Because even if it is cool and different it is still going to be a bad gameplay experience if youre getting griefed and attacked all the time. Unless you like that sort of thing, but as evidenced buy the LONG list of games with this same set up there arent many that do.
Unlike many, LiF is not one of those where many go solo and stay that way, the game clearly motivates people to ally and play together, everyone with their own role on a settlement.
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
You don't need scripted gameplay mechanics to get the gameplay you want, you can't just scream "change the game!" because you start and end up raided and attacked without a chance to fight back, that's just part of it; the unforgiveness of it is what drives people to play together, making the process of the creation of a guild/settlement hard.
Because even if it is cool and different it is still going to be a bad gameplay experience if youre getting griefed and attacked all the time. Unless you like that sort of thing, but as evidenced buy the LONG list of games with this same set up there arent many that do.
Unlike many, LiF is not one of those where many go solo and stay that way, the game clearly motivates people to ally and play together, everyone with their own role on a settlement.
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
It just needs to work for LiF, on many servers the setup is just that to make them work on the reality of PvP. And it works, once kingdoms are settled new players do are always wanted for several different reasons, hence it is of their interest to have settlements within their lands and offer protection. It's mutual benefit and that works for the servers with a playerbase having such setup.
It just needs to work for LiF, on many servers the setup is just that to make them work on the reality of PvP. And it works, once kingdoms are settled new players do are always wanted for several different reasons, hence it is of their interest to have settlements within their lands and offer protection. It's mutual benefit and that works for the servers with a playerbase having such setup.
There were guilds/clans set up for the same exact purpose in DF. Maybe the terraforming will keep a playerbase if it turns out to be a gank/steal your stuff fest.
Because even if it is cool and different it is still going to be a bad gameplay experience if youre getting griefed and attacked all the time. Unless you like that sort of thing, but as evidenced buy the LONG list of games with this same set up there arent many that do.
Unlike many, LiF is not one of those where many go solo and stay that way, the game clearly motivates people to ally and play together, everyone with their own role on a settlement.
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
And how did that work out for Darkfall?
Well, in fairness, is it the system that Darkfall had or that the game had issues?
I'm pretty sure that the people who followed Darkfall for its long development knew what they were getting into.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There were guilds/clans set up for the same exact purpose in DF. Maybe the terraforming will keep a playerbase if it turns out to be a gank/steal your stuff fest.
There are points where balance is necessary, however, much proposals to "fix" problems are about making the game easier and reduce its consequences. How easily you can get raided and destroyed by those who are simply stronger than you is something that is purely part of it, either you are just starting the game or playing for a month.
Obviously, the weaker you are the bigger the target you are, especially if you decide your path is to build a little house with no defense in the middle of the woods and expect "the game" will protect you from other players.
Because even if it is cool and different it is still going to be a bad gameplay experience if youre getting griefed and attacked all the time. Unless you like that sort of thing, but as evidenced buy the LONG list of games with this same set up there arent many that do.
Unlike many, LiF is not one of those where many go solo and stay that way, the game clearly motivates people to ally and play together, everyone with their own role on a settlement.
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
And how did that work out for Darkfall?
Well, in fairness, is it the system that Darkfall had or that the game had issues?
I'm pretty sure that the people who followed Darkfall for its long development knew what they were getting into.
but the most important part of that story you missed.
The game is closed, done, all intents and purposes a failed project.
so what does that stand for this one?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
^That's pretty much me...
I have to say, it looks prettier than I thought it would though.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
^That's pretty much me...
I have to say, it looks prettier than I thought it would though.
I am confused what do you mean 'all'.
I mean with all due respect if what you are looking for in a game is some mob farming, quest chaining, and raids why the fuck would even bother playing anything other than what your playing now? that is a serious question. I dont understand why
Post edited by SEANMCAD on
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
^That's pretty much me...
I have to say, it looks prettier than I thought it would though.
I am confused what do you mean 'all'.
I mean with all due respect if what you are looking for in a game is some mob farming, quest chaining, and raids why the fuck would even bother playing anything other than what your playing now? that is a serious question. I dont understand why
semi strawman.
But in essence for the guys that are going to ultimately ruin this game it is similar to that except its make a toon rank up killing skills go kill anyone and everyone you see. Once you get to a kill on sight status delete and start over again.
Vast majority of people will be leveling up PvE skills and what few PvP skill people who are in groups will be bored because the griefers wont bother with them (for awhile).
You can NEVER underestimate the will of a griefer or a person looking to destroy someone elses fun.
