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Elder Scrolls Online Articles - MMORPG.com

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:

    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo

    I think if they would have included "Chapters" in a subscription, exactly like they have with the DLC. They could have increased their subscriber base substantially. It takes less than 3 months of sub for Zenimax to offset the $40.00

    They could have made a sub more appealing instead of less.

    To think that before the RNG box bullshit  I was praising them for having the best consumer freindly business model in the Industry.

    A little success sure changes things.
    I think the real problem from their perspective is doing it as they have been, the sub option makes it a bit too easy to skirt the cost of story based DLC. I think that's where this change is coming from. They want everyone to pay that 40$ price tag. 30 hours of story content is nothing in a months time after all. If people could just sub, they'd pay the 15 bucks, play through the story and drop the sub. <snip>
    Agree - as I have said previously. A sub model allows for "subscription freeloaders" - not everyone of course and companies want folks who simply sub and stay subbed. People who sub "now and again" though, doing "all the content released since they last subbed" is a risk they take. Such people probably go through more than one expansion in the 30 days as well. So less than $15 per DLC.

    "No money, no content - so people pay; no content, no money - but companies have to deliver".

    And as Iselin says if they are indeed "struggling" to maintain 4 DLCs a year then 3DLCs + a big expansion will be harder ... unless the DLCs get smaller. Reducing the value of the sub further.
  • 1luckyblonde1luckyblonde Member CommonPosts: 1
    I have subbed since the very beginning and I purchase all the DLC. My reason is because I want to support this game, I enjoy playing it and I will always want more content in the future. That cannot happen if they do not at the very least break even but I hope they are making money. I have a daughter in the gaming industry as a software engineer and I know how much work it takes to make these games attractive and keep attracting new players. I only sub to one game at a time but have always subbed what ever game I am loving whether a free to play version is available or not. Been playing since Legends of Kesmai, through EQ I and II, of course WOW for many years and then on to GW2 and now ESO.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577

    Leiloni said:

    I'm just disappointed that they keep pushing the sub. They failed as a P2P game for a reason. The way they keep pushing the sub it's like they're barely a B2P game.



    I don't want to ever pay a sub for any game. I find far more value in spending that money on a costume, or DLC, or piece of content I'll have forever on all of my characters - not fleeting benefits that I may not even make full use of that month. I want to pick and choose when I support them and have the freedom of coming and going from a game as my playtime allows without losing on potential benefits and features because I haven't subbed.



    One of ESO's initial attractions was it's B2P nature but for the past year they've been pushing the subscription more and more. All they're doing is pushing me further and further away. It's very disappointing. ZOS needs to stop being so money hungry and be more customer friendly. We're willing to stick around and we're willing to give you money, but let it be on OUR terms. We're tired of P2P games and we told all of you game devs that years ago. WAKE UP and listen for once.



    ESO never failed as a P2P MMO. It would have been still among the most popular MMOs today if it remained that way. Not as popular as it is now, but still popular (it's easily the 2nd most popular MMO of all time already).

    However apparently ZOS has some really smart minds behind the scene and realized that to pull the ES masses into the game, they'd need to change the model to B2P with DLCs - just as ES fans are used to. It's another great proof how they listen to their fans.

    Besides this game is way more expensive now than it was back then with a Sub. You still have an optional sub (which is apparently insanely popular if PS4 top-seller articles are any indication), and to me it's pretty much mandatory due to the crafting bag, I can also imagine they'll lock more things behind that as the game continues growing.

    DLCs and expansions are not free either. I mean I'm not complaining as long as they continue producing these very high quality updates (compared to their competition), however I can understand players that are intimidated by the prices.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I think it's funny how the cash shop icon glimmers and they have a separate icon just for buying crates.  Popup windows are probably next.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I know I wasn't interested in all the DLC so I just got the two I liked.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited February 2017

    Hariken said:





    Hariken said:








    Nice piece Rob. I don't really find the value in subbing based on how casual I play. Though subbing for a couple of months to collect crowns and experience some DLC is nice.









    I would never sub.to ESO again. Logging in to the game is like RNG. Maybe you get in maybe not. And it get worse with every update.






    Me nor any of my guildmates (Very spread out, one being in Germany, One in the airforce in Korea, another in Finland and myself and a buddy in the states) have no issues whatsoever getting into the game.



