’s perspective, appears to have failed comprehensively on both fronts (64bits in June 2015 reads like a miss, and apparently Smart offered them help at the outset and was ignored — also a miss), but the company has now paid for that failure by doing everything itself. We saw a bit of chopping and changing on the engine front and a few other painful- and expensive-looking things, and going 64bit a few months ago definitely appears to have untangled the log-jam and finally allowed some more tangible progress. So while risk management to date, examined by an outsider with hindsight and a complete lack of knowledge of what’s actually gone on inside the company, looks clumsy and expensive, it doesn’t appear to have killed the project, and hopefully the worst is behind us."Have fun
State: enterEVA
- set gravity on player to Zero
- apply characterController: Zero-G
- disable Head/standing postion IK
- enable Zero-G IK
- Change FPS fighting to straight raycast instead of Head IK direction
Now I can fly around, shoot in the direction my Character is facing and I am controlling the whole body up/down instead of the Head.
The bad thing is now that they have a onCollisionEnter to Ragdoll and don't check any Tags on the Ground (and the ground is tagged cause footsteps
This is logic programming NOT engine programming.
And just FYI this is stuff I already did in an engine (though a different setup but the task was similiar)
For this stuff I would never touch the engine code, just because engine code is old and there are parts of Cry1 in Cry3.8 something that connects somewhere together which would take years to figure out (guess what problems we had to DeSpaghetti the 989 Studio Engine code for EQLive or Blizzard had when some of their programmers left after WoWarcraft launched).
You touch the engine only if you want to change basic rendering like "Hey I would like to have the lights only apply to the tesselation but not to the normal map" ("Hey I would like to change the physic scale inside this box to a different scale" is engine too, and I eagerly await the day when they figure out to locate points on different scales [physic bullet cast between 2 or more grids]).
The sad thing is that CR said 'semiquote': "He has chosen Cry over the other engines because he liked how it looked"
You know what? (and this is an IMHO no attack whatsoever) If a manager tells me: "Hey Dan we are taking this engine because I like how it looks on screen" - I would recommed to him to better manage the local American Fast Food restaurant.
The visual quality on all major engines are the same because they are calculated by DX or GL not by the engine. The basic calculation rendering is done by either forward or deferred rendering (there is no better than it depends what you want to do). Though some engines dazzle with better out of the box shaders (which tend to be useless in the long run).
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Have fun
And all of that doesn't change any fact about the code that was rewritten on the CIG's CE version to the needs of the SC game currently being developed. Needs that on several aspects go way beyond what CE can by default do, and really need a lot of technology being developed for this game, from physics to netcode to the whole render engine facing the DX12 upgrade.
Oh physics the bullets transitioning between grids is indeed what they are going for, there is a lot of polish to do here, specially on the FPS combat inside a moving physics grid and in-between both. Gosh not even mentioning their biggest challenge that is rewriting this whole core of serialization of the netcode and the technologies necessary to allow an actual MMO to be possible here that is far of what CE was created for.
Otherwise anyone would just grab the default version of CE right on github, and create Star Citizen right away as the only thing CIG did to achieve what we see today as quoting your words was "minor changes" .
So the pirate outpost as we already seen is coming. Landing zones 2.0 seems an improved version of the pad landing and spawning and so on, and items 2.0 that certainly implies the end of the "USE" wonky interact functionality.
How long have they been working - someone else may have a better answer; almost certainly different teams will have started at different times and there will have been a progressive ramp up. 2 years? Maybe.
How long will it take. Depends. Destiny was released less than 2.5 years after Bungee inked the deal with Activision Blizzard - meaning they had no financing "worries". And they did finish with over 540 employees. Which was certainly less than 5-8 years. Wildstar though was 7 years after Carbine were bought by NCSoft. So how long is it?It varies.
Work flows? We don't know. There is a team churning out backgrounds for the various planets - surprised someone hasn't done an infographic along the lines of the ship one. What has been said though - after they released the alpha - is that they are working to "soft targets" and monthly updates of the alpha rather than the "hard targets" which gave them a lot of problems prior to the alpha releasing. (A good decision imo.)
Which means what should be discussed is what you suggested and I have said for some time. What has been done since the alpha launched. What still needs doing. How close is a playable game. How long will it take. No one wants this discussion though since it reinforces the point that:
The alpha is out there.
And that points to the game releasing. So instead its CR periodically as a 1 year old proving he just can't hack it.
2 Square Enix guys did the job in 6 weeks in 2015 with King of Wushu (which runs on CryEngine).
MMORPG on CryEngine? Yes I guess the people at Trion Worlds thought the same when they did the Netcode for ArcheAge (which runs on CryEngine).
If I want to create something like Star Citizen, Cryengine (an Isle battling engine) would be by far the worst engine I could use.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.