I honestly think some of the posters were one person or a group of people who just trolled with strawmen. Seems odd most of them have been absent togehter for awhile.
The genre is diminished. I think it failed to please the orginal base and the new base can have better games without the time commitment. There is very little to talk about because there has been little new in a decade. Now there aren't even a bunch of new games nearing completion.
There is a lot of rejection of change or new ideas so not much to talk about.
When I was young-er .. I mean very young, before I understood the industry at all (I was 9-ish?), I once wrote a letter to Nintendo about their direction they were taking with "their" video games (I listed some from other publishers), and how I missed all the old games they used to have on Super Nintendo that Playstation was getting, and how their publication wasn't showing the games and information I wanted to know about, or wanted to see on their platform. (This was back in the day when Nintendo Power magazine was still a thing)
They didn't publish the letter obviously, and it was probably written fairly poorly, but I did receive a response to the tune of "We understand, we're sorry you feel that way, we have some great games coming up, these things take time."
In reality they were probably like.. "this stupid kid doesn't understand how publishers and development works, he doesn't realize the work that gets put into this magazine, send him a sticker and tell him to shut up."
I see so much of the same in this thread. "The direction is all wrong." "I don't like any of the games you cover" -- it is what it is kids. Have a sticker.
You've been proven wrong by the numbers, they kept the forum clean and numbers are down.
except "correlation does not imply causation".
Come on you know that. Is it because the forums are clean or because there aren't many to any games to talk about and we get the same discussions over and over again.
You are indirectly proving my point though. Of course you see the same discussions over and over, but that's also directly related to the Site strict forum policy. There are plenty of games to talk about, the problem is that you can only talk about them in a positive way.
The fact that certain subject or topics get censored or lumped on a single thread, devoid the Forum of interesting threads (not necessarily informative but never than less entertaining). People in this Forum learned how to avoid posting controversial threads, hence what is left is.....boredom.
I would say that there are posters who have no idea how to discuss controversial threads.
As was mentioned above, some people are incapable of making counter arguments without having them turn into personal attacks.
As far as controversial topics, other than anything overly sexual or racist or political you can pretty much discuss what you want.
But again, there are some who just can't keep it civil and turn any topic into bashing a group or individual.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Come on you know that. Is it because the forums are clean or because there aren't many to any games to talk about and we get the same discussions over and over again.
Well to test it, let's open a lightly moderated forum for one of the big games in addition to the existing one. Then watch and see what happens.
I suggest Star Citizen to start with, and we all know exactly which forum will win by a huge margin. But that's exactly the reason why they won't do it.
MMORPG.com don't want you to post "too negative" (definition which is wide open to all sorts of interpretation by the way) comments on games, it's their policy. They don't want you to over-criticize a game, that's it. I am sure they must have good reason for doing so, it is not up to me to judge, dealing with potential advertisers it's a difficult business, I appreciate that.
More members or more advertisers? Big dilemma. Sure losing some advertisers hurts, but without members there are no advertisers whatsoever, so for me would be a no brainer.
Is the issue that one can't discuss Star Citizen or is the issue that some people have no idea how to discuss Star Citizen without dragging the content down to abuse, attacks and incessant rants?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I've largely stopped visiting and posting here for two reasons:
1) Trolls unchecked - There are people who post complete garbage and generally incite flame wars, if you call them on it, they flag you and you get the ban, not them. Tired of that. I always try to contribute to discussions and provide substantive concerns or points, sometimes I'll throw in a fun quip or a thumbs-up type of post if I want to voice my recommendation for something. But the trolls always win on mmorpg, so there's little incentive to stick around.
2) Fanboys/Advertisers unchecked -[mod edit]. Fanboys in general cause a lot of problems and are quick to flag people because they don't like what they're hearing. Back when the CoE kickstarter first closed and they were banging on about how it'll be done in 1 year with $900k and that the devs had been working on it for 10 years. JFC, you point out how preposterous it all sounds and you get flagged a million times. Forget it, no point.
Come on you know that. Is it because the forums are clean or because there aren't many to any games to talk about and we get the same discussions over and over again.
Well to test it, let's open a lightly moderated forum for one of the big games in addition to the existing one. Then watch and see what happens.
I suggest Star Citizen to start with, and we all know exactly which forum will win by a huge margin. But that's exactly the reason why they won't do it.
MMORPG.com don't want you to post "too negative" (definition which is wide open to all sorts of interpretation by the way) comments on games, it's their policy. They don't want you to over-criticize a game, that's it. I am sure they must have good reason for doing so, it is not up to me to judge, dealing with potential advertisers it's a difficult business, I appreciate that.