    I'm thinking it's issues on your side. Old router?





    No its not on my end. Not when hundreds of other players have the same issue of long loading screen loops or getting kicked back to login once you get in. People have been dealing with this same crap since launch.



    Then it must be an issue with a hardware or software conflict or issues with your ISP on yours and their end, because thousands more people do not have that issue. In fact I can play this game just fine on my 7 year old laptop. No issues logging in, staying logged in; even on my home wi-fi. It has to be on your end.

    People can complain all they want, but until people actually start submitting crash logs and tickets the problem will remain for them.
    Post edited by Tiller on
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BorlucBorluc Member UncommonPosts: 262
    I think you're overthinking it WAAAAY too much. How about dropping a small amount of money to support a game you enjoy? The perks are there for incentive. If you aren't willing to spend that much a month, how much could you really be enjoying it?

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited February 2017
    Borluc said:
    I think you're overthinking it WAAAAY too much. How about dropping a small amount of money to support a game you enjoy? The perks are there for incentive. If you aren't willing to spend that much a month, how much could you really be enjoying it?

    You're preaching to the converted. Most of us have in fact been supporting this game with our cash for a good long while. Some of us for 3 years. There wasn't much need really to think about it when the sub was an unquestionable good deal.

    But when they change the deal there isn't a thing wrong with stopping to have a look at the new deal to see if it's as good as it was. Rob just did it with a calculator in hand. Not overthinking it at all.

    In this case the strong likelihood that all the best things that previously were part of the quarterly DLC included with the sub, will now be concentrated in the one yearly DLC called a chapter, and the other 3 yearly DLC that are still included, if in fact they do stick to that 3 per year new schedule, will provide less than what the DLCs under the previous scheme provided.

    I have consistently been very complimentary of the ESO+ model since it was introduced precisely for the full access to all DLC part of it. No matter how much the ZOS spin doctors want to downplay the impact of this new scheme, it's a big change.

    This can of course, only be speculation until we actually see what those 3 DLC per year look like in light of the concentration of features in the yearly chapters -  how thin or thick they are. Time will tell but I haven't seen any signs that they are increasing their development staff to account for producing 3 DLC per year of a quality similar to those that came before plus one chapter that will be larger and better than what they previously called DLC. Surely that means extra development work if all they're doing is making one of the 4 much better and larger.

    I could be wrong and if I am, I will then have another think about the worth of ESO+. Until then I'll freeload with the majority.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689

    laserit said:


    gipfeli said:


    laserit said:

    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub


    have you never bought an addon for an mmo you paid sub before?

    wow? daoc? eq... swg... ?

    i would agree if the "morrowind" zone would be the same as the existing zones. but i've read (can anyone confirm that??) that the morrowind zone is the actual size (1:1) of the morrowind standalone game? i mean.. that's massive!

    and also that you will still receive dlc's with your subscription after the morrowind chapter (3 dlc's a year?)

    i do understand the cash shop hate though.. i really really dislike it too. it's an ever increasing thing in mmo's though :(. i blame mobile gaming for this. burn candy crush, BURN!!


    I like to be immersed in a game. Buying outfits, pets, potions, furniture, ect. ect. totally kills immersion. I can live with it but I'm not interested in buying the stuff. I just want to play and I don't have a problem paying for that honor.

    As far as the Sub, Crown, DLC, Chapter, Money thing goes:

    You buy Crowns with Money

    You buy Morrowind expansion with Money

    Crowns are sold by Zenimax

    Morrowind expansion is sold by Zenimax

    The bottom line is:

    Zenimax is not happy with my spending of $15 per month. They want more.








    What you need to consider is this, you pay 15 a month you GET 15 worth in crowns. you also get a crafting bag and the DLC's as well as gold/xp boost. morrowind is AN EXPANSION not a simple DLC. i am honestly tired of overly entitled people constantly moaning about how they pay 15 a month. guess what so have i SINCE LAUNCH in 2014. i am WILLING to pay for an expansion just like everyone who plays WoW soaks up the next expansion from them.

    free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!

    Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!

