Current VR is nothing more than a tech demo you pay out the bum for

Tiller

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

SEANMCAD

its not worth it for you. 

You have done your due diligence and you clearly should stay away.

I however do not regret my purchase(s) at all. Consider yourself lucky that you didnt buy one of the headsets.

maskedweasel

There are some games I feel are more than a tech demo,  and inexpensive for those that have compatible phones.  I feel like PC VR at the current time is not worth the cost,  but with phone VR you can mimic about 60 - 70 percent of PC VR with about 80 - 90 percent of what you can do on the Rift.  

With that said,  I don't consider my phone purchase a VR purchase,  but I would suspect that if you consider the Note7 as a VR device you're looking at nearly 1100 dollars to get setup with everything you'd need.

Even still I don't feel VR will have as big of an impact as a lot of the overzealous VR fans think it will.  But I do own a VR system,  and plan to get PSVR by the end of the year,  and I'm not even really a VR fan.

I do believe there will be experiences that will be worth it,  and as I'm more well off than some of my friends  (and especially the kids)  I prefer putting up the expense so that they don't have to.  

I do believe that VR will be an okay distraction while I await more capable AR systems to hit the market.

Octagon7711

Unless you're a technophile I would wait until the dust settles on VR.  Now they're working out the bugs.

SEANMCAD

Octagon7711 said:

Unless you're a technophile I would wait until the dust settles on VR.  Now they're working out the bugs.

totally agree

12 months from this october I think is a good time even for early adopter types to then take a serious look

Sovrath

Tiller said:

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

It's a good point and I won't pay for any VR equipment until there is an absolute finished game to play. Once that happens it's a no brainer as it is a very unique game play experience.

But yeah, there is nothing out now that will entice me to buy.

RPGMASTERGAMER

porn VR make it worth it

SEANMCAD

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

It's a good point and I won't pay for any VR equipment until there is an absolute finished game to play. Once that happens it's a no brainer as it is a very unique game play experience.

But yeah, there is nothing out now that will entice me to buy.

Esper 2, Dirt, Elite Dangerous, Eve Valkyrie are all completed game that I have tried. Esper 2 in VR is very good.

maskedweasel

RPGMASTERGAMER said:

porn VR make it worth it

I beg to differ on that one.  In general most VR recorded video is poorly done.  The best cameras available for VR recording are in the tens of thousands.  Even high end consumer VR  cameras aren't particularly great.

Besides...  any actual video based VR only requires a low - google cardboard based - vr system.  Cardboard or gear vr systems can be as high as 100 dollars for the new gear vr.. to 50 dollars for the old model,  to 20 dollars for some cardboard like systems,  to free.

Sovrath

SEANMCAD said:

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

It's a good point and I won't pay for any VR equipment until there is an absolute finished game to play. Once that happens it's a no brainer as it is a very unique game play experience.

But yeah, there is nothing out now that will entice me to buy.

Esper 2, Dirt, Elite Dangerous, Eve Valkyrie are all completed game that I have tried. Esper 2 in VR is very good.

hmmmm, not sure if any of those will really fit the bill for me. Maybe Esper 2. Still, not enough for me to drop the money. When Doom and Resident Evil hit then "yes".

Heck, I might even play Fallout.

SEANMCAD

Sovrath said:

SEANMCAD said:

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

It's a good point and I won't pay for any VR equipment until there is an absolute finished game to play. Once that happens it's a no brainer as it is a very unique game play experience.

But yeah, there is nothing out now that will entice me to buy.

Esper 2, Dirt, Elite Dangerous, Eve Valkyrie are all completed game that I have tried. Esper 2 in VR is very good.

hmmmm, not sure if any of those will really fit the bill for me. Maybe Esper 2. Still, not enough for me to drop the money. When Doom and Resident Evil hit then "yes".

Heck, I might even play Fallout.

I would basically consider revising your original statement then if you follow my suggestion

maskedweasel

Sovrath said:

SEANMCAD said:

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

Literally every supposed game I have seen is nothing more than a free or paid tech demo. How is it worth paying $900 for the HTC Vive just to watch tech demos that at times cause nausea ?  The fans of VR act like it's the second coming and get real defensive over any form of skepticism. Like if you don't like it there is something wrong with you and talking negatively about might hurt the chances of it going more mainstream. By the time the industry can actually create something worthy of calling a decent VR only title, this current tech will be nothing more than a bookshelf dust collector you paid a shitton for. Anyone else feel the same?

It's a good point and I won't pay for any VR equipment until there is an absolute finished game to play. Once that happens it's a no brainer as it is a very unique game play experience.

But yeah, there is nothing out now that will entice me to buy.