Because what will eventually happen is these so called 'diverse' groups will eventually have the 'soldiers' get bored (or turn to mercenaries themselves) and stop playing or leave the group theyre 'protecting' or turn the group into a supported mercenary/griefer entity.
This idea that players will 'police' themselves has always been a pipe dream, wee have seen it fail in every single game that has attempted it.
In the very least, PERSONAL claims should be 100% safe zones (barring aggressive behavior by the owner). Again we have made dozens of suggestions none of which have been heeded. So it will go the way of every other game with great potential. I hope I am wrong but I know I am not. I will, like I said, play it when it comes out and will play the beta version I am eligible for. That will give me a much better handle on what has changed, but I dont think much has.
Game has some pretty innovative things, terraforming best of any game, weather system was better but its still good. Unless they got rid of the system that makes the weather predictable, then it is back to being good again. Buildings could be a little more free form and not just all the same look but that is a so so compromise.
In the end 3 or 4 organized grifers with minimalist aggressive skills will be able to wipe out a settlement 4 or 5 times their number of people who dont put any points into war skills, which most wont early on. So you can have 3 or 4 guys riding around with war skills that take them maybe an hour or two to level up who have the potential to wipe out a group of 10-20 people fairly easily. If the griefers want to spend another 30-45 minutes and level up and make some armor then that guesstimate might actually be low.
That was one of the first things we 'tested' when the game first came out, the 'ease' griefers had in the game.
Obviously you need some forms of PvP. If you didnt then the game wouldnt be all that fun. But you dont need open world always 'on' PvP.
Nothing wrong with having 'safe' cities or zones (based on claim borders) and then having bandits and outlaws out and about. We did that on several servers. We made roads and connected settlements which obviously aided the bandits in knowing the better routes but the traders and travelers knew the risks and the people they had to watch for. THAT is a 'natural' progression' of a sandbox type game. Organized chaos more or less. Total free for all nonsense cannot work and it never will no matter what safeguards people think have been put in place to stop it.
But in essence for the guys that are going to ultimately ruin this game it is similar to that except its make a toon rank up killing skills go kill anyone and everyone you see. Once you get to a kill on sight status delete and start over again.
Vast majority of people will be leveling up PvE skills and what few PvP skill people who are in groups will be bored because the griefers wont bother with them (for awhile).
You can NEVER underestimate the will of a griefer or a person looking to destroy someone elses fun.
Because what will eventually happen is these so called 'diverse' groups will eventually have the 'soldiers' get bored (or turn to mercenaries themselves) and stop playing or leave the group theyre 'protecting' or turn the group into a supported mercenary/griefer entity.
This idea that players will 'police' themselves has always been a pipe dream, wee have seen it fail in every single game that has attempted it.
In the very least, PERSONAL claims should be 100% safe zones (barring aggressive behavior by the owner). Again we have made dozens of suggestions none of which have been heeded. So it will go the way of every other game with great potential. I hope I am wrong but I know I am not. I will, like I said, play it when it comes out and will play the beta version I am eligible for. That will give me a much better handle on what has changed, but I dont think much has.
Game has some pretty innovative things, terraforming best of any game, weather system was better but its still good. Unless they got rid of the system that makes the weather predictable, then it is back to being good again. Buildings could be a little more free form and not just all the same look but that is a so so compromise.
In the end 3 or 4 organized grifers with minimalist aggressive skills will be able to wipe out a settlement 4 or 5 times their number of people who dont put any points into war skills, which most wont early on. So you can have 3 or 4 guys riding around with war skills that take them maybe an hour or two to level up who have the potential to wipe out a group of 10-20 people fairly easily. If the griefers want to spend another 30-45 minutes and level up and make some armor then that guesstimate might actually be low.
That was one of the first things we 'tested' when the game first came out, the 'ease' griefers had in the game.
Obviously you need some forms of PvP. If you didnt then the game wouldnt be all that fun. But you dont need open world always 'on' PvP.
Nothing wrong with having 'safe' cities or zones (based on claim borders) and then having bandits and outlaws out and about. We did that on several servers. We made roads and connected settlements which obviously aided the bandits in knowing the better routes but the traders and travelers knew the risks and the people they had to watch for. THAT is a 'natural' progression' of a sandbox type game. Organized chaos more or less. Total free for all nonsense cannot work and it never will no matter what safeguards people think have been put in place to stop it.
Actually, I guess they would have fun for the first 4 kills, then after that the killers would realize that they have just become permanently flagged red. They would show red to everyone and they can then be killed by anyone and those people would not receive an alignment hit. Then that red player would also notice that every time they are killed they lose a massive amount of skillpoints. The amount of skillpoint loss is tied to how low your alignment is.