  • ViterzgirViterzgir Member UncommonPosts: 19
    edited February 2017
    Play GW2 and feel the real PAIN of playing with your inventories. TESO at least allows you to buy Bank space and inventory space for gold, but in GW2 you should buy all that for Real Money (yeah, I know that there're like 4 free spots for bags). And it gives you like 10 (TEN!!!!) slots. I don't really mind paying for sub. I have all the perks, I have access to all DLCs and 1500 crowns to spare each months. Seems normal to me.

    I think the problem is in nowadays players who wants EVERYTHING for $1. Today players don't want to pay. Because they don't realize that Devs wants to get money. They want to get salary. They want eat. They want to pay for servers. They want to pay for a lot of things. But no.

    Let's create more whining about how much money do we spend on games.

    Did you play WoW? Where You buy a game, have to pay for sub, have to buy all Expansions, AND there's an ingame store. <<<- that's bad, I agree. <br />
    But TESO is currently one of the BEST balanced game of what you get for what you pay.
  • ViterzgirViterzgir Member UncommonPosts: 19
    BTW Zenimax asked players not long ago what do they want to change in sub perks. You can find posts in subreddit and on official forum.

    So yeah, they DO care about us.
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894

    Drisdane said:


    After having said all of this, I tend to always revert to the same metric... A 3 hour trip to the bar on a Saturday night will usually cost me $100-$150. I will be giving and use $100. Essentially, that is $15 every 27 minutes at that bar. So my thought on it is this: If I spend more than 27 minutes in-game per month, then I have officially gotten my money's worth. If we are looking at it from the perspective of the remaining $3 (The value after subtracting the crowns cost), then I only need to spend 5.4 minutes in-game to get my value out of it each month. Realistically, I spend 20-60 hours a month in-game, so I am definitely getting my value.




    I used to always compare it to the movies. I can go to the movies and spend $15 on a ticket for two hours or spend $15 on a game for potentially 50 to 60 hours.

  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894


    I think it's funny how the cash shop icon glimmers and they have a separate icon just for buying crates.  Popup windows are probably next.



    Those are there at log in for the cat in the store.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    jircris said:

    laserit said:


    gipfeli said:


    laserit said:

    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub


    have you never bought an addon for an mmo you paid sub before?

    wow? daoc? eq... swg... ?

    i would agree if the "morrowind" zone would be the same as the existing zones. but i've read (can anyone confirm that??) that the morrowind zone is the actual size (1:1) of the morrowind standalone game? i mean.. that's massive!

    and also that you will still receive dlc's with your subscription after the morrowind chapter (3 dlc's a year?)

    i do understand the cash shop hate though.. i really really dislike it too. it's an ever increasing thing in mmo's though :(. i blame mobile gaming for this. burn candy crush, BURN!!


    I like to be immersed in a game. Buying outfits, pets, potions, furniture, ect. ect. totally kills immersion. I can live with it but I'm not interested in buying the stuff. I just want to play and I don't have a problem paying for that honor.

    As far as the Sub, Crown, DLC, Chapter, Money thing goes:

    You buy Crowns with Money

    You buy Morrowind expansion with Money

    Crowns are sold by Zenimax

    Morrowind expansion is sold by Zenimax

    The bottom line is:

    Zenimax is not happy with my spending of $15 per month. They want more.








    What you need to consider is this, you pay 15 a month you GET 15 worth in crowns. you also get a crafting bag and the DLC's as well as gold/xp boost. morrowind is AN EXPANSION not a simple DLC. i am honestly tired of overly entitled people constantly moaning about how they pay 15 a month. guess what so have i SINCE LAUNCH in 2014. i am WILLING to pay for an expansion just like everyone who plays WoW soaks up the next expansion from them.
    Overly entitled lol

    I'm a 52 year old man who's been around the block a few times.

    I'll buy the $40 expansion if I so choose and spend the $15 per month on pistachios.

    I personally will get a lot more enjoyment from the pistachios then I will the Crown Store.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    edited February 2017
    Risultati immagini per pistacchio

    Agreed Pistachios rock
    Garrus Signature
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    cheyane said:
    Risultati immagini per pistacchio

    Agreed Pistachios rock
    Ooh the nice natural color ones... my faves! :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    edited February 2017
    Why what colour do you get them in here in Italy I get only those green ones. My husband makes a mean pasta with them. He uses this over pinoli cos they costs too much.
    Garrus Signature
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    gervaise1 said:
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:

    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo

    I think if they would have included "Chapters" in a subscription, exactly like they have with the DLC. They could have increased their subscriber base substantially. It takes less than 3 months of sub for Zenimax to offset the $40.00

    They could have made a sub more appealing instead of less.