More members or more advertisers? Big dilemma. Sure losing some advertisers hurts, but without members there are no advertisers whatsoever, so for me would be a no brainer.
Is the issue that one can't discuss Star Citizen or is the issue that some people have no idea how to discuss Star Citizen without dragging the content down to abuse, attacks and incessant rants?
You're absolutely right. Even in its mildest forms, there is never a SC thread here that does not have a huge helping of both sides making it personal... and then there's always the inevitable DS invocation.
I usually know before I even open the thread who is going to be saying what and who is going to be attacking whom.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I've largely stopped visiting and posting here for two reasons:
1) Trolls unchecked - There are people who post complete garbage and generally incite flame wars, if you call them on it, they flag you and you get the ban, not them. Tired of that. I always try to contribute to discussions and provide substantive concerns or points, sometimes I'll throw in a fun quip or a thumbs-up type of post if I want to voice my recommendation for something. But the trolls always win on mmorpg, so there's little incentive to stick around.
2) Fanboys/Advertisers unchecked - [mod edit]. Fanboys in general cause a lot of problems and are quick to flag people because they don't like what they're hearing. Back when the CoE kickstarter first closed and they were banging on about how it'll be done in 1 year with $900k and that the devs had been working on it for 10 years. JFC, you point out how preposterous it all sounds and you get flagged a million times. Forget it, no point.
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules. Your above post is a perfect example.
Post edited by MikeB on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I've found the moderation to be very fair. Anytime I've received a warning (there have been few) it has always been quite obvious as to the reason and I'm quick to apologize for my infractions.
I know where the line is, it's really not very hard to figure out.
I've never received any kind of moderation for expressing my views.
The last thing I call the moderators on this forum is Overzealous.
I've found the moderation to be very fair. Anytime I've received a warning (there have been few) it has always been quite obvious as to the reason and I'm quick to apologize for my infractions.
I know where the line is, it's really not very hard to figure out.
I've never received any kind of moderation for expressing my views.
The last thing I call the moderators on this forum is Overzealous.
The problem to me is that trolls no the line too. Some people are amazing at trolling enough to insult and incite without breaking rules.
I've found the moderation to be very fair. Anytime I've received a warning (there have been few) it has always been quite obvious as to the reason and I'm quick to apologize for my infractions.
I know where the line is, it's really not very hard to figure out.
I've never received any kind of moderation for expressing my views.
The last thing I call the moderators on this forum is Overzealous.
The problem to me is that trolls no the line too. Some people are amazing at trolling enough to insult and incite without breaking rules.
I personally try not to pay too much attention to those types. Some are just rude morons like that AMD fan/Nvidia -Intel hater/ guy. Hell the other week I had to keep what I wanted to say in check, lest I get myself moderated.
Oh Kopo. it took you like all of one whole post before you started praising Kopo with this alt. Must be hard for an egocentric to accept being disliked and considered a troll and banned even. What reddit kicked you out too is it? No hugs for you from here any way.
See, here is my issue.
Kopo and his/her/attackchopper ilk are entertaining, whether they mean to be or not. One of my personal favorite posters here is nuttier than a peanut farm but man can his posts be fun to read. "Outsider art" if you will. I enjoy the wingnuts. Who wants to immerse themselves in a circle-jerk echo chamber?
Hell I miss the bat guano covered troll that was Brenics. I wouldn't be surprised if @Erillion does too.
If they just stuck to posting nutty stuff for humor's sake that would be fine. I think most would join you in considering it entertaining. However, there are several that specifically try to disrupt conversation and provoke negative reactions. MMORPG.com has a long history of taking action against those who react to trolls rather than getting rid of the trolls. This drives some people away and creates a level of resentment in some that are impacted but stay. Both contribute to a less positive and more caustic posting environment.
Yep I have been warned in years past about calling out an obvious troll while the troll themselves was free to continue. That actually makes my and others argument doesn't it? This sites own actions shows it puts a value on trolling to some degree.
But they have put the hammer down on the outright vicious trolls like Brenics lately. Actually it seems they have been hitting the Star Citizen forums hard with the ban hammer more than most places here. Maybe it's confirmation bias on my part.
The nuances of Trolling are not my strong suit. I'm not emotionally invested in games like some here are so I don't get my Jimmies rustled and throw a hissy every time someones post an contrary position.
Trolling original definition - fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat.
Oh Kopo. it took you like all of one whole post before you started praising Kopo with this alt. Must be hard for an egocentric to accept being disliked and considered a troll and banned even. What reddit kicked you out too is it? No hugs for you from here any way.
See, here is my issue.