Don't get me wrong, because we love pvp. Random killing will get you these negative alignment hits, but organized clan or kingdom warfare does not have any alignment penalties associated with it.
Keep in mind the random serial killers have been flagged perma-red. You purchase characters for the mmo, not slots. You cannot just simply delete a toon and reroll. Deleting your toon will require purchase of a new character or you can just simply live the very difficult but miserable life of a mass murderer which is the way it should be.
The alignment system has balances though. You can pray once every 24 hours "real time" to gain one point back of alignment. A murder will net you a loss of 10 to 15 points of alignment.
what to expect? Griefers camping each and every initial spawn point killing you as fast as you create a character.
Game had (still has) potential but this this hard headed notion they MUST keep it 'hardcore' is a no sale for most and will drive what few people who want to try it or have a free copy coming away.
And sadly When (and yes they will) change to at least some PvE 'safe' zones it will be too late, everyone will be gone. If ANYTHING has been proven in the MMO genre (and many things havent) full scale 'hardcore', consistent open world PvP has never worked. So by the time they realize they lost what niche group they already had that was interested in this game it will be too late to get them back. Same story different game. And this is one game that needs a larger population to make it fun, and really to make it 'work' at all.
A PvE version of this game is in essence Wurm Online which has been around for 15 years. This game borrows a lot from Wurm Online it just has considerably better graphics.
I agree with what you say though, and I think its why so many have gone to playing private server games which this Title also has
With private servers I just might give it a try myself. Public ones, where I have to deal with the worst of cesspool of the MMO community? Pass. xD
I thought only LiF:YO had the private servers thing though. The MMO will have them too?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
But in essence for the guys that are going to ultimately ruin this game it is similar to that except its make a toon rank up killing skills go kill anyone and everyone you see. Once you get to a kill on sight status delete and start over again.
Vast majority of people will be leveling up PvE skills and what few PvP skill people who are in groups will be bored because the griefers wont bother with them (for awhile).
You can NEVER underestimate the will of a griefer or a person looking to destroy someone elses fun.
Because what will eventually happen is these so called 'diverse' groups will eventually have the 'soldiers' get bored (or turn to mercenaries themselves) and stop playing or leave the group theyre 'protecting' or turn the group into a supported mercenary/griefer entity.
This idea that players will 'police' themselves has always been a pipe dream, wee have seen it fail in every single game that has attempted it.
In the very least, PERSONAL claims should be 100% safe zones (barring aggressive behavior by the owner). Again we have made dozens of suggestions none of which have been heeded. So it will go the way of every other game with great potential. I hope I am wrong but I know I am not. I will, like I said, play it when it comes out and will play the beta version I am eligible for. That will give me a much better handle on what has changed, but I dont think much has.
Game has some pretty innovative things, terraforming best of any game, weather system was better but its still good. Unless they got rid of the system that makes the weather predictable, then it is back to being good again. Buildings could be a little more free form and not just all the same look but that is a so so compromise.
In the end 3 or 4 organized grifers with minimalist aggressive skills will be able to wipe out a settlement 4 or 5 times their number of people who dont put any points into war skills, which most wont early on. So you can have 3 or 4 guys riding around with war skills that take them maybe an hour or two to level up who have the potential to wipe out a group of 10-20 people fairly easily. If the griefers want to spend another 30-45 minutes and level up and make some armor then that guesstimate might actually be low.
That was one of the first things we 'tested' when the game first came out, the 'ease' griefers had in the game.
Obviously you need some forms of PvP. If you didnt then the game wouldnt be all that fun. But you dont need open world always 'on' PvP.
Nothing wrong with having 'safe' cities or zones (based on claim borders) and then having bandits and outlaws out and about. We did that on several servers. We made roads and connected settlements which obviously aided the bandits in knowing the better routes but the traders and travelers knew the risks and the people they had to watch for. THAT is a 'natural' progression' of a sandbox type game. Organized chaos more or less. Total free for all nonsense cannot work and it never will no matter what safeguards people think have been put in place to stop it.
Actually, I guess they would have fun for the first 4 kills, then after that the killers would realize that they have just become permanently flagged red. They would show red to everyone and they can then be killed by anyone and those people would not receive an alignment hit. Then that red player would also notice that every time they are killed they lose a massive amount of skillpoints. The amount of skillpoint loss is tied to how low your alignment is.
Don't get me wrong, because we love pvp. Random killing will get you these negative alignment hits, but organized clan or kingdom warfare does not have any alignment penalties associated with it.