    To think that before the RNG box bullshit  I was praising them for having the best consumer freindly business model in the Industry.

    A little success sure changes things.
    I think the real problem from their perspective is doing it as they have been, the sub option makes it a bit too easy to skirt the cost of story based DLC. I think that's where this change is coming from. They want everyone to pay that 40$ price tag. 30 hours of story content is nothing in a months time after all. If people could just sub, they'd pay the 15 bucks, play through the story and drop the sub. <snip>
    Agree - as I have said previously. A sub model allows for "subscription freeloaders" - not everyone of course and companies want folks who simply sub and stay subbed. People who sub "now and again" though, doing "all the content released since they last subbed" is a risk they take. Such people probably go through more than one expansion in the 30 days as well. So less than $15 per DLC.

    "No money, no content - so people pay; no content, no money - but companies have to deliver".

    And as Iselin says if they are indeed "struggling" to maintain 4 DLCs a year then 3DLCs + a big expansion will be harder ... unless the DLCs get smaller. Reducing the value of the sub further.
    Agreed. Although for that last part I'd say that's easily remedied by doing as I said before, focusing the other three DLCs on QOL, as well as expanded mechanics or ongoing content (theives guild IC, etc). Adding these things can have a huge effect on the sub option. As many sub now just for the crafting bag. Expanding with simple things like that can offset the loss at least somewhat possibly even push gains.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    cheyane said:
    Why what colour do you get them in here in Italy I get only those green ones. My husband makes a mean pasta with them. He uses this over pinoli cos they costs too much.
    In our supermarkets they used to almost always look like this:



    Although these days it's about half and half.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    Wow! That is very red looking. Are those coloured ?
    Garrus Signature
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    cheyane said:
    Wow! That is very red looking. Are those coloured ?
    Yes

    They color many foods here in North America.

    They say it makes them look more appealing. I say yuck ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,266
    edited February 2017
    Viterzgir said:
    Play GW2 and feel the real PAIN of playing with your inventories. TESO at least allows you to buy Bank space and inventory space for gold, but in GW2 you should buy all that for Real Money (yeah, I know that there're like 4 free spots for bags). And it gives you like 10 (TEN!!!!) slots. I don't really mind paying for sub. I have all the perks, I have access to all DLCs and 1500 crowns to spare each months. Seems normal to me.

    I think the problem is in nowadays players who wants EVERYTHING for $1. Today players don't want to pay. Because they don't realize that Devs wants to get money. They want to get salary. They want eat. They want to pay for servers. They want to pay for a lot of things. But no.

    Let's create more whining about how much money do we spend on games.

    Did you play WoW? Where You buy a game, have to pay for sub, have to buy all Expansions, AND there's an ingame store. <<<- that's bad, I agree.

    But TESO is currently one of the BEST balanced game of what you get for what you pay.

    I actually really like GW2's inventory system because there's so much stuff that you don't have to keep in your bank or bags. The collections keep all of your crafting mats and other junk, saving you a crap ton of space. So for me I think I probably bought one or two extra bank tabs (so 2 or 3 total) and my bags aren't even maxed out and my third bank tab isn't even half full. Also just a correction for you - a bank tab in GW2 is 30 slots, so if you buy a tab you get that. In ESO you'll pay like 50k gold for 10 slots. It's a shitty deal.

    In GW2 I've crafted some bags for myself but if I needed more space I could easily craft more, or bigger bags. ESO however you need to spend a ton of in game money to increase space, which gets more and more expensive, and if you want help at all you need to pay for the subscription. Literally days after losing your sub your bank is full again with crafting mats. Trust me I've tried.

