As I see it, since anything in the store can be obtained in game, in some form or direction, it's not P2W.
I am wondering however how recycling materials will go with this game, I mean, since it has limited resources, it stands to reason that players will need to recycle stuff, like things they made practice a trade skill, or broken weapons, armor, gear.
Wondering about this, because if the recycle rate is really bad, that could be an excuse to drive up sales of resources. Still not P2W, but, gouging none the less.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
About that last part, and correct me if I am wrong; In theory, yes Kyleran can kill the king and take over the throne, BUT; In order to be officialy appointed ruler with the mechanics it involves, the other nobility would have to agree about Kyleran being new king. Chances are (like IRL) unless the king is a big idiot and a douchebag as well, the nobility wont let him or his line fall, unless they plan on taking over that position themselves.
Exactly, for example, Someone might kill the King, and no doubt expend a huge amount of resources in the process, the other nobles then might opt to kill eliminate that person while they are still recovering and take over the throne for their own.
Lots can happen in a game like that.
But that then gives rise to another question: How much does the death of a King or Queen affect the commoner?
Much in the same way the rise and fall of nations had little effect on the working class in history, so too should be the case here, regardless if you pay taxes to XxxxDrizziTxxxX, or XxxGandaFxxX makes little to impact to a crafts-person, farmer or a adventurer in game.
So that whole P2W thing that people are losing their minds over might have very little impact to the vast majority of the players, who could likely play for years, and never have to care about who's banner is flying.
But what if the kings all got together and decide to raise taxes to ridiculous levels as a group (much like OPEC)? Where will you place your house then? Wont they have an advantage if they do? What if the kings all decide to no longer pay for police/military presence and allow the bad guys to raid and pilage as long as they hand over a cut of what they take in?
There are just too many ways the system can be abused to give the kings a large advantage ingame.
They are Kings/Queens, Dukes/Duchesses, Etc.. like anyone born of noble blood, into wealth and land ownership, they will have an advantage from the start.
What is stopping them? Nothing, just like real life. There is nothing stopping nations from unifying, like United Nations, there is nothing stopping despots from being cruel and evil, again, just like real life. There is also nothing stopping people from rebelling, killing the nobles, and putting their own puppet in place.. again.. just like real life.
I am sure some people will abuse their power, I am sure there will be issues, and I am sure just like EVE, there even might be million dollar battles lost.
Can't wait to read about it.
But see, no one can abuse me in a game, unless I let them. Since I am not required to play the game if I don't like the situation, I can simply walk away from it. At any time, for any reason at all.. even simple stuff like.. If I think the models are ugly for example. (and truth be told, they do look kinda fugly compared to BDO and GW2)
No one wants to play a game to endure the same socioeconomic stratification they endure in real life. Justifying monetization schemes compromising gameplay systems by comparing it to real life is an ineffective argument.
About that last part, and correct me if I am wrong; In theory, yes Kyleran can kill the king and take over the throne, BUT; In order to be officialy appointed ruler with the mechanics it involves, the other nobility would have to agree about Kyleran being new king. Chances are (like IRL) unless the king is a big idiot and a douchebag as well, the nobility wont let him or his line fall, unless they plan on taking over that position themselves.
Exactly, for example, Someone might kill the King, and no doubt expend a huge amount of resources in the process, the other nobles then might opt to kill eliminate that person while they are still recovering and take over the throne for their own.
Lots can happen in a game like that.
But that then gives rise to another question: How much does the death of a King or Queen affect the commoner?
Much in the same way the rise and fall of nations had little effect on the working class in history, so too should be the case here, regardless if you pay taxes to XxxxDrizziTxxxX, or XxxGandaFxxX makes little to impact to a crafts-person, farmer or a adventurer in game.
So that whole P2W thing that people are losing their minds over might have very little impact to the vast majority of the players, who could likely play for years, and never have to care about who's banner is flying.
But what if the kings all got together and decide to raise taxes to ridiculous levels as a group (much like OPEC)? Where will you place your house then? Wont they have an advantage if they do? What if the kings all decide to no longer pay for police/military presence and allow the bad guys to raid and pilage as long as they hand over a cut of what they take in?
There are just too many ways the system can be abused to give the kings a large advantage ingame.
They are Kings/Queens, Dukes/Duchesses, Etc.. like anyone born of noble blood, into wealth and land ownership, they will have an advantage from the start.
What is stopping them? Nothing, just like real life. There is nothing stopping nations from unifying, like United Nations, there is nothing stopping despots from being cruel and evil, again, just like real life. There is also nothing stopping people from rebelling, killing the nobles, and putting their own puppet in place.. again.. just like real life.
I am sure some people will abuse their power, I am sure there will be issues, and I am sure just like EVE, there even might be million dollar battles lost.
Can't wait to read about it.
But see, no one can abuse me in a game, unless I let them. Since I am not required to play the game if I don't like the situation, I can simply walk away from it. At any time, for any reason at all.. even simple stuff like.. If I think the models are ugly for example. (and truth be told, they do look kinda fugly compared to BDO and GW2)
No one wants to play a game to endure the same socioeconomic stratification they endure in real life. Justifying monetization schemes compromising gameplay systems by comparing it to real life is an ineffective argument.
It's not so much ineffective, as it is disliked. Which was your first point.
And the better point to argue imho, as simulating real life seems to be in high demand among MMOs these days.
Also, I would not go so far as to say 'No One' as obviously people are buying into it, and from what I have seen, sides have already been drawn, hence some terms I have hard, like "Harbingers" and "Ivory Tower", for example.
So, it Looks like the alliances are already in place, and it seems some already have far more in game clout then others as it were. Which explains some of the negativity on this forum regarding the game as a whole.
In that regard, I would totally agree that no one would like to walk into a game knowing they will be the losing side.
And I realize that this might be of little comfort, but, only people have high political ambitions coupled with a lot of drama and impatience, in conjunction with lacking both the time and money to carry out their dreams, are really affected by this money system.
Since, as far as I know, nothing is set, and nothing from the store is beyond the scope of what can be obtained in game, thus, the game world evens things out as time goes on.
Case in point, as I understand it, I could start as an orphan pauper, build my family line, forge alliances, and while it may take me 5 years, I could very well take the crown, and only have bought the Sparks of Life to keep playing.
At the same time I could have bought $50,000 worth of store items, own a Manson and a Yacht and it still does not make me immune to be executed or usurped by those around me. Nor does it mean I will keep playing, I could get bored in a month and move on to some other game, and everything I bought (outside personal skills I wager), gets returned to the game for other players to use, thus my wealth goes back to the players, it does not go away with me.
Equally so, if I buy nodes or resources, they become part of the game words resources, they are not mine and mine alone. I will at some point need to trade them out for other forms of wealth, use them to build up the world around me, or have them taken from me. But at no point do they stay with me.
See, typically with P2W or Cash Items, the issue becomes those that buy it get to keep what they have.
They buy the amazing sword of kill everything, that is their sword forever more, even if they quit the game, that weapon goes to the digital abyss with them.
That is not the case here in CoE, that is your sword, only so long as you mange to hold on to it, and if you quit the game, someone will take that sword from you, most likely from your characters cold dead hand.
Equally so, lets use another example, say my goal has nothing to do with politics, and instead, a more earthen approach of being a fabled brewer for example. Now, there are other people that bought the crafting pack, and they would start the game with their skills far more along then mine. But that in no way means that through play and persistence, I can't surpass them, it just means they got a head start on me.
Which, is why it is not really P2W, as it is more Buying Time.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If you have to try this hard to explain how something isn't one thing, it probably is.
You probably should just win the thread.
Like I said, I will simply cut and paste the store items and the packages (from KS or new) once they are available into a poll with 2 simple responses: A) Pay for Advantage B ) Pay to Build and Manage
No text either way to try and sway the reader. Then we will see if it's just a "few naysayers"...
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why not say P2W, if that is what you think it is, why sugar coat it?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If you have to try this hard to explain how something isn't one thing, it probably is.
You probably should just win the thread.
Like I said, I will simply cut and paste the store items and the packages (from KS or new) once they are available into a poll with 2 simple responses: A) Pay for Advantage Pay to Build and Manage
No text either way to try and sway the reader. Then we will see if it's just a "few naysayers"...
Wherein the game would be assumed p2w if someone didn't know anything about the differences in CoE compared to traditional MMOs. In fact, upon first researching the game and taking a look at the shop I thought the same. It wasn't until I did my research that I was able to see the logic of the intended structure.
Here are some of the things you can spend real money to buy:
No wipe 3 month Headstart in a PvP game with looting based around territory control and conquest. Buy yourself land Buy yourself a title all the way up to King and other players will be your subjects Buy resources Buy mounts and transportation Buy siege weapons Buy things like technology enabling buildings Buy tokens to make your town bigger/stronger: The more tokens the Mayor receives, the greater the settlement becomes. Each token increases population and, at certain thresholds, tokens will create special Settlement Upgrades that your Mayor can use to increase the city limits, add additional buildings, and more! Buy tokens to make your Guild bigger/stronger: The more tokens your leader receives, the greater the organization becomes. Each token increases research points or resources, depending on the organization type. At certain thresholds, tokens will create special Organization Upgrades that your Leader can use to create guild halls, get additional resources. Buy tokens for $10 each to "vote" for the last Kingslot on the East server since nobody else wanted to pay the $10,000 list price
Ok., I give.
I looked at this, As I understand it, all this can be done in with in-game means. So this store only provides a head start to those that spent money.
Sure, no doubt that could feel oppressive at the beginning of the game, even worse if alliances were formed already and you were on the wrong side. That would really suck.
But MMO's are not all about the first 3 months, or even the first year, If that is your time line to rule the world and be the best, then this was never the game for you. My I suggest GW2, that has a very fast path to end game, max level, and very little gear grind.