Keep in mind the random serial killers have been flagged perma-red. You purchase characters for the mmo, not slots. You cannot just simply delete a toon and reroll. Deleting your toon will require purchase of a new character or you can just simply live the very difficult but miserable life of a mass murderer which is the way it should be.
The alignment system has balances though. You can pray once every 24 hours "real time" to gain one point back of alignment. A murder will net you a loss of 10 to 15 points of alignment.
That's pretty cool, and a LOT better than most OW Full PvP titles.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
But in essence for the guys that are going to ultimately ruin this game it is similar to that except its make a toon rank up killing skills go kill anyone and everyone you see. Once you get to a kill on sight status delete and start over again.
Vast majority of people will be leveling up PvE skills and what few PvP skill people who are in groups will be bored because the griefers wont bother with them (for awhile).
You can NEVER underestimate the will of a griefer or a person looking to destroy someone elses fun.
Because what will eventually happen is these so called 'diverse' groups will eventually have the 'soldiers' get bored (or turn to mercenaries themselves) and stop playing or leave the group theyre 'protecting' or turn the group into a supported mercenary/griefer entity.
This idea that players will 'police' themselves has always been a pipe dream, wee have seen it fail in every single game that has attempted it.
In the very least, PERSONAL claims should be 100% safe zones (barring aggressive behavior by the owner). Again we have made dozens of suggestions none of which have been heeded. So it will go the way of every other game with great potential. I hope I am wrong but I know I am not. I will, like I said, play it when it comes out and will play the beta version I am eligible for. That will give me a much better handle on what has changed, but I dont think much has.
Game has some pretty innovative things, terraforming best of any game, weather system was better but its still good. Unless they got rid of the system that makes the weather predictable, then it is back to being good again. Buildings could be a little more free form and not just all the same look but that is a so so compromise.
In the end 3 or 4 organized grifers with minimalist aggressive skills will be able to wipe out a settlement 4 or 5 times their number of people who dont put any points into war skills, which most wont early on. So you can have 3 or 4 guys riding around with war skills that take them maybe an hour or two to level up who have the potential to wipe out a group of 10-20 people fairly easily. If the griefers want to spend another 30-45 minutes and level up and make some armor then that guesstimate might actually be low.
That was one of the first things we 'tested' when the game first came out, the 'ease' griefers had in the game.
Obviously you need some forms of PvP. If you didnt then the game wouldnt be all that fun. But you dont need open world always 'on' PvP.
Nothing wrong with having 'safe' cities or zones (based on claim borders) and then having bandits and outlaws out and about. We did that on several servers. We made roads and connected settlements which obviously aided the bandits in knowing the better routes but the traders and travelers knew the risks and the people they had to watch for. THAT is a 'natural' progression' of a sandbox type game. Organized chaos more or less. Total free for all nonsense cannot work and it never will no matter what safeguards people think have been put in place to stop it.
Actually, I guess they would have fun for the first 4 kills, then after that the killers would realize that they have just become permanently flagged red. They would show red to everyone and they can then be killed by anyone and those people would not receive an alignment hit. Then that red player would also notice that every time they are killed they lose a massive amount of skillpoints. The amount of skillpoint loss is tied to how low your alignment is.
Don't get me wrong, because we love pvp. Random killing will get you these negative alignment hits, but organized clan or kingdom warfare does not have any alignment penalties associated with it.
Keep in mind the random serial killers have been flagged perma-red. You purchase characters for the mmo, not slots. You cannot just simply delete a toon and reroll. Deleting your toon will require purchase of a new character or you can just simply live the very difficult but miserable life of a mass murderer which is the way it should be.
The alignment system has balances though. You can pray once every 24 hours "real time" to gain one point back of alignment. A murder will net you a loss of 10 to 15 points of alignment.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Because even if it is cool and different it is still going to be a bad gameplay experience if youre getting griefed and attacked all the time. Unless you like that sort of thing, but as evidenced buy the LONG list of games with this same set up there arent many that do.
Unlike many, LiF is not one of those where many go solo and stay that way, the game clearly motivates people to ally and play together, everyone with their own role on a settlement.
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
And how did that work out for Darkfall?
Well, in fairness, is it the system that Darkfall had or that the game had issues?
I'm pretty sure that the people who followed Darkfall for its long development knew what they were getting into.
but the most important part of that story you missed.
The game is closed, done, all intents and purposes a failed project.
so what does that stand for this one?
