Bill, my man, all my love, but this is lighting fires. Also, I'll reply to a few things:
5. The main objection to lockboxes I have is that it is unregulated gambling... not saying they aren't fun, and honestly the best thing folks can do is just not buy them if they don't like them. (P.S. I like lock boxes from some companies.)
4. Totes agree.
3. Playerbase hyperbole over P2W has gotten to the point that my friends and guildies ignore cries of P2W by default. Cry wolf too much and no one will care. And yes, PvE, what is the win condition? No one has been able to answer that for me.
2. Sandbox and themepark designs are comparing apples to oranges, one is not better than the other.
1. Localization CAN be censorship they are not inherently opposite, but the company needs to do what it believes will best sell it's product. If you don't like how it is localized, don't give the company money and their portfolio will suffer. Wallets are far more powerful than tumblr blogs. Companies are courting cash, not cultural sensitivity. (Chinese regulations have greatly relaxed recently too!).
I think for me it's pretty simple when it comed to video game complants - ask yourself "is this within my realm of control" before complaining?
If it's a game feature or an idea for doing something better - feedback to devs is the way to go.
If it's something that is entirely outside of my control - such as how pricing scheme is setup for a game - that's none of my business, if I don't like it I simply don't have to buy or play.
Taking a perspective where gamers think they have a right to dictate how companies sell their products is just a big pet peeve of mine.
Entertainers can charge whatever they want for their products, a Vegas show that is $500, it's their right to ask for that price.
So can game companies - it's their right to set pricing for their product.
I mean if you don't want to pay for entertainment - DON'T, just move on, but please drop the pretense that somehow you should be dictating pricing models to game companies.
Finally video games are not a human right, nobody is entitled to play "fair to all online video games".
When a video game sells Rng lootbox it's not a Geneva convention violation
Indeed!
It's almost like posting over 13k posts, with lots of em being complaints on other peoples opinions, in a video game forum where you have absolutely no control over what others post or how they post their opinion.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So games have many of the problems bill listed, Pay 2 Win is a real problem but what do you care if a company puts cosmetics in a lock box and let people gamble for it. Sure they could just charge as much for the outfit as they would for 100 boxes but then people would cry about that. Bill is more or less right about all the points he made...
I will keep my opinions out of this one but @BillMurphy props to you for writing and posting a very divisive piece. For anyone who thinks these guys are paid off to say certain things or support certain games are misguided. I look forward to reading more pieces like this on this site. Suzie you are next up!
Haha -- not touching this one with a 10...or 1000 foot pole.
I guess I just love games, to play them, to experience them. When they cease to be fun for whatever reason, I find a game I like more and go there. I don't have enough hours in the day to waste playing games that stopped being fun and / or make me feel as if my time is being impacted in a negative way by others, however that happens.
I similarly have no time for negativity in my life. Enough of that in the big outside world. I play games to relax and have fun. I'm not going to sink into the morass that complaining embodies _to me_. I voice my concerns once, wait to see if it's fixed. If it's not, I move on. End of story.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
1 Localization: I do not feel many complain about it,to me it is common sense,some know why some don't,no biggie.
2 Sandbox-Themepark yes i agree both terms are not accurate anyhow,especially sandbox since pretty much nothing is a sandbox,unless your playing Minecraft and even that is limited by the assets/tools.
However a developer SHOULD be labeling their games properly and imo MOS tmmorpg's are not mmorpg's,simply online games.
3 P2W ,not sure what it means by NOT everything is pay to win?I think every single person understands it quite fully,if it is a part of the game and you can simply buy it from some virtual market,it is p2w,you WIN the prize by simply BUYING it instead of earning it.
In it's simplest form,it is like going to the carnival and paying an extra $10 bucks to just take the stuffed animal instead of earning it.
4 Carebears/Noobs Most certainly agree as BOTH terms are NOT meant to categorize but instead meant to be derogative.
5 Lockboxes :Not sure ANY sane person can claim these are a just item in any game,especially if we are talking about cash shop items or rmt.
Funny thing about RNG and marketing is the seller will be quick to tell you have a chance of "winning" but never tell you that you have a 95-97% chance of losing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Hello, Bill. Let's say we were playing Dungeons & Dragons on a tabletop. As we're playing, the DM offers to individually increase everyone's health and stats as long as they keep slipping him a 20 dollar bill. Would you find this to be fun? Is it fair to players who don't have the money? Would you complain if a paying player just so happened to survive in PvP -- by a few hit points -- due to his +5 constitution p2w cloak?
Each item that you purchase from a cash shop that increases your survivability (even by a little bit) is pay to win. Any mathematical advantage you have over another player of equivalent equipment/level is unfair.
But what exactly are you winning? Getting farther than another nameless player? Also your example is flawed in the sense that there is no one DM or group playing in an MMO. Its more akin to a bunch of strangers existing in the same space.
I understand that some people get upset if someone else can do something before they can because they paid money, but lets be real... they aren't "winning" anything over you.
The PvP argument has a bit more weight, but I dont play games to be competitive, just to have fun.