    That's what gets me the most, is that something so necessary is part of the sub. Honestly the crafting bag should be free in game as a regular game feature looking at how other games handle inventory and bank management, so the fact that it's not is pretty bad. But at the very least they should make it a separate cash shop purchase. We could also say the same thing about costume dyeing. These are the types of decisions that are really shitty, money-grubbing ideas that show ZOS doesn't care at all for it's customers, only for the cash. The recent changes to the DLC's per year for subs is another example. I and many more players are willing to regularly support them. We just want to do so in ways that are more worth our money and show some respect for us the players.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,266
    Grakulen said:

    Drisdane said:


    After having said all of this, I tend to always revert to the same metric... A 3 hour trip to the bar on a Saturday night will usually cost me $100-$150. I will be giving and use $100. Essentially, that is $15 every 27 minutes at that bar. So my thought on it is this: If I spend more than 27 minutes in-game per month, then I have officially gotten my money's worth. If we are looking at it from the perspective of the remaining $3 (The value after subtracting the crowns cost), then I only need to spend 5.4 minutes in-game to get my value out of it each month. Realistically, I spend 20-60 hours a month in-game, so I am definitely getting my value.




    I used to always compare it to the movies. I can go to the movies and spend $15 on a ticket for two hours or spend $15 on a game for potentially 50 to 60 hours.

    That's not how I see it. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a movie in a theater. I watch movies at home, either via Xfinity On Demand, Amazon, or Netflix. So we're looking at far cheaper prices. You pay $8-$15/month for Amazon and Netflix for an unlimited amount of movies, and Xfinity I get obviously all my tv channels along with an amazing amount of tv shows and movies on Demand. So those are all a great deal. Plus, Amazon also offers free delivery and other things which make it a great deal.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,266
    laserit said:
    cheyane said:
    Wow! That is very red looking. Are those coloured ?
    Yes

    They color many foods here in North America.

    They say it makes them look more appealing. I say yuck ;)
    I live in the US and they don't color pistachios where I live lol. That's just the strangest thing I have ever seen. They don't color really any foods that I can think of. Ew.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Leiloni said:
    Viterzgir said:
    Play GW2 and feel the real PAIN of playing with your inventories. TESO at least allows you to buy Bank space and inventory space for gold, but in GW2 you should buy all that for Real Money (yeah, I know that there're like 4 free spots for bags). And it gives you like 10 (TEN!!!!) slots. I don't really mind paying for sub. I have all the perks, I have access to all DLCs and 1500 crowns to spare each months. Seems normal to me.

    I think the problem is in nowadays players who wants EVERYTHING for $1. Today players don't want to pay. Because they don't realize that Devs wants to get money. They want to get salary. They want eat. They want to pay for servers. They want to pay for a lot of things. But no.

    Let's create more whining about how much money do we spend on games.

    Did you play WoW? Where You buy a game, have to pay for sub, have to buy all Expansions, AND there's an ingame store. <<<- that's bad, I agree.

    But TESO is currently one of the BEST balanced game of what you get for what you pay.

    I actually really like GW2's inventory system because there's so much stuff that you don't have to keep in your bank or bags. The collections keep all of your crafting mats and other junk, saving you a crap ton of space. So for me I think I probably bought one or two extra bank tabs (so 2 or 3 total) and my bags aren't even maxed out. I've crafted some bags for myself but if I needed more space I could easily craft more, or bigger bags. ESO however you need to spend a ton of in game money to increase space, which gets more and more expensive, and if you want help at all you need to pay for the subscription. Literally days after losing your sub your bank is full again with crafting mats. Trust me I've tried.

    That's what gets me the most, is that something so necessary is part of the sub. Honestly the crafting bag should be free in game as a regular game feature looking at how other games handle inventory and bank management, so the fact that it's not is pretty bad. But at the very least they should make it a separate cash shop purchase. We could also say the same thing about costume dyeing. These are the types of decisions that are really shitty, money-grubbing ideas that show ZOS doesn't care at all for it's customers, only for the cash. The recent changes to the DLC's per year for subs is another example. I and many more players are willing to regularly support them. Just in ways that are more worth our money and show some respect for us the players.
    Matter of fact the ESO crafting bag bears a very strong resemblance to the GW2 collections that has always been an included part of the game. Before ESO ever had the crafting bag the requests in the official forums to have one usually referred to the GW2 one as an example of what we wanted.

    But when your business plan relies on keeping inconvenience in the game or even adding to it as they did with furniture crafting mats, we don't get it as base game upgrades. This is one of the big differences between developing for a P2P game vs. a cash shop one. When annoying inconveniences are addressed in P2P games they are done as base game patches. In F2P games, including their B2P cousins, they monetize inconvenience relief. 
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

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