But did it fail because of what it was or because the developers were bad businessmen or didn't fix things and add things in a correct and timely fashion? At least in a way that made the game better over time and allowed their players some confidence in the game's future?
Additionally, getting back to the "businessmen" part of the equation, did they realistically figure out how much money they needed to stay afloat or did they just take whatever investment they had and hope for the best?
Both teams handling Darkfall aren't making a game from the ground up, they are taking a game that is playable and tweaking, adding, fixing things. Of course they very well may be "hoping for the best" but at least one of the teams sounds like older, more experienced people who crunched the numbers and figured out that getting the game off the ground was possible.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Meh... it just looks like a survival game taken to MMO levels. Not for me. Just like I want taking a dump or peeing abstracted and unseen in my RPGs, I feel the same way about over-gathering or building.
The Hive Leader might be witty enough to make paint drying worth watching for 3 minutes but that's the extent of my ability to engage in something as mundane and annoying as gathering plant fiber. I want a medieval Home Depot and a contractor I can hire to build my castle while I do fun things like slaughter all living things
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The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
You just nailed the fatal flaw in "sandbox" games. In an effort to create more open ended games, they eliminate elements that provide players with a reason to continue playing the game.
There's a balance there, and when someone is able to merge real player progression and content with an open ended game full of different ways to play the game, the mmorpg genre as we know it will be revitalized.
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
You just nailed the fatal flaw in "sandbox" games. In an effort to create more open ended games, they eliminate elements that provide players with a reason to continue playing the game.
There's a balance there, and when someone is able to merge real player progression and content with an open ended game full of different ways to play the game, the mmorpg genre as we know it will be revitalized.
Yup thats why most (all) fail or in the very least have ot have mini servers (like ARK, Arma, DayZ, Rust, and now Conan Exiles) that they reset and restart every 4-8 weeks.
The size of the map MIGHT buy this game some time but I suspect people will be out scanning all the natural resources they can logistically get to. CArpet bombing all the high end natiural spots and hoarding it all. Obviously numbers are going to matter somewhat and as with other 'sandbox' type games it will be if you can beat them you join them. So you will have 'mega' guilds or at least alliances that will spread out over the map and people will make alts to park in their alliance areas so a large enough group with 2 or 3 characters per player will be able to control a very large portion of the map, and obtain and hoard the resources.
Now some will say that is 'natural'. But it also leads to the fundamental flaw with these types of games, late comers. A year from now who is going to want to try the game anew when 90% f the resources and land are gone? At least anything worth owning or defending. Which will of course lead to 'they will just have to join a town or alliance'. Well that basically strikes out the whole 'sandbox' argument. Because if the FIRST thing youre FORCED to do (to find any sort of quality existence) is join someone else or others who have been playing for months, that isnt sandbox at all. People that log in will find empty spaces to settle but more than likely any natural resources will have been picked clean by then. And in a game like this where Quality is the end all be all that is a HUGE advantage for players who got it first and a huge disadvantage for people who come in sucking hind tit.
And it also isnt like they can eventually trade for that stuff because if its a finite resource the prices will be exorbitant (if people are willing to sell at all) and anything someone migh tbe able to trade would be something that a lot of other people, and more than likely members of the guild or alliance can also produce so it wouldnt be needed i.e. 100Q Live stock, horses, wood etc. The one thing that sort of was tradable (because it was a pin in the ass) was Flux and the other special alchemy stuff, but the boxes made that ridiculously easy to get once you learned a couple combinations.
We will see how the larger scale betas go and I suspect a lot of these issues (and others I havent gone into) will get 'exposed' in pretty short order. Along with of course the whole griefing and ganking issues that will be rampant.
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
You just nailed the fatal flaw in "sandbox" games. In an effort to create more open ended games, they eliminate elements that provide players with a reason to continue playing the game.
There's a balance there, and when someone is able to merge real player progression and content with an open ended game full of different ways to play the game, the mmorpg genre as we know it will be revitalized.
Yup thats why most (all) fail or in the very least have ot have mini servers (like ARK, Arma, DayZ, Rust, and now Conan Exiles) that they reset and restart every 4-8 weeks.
The size of the map MIGHT buy this game some time but I suspect people will be out scanning all the natural resources they can logistically get to. CArpet bombing all the high end natiural spots and hoarding it all. Obviously numbers are going to matter somewhat and as with other 'sandbox' type games it will be if you can beat them you join them. So you will have 'mega' guilds or at least alliances that will spread out over the map and people will make alts to park in their alliance areas so a large enough group with 2 or 3 characters per player will be able to control a very large portion of the map, and obtain and hoard the resources.