Again, another corrupted journalist, time to say goodbye to this website, the mmo genre is dead
A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I may not agree on all points, but I love the spirited conversation that those with mature viewpoints can hold.
I wanted Bill to add "stop complaining about games you don't like. If you don't like them, move on and keep your trap shut". But...that could fuel enough volumes to put Encyclopedia Britannica to shame.
Really though I want people to let us know if a game is bad...If they remain quiet about it then alot of us others are going to get burned (like No Mans Sky).......This should be a site about various opinions (good and bad) of games so we can get a handle on whether or not we want to play a certain MMO.
And I think that's part of the problem. No one can tell me if a game is bad based on their opinion. Especially when I find most opinions off from the reality or the perspective that I may see it from. Sharing the fact that someone hates a game doesn't help in any educated type of decision to play a game or not.
Even if someone hates a game, is it so hard to just stick to the reasons why they think the game is bad instead of bashing it?
@BillMurphy, I agree with most of what you had to say there... but sadly, complaining loudly and frequently is something that some people will do as long as they think they have something to gain from doing it.
Like a kid who screams for candy in a crowded supermarket, they're hoping to get some concessions simply by being loud and unpleasant. If they get suspended for a few days, they'll be back as soon as it's over, screaming just as loudly.
And all too often, game management and customer support have been happy to give it to them just to get them to be quiet.
Parents who do this are called enablers for a reason--game companies should take note.
Nice article Bill. I'd all but given up on the self entitled blowhards that are populating this genre. I'd rather just enjoy the games that I do without the butthurt sound effects. Carry on good sir.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well, I was with you until you mentioned the Elin master race... Even I have limits Bill... ^^ Mix equal parts corruption/nationalization, and pursuit of the all mighty dollar, and you have many of the problems we see.
Cross that with one of the most entitled, spoiled generations in a very long time, and the results are bound to be a disaster.
But as you once said, some people just want to watch the world burn... ^^
If we all the sudden stopped discussing Lockboxes, PVP, P2W, Sandboxes / Themeparks, localzation....oh and opinions about opinions, there would be nothing left of MMORPG.com.
There seems to be a very distinct line. There are those that see this as their genre and, as such, see many of these things as violations of it (hardcore enthusiasts, to assign a relatively arbitrary name.). There are also those that play games in this genre that fit their interests and skip those that don't(casual enthusiasts).
Neither view is right or wrong. The problem here is that the hardcore enthusiasts view the casuals as apathetic towards what they consider serious issues. Some feel the perceived apathy is part of the reason the issues exist or persist.
Here's the good and the bad - the bad is that this will never change. The good news? Every group of passionate people experience the same thing, so you're not alone.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
While I agree there is probably a lot more complaining going on than is warranted (best thing to do is to vote with your wallet, and time), I can not agree that the solution is simply for everyone to STFU, especially in the case of 5. and 3.
5. Random loot boxes purchased for real life money (or some avenue to do so), a.k.a gambling boxes, are, as far as I'm concerned, never acceptable. If you want to sell items, just sell the damn items, but do not lead people into addictive behavior where they could potential spend hundreds, or even thousands of dollars for the promise of a virtual item (or some other 'big win'). And if people have money to burn, they can always donate it.
3. While I don't generally have a problem with how people spend their money, and don't particularly care about having BiS gear, any form of pay to win, or even pay to progress that wasn't explicitly stated UP FRONT (i.e. you will need to buy DLC to unlock a new area), is just bad game design, and like 5. just not something I am ever going to tolerate.
1. taking names I want to use
2. pulling mobs before I can get to them
3. ninja looting all the loot, all the loot belongs to me!
4. wearing any outfit I want to wear, no duplicates allowed
5. playing the tank, I want to be the tank!
Managing Editor of the website basically telling his community to "stfu". This just 3 weeks after scapegoating website devs when he failed for a second time to upgrade his own website.
The Lockbox one is an oddity, as it seems to not be ubiquitous amongst the MMO crowd to complain about such things.
One thing that comes to my mind that MMO players should not complain about: Indy Development. It seems quite common, especially on this site, for players to complain about the Indy MMO Development scene. Often criticising the pace of development, the quality, the design choices...the list really goes on. Not every game can be AAA.
5 things the people who run this site should stop doing.
1. Calling themselves journalists 2. Pretending to be actual gamers 3. Pretending they are anything but shills for dishonest developers 4. Censoring and banning people who are critical of shady developers 5. Cashing a paycheck when they can't do a simple upgrade because they refuse to invest in their site.
Comments
5. The main objection to lockboxes I have is that it is unregulated gambling... not saying they aren't fun, and honestly the best thing folks can do is just not buy them if they don't like them. (P.S. I like lock boxes from some companies.)
4. Totes agree.
3. Playerbase hyperbole over P2W has gotten to the point that my friends and guildies ignore cries of P2W by default. Cry wolf too much and no one will care. And yes, PvE, what is the win condition? No one has been able to answer that for me.
2. Sandbox and themepark designs are comparing apples to oranges, one is not better than the other.
1. Localization CAN be censorship they are not inherently opposite, but the company needs to do what it believes will best sell it's product. If you don't like how it is localized, don't give the company money and their portfolio will suffer. Wallets are far more powerful than tumblr blogs. Companies are courting cash, not cultural sensitivity. (Chinese regulations have greatly relaxed recently too!).