Esper 2, Dirt, Elite Dangerous, Eve Valkyrie are all completed game that I have tried. Esper 2 in VR is very good.

hmmmm, not sure if any of those will really fit the bill for me. Maybe Esper 2. Still, not enough for me to drop the money. When Doom and Resident Evil hit then "yes".

Heck, I might even play Fallout.

esper 2 is available on gear VR without vridge or anything, if you have a samsung phone that fits the bill, it shouldn't be tough for you to try it now.

gervaise1

maskedweasel said:

RPGMASTERGAMER said:

<snip>

<snip>  In general most VR recorded video is poorly done.  The best cameras available for VR recording are in the tens of thousands.  <snip>

A factor for sure.

And its chicken and egg. And not even volume sales and big investment guarantee "success" e.g. past major investments in VR; Wii Balance Board; Microsoft touch screens c. 20 years before the tech took off; MS and Sony's motion sensors etc.

This time  around - probably in a few years - looks possible. Cameras are getting smaller, more powerful and cheaper - there is even a kickstarter for a new 16 lens HD VR system $5k backers, $10k price when it launches - year end-ish from memory. 

And the weight of any component needed for headsets is shrinking. Headsets will have to be light weight. 

And as development plays out it may mean that the current big investors are by-passed by new companies or maybe "old new" companies like Sony.

SEANMCAD

gervaise1 said:

maskedweasel said:

RPGMASTERGAMER said:

<snip>

<snip>  In general most VR recorded video is poorly done.  The best cameras available for VR recording are in the tens of thousands.  <snip>

A factor for sure.

And its chicken and egg. And not even volume sales and big investment guarantee "success" e.g. past major investments in VR; Wii Balance Board; Microsoft touch screens c. 20 years before the tech took off; MS and Sony's motion sensors etc.

This time  around - probably in a few years - looks possible. Cameras are getting smaller, more powerful and cheaper - there is even a kickstarter for a new 16 lens HD VR system $5k backers, $10k price when it launches - year end-ish from memory. 

And the weight of any component needed for headsets is shrinking. Headsets will have to be light weight. 

And as development plays out it may mean that the current big investors are by-passed by new companies or maybe "old new" companies like Sony.

I dont think outside of the Internet and maybe cable TV has there been more money adjusted for inflation ever been investment in a consumer technology in history sense the public freeway system

Clearly I am not sure about that but safe to say its a fuck ton.

gervaise1

VR investment is major for sure - although you have to distinguish "acquisition cost" with "development cost".

There are a huge number of major consumer investments however. Any time you start to build factories or set up shops or build data centres (just look what Amazon etc. are spending) costs sky rocket. And that is if they don't explode on take off. Some make it, some don't.

Ignoring such classic failures as the Edsel, the Phillips Laser Disk, Sony Betamax, RDRAM (Rambus proprietary memory) to name just a few - before you start to think about corporate meltdowns like e.g. Nokia - on the VR side Nintendo lost a "non-trivial" sum.

Nintendo worked on VR as far back as the 1980's but in 1995 they launched the Virtual Boy. Several years in development, a dedicated factory built, games developed as well as huge marketing. After sales of only - only - 770,000 it was canned leaving "millions" unsold. Probably a billion dollar loss just on the Virtual Boy.

That is not to say I think this iteration of VR will fail. It might not but it may still takes years. Where is the Wii balance board now for example? Or as I said look at touch screens that today are the norm - after MS launched their first device 20 years ago. When it was the big thing - for years and years until it wasn't and then suddenly took off.

SEANMCAD

gervaise1 said:

VR investment is major for sure - although you have to distinguish "acquisition cost" with "development cost".

There are a huge number of major consumer investments however. Any time you start to build factories or set up shops or build data centres (just look what Amazon etc. are spending) costs sky rocket. And that is if they don't explode on take off. Some make it, some don't.

Ignoring such classic failures as the Edsel, the Phillips Laser Disk, Sony Betamax, RDRAM (Rambus proprietary memory) to name just a few - before you start to think about corporate meltdowns like e.g. Nokia - on the VR side Nintendo lost a "non-trivial" sum.

Nintendo worked on VR as far back as the 1980's but in 1995 they launched the Virtual Boy. Several years in development, a dedicated factory built, games developed as well as huge marketing. After sales of only - only - 770,000 it was canned leaving "millions" unsold. Probably a billion dollar loss just on the Virtual Boy.

That is not to say I think this iteration of VR will fail. It might not but it may still takes years. Where is the Wii balance board now for example? Or as I said look at touch screens that today are the norm - after MS launched their first device 20 years ago. When it was the big thing - for years and years until it wasn't and then suddenly took off.

your argument seems to be 'because new tech has failed in the past its likely to happen with VR'

I think your standing on a really weak position. Amazon started as a small online book seller, Microsoft started as a small company, Apple started as a small company. why do you focus on the bad examples and not the good examples?