Now some will say that is 'natural'. But it also leads to the fundamental flaw with these types of games, late comers. A year from now who is going to want to try the game anew when 90% f the resources and land are gone? At least anything worth owning or defending. Which will of course lead to 'they will just have to join a town or alliance'. Well that basically strikes out the whole 'sandbox' argument. Because if the FIRST thing youre FORCED to do (to find any sort of quality existence) is join someone else or others who have been playing for months, that isnt sandbox at all. People that log in will find empty spaces to settle but more than likely any natural resources will have been picked clean by then. And in a game like this where Quality is the end all be all that is a HUGE advantage for players who got it first and a huge disadvantage for people who come in sucking hind tit.
And it also isnt like they can eventually trade for that stuff because if its a finite resource the prices will be exorbitant (if people are willing to sell at all) and anything someone migh tbe able to trade would be something that a lot of other people, and more than likely members of the guild or alliance can also produce so it wouldnt be needed i.e. 100Q Live stock, horses, wood etc. The one thing that sort of was tradable (because it was a pin in the ass) was Flux and the other special alchemy stuff, but the boxes made that ridiculously easy to get once you learned a couple combinations.
We will see how the larger scale betas go and I suspect a lot of these issues (and others I havent gone into) will get 'exposed' in pretty short order. Along with of course the whole griefing and ganking issues that will be rampant.
Realize in the real world resources are finite, yet we've had over 500 years of steady technological advancement which supports billions upon billions of people.
Yet of course we've fought for these resources for 10s of thousands of years.
Im sure DEVs of this game are going for something more like this in designing their world.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The gameplay looks okay. Personally, I'd like to see some non-sandbox elements -- like Character Advancement, NPC's, Quests, and Bosses -- mixed in with all of that sandbox stuff.
If all there is to do is Harvest, Craft, Building, and PvP, I'm going to pass.
You just nailed the fatal flaw in "sandbox" games. In an effort to create more open ended games, they eliminate elements that provide players with a reason to continue playing the game.
There's a balance there, and when someone is able to merge real player progression and content with an open ended game full of different ways to play the game, the mmorpg genre as we know it will be revitalized.
Yup thats why most (all) fail or in the very least have ot have mini servers (like ARK, Arma, DayZ, Rust, and now Conan Exiles) that they reset and restart every 4-8 weeks.
The size of the map MIGHT buy this game some time but I suspect people will be out scanning all the natural resources they can logistically get to. CArpet bombing all the high end natiural spots and hoarding it all. Obviously numbers are going to matter somewhat and as with other 'sandbox' type games it will be if you can beat them you join them. So you will have 'mega' guilds or at least alliances that will spread out over the map and people will make alts to park in their alliance areas so a large enough group with 2 or 3 characters per player will be able to control a very large portion of the map, and obtain and hoard the resources.
Now some will say that is 'natural'. But it also leads to the fundamental flaw with these types of games, late comers. A year from now who is going to want to try the game anew when 90% f the resources and land are gone? At least anything worth owning or defending. Which will of course lead to 'they will just have to join a town or alliance'. Well that basically strikes out the whole 'sandbox' argument. Because if the FIRST thing youre FORCED to do (to find any sort of quality existence) is join someone else or others who have been playing for months, that isnt sandbox at all. People that log in will find empty spaces to settle but more than likely any natural resources will have been picked clean by then. And in a game like this where Quality is the end all be all that is a HUGE advantage for players who got it first and a huge disadvantage for people who come in sucking hind tit.
And it also isnt like they can eventually trade for that stuff because if its a finite resource the prices will be exorbitant (if people are willing to sell at all) and anything someone migh tbe able to trade would be something that a lot of other people, and more than likely members of the guild or alliance can also produce so it wouldnt be needed i.e. 100Q Live stock, horses, wood etc. The one thing that sort of was tradable (because it was a pin in the ass) was Flux and the other special alchemy stuff, but the boxes made that ridiculously easy to get once you learned a couple combinations.
We will see how the larger scale betas go and I suspect a lot of these issues (and others I havent gone into) will get 'exposed' in pretty short order. Along with of course the whole griefing and ganking issues that will be rampant.
Realize in the real world resources are finite, yet we've had over 500 years of steady technological advancement which supports billions upon billions of people.
Yet of course we've fought for these resources for 10s of thousands of years.
Im sure DEVs of this game are going for something more like this in designing their world.
