Lore is what motivates me in any game. I don't really like to read a bunch of out of game material though. I prefer to be living it while playing. In single player games that's usually like being the star of (hopefully) a good book. In mmorpgs I prefer a more common man approach. I'll use Ultima Online as an example because I believe that more than anything it was a giant of social RPGs.
In uo you started as an average joe. You aren't being pressed into military service or being directed towards a predetermined destiny. Some may argue that the lack of a personal story made for weak lore. However, I saw entire communities spring up with their own stories taking hold and binding them together. The lore grew organically from the combined experiences of the characters and keeps some players engaged to this day.
I also like like games where the lore is more pronounced, yet again through in game means. Build a social hub where players gather for some practical purpose and offer hints and manageable pieces of lore using those places. So one person starts and decides they will take their sword and kill some goblins they saw at the edges of town. They soon gather some loot and exp and head to the tavern in order to buff (eat) and sell a few things. While there they read or hear an npc miner complaining about those goblins and how they've taken over the mine "north of here". I find this more engaging than collecting quests and following waypoints.
To expand maybe that fledgling warrior goes to the mine and while exploring/fighting finds a randomly spawning book that explains the basics of magic/smithing/a forgotten landmark/or some ancient enemy.
As a moderately successful side hobby, I write; and there is something that often holds true: World-builders rarely create a good story, by which I mean an interesting plot, characters, arcs, dialogue, pacing etc. There are exceptions, of course, Tolkien and Martin spring to mind.
But the point is, that if you are of the sort of personality that enjoys intricately creating lore, you probably lack the traits required to make an immersive and interesting story. They are two very different things, and personally, I would take the latter every time.
Yes itmatters a LOLT because i want to see and play a game that looks cohesive in all of it's design. I want to know there is REASON for the creatures,the world the mechanics etc etc.
I absolutely cannot stand games that just looked tossed together to meet a few criteria for a mmorpg,like we have dungeons,we have creatures and we have quests..oh YAY NO THANKS,show me some effort in game design.
Agreed with you completely.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
As a moderately successful side hobby, I write; and there is something that often holds true: World-builders rarely create a good story, by which I mean an interesting plot, characters, arcs, dialogue, pacing etc. There are exceptions, of course, Tolkien and Martin spring to mind.
But the point is, that if you are of the sort of personality that enjoys intricately creating lore, you probably lack the traits required to make an immersive and interesting story. They are two very different things, and personally, I would take the latter every time.
I almost agree, but perhaps I only take the above-mentioned latter every time - in games - unless the builders let the lore sufficiently to be.They could offer some details, let the players refine the often seemingly contradictory lore into nuanced stories and guesses of their own. There are some fine stories in computer games, but they are rare. I'm not saying that amateurs and non-professionals shouldn't write for games - but it still takes certain leap to do it so it's worth the ink/electricity.
Yes it matters. I really like when the townies chat about your latest exploits. Also, it always surprises me when towns have zero children, makes me wonder what happened to them.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yes it matters. I really like when the townies chat about your latest exploits. Also, it always surprises me when towns have zero children, makes me wonder what happened to them.
I always loved the way citizens in COH would talk about players exploits in the game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I usually feel the way Wizardry does. However, if there is not much out there for me to immerse myself into I just play some game until something that sounds interesting comes along. Wizardry is totally right though in my opinion. Many games now have all these pointless quests that mean absolutely nothing other than a method to advance your character's level or something. There's a prominent game out right now that is like that. It's disappointing. I wonder. Can you have adequate or satisfying lore if no one likes themepark games? How much does lore really work with a sandbox mmo?
"Tab, kill, loot" didn't do it anymore and since there is almost no meaningful innovation in nowaday's mmorpg systems, i had to take a different approach to not lose interest. So i started to look into in the whole background story of the things i'm doing in my games.
First thing i figured out is that i probably missed 80% immersion and total gaming experience by never caring for any story, never reading questtexts, never knowing why i kill a boss etc...
Second thing i noticed is that good lore that has enough quality and depth to immerse an adult person with above average expectations to fantasy literature isn't something many games provide.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I rather discover lore than to do a quest in a lot of cases.