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
It's almost like posting over 13k posts, with lots of em being complaints on other peoples opinions, in a video game forum where you have absolutely no control over what others post or how they post their opinion.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I guess I just love games, to play them, to experience them. When they cease to be fun for whatever reason, I find a game I like more and go there. I don't have enough hours in the day to waste playing games that stopped being fun and / or make me feel as if my time is being impacted in a negative way by others, however that happens.
I similarly have no time for negativity in my life. Enough of that in the big outside world. I play games to relax and have fun. I'm not going to sink into the morass that complaining embodies _to me_. I voice my concerns once, wait to see if it's fixed. If it's not, I move on. End of story.
Soon Legion and then who knows?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
2 Sandbox-Themepark yes i agree both terms are not accurate anyhow,especially sandbox since pretty much nothing is a sandbox,unless your playing Minecraft and even that is limited by the assets/tools.
However a developer SHOULD be labeling their games properly and imo MOS tmmorpg's are not mmorpg's,simply online games.
3 P2W ,not sure what it means by NOT everything is pay to win?I think every single person understands it quite fully,if it is a part of the game and you can simply buy it from some virtual market,it is p2w,you WIN the prize by simply BUYING it instead of earning it.
In it's simplest form,it is like going to the carnival and paying an extra $10 bucks to just take the stuffed animal instead of earning it.
4 Carebears/Noobs Most certainly agree as BOTH terms are NOT meant to categorize but instead meant to be derogative.
5 Lockboxes :Not sure ANY sane person can claim these are a just item in any game,especially if we are talking about cash shop items or rmt.
Funny thing about RNG and marketing is the seller will be quick to tell you have a chance of "winning" but never tell you that you have a 95-97% chance of losing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But what exactly are you winning? Getting farther than another nameless player? Also your example is flawed in the sense that there is no one DM or group playing in an MMO. Its more akin to a bunch of strangers existing in the same space.
I understand that some people get upset if someone else can do something before they can because they paid money, but lets be real... they aren't "winning" anything over you.
The PvP argument has a bit more weight, but I dont play games to be competitive, just to have fun.
And I think that's part of the problem. No one can tell me if a game is bad based on their opinion. Especially when I find most opinions off from the reality or the perspective that I may see it from. Sharing the fact that someone hates a game doesn't help in any educated type of decision to play a game or not.
Even if someone hates a game, is it so hard to just stick to the reasons why they think the game is bad instead of bashing it?
Like a kid who screams for candy in a crowded supermarket, they're hoping to get some concessions simply by being loud and unpleasant. If they get suspended for a few days, they'll be back as soon as it's over, screaming just as loudly.
And all too often, game management and customer support have been happy to give it to them just to get them to be quiet.
Parents who do this are called enablers for a reason--game companies should take note.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Apologists who accept sub-standard products are 10x worse than anybody who complains about something aka a rational consumer.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Cross that with one of the most entitled, spoiled generations in a very long time, and the results are bound to be a disaster.
But as you once said, some people just want to watch the world burn... ^^
There seems to be a very distinct line. There are those that see this as their genre and, as such, see many of these things as violations of it (hardcore enthusiasts, to assign a relatively arbitrary name.). There are also those that play games in this genre that fit their interests and skip those that don't(casual enthusiasts).
Neither view is right or wrong. The problem here is that the hardcore enthusiasts view the casuals as apathetic towards what they consider serious issues. Some feel the perceived apathy is part of the reason the issues exist or persist.
Here's the good and the bad - the bad is that this will never change. The good news? Every group of passionate people experience the same thing, so you're not alone.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
5. Random loot boxes purchased for real life money (or some avenue to do so), a.k.a gambling boxes, are, as far as I'm concerned, never acceptable. If you want to sell items, just sell the damn items, but do not lead people into addictive behavior where they could potential spend hundreds, or even thousands of dollars for the promise of a virtual item (or some other 'big win'). And if people have money to burn, they can always donate it.
3. While I don't generally have a problem with how people spend their money, and don't particularly care about having BiS gear, any form of pay to win, or even pay to progress that wasn't explicitly stated UP FRONT (i.e. you will need to buy DLC to unlock a new area), is just bad game design, and like 5. just not something I am ever going to tolerate.
1. taking names I want to use
2. pulling mobs before I can get to them
3. ninja looting all the loot, all the loot belongs to me!
4. wearing any outfit I want to wear, no duplicates allowed
5. playing the tank, I want to be the tank!
Classy.
One thing that comes to my mind that MMO players should not complain about: Indy Development. It seems quite common, especially on this site, for players to complain about the Indy MMO Development scene. Often criticising the pace of development, the quality, the design choices...the list really goes on. Not every game can be AAA.
1. Calling themselves journalists
2. Pretending to be actual gamers
3. Pretending they are anything but shills for dishonest developers
4. Censoring and banning people who are critical of shady developers
5. Cashing a paycheck when they can't do a simple upgrade because they refuse to invest in their site.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **