I think it is very fair to say if a game is clearly marked as PvP or a server is, to then go play the game or on that server and then complain about is is daft. That is crystal clear but not so in those games which after a certain level they introduce non consensual PvP. The players are not expecting it or they might think it will not affect them but discover they cannot advance then since they have already invested some time and effort into the game it makes their complaints not so black and white don't you think so? In such cases they might complain and loudly at that and of course you can argue why did you not study what happens when you get to a certain level. Well, wish that we were all so prudent in our investigations of the games we play but not everyone is and it is this subset that end up bitterly angry and put upon.
I hate to say it because it felt a bit smarmy at the time, but Aion was like that.
When members of the NC West staff were introducing the game players kept asking about "forced pvp".
They kept saying "you get to play your way" but sort of danced around the point. Of course people could play their way but would they have to deal with "other people playing their way".
In their defense, I think they were made to dance around the issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
In a game like Darkfall lets face it... most of us are trying to talk our girl to playing with! ... . and others too, that are not interested in PVP. The PVE alone is worth it though, its a pretty fun game even if you are bad at PVP, just prepare for the losses and its no biggie.
: P
that was how I felt about the game. The game overall for its day was outstanding as a game in of itself. So for me it was worth playing even though I was only PvE. I just took my loses but honestly on average I always came out ahead on my skills and materials in the long run anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Me, I want to play a good, fair and competitive pvp mmorpg, but I don't think there are any. Except for EVE, and I'm not a big fan of space warfare.
Sorry man "fair" is not a feature of "EVE". The high traffic areas are full of people sniping anybody carrying enough value (google "eve suicide ganking"). At least those guys are doing it for a reason. Then there's the corporations (guilds) that declare war on anything that moves, camp the trade hubs for the easy kills and run and hide if a real threat shows up (and my goodness the tears are epic when they get caught).
There's no such thing as forced non consensual PvP. When you're curious about a new game it takes 2 minutes to read up on it and learn the PvP rule set. If you choose to play a FFA PvP centric game with full loot and later complain because you got ganked while picking daisies, I'm sorry but you're a bloody idiot. Even without going to such extremes, if you play WoW and you choose to play on a PvP realm and then QQ 24/7 because you get ganked every now and then, you're also an idiot. Nobody has ever forced PvP on anyone in any MMO. You guys make it sound like real life rape, give me a break. People CHOOSE to play these games, nobody is forcing anyone. If you don't like getting ganked, don't play games that allow ganking. Pretty freakin simple.
To everyone reading this topic.. read this a few more times. This is why PvP centrist games that try to entice PvE players fail.
In a game like Darkfall lets face it... most of us are trying to talk our girl to playing with! ... . and others too, that are not interested in PVP. The PVE alone is worth it though, its a pretty fun game even if you are bad at PVP, just prepare for the losses and its no biggie.
: P
that was how I felt about the game. The game overall for its day was outstanding as a game in of itself. So for me it was worth playing even though I was only PvE. I just took my loses but honestly on average I always came out ahead on my skills and materials in the long run anyway.
Me, I want to play a good, fair and competitive pvp mmorpg, but I don't think there are any. Except for EVE, and I'm not a big fan of space warfare.
Sorry man "fair" is not a feature of "EVE". The high traffic areas are full of people sniping anybody carrying enough value (google "eve suicide ganking"). At least those guys are doing it for a reason. Then there's the corporations (guilds) that declare war on anything that moves, camp the trade hubs for the easy kills and run and hide if a real threat shows up (and my goodness the tears are epic when they get caught).
Yeah, no. EVE is a griefer's paradise.
Despite that I would definitely consider EVE the most fair PvP MMO out there. Griefer ridden? Yes. Potential for ganks and zergs? Yes.
Potential to hop in and actually have fun and make kills against veteran players in your first couple weeks of play on fresh character? Yes.
The disparity between vet and newb is far less overwhelming in EVE than anywhere else, and that's at least why I would consider it the most fair PvP MMO.
Me, I want to play a good, fair and competitive pvp mmorpg, but I don't think there are any. Except for EVE, and I'm not a big fan of space warfare.
Sorry man "fair" is not a feature of "EVE". The high traffic areas are full of people sniping anybody carrying enough value (google "eve suicide ganking"). At least those guys are doing it for a reason. Then there's the corporations (guilds) that declare war on anything that moves, camp the trade hubs for the easy kills and run and hide if a real threat shows up (and my goodness the tears are epic when they get caught).
Yeah, no. EVE is a griefer's paradise.
Despite that I would definitely consider EVE the most fair PvP MMO out there. Griefer ridden? Yes. Potential for ganks and zergs? Yes.
Potential to hop in and actually have fun and make kills against veteran players in your first couple weeks of play on fresh character? Yes.
The disparity between vet and newb is far less overwhelming in EVE than anywhere else, and that's at least why I would consider it the most fair PvP MMO.
You have not played WvW in GW2 yet I wager. It is the most Fair PvP you will find, in fact, you can, if you have the skills, beat veteran players within the end of your first day playing.
There's no such thing as forced non consensual PvP. When you're curious about a new game it takes 2 minutes to read up on it and learn the PvP rule set. If you choose to play a FFA PvP centric game with full loot and later complain because you got ganked while picking daisies, I'm sorry but you're a bloody idiot. Even without going to such extremes, if you play WoW and you choose to play on a PvP realm and then QQ 24/7 because you get ganked every now and then, you're also an idiot. Nobody has ever forced PvP on anyone in any MMO. You guys make it sound like real life rape, give me a break. People CHOOSE to play these games, nobody is forcing anyone. If you don't like getting ganked, don't play games that allow ganking. Pretty freakin simple.
To everyone reading this topic.. read this a few more times. This is why PvP centrist games that try to entice PvE players fail.
There's no such thing as forced non consensual PvP. When you're curious about a new game it takes 2 minutes to read up on it and learn the PvP rule set. If you choose to play a FFA PvP centric game with full loot and later complain because you got ganked while picking daisies, I'm sorry but you're a bloody idiot. Even without going to such extremes, if you play WoW and you choose to play on a PvP realm and then QQ 24/7 because you get ganked every now and then, you're also an idiot. Nobody has ever forced PvP on anyone in any MMO. You guys make it sound like real life rape, give me a break. People CHOOSE to play these games, nobody is forcing anyone. If you don't like getting ganked, don't play games that allow ganking. Pretty freakin simple.
To everyone reading this topic.. read this a few more times. This is why PvP centrist games that try to entice PvE players fail.
Name a single PvP centrist game please.
EVE,
-- need a another?
Mortal Online
-- Need another?
Dark Age of Camelot.
--Want me to keep going?
EVE = Griefing and scamming encouraged. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Mortal Online = No safezones outside cities. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Dark Age of Camelot = Never played it and so I can't comment however given you are 0/2 on the games I do know I question your judgment.
There's no such thing as forced non consensual PvP. When you're curious about a new game it takes 2 minutes to read up on it and learn the PvP rule set. If you choose to play a FFA PvP centric game with full loot and later complain because you got ganked while picking daisies, I'm sorry but you're a bloody idiot. Even without going to such extremes, if you play WoW and you choose to play on a PvP realm and then QQ 24/7 because you get ganked every now and then, you're also an idiot. Nobody has ever forced PvP on anyone in any MMO. You guys make it sound like real life rape, give me a break. People CHOOSE to play these games, nobody is forcing anyone. If you don't like getting ganked, don't play games that allow ganking. Pretty freakin simple.
To everyone reading this topic.. read this a few more times. This is why PvP centrist games that try to entice PvE players fail.
Name a single PvP centrist game please.
EVE,
-- need a another?
Mortal Online
-- Need another?
Dark Age of Camelot.
--Want me to keep going?
EVE = Griefing and scamming encouraged. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Mortal Online = No safezones outside cities. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Dark Age of Camelot = Never played it and so I can't comment however given you are 0/2 on the games I do know I question your judgment.
I see my bad... Auto-correct made it Centrist.. I meant to type Centric. Which, as irony would have it, Autocorrect thinks is spelled wrong...
It isn't dead. It just doesn't have the same shelf life. Instead of leveling up on a treadmill, the goal is to push other players out of the game. People just get their feelings hurt lol.