There is a griffin roaming that's killing people NPC and PC. The locals all have info on why its happening and what the solution.
Vs.
! NPC, the blah blah blah run down of why I am ordering the savior of light to do this. Follow the golden light and kill the griffin. Bring back its head.
I think that, for instance, Warcraft's amazing lore was a significant reason why I enjoyed WoW so much. Suddenly, you could enter the world where all the amazing events took place .
On the other hand, I have to admit that I played quite many MMORPGs where I did not care about the lore at all.
For me, WoW's lore and stories were so terrible, it was the reason I almost immediately quit.
Sorry pal, but if you "almost immediately quit", then you know nothing about "WoW's lore and stories". Nothing at all.
It certainly possible that there was better writing further in, but when the beginning is poorly thought through, and filled with boring, pedestrian tales, I'm not going to continue. Generic fantasy does not impress. Their sense of humor doesn't appeal to me. And I don't click through the missions. If your initial presentation doesn't cut it, don't complain about folks missing the hidden jewels.
Blizzard's special sauce just doesn't seem to affect me. Don't care for Diablo or Warcraft either.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Depends on the lore. Really got into WoW and EQ1 lore. Loved DAoC but the lore was something I ignored. SWToR on the other hand. I cant eat SW lore fast enough. GW2 on the other hand (had VO main story as well) Was boring and could not get into it.
I think for a game to be 100% immersive then there has to be an awesome lore behind it. It adds so much.
That said, would i play a awful game which has amazing lore but terrible gameplay...probably not. Would i play an amazing gameplay game with no lore..Yeh i would.
I think for a game to be 100% immersive then there has to be an awesome lore behind it. It adds so much.
That said, would i play a awful game which has amazing lore but terrible gameplay...probably not. Would i play an amazing gameplay game with no lore..Yeh i would.
I think I fall closer to somewhere in the ~50% range. Depending on the game, world, and how the lore is made etc. Sometimes I'll skip it entirely if it's not particularly interesting. Sometimes I'll get by with just getting the basic idea of what's going on in the lore through in-game texts. Sometimes It'll catch my attention and I end up absorbing all of it. It varies a lot.
I think that, for instance, Warcraft's amazing lore was a significant reason why I enjoyed WoW so much. Suddenly, you could enter the world where all the amazing events took place .
On the other hand, I have to admit that I played quite many MMORPGs where I did not care about the lore at all.
For me, WoW's lore and stories were so terrible, it was the reason I almost immediately quit.
Sorry pal, but if you "almost immediately quit", then you know nothing about "WoW's lore and stories". Nothing at all.
It's not he players job to stay around long enough to be impressed by a game. When I first played WoW soon after release I found it boring and quit. The original races starting areas aren't that gripping. Later I tried again as a Draenei and got into the game more.
It is both a yes and a no type question. Lore matters the more a player becomes invested into the game. At the start it is irrelevant, but the more a player enjoys the game the more they may want to know.
Lore can be fun to read if its well written but once I get into an MMORPG I care more for gameplay. The few times lore can make a difference is when writers manage to weave it into the story that feels appropriate and gives a good context to what is currently happening.
Its rare for me to get invested in the gameworld of an mmorpg so lore isn't important for me.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I must admit I'm not like players who have memorized every bit of lore they could find and are constantly correctly people about past in-game events that happened seven thousand years ago.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I must admit I'm not like players who have memorized every bit of lore they could find and are constantly correctly people about past in-game events that happened seven thousand years ago.
Neither am I but I also appreciate having a full backdrop of lore(that I am able to access, preferably in the game but also by external means, ie books, website, movies) that explains why certain objectives in the game are desirable(depending on the player's choice in faction, class, etc) and the methods available to help achieve those objectives.
A good opening clip for a game helps immensely, followed by a basic walk through(hands on) scene to help orient the player and give them a feel for the tools/weapons/skills can be desirable.(able to be bypassed in options after the first play through) After that, give the player a choice of locations that their character can start their adventure and let the fun begin!
Lore adds to the immersion when role playing in a game and imo without immersing the players in it at the beginning few players are likely to engage in it, instead rushing to the kind of game play that they traditionally prefer, which often doesn't even need the rp, just the mmo, to participate in and often disrupts the flow of the game for others.
Heck, without a back story(lore), I might as well be playing an online card game or one of those facebook games, even
Mario had a story(rescue the princess) ...
Comments
In uo you started as an average joe. You aren't being pressed into military service or being directed towards a predetermined destiny. Some may argue that the lack of a personal story made for weak lore. However, I saw entire communities spring up with their own stories taking hold and binding them together. The lore grew organically from the combined experiences of the characters and keeps some players engaged to this day.
I also like like games where the lore is more pronounced, yet again through in game means. Build a social hub where players gather for some practical purpose and offer hints and manageable pieces of lore using those places. So one person starts and decides they will take their sword and kill some goblins they saw at the edges of town. They soon gather some loot and exp and head to the tavern in order to buff (eat) and sell a few things. While there they read or hear an npc miner complaining about those goblins and how they've taken over the mine "north of here". I find this more engaging than collecting quests and following waypoints.
To expand maybe that fledgling warrior goes to the mine and while exploring/fighting finds a randomly spawning book that explains the basics of magic/smithing/a forgotten landmark/or some ancient enemy.
But the point is, that if you are of the sort of personality that enjoys intricately creating lore, you probably lack the traits required to make an immersive and interesting story. They are two very different things, and personally, I would take the latter every time.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I almost agree, but perhaps I only take the above-mentioned latter every time - in games - unless the builders let the lore sufficiently to be.They could offer some details, let the players refine the often seemingly contradictory lore into nuanced stories and guesses of their own. There are some fine stories in computer games, but they are rare. I'm not saying that amateurs and non-professionals shouldn't write for games - but it still takes certain leap to do it so it's worth the ink/electricity.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I always loved the way citizens in COH would talk about players exploits in the game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"Tab, kill, loot" didn't do it anymore and since there is almost no meaningful innovation in nowaday's mmorpg systems, i had to take a different approach to not lose interest. So i started to look into in the whole background story of the things i'm doing in my games.
First thing i figured out is that i probably missed 80% immersion and total gaming experience by never caring for any story, never reading questtexts, never knowing why i kill a boss etc...
Second thing i noticed is that good lore that has enough quality and depth to immerse an adult person with above average expectations to fantasy literature isn't something many games provide.
So that puts me among the 66%ers now.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There is a griffin roaming that's killing people NPC and PC. The locals all have info on why its happening and what the solution.
Vs.
! NPC, the blah blah blah run down of why I am ordering the savior of light to do this. Follow the golden light and kill the griffin. Bring back its head.
It certainly possible that there was better writing further in, but when the beginning is poorly thought through, and filled with boring, pedestrian tales, I'm not going to continue. Generic fantasy does not impress. Their sense of humor doesn't appeal to me. And I don't click through the missions. If your initial presentation doesn't cut it, don't complain about folks missing the hidden jewels.
Blizzard's special sauce just doesn't seem to affect me. Don't care for Diablo or Warcraft either.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
That said, would i play a awful game which has amazing lore but terrible gameplay...probably not.
Would i play an amazing gameplay game with no lore..Yeh i would.
Still i love me some law.
How would lore matter? That would be a more interesting question I think.
Its rare for me to get invested in the gameworld of an mmorpg so lore isn't important for me.
You could have said it better. You could have spelled 'Lore' correctly, whereas i spelled it wrong. lol
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
A good opening clip for a game helps immensely, followed by a basic walk through(hands on) scene to help orient the player and give them a feel for the tools/weapons/skills can be desirable.(able to be bypassed in options after the first play through) After that, give the player a choice of locations that their character can start their adventure and let the fun begin!
Lore adds to the immersion when role playing in a game and imo without immersing the players in it at the beginning few players are likely to engage in it, instead rushing to the kind of game play that they traditionally prefer, which often doesn't even need the rp, just the mmo, to participate in and often disrupts the flow of the game for others.
Heck, without a back story(lore), I might as well be playing an online card game or one of those facebook games, even Mario had a story(rescue the princess) ...