I think they said trees didn't regrow though (unlike on most survival games and RL), and neither do some other resources that were renewable during the 500 years of technological advancements. I think they mean for there to be competition over these resources, but I'm curious how they plan to tackle the issue mentioned above. AKA some mega alliance owning it all.
Sounds like once one such group grows dominant, the rest is kinda royally screwed. I mean... they can't even get sticks to hit these guys with a year or two into the game lol
Unless I'm missing something of course.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Comments
As for the 2nd point is the same thing, community play, not solo play. Players who don't want to get constantly attacked should align themselves with stronger kingdoms and get a layer of protection.
You don't need scripted gameplay mechanics to get the gameplay you want, you can't just scream "change the game!" because you start and end up raided and attacked without a chance to fight back, that's just part of it; the unforgiveness of it is what drives people to play together, making the process of the creation of a guild/settlement hard.
I'm pretty sure that the people who followed Darkfall for its long development knew what they were getting into.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Obviously, the weaker you are the bigger the target you are, especially if you decide your path is to build a little house with no defense in the middle of the woods and expect "the game" will protect you from other players.
The game is closed, done, all intents and purposes a failed project.
so what does that stand for this one?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
^That's pretty much me...
I have to say, it looks prettier than I thought it would though.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I mean with all due respect if what you are looking for in a game is some mob farming, quest chaining, and raids why the fuck would even bother playing anything other than what your playing now? that is a serious question. I dont understand why
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
semi strawman.
But in essence for the guys that are going to ultimately ruin this game it is similar to that except its make a toon rank up killing skills go kill anyone and everyone you see. Once you get to a kill on sight status delete and start over again.
Vast majority of people will be leveling up PvE skills and what few PvP skill people who are in groups will be bored because the griefers wont bother with them (for awhile).
You can NEVER underestimate the will of a griefer or a person looking to destroy someone elses fun.
Because what will eventually happen is these so called 'diverse' groups will eventually have the 'soldiers' get bored (or turn to mercenaries themselves) and stop playing or leave the group theyre 'protecting' or turn the group into a supported mercenary/griefer entity.
This idea that players will 'police' themselves has always been a pipe dream, wee have seen it fail in every single game that has attempted it.
In the very least, PERSONAL claims should be 100% safe zones (barring aggressive behavior by the owner). Again we have made dozens of suggestions none of which have been heeded. So it will go the way of every other game with great potential. I hope I am wrong but I know I am not. I will, like I said, play it when it comes out and will play the beta version I am eligible for. That will give me a much better handle on what has changed, but I dont think much has.
Game has some pretty innovative things, terraforming best of any game, weather system was better but its still good. Unless they got rid of the system that makes the weather predictable, then it is back to being good again. Buildings could be a little more free form and not just all the same look but that is a so so compromise.
In the end 3 or 4 organized grifers with minimalist aggressive skills will be able to wipe out a settlement 4 or 5 times their number of people who dont put any points into war skills, which most wont early on. So you can have 3 or 4 guys riding around with war skills that take them maybe an hour or two to level up who have the potential to wipe out a group of 10-20 people fairly easily. If the griefers want to spend another 30-45 minutes and level up and make some armor then that guesstimate might actually be low.
That was one of the first things we 'tested' when the game first came out, the 'ease' griefers had in the game.
Obviously you need some forms of PvP. If you didnt then the game wouldnt be all that fun. But you dont need open world always 'on' PvP.
Nothing wrong with having 'safe' cities or zones (based on claim borders) and then having bandits and outlaws out and about. We did that on several servers. We made roads and connected settlements which obviously aided the bandits in knowing the better routes but the traders and travelers knew the risks and the people they had to watch for. THAT is a 'natural' progression' of a sandbox type game. Organized chaos more or less. Total free for all nonsense cannot work and it never will no matter what safeguards people think have been put in place to stop it.
Don't get me wrong, because we love pvp. Random killing will get you these negative alignment hits, but organized clan or kingdom warfare does not have any alignment penalties associated with it.
Keep in mind the random serial killers have been flagged perma-red. You purchase characters for the mmo, not slots. You cannot just simply delete a toon and reroll. Deleting your toon will require purchase of a new character or you can just simply live the very difficult but miserable life of a mass murderer which is the way it should be.
The alignment system has balances though. You can pray once every 24 hours "real time" to gain one point back of alignment. A murder will net you a loss of 10 to 15 points of alignment.
Here is a detailed explanation of alignment: https://lifeisfeudal.gamepedia.com/Alignment
Life IS Feudal
With private servers I just might give it a try myself. Public ones, where I have to deal with the worst of cesspool of the MMO community? Pass. xD
I thought only LiF:YO had the private servers thing though. The MMO will have them too?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
That's pretty cool, and a LOT better than most OW Full PvP titles.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
What's to stop a player from starting a clan and declare war on everyone, thus bypassing the alignment system penalty?