In a game like Darkfall lets face it... most of us are trying to talk our girl to playing with! ... . and others too, that are not interested in PVP. The PVE alone is worth it though, its a pretty fun game even if you are bad at PVP, just prepare for the losses and its no biggie.
: P
that was how I felt about the game. The game overall for its day was outstanding as a game in of itself. So for me it was worth playing even though I was only PvE. I just took my loses but honestly on average I always came out ahead on my skills and materials in the long run anyway.
No game is worth getting abused over.
I think in this case for it to be abuse I would have to give a shit. But as it turns out I didnt care about the lose, the poeple, the community nothing, just played it like a single player game and ignored everything else
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Seems people still feel entitled to play any game they choose and that everyone else has to adapt to them.
Don't like pvp? Don't play a pvp game/server. They can't make it any more dumbed-down than that. At some point, it's YOU not THEM.
on reflection I think the point is around those who discuss, palaver, contemplate and debate over the question of how to bring pve players into a pvp game which is a retarded conversation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm so sick and tired of the pvp bs, really. So many games come out that look like they have great potential, thoughtful crafting systems...and oh, no, wait, more FFA PVP GARBAGE.
For me, open-world PvP is just lazy design - can't come up with meaningful content so just let players fight each other is more and more prevalent and quite frankly, is a cop-out. Its completely possible to have a meaningful game without pvp entirely; its also possible to have a good, meaningful game with plenty of PvP features that aren't jammed down the throats of everyone - mmos that have lasted decades with these sorts of rulesets are a testament to this. Developers are missing out on a HUGE demographic here.
The PvPers say they want challenge and thrill, and that may be true for some, but the reality is most of these people want to gank, grief, inconvenience, or otherwise hassle people with less time investment in the game just to be obnoxious.
If you can't have fun without ruining someone else's time, that doesn't make you elite, or a good player, or honorable - it makes you a jerk. Dragging non-interested parties is just giving PvPers more victims -undergeared, uninterested victims - and soon enough, nobody bothers with the game anymore because its not fun to get steamrolled if you take 1 foot outside of town.
Reputation systems and such do nothing to dissuade this behavior, if people want to be jerks, the will be jerks. They make alts to be jerks, or entire new accounts to be jerks. I don't know if its just childish crap or if these are adults who get bullied in their real lives and have some sort of psychological clutch-up that makes them need to victimize people in a virtual world to fill some emptiness in their lives, but I am absolutely sick to death of game developers catering for it.
Sure, sure, some of these kids will spend money - ridiculous amounts of it - to pay to win in some games. But you know who has more money? The older gamer, the casual gamer, the gamer with a JOB and a decent income who doesn't want to come home and log on to babysit a bunch of immature pvp kiddies and deal with crap.
Gaming? That's not gaming! That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
I love pvp with a purpose. I even can appreciate no purpose as long as it is immersive with some kind of penalty system. If you want to rp a murderer or pirate cool, but just as in life there are consequences for that. I enjoy the thrill and risk of being attacked by a bad guy that knows they are committing a crime and is willing to suffer the consequences for their playstyle.
What I despise is meaningless pvp with no downside for those it serves as a playground for to cause others misery. Why people think games like this have any chance of success is baffling to me. The only people who enjoy them are the griefers.
As already stated quite a few times, the problem with those games is that none has been done with proper consequences for being a psychopathic murderer. As a result, PvP takes over the whole game, there's no RP left at all. Unless you admit that almost every player is "roleplaying" some kind of serial killer of course.
I take it none of your characters has ever mass slaughtered a castle of NPC "guards" or a village of "enemy"NPCs simply to grind XP or complete a quest? It's OK to RP a mass murderer as long as they are just NPCs?
For better or worse, 95% of MMORPGs today is finding new things to kill and ways to kill them...
PS: We are posting in a 1 year old necro thread...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Consider for a moment that if you transported yourself back in time to the dark ages, you would not be wandering freely through the forest gathering your curds and whey.
It was a dangerous time. If it wasn't the wildlife trying to kill you, it was the elements. If it wasn't the elements trying to kill you, it was the neighboring factions trying to annex you. Then there were thieves and other near do wells that were just trying to survive at your expense.