But CoE, with the whole Sparks of Life, system implies that this game is designed to played over course of many years.
So if you were not willing to Play 2 Win either.. sorry.. This is just not the game for you.
No shame in that, not every game can be for everyone.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Why not say P2W, if that is what you think it is, why sugar coat it?
Because that term has different meanings to different people... as well demonstrated here. Pay for Advantage is unambiguous and removes all the bickering about the meaning of words.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why not say P2W, if that is what you think it is, why sugar coat it?
Because that term has different meanings to different people... as well demonstrated here. Pay for Advantage is unambiguous and removes all the bickering about the meaning of words.
Why not just say.
"Is this Fair?"
Yes
No.
Because that's the real issue. That was why people didn't like P2W to start with, it was unfair.
Trying to play word games is stupid, be upfront in your means and motives and what you are looking for.
If you think its bullshit, call it such and be done with it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
@Ungood You appear to be all over the place with your logic.
How so?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
I am wondering however how recycling materials will go with this game, I mean, since it has limited resources, it stands to reason that players will need to recycle stuff, like things they made practice a trade skill, or broken weapons, armor, gear.
Wondering about this, because if the recycle rate is really bad, that could be an excuse to drive up sales of resources. Still not P2W, but, gouging none the less.
And the better point to argue imho, as simulating real life seems to be in high demand among MMOs these days.
Also, I would not go so far as to say 'No One' as obviously people are buying into it, and from what I have seen, sides have already been drawn, hence some terms I have hard, like "Harbingers" and "Ivory Tower", for example.
So, it Looks like the alliances are already in place, and it seems some already have far more in game clout then others as it were. Which explains some of the negativity on this forum regarding the game as a whole.
In that regard, I would totally agree that no one would like to walk into a game knowing they will be the losing side.
And I realize that this might be of little comfort, but, only people have high political ambitions coupled with a lot of drama and impatience, in conjunction with lacking both the time and money to carry out their dreams, are really affected by this money system.
Since, as far as I know, nothing is set, and nothing from the store is beyond the scope of what can be obtained in game, thus, the game world evens things out as time goes on.
Case in point, as I understand it, I could start as an orphan pauper, build my family line, forge alliances, and while it may take me 5 years, I could very well take the crown, and only have bought the Sparks of Life to keep playing.
At the same time I could have bought $50,000 worth of store items, own a Manson and a Yacht and it still does not make me immune to be executed or usurped by those around me. Nor does it mean I will keep playing, I could get bored in a month and move on to some other game, and everything I bought (outside personal skills I wager), gets returned to the game for other players to use, thus my wealth goes back to the players, it does not go away with me.
Equally so, if I buy nodes or resources, they become part of the game words resources, they are not mine and mine alone. I will at some point need to trade them out for other forms of wealth, use them to build up the world around me, or have them taken from me. But at no point do they stay with me.
See, typically with P2W or Cash Items, the issue becomes those that buy it get to keep what they have.
They buy the amazing sword of kill everything, that is their sword forever more, even if they quit the game, that weapon goes to the digital abyss with them.
That is not the case here in CoE, that is your sword, only so long as you mange to hold on to it, and if you quit the game, someone will take that sword from you, most likely from your characters cold dead hand.
Equally so, lets use another example, say my goal has nothing to do with politics, and instead, a more earthen approach of being a fabled brewer for example. Now, there are other people that bought the crafting pack, and they would start the game with their skills far more along then mine. But that in no way means that through play and persistence, I can't surpass them, it just means they got a head start on me.
Which, is why it is not really P2W, as it is more Buying Time.
Like I said, I will simply cut and paste the store items and the packages (from KS or new) once they are available into a poll with 2 simple responses:
A) Pay for Advantage
B ) Pay to Build and Manage
No text either way to try and sway the reader. Then we will see if it's just a "few naysayers"...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Which was the intended point of the OP.
I looked at this, As I understand it, all this can be done in with in-game means. So this store only provides a head start to those that spent money.
Sure, no doubt that could feel oppressive at the beginning of the game, even worse if alliances were formed already and you were on the wrong side. That would really suck.
But MMO's are not all about the first 3 months, or even the first year, If that is your time line to rule the world and be the best, then this was never the game for you. My I suggest GW2, that has a very fast path to end game, max level, and very little gear grind.
But CoE, with the whole Sparks of Life, system implies that this game is designed to played over course of many years.
So if you were not willing to Play 2 Win either.. sorry.. This is just not the game for you.
No shame in that, not every game can be for everyone.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Is this Fair?"
Because that's the real issue. That was why people didn't like P2W to start with, it was unfair.
Trying to play word games is stupid, be upfront in your means and motives and what you are looking for.
If you think its bullshit, call it such and be done with it.
This poll is simply going to be: Pay for Advantage or Pay to Build and Manage
With a list of what was and is for sale.
No text leading one way or another. Nice and simple.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018