Kopo and his/her/attackchopper ilk are entertaining, whether they mean to be or not. One of my personal favorite posters here is nuttier than a peanut farm but man can his posts be fun to read. "Outsider art" if you will. I enjoy the wingnuts. Who wants to immerse themselves in a circle-jerk echo chamber?
Hell I miss the bat guano covered troll that was Brenics. I wouldn't be surprised if @Erillion does too.
If they just stuck to posting nutty stuff for humor's sake that would be fine. I think most would join you in considering it entertaining. However, there are several that specifically try to disrupt conversation and provoke negative reactions. MMORPG.com has a long history of taking action against those who react to trolls rather than getting rid of the trolls. This drives some people away and creates a level of resentment in some that are impacted but stay. Both contribute to a less positive and more caustic posting environment.
Yep I have been warned in years past about calling out an obvious troll while the troll themselves was free to continue. That actually makes my and others argument doesn't it? This sites own actions shows it puts a value on trolling to some degree.
But they have put the hammer down on the outright vicious trolls like Brenics lately. Actually it seems they have been hitting the Star Citizen forums hard with the ban hammer more than most places here. Maybe it's confirmation bias on my part.
The nuances of Trolling are not my strong suit. I'm not emotionally invested in games like some here are so I don't get my Jimmies rustled and throw a hissy every time someones post an contrary position.
Trolling original definition - fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat.
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules.
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
Is the issue that one can't discuss Star Citizen or is the issue that some people have no idea how to discuss Star Citizen without dragging the content down to abuse, attacks and incessant rants?
Probably a combination of trollish posters, reasonable posters that don't toe the clique line, or posters that the mods have personal issues with, tbh.
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules.
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
It's been many many YEARS since I've received a warning, much less a ban, and even back 5 or 6 years ago after I had been here a while and I was posting a LOT I only ever received 2 temp bans and only 1 was for .. I guess it could be called.. "behavior"
More recently it's rare to see or hear about people being banned. A few years back, people would cry about it all the time.
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules.
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
For the most part it is that simple. I've only ever had a warning and that only one. I dont know any of the mods . It isn't difficult to disagree without breaking the rules.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I was on vacation in August they did a poll for what now? I would pay to get rid of adds if it was reasonable. I come to this site probably 35 times a day lol.
I was on vacation in August they did a poll for what now? I would pay to get rid of adds if it was reasonable. I come to this site probably 35 times a day lol.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules.
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
It's been many many YEARS since I've received a warning, much less a ban, and even back 5 or 6 years ago after I had been here a while and I was posting a LOT I only ever received 2 temp bans and only 1 was for .. I guess it could be called.. "behavior"
More recently it's rare to see or hear about people being banned. A few years back, people would cry about it all the time.
This is why folks use the term 'uneven'. Good for you though.
I don't think I've ever received even a warning from Bill and the gang... And now, I feel left out.
I've been in some pretty heated discussions, too, though I do attempt my best to steer clear of building an argument that hinges on my opponent's personality traits rather than the argument they present. /shrug
@BillMurphy, can I haz my rite of passage warning now?
Rarely seen this. They can report all they want. If your getting banned or warned it's likely cause you did something against the rules.
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
It's been many many YEARS since I've received a warning, much less a ban, and even back 5 or 6 years ago after I had been here a while and I was posting a LOT I only ever received 2 temp bans and only 1 was for .. I guess it could be called.. "behavior"
More recently it's rare to see or hear about people being banned. A few years back, people would cry about it all the time.
This is why folks use the term 'uneven'. Good for you though.
As long as "uneven" means "mostly in their heads" I'll agree with you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the click of who? .....i know the answer , and no we dont need those ppl here...because as soon as they arrive they other side will leave , u are just exchanging the worse ppl with the ppl u have already have....is like changing a good appel for a rotten one just for no reason at all...
Just to point out the obvious, the "good" people still here are not that many, as opposed to when moderation rules were more relaxed and the site was thriving, the "good" people like to argue with the "bad" people (I over-simplified, there is not such thing as bad or good people, we are just different)
I want to point out another obvious thing, controversial threads like this one are really popular.....check the number of views compared to other threads in The Pub Section 3.3K views in just 3 days, it dwarfs any other "Micky Mouse" thread on the list. People click this thread because they expect to find some "PvP" like it or not, and though very few participate by posting their opinion, a large number like reading this type of threads.
Numbers speaks volumes, everything else is just hot hair. People like controversy, debates with polarizing opinions are interesting, whilst boring monologues everybody agrees with are not.
And, for the most part, there haven't been many personal attacks, bits of name calling, belittling, sexist remarks, racist remarks, strings of obscenities, etc.
And that's because there can be sensitive topics and topics with different opinions without the discourse dropping to sewer levels.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And, for the most part, there haven't been many personal attacks, bits of name calling, belittling, sexist remarks, racist remarks, strings of obscenities, etc.
And that's because there can be sensitive topics and topics with different opinions without the discourse dropping to sewer levels.
No, it's only because this thread isn't about a game, it would be too obvious if someone would get a warning for being too negative on this thread, it would undoubtedly prove my point.
If I had posted so much negative comments about a popular game as I did in this thread I would have received a Warning, like I did in the past, that's the main reason why I don't post so much anymore, and if you read all my posts even though I am fairly negative and blunt, I put lots of effort in all my posts. So if I can get Warnings for excess negativity I can only imagine what happens for less experienced posters.
Anyway it is what it is. I believe I made my point clear enough, there is nothing else I can add to this discussion, and I stand by my opinion that this Forum need some spice. I think I made valid points and gave food for thoughts to MMORPG.com Management, it's up to them to take notice or ignore it, it's their business, it's their money and they are entitled to do what they think is best for this Site.
Comments
The genre is diminished. I think it failed to please the orginal base and the new base can have better games without the time commitment. There is very little to talk about because there has been little new in a decade. Now there aren't even a bunch of new games nearing completion.
There is a lot of rejection of change or new ideas so not much to talk about.
They didn't publish the letter obviously, and it was probably written fairly poorly, but I did receive a response to the tune of "We understand, we're sorry you feel that way, we have some great games coming up, these things take time."
In reality they were probably like.. "this stupid kid doesn't understand how publishers and development works, he doesn't realize the work that gets put into this magazine, send him a sticker and tell him to shut up."
I see so much of the same in this thread. "The direction is all wrong." "I don't like any of the games you cover" -- it is what it is kids. Have a sticker.
As was mentioned above, some people are incapable of making counter arguments without having them turn into personal attacks.
As far as controversial topics, other than anything overly sexual or racist or political you can pretty much discuss what you want.
But again, there are some who just can't keep it civil and turn any topic into bashing a group or individual.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
1) Trolls unchecked - There are people who post complete garbage and generally incite flame wars, if you call them on it, they flag you and you get the ban, not them. Tired of that. I always try to contribute to discussions and provide substantive concerns or points, sometimes I'll throw in a fun quip or a thumbs-up type of post if I want to voice my recommendation for something. But the trolls always win on mmorpg, so there's little incentive to stick around.
2) Fanboys/Advertisers unchecked -[mod edit]. Fanboys in general cause a lot of problems and are quick to flag people because they don't like what they're hearing. Back when the CoE kickstarter first closed and they were banging on about how it'll be done in 1 year with $900k and that the devs had been working on it for 10 years. JFC, you point out how preposterous it all sounds and you get flagged a million times. Forget it, no point.
I usually know before I even open the thread who is going to be saying what and who is going to be attacking whom.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've found the moderation to be very fair. Anytime I've received a warning (there have been few) it has always been quite obvious as to the reason and I'm quick to apologize for my infractions.
I know where the line is, it's really not very hard to figure out.
I've never received any kind of moderation for expressing my views.
The last thing I call the moderators on this forum is Overzealous.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
One's with a hook the other with a net
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
No, it is not that simplistic. The moderation here isn't that honest. Being part of the clique, as in being a mod on a posting account, or a friend of a mod, or just sharing a mod's view, will see you protected. Saying the lightest thing outside of that will get you a warning or a ban. Mods are human, they have their own agendas and axes to grind. I have known a couple in game personally.
Probably a combination of trollish posters, reasonable posters that don't toe the clique line, or posters that the mods have personal issues with, tbh.
I am sure all get warnings and bans.
More recently it's rare to see or hear about people being banned. A few years back, people would cry about it all the time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is why folks use the term 'uneven'. Good for you though.
I've been in some pretty heated discussions, too, though I do attempt my best to steer clear of building an argument that hinges on my opponent's personality traits rather than the argument they present. /shrug
@BillMurphy, can I haz my rite of passage warning now?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And that's because there can be sensitive topics and topics with different opinions without the discourse dropping to sewer levels.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If I had posted so much negative comments about a popular game as I did in this thread I would have received a Warning, like I did in the past, that's the main reason why I don't post so much anymore, and if you read all my posts even though I am fairly negative and blunt, I put lots of effort in all my posts.
So if I can get Warnings for excess negativity I can only imagine what happens for less experienced posters.
Anyway it is what it is.
I believe I made my point clear enough, there is nothing else I can add to this discussion, and I stand by my opinion that this Forum need some spice.
I think I made valid points and gave food for thoughts to MMORPG.com Management, it's up to them to take notice or ignore it, it's their business, it's their money and they are entitled to do what they think is best for this Site.