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

gervaise1 said:

VR investment is major for sure - although you have to distinguish "acquisition cost" with "development cost".

There are a huge number of major consumer investments however. Any time you start to build factories or set up shops or build data centres (just look what Amazon etc. are spending) costs sky rocket. And that is if they don't explode on take off. Some make it, some don't.

Ignoring such classic failures as the Edsel, the Phillips Laser Disk, Sony Betamax, RDRAM (Rambus proprietary memory) to name just a few - before you start to think about corporate meltdowns like e.g. Nokia - on the VR side Nintendo lost a "non-trivial" sum.

Nintendo worked on VR as far back as the 1980's but in 1995 they launched the Virtual Boy. Several years in development, a dedicated factory built, games developed as well as huge marketing. After sales of only - only - 770,000 it was canned leaving "millions" unsold. Probably a billion dollar loss just on the Virtual Boy.

That is not to say I think this iteration of VR will fail. It might not but it may still takes years. Where is the Wii balance board now for example? Or as I said look at touch screens that today are the norm - after MS launched their first device 20 years ago. When it was the big thing - for years and years until it wasn't and then suddenly took off.

your argument seems to be 'because new tech has failed in the past its likely to happen with VR'

I think your standing on a really weak position. Amazon started as a small online book seller, Microsoft started as a small company, Apple started as a small company. why do you focus on the bad examples and not the good examples?

No, that isn't really a weak argument.  Comparable technologies, almost all of them have failed, and even in many cases smart phones -  in which development costs across the board far exceed any investment in VR, is looking to be also on the decline.  We're talking about more accessible technologies than VR, that were expected to grow at triple the rate, showing declines in years analysts expected them to grow.

VR in just about every case is a frivolous expense.  I wouldn't consider it on anyone's radar,  but as costs come down, interested parties would likely buy into it.  Make anything cheap enough and it can become a "good deal" for entertainments sake.  Do you think if 60 Inch 3D TV's were only 300 dollars people wouldn't be all over them?

Also, as far as your examples,  Apple was virtually Bankrupt in the 90s until Microsoft bailed them out.  Yes microsoft.

http://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

Microsoft has had numerous failures in dozens of emerging markets with new technology,  and Amazon is a retail chain, having little to do with actual technology aside from them being online.   They too have failed in their technological ventures -- whatever happened to the Amazon Fire Phone?  What about the Kindles?  They aren't even on the radar of decent tablets, and another reason why they don't come out with updated models more often.  They don't really make much money.

And lastly, Amazon Echo... the revolutionary product they touted when it came out.. sold out everywhere...  ... barely sold 3 Million units total, and now has stiff competition from Google Home and others now on the market.  In the next couple years you'll be asking "What was Amazon Echo."   

Phry

VR for the moment, remains a very niche product, its not mainstream, and its unlikely that developers are going to expend that much resources on VR specific software/games until there are enough units out there to make it profitable, and thats not yet, so its likely that most VR games/apps etc. will probably not progress much beyond the 'tech demo' stage, at least for a few years, it all depends on how sales of VR hardware goes, which currently its stalled almost completely, which is not a good sign, whether PS VR will change this, remains to be seen.
So VR is not the 'big' thing in 2016, and it probably won't be in 2017 either, but by 2020, it might be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNQvLrfYnv8
The Know, its also mostly opinion based too, but there are some interesting figures obtained from Steam etc.

JC-Smith

There are already hundreds of VR games, though there aren't a ton of AAA quality ones just yet. Many of them are small indie projects which are similar to tech demos, but still enjoyable for their price. Yeah maybe you only get an hour of playing time but if you are paying a few bucks that's fine if it's an enjoyable experience.

There are some very good VR games though, which showcase what the platform can do. Some of my favorites:

Raw Data - Fun co-op shooting game which really shows off what roomscale can do. Don't know anyone who hasn't enjoyed this one, it's the best of the shooting gallery games.

Edge of Nowhere - Fantastic third person cross between something like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil.

Pinball FX VR - Lots of fun here for pinball fans. Takes a simple concept and showcases ways VR can improve it. 

Redout - A high quality VR wipeout clone.

Chair in a Room: Greenwater - Fun horror adventure which showcases the motion controller aspects of VR.

Chronos - A zelda-style RPG adventure that wouldn't seem like it would work well in VR but is still very enjoyable.

Elite Dangerous and Eve Valkyrie - VR adds a ton to these space sims.