The system will be designed so exploits like this will not be possible, nor any other type of gaming the system bs.
Life IS Feudal
Is this an exploit? In EVE some groups wardec, 30 to 50 corps a week, not against the rules.
I'd be interested in seeing more info on controlling such behaviors.
Sounds as if this game will try very hard to make things such as going to war (or murder) have a real cost and not to be taken lightly.
Too often MMOs force the "victims" to shoulder most of the risk of real loss, with little consequence to the attacker.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But did it fail because of what it was or because the developers were bad businessmen or didn't fix things and add things in a correct and timely fashion? At least in a way that made the game better over time and allowed their players some confidence in the game's future?
Additionally, getting back to the "businessmen" part of the equation, did they realistically figure out how much money they needed to stay afloat or did they just take whatever investment they had and hope for the best?
Both teams handling Darkfall aren't making a game from the ground up, they are taking a game that is playable and tweaking, adding, fixing things. Of course they very well may be "hoping for the best" but at least one of the teams sounds like older, more experienced people who crunched the numbers and figured out that getting the game off the ground was possible.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The Hive Leader might be witty enough to make paint drying worth watching for 3 minutes but that's the extent of my ability to engage in something as mundane and annoying as gathering plant fiber. I want a medieval Home Depot and a contractor I can hire to build my castle while I do fun things like slaughter all living things
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You just nailed the fatal flaw in "sandbox" games. In an effort to create more open ended games, they eliminate elements that provide players with a reason to continue playing the game.
There's a balance there, and when someone is able to merge real player progression and content with an open ended game full of different ways to play the game, the mmorpg genre as we know it will be revitalized.
Yup thats why most (all) fail or in the very least have ot have mini servers (like ARK, Arma, DayZ, Rust, and now Conan Exiles) that they reset and restart every 4-8 weeks.
The size of the map MIGHT buy this game some time but I suspect people will be out scanning all the natural resources they can logistically get to. CArpet bombing all the high end natiural spots and hoarding it all. Obviously numbers are going to matter somewhat and as with other 'sandbox' type games it will be if you can beat them you join them. So you will have 'mega' guilds or at least alliances that will spread out over the map and people will make alts to park in their alliance areas so a large enough group with 2 or 3 characters per player will be able to control a very large portion of the map, and obtain and hoard the resources.
Now some will say that is 'natural'. But it also leads to the fundamental flaw with these types of games, late comers. A year from now who is going to want to try the game anew when 90% f the resources and land are gone? At least anything worth owning or defending. Which will of course lead to 'they will just have to join a town or alliance'. Well that basically strikes out the whole 'sandbox' argument. Because if the FIRST thing youre FORCED to do (to find any sort of quality existence) is join someone else or others who have been playing for months, that isnt sandbox at all. People that log in will find empty spaces to settle but more than likely any natural resources will have been picked clean by then. And in a game like this where Quality is the end all be all that is a HUGE advantage for players who got it first and a huge disadvantage for people who come in sucking hind tit.
And it also isnt like they can eventually trade for that stuff because if its a finite resource the prices will be exorbitant (if people are willing to sell at all) and anything someone migh tbe able to trade would be something that a lot of other people, and more than likely members of the guild or alliance can also produce so it wouldnt be needed i.e. 100Q Live stock, horses, wood etc. The one thing that sort of was tradable (because it was a pin in the ass) was Flux and the other special alchemy stuff, but the boxes made that ridiculously easy to get once you learned a couple combinations.
We will see how the larger scale betas go and I suspect a lot of these issues (and others I havent gone into) will get 'exposed' in pretty short order. Along with of course the whole griefing and ganking issues that will be rampant.
Realize in the real world resources are finite, yet we've had over 500 years of steady technological advancement which supports billions upon billions of people.
Yet of course we've fought for these resources for 10s of thousands of years.
Im sure DEVs of this game are going for something more like this in designing their world.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think they said trees didn't regrow though (unlike on most survival games and RL), and neither do some other resources that were renewable during the 500 years of technological advancements. I think they mean for there to be competition over these resources, but I'm curious how they plan to tackle the issue mentioned above. AKA some mega alliance owning it all.
Sounds like once one such group grows dominant, the rest is kinda royally screwed. I mean... they can't even get sticks to hit these guys with a year or two into the game lol
Unless I'm missing something of course.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/