This so called non-consensual PVP is utter crap in a role playing game that is for all portents is set in the dark ages. You carry a sword do you not? Wear chainmail? Ride horses? Hunt and gather?
Exactly where did the notion of being completely safe come from? And what about the taxes? The local power went around annexing taxes from the poor peasants. They took food and goods if there was no currency to be had. You were conscripted into armies to fight for the king. There wasn't a place you could be that wasn't under threat of something.
People have some backwards thinking. Merely to be playing a game in such a setting BEGS for non-consensual PVP... otherwise you aren't really immersing yourself in the game.
The Wild West was called that for a reason. Somehow people seem to forget the ugliness that defined the time and only see the romance.
Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
It's amusing how, most likely without realizing it, you underlined the biggest problem of those games.... PvP focused or PvE focused.
A true mmoRPg, in a virtual world, should not have that kind of focus. Both aspect should be balanced. Problem is, PvP always takes over when it's allowed to. Always. Still waiting for a developer who manages to avoid that problem (beside adding PvE servers, of course).
Why? Who says it must be balanced? What game ever has things perfectly balanced?
Let's say you're playing a fantasy game, who says combat between magic and sword/board must be balanced? You could easily have a game focused on magic over any sword/board. Or a game focused on nothing but melee ability.
I say a virtual world absolutely needs to have a focus otherwise it's becomes a watered down mess that will end up being boring as fuck to everyone. LoL isn't what it is because they watered their game down by catering to both pvp and pve at the same time.
Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
It's amusing how, most likely without realizing it, you underlined the biggest problem of those games.... PvP focused or PvE focused.
A true mmoRPg, in a virtual world, should not have that kind of focus. Both aspect should be balanced. Problem is, PvP always takes over when it's allowed to. Always. Still waiting for a developer who manages to avoid that problem (beside adding PvE servers, of course).
There's no precedent for such a statement. No MMO has ever truly succeeded while both fully catering to both audiences. WoW recently seems to have started to scratch it's PVP itch more-so than normal, so maybe they can prove it works. Sounds like a pipe-dream. Because in order for a PVP focused world to work, the crafting has to fuel PVP. And we already know how much a PVEr DOESN'T want to be killed while out in the world, so I don't see them co-existing.
Even if a game took the RVR lake approach, that still is frustrating to PVE players (for some reason). In most cases, the PVP player only complains when their PVP is taken away from. Whereas, the fact that PVP even exists in a game seems to anger many PVE players. It's quite, as you would say...amusing.
For example, people complain that an upcoming PVP focused game Camelot Unchained doesn't have a PVE focus or much PVE period. Which is a strange complaint, since those same players would likely complain while doing such content that it's possible for them to die
Comments
I hate to say it because it felt a bit smarmy at the time, but Aion was like that.
When members of the NC West staff were introducing the game players kept asking about "forced pvp".
They kept saying "you get to play your way" but sort of danced around the point. Of course people could play their way but would they have to deal with "other people playing their way".
In their defense, I think they were made to dance around the issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
that was how I felt about the game. The game overall for its day was outstanding as a game in of itself. So for me it was worth playing even though I was only PvE. I just took my loses but honestly on average I always came out ahead on my skills and materials in the long run anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thank you for correcting me.
Name a single PvP centrist game please.
No game is worth getting abused over.
Despite that I would definitely consider EVE the most fair PvP MMO out there. Griefer ridden? Yes. Potential for ganks and zergs? Yes.
Potential to hop in and actually have fun and make kills against veteran players in your first couple weeks of play on fresh character? Yes.
The disparity between vet and newb is far less overwhelming in EVE than anywhere else, and that's at least why I would consider it the most fair PvP MMO.
You have not played WvW in GW2 yet I wager. It is the most Fair PvP you will find, in fact, you can, if you have the skills, beat veteran players within the end of your first day playing.
EVE,
-- need a another?
Mortal Online
-- Need another?
Dark Age of Camelot.
--Want me to keep going?
"There can be only ONE kind of game."
Time for a walk or something, your opinion smells as bad as the rest. Big world out there.