There are some high quality games out there, just sprinkled in with a lot of indie games. 

The tech though is legit. VR adds a level of immersion you can't get otherwise. The price tag though is preventing it from becoming mainstream currently. 

Loke666

It is certainly true that the VR games right now are pretty limited, kinda like a console at the release. That is a price early adopters of any new technology will have to pay. Few games, high prices and some technical issues means that it isn't something for the mainstream gamers at the moment.

But more games are coming, prices will drop and the tech will become better. At what point you will get it (if at all) is up to you.

Personally do I think Ill wait until somewhere next year to get one, I need a few more good games to fork up the cash for a Vive but thats me.

craftseeker

Loke666 said:

It is certainly true that the VR games right now are pretty limited, kinda like a console at the release. That is a price early adopters of any new technology will have to pay. Few games, high prices and some technical issues means that it isn't something for the mainstream gamers at the moment.

But more games are coming, prices will drop and the tech will become better. At what point you will get it (if at all) is up to you.

Personally do I think Ill wait until somewhere next year to get one, I need a few more good games to fork up the cash for a Vive but thats me.

Personally I think you will be able to make this exact same comment in twelve months time and you probably will  

SEANMCAD

craftseeker said:

Loke666 said:

It is certainly true that the VR games right now are pretty limited, kinda like a console at the release. That is a price early adopters of any new technology will have to pay. Few games, high prices and some technical issues means that it isn't something for the mainstream gamers at the moment.

But more games are coming, prices will drop and the tech will become better. At what point you will get it (if at all) is up to you.

Personally do I think Ill wait until somewhere next year to get one, I need a few more good games to fork up the cash for a Vive but thats me.

Personally I think you will be able to make this exact same comment in twelve months time and you probably will  

I would like to place a bet with you sir

SEANMCAD

I would like to ask you all a question:

Do you think when the Playstation 1 came out there was more playable game hours aviable to it then there is for VR.

SEANMCAD

Phry said:

VR for the moment, remains a very niche product, its not mainstream, and its unlikely that developers are going to expend that much resources on VR specific software/games until there are enough units out there to make it profitable, and thats not yet, so its likely that most VR games/apps etc. will probably not progress much beyond the 'tech demo' stage, at least for a few years, it all depends on how sales of VR hardware goes, which currently its stalled almost completely, which is not a good sign, whether PS VR will change this, remains to be seen.
So VR is not the 'big' thing in 2016, and it probably won't be in 2017 either, but by 2020, it might be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNQvLrfYnv8
The Know, its also mostly opinion based too, but there are some interesting figures obtained from Steam etc.

lol..

it maybe Niche but developers ARE spending a great deal of resources at the moment. 
that might be a horrible decision on their part but they are doing it
Valve has 1/3 of its staff working on VR as just one example

cameltosis

SEANMCAD said:

I would like to ask you all a question:

Do you think when the Playstation 1 came out there was more playable game hours aviable to it then there is for VR.

Well, obviously not. On launch day, most consoles only have a handful of games available for them. Even the latest round of consoles (xbone / ps4) only had 15-20 games available on launch day. 


PC is a completely different ballpark, especially comparing it to consoles that launched before the internet took off. First, cost of distribution has dropped dramatically. Second, conversion of existing games into VR-compatible games is much easier than creating the game from scratch. Third, we're in the era of indie games, something that just didn't exist in the PS1 era (and is still extremely limited on any console). 

Finally, underlying technology - creating games for bespoke console hardware, especially in PS1 days, was far more difficult than creating a game for PC that uses VR headsets. 

SEANMCAD

cameltosis said:

SEANMCAD said:

I would like to ask you all a question:

Do you think when the Playstation 1 came out there was more playable game hours aviable to it then there is for VR.

Well, obviously not. On launch day, most consoles only have a handful of games available for them. Even the latest round of consoles (xbone / ps4) only had 15-20 games available on launch day. 


PC is a completely different ballpark, especially comparing it to consoles that launched before the internet took off. First, cost of distribution has dropped dramatically. Second, conversion of existing games into VR-compatible games is much easier than creating the game from scratch. Third, we're in the era of indie games, something that just didn't exist in the PS1 era (and is still extremely limited on any console). 

Finally, underlying technology - creating games for bespoke console hardware, especially in PS1 days, was far more difficult than creating a game for PC that uses VR headsets. 

so let me see if i get this logic right.

even though consoles are obviously extreemly successful and have been for years and they started with few games that same forumla can not work with PC peripheral simply because when the PC started it had a lot of games BUT VR needs to have AAA titles like consoles because that is clearly what made consoles successful.

Either we compare VR to the expectated forumla or consoles or we do not we cant keep flipping back and forth as we wish