EVE = Griefing and scamming encouraged. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Mortal Online = No safezones outside cities. It is in no way "centrist" whatsoever. It's a hardcore PvP game.
Dark Age of Camelot = Never played it and so I can't comment however given you are 0/2 on the games I do know I question your judgment.
I see my bad... Auto-correct made it Centrist.. I meant to type Centric. Which, as irony would have it, Autocorrect thinks is spelled wrong...
Don't like pvp? Don't play a pvp game/server. They can't make it any more dumbed-down than that. At some point, it's YOU not THEM.
Instead of leveling up on a treadmill, the goal is to push other players out of the game.
People just get their feelings hurt lol.
I think in this case for it to be abuse I would have to give a shit. But as it turns out I didnt care about the lose, the poeple, the community nothing, just played it like a single player game and ignored everything else
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
on reflection I think the point is around those who discuss, palaver, contemplate and debate over the question of how to bring pve players into a pvp game which is a retarded conversation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For me, open-world PvP is just lazy design - can't come up with meaningful content so just let players fight each other is more and more prevalent and quite frankly, is a cop-out. Its completely possible to have a meaningful game without pvp entirely; its also possible to have a good, meaningful game with plenty of PvP features that aren't jammed down the throats of everyone - mmos that have lasted decades with these sorts of rulesets are a testament to this. Developers are missing out on a HUGE demographic here.
The PvPers say they want challenge and thrill, and that may be true for some, but the reality is most of these people want to gank, grief, inconvenience, or otherwise hassle people with less time investment in the game just to be obnoxious.
If you can't have fun without ruining someone else's time, that doesn't make you elite, or a good player, or honorable - it makes you a jerk. Dragging non-interested parties is just giving PvPers more victims -undergeared, uninterested victims - and soon enough, nobody bothers with the game anymore because its not fun to get steamrolled if you take 1 foot outside of town.
Reputation systems and such do nothing to dissuade this behavior, if people want to be jerks, the will be jerks. They make alts to be jerks, or entire new accounts to be jerks. I don't know if its just childish crap or if these are adults who get bullied in their real lives and have some sort of psychological clutch-up that makes them need to victimize people in a virtual world to fill some emptiness in their lives, but I am absolutely sick to death of game developers catering for it.
Sure, sure, some of these kids will spend money - ridiculous amounts of it - to pay to win in some games. But you know who has more money? The older gamer, the casual gamer, the gamer with a JOB and a decent income who doesn't want to come home and log on to babysit a bunch of immature pvp kiddies and deal with crap.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
What I despise is meaningless pvp with no downside for those it serves as a playground for to cause others misery. Why people think games like this have any chance of success is baffling to me. The only people who enjoy them are the griefers.
For better or worse, 95% of MMORPGs today is finding new things to kill and ways to kill them...
PS: We are posting in a 1 year old necro thread...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Aloha Mr Hand !
It was a dangerous time. If it wasn't the wildlife trying to kill you, it was the elements. If it wasn't the elements trying to kill you, it was the neighboring factions trying to annex you. Then there were thieves and other near do wells that were just trying to survive at your expense.
This so called non-consensual PVP is utter crap in a role playing game that is for all portents is set in the dark ages. You carry a sword do you not? Wear chainmail? Ride horses? Hunt and gather?
Exactly where did the notion of being completely safe come from? And what about the taxes? The local power went around annexing taxes from the poor peasants. They took food and goods if there was no currency to be had. You were conscripted into armies to fight for the king. There wasn't a place you could be that wasn't under threat of something.
People have some backwards thinking. Merely to be playing a game in such a setting BEGS for non-consensual PVP... otherwise you aren't really immersing yourself in the game.
The Wild West was called that for a reason. Somehow people seem to forget the ugliness that defined the time and only see the romance.
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Even if a game took the RVR lake approach, that still is frustrating to PVE players (for some reason). In most cases, the PVP player only complains when their PVP is taken away from. Whereas, the fact that PVP even exists in a game seems to anger many PVE players. It's quite, as you would say...amusing.
For example, people complain that an upcoming PVP focused game Camelot Unchained doesn't have a PVE focus or much PVE period. Which is a strange complaint, since those same players would likely complain while doing such content that it's possible for them to die
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.