Shroud of the Avatar - Nearing Launch, A Lot Has Improved - MMORPG.com

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Shroud of the Avatar - Nearing Launch, A Lot Has Improved - MMORPG.com

Today, Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues, looks to continue the epic-in-scope tradition of Ultima VII, but the world has changed and many RPGs do the things Ultima once laid claim to. So now, just weeks from launch, how is Portalarium’s MMO/single-player RPG shaping up?

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Sovrath

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

BillMurphy

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Yeah, that's what I expect for a lot of folks who like the "old ways".

Elvoc

The only real way I can see this game doing any good is if the single player RPG experience works, I've been with it since it first came out and lots of the community has already left and just said they will wait for completion and offline play..

Sovrath

BillMurphy said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Yeah, that's what I expect for a lot of folks who like the "old ways".

My spirit animal is a grumpy old man ...

bobbymcswanson

BillMurphy said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Yeah, that's what I expect for a lot of folks who like the "old ways".

In my day a mouse had to circle the screen 5 times before a character could equip an item.....damn kids and yer *clickity click clicking*

MadFrenchie

bobbymcswanson said:

BillMurphy said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Yeah, that's what I expect for a lot of folks who like the "old ways".

In my day a mouse had to circle the screen 5 times before a character could equip an item.....damn kids and yer *clickity click clicking*

Pfft, back in my day, "graphics" were called "imagination, a few stick swords, and a tree dragon."

Dagnabbit!

danwest58

Sovrath said:

BillMurphy said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Yeah, that's what I expect for a lot of folks who like the "old ways".

My spirit animal is a grumpy old man ...

Dude that is so me.      

Sovrath

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

What exactly is so satisfying about the paper doll experience? Nothing, except a lifeline to nostalgic feels. It's just horrible design. You're not enjoying the experience as it is now. You're enjoying that the experience triggers a memory of a good gameplay experience. If the design doesn't trigger that nostalgic boost for a person, the paper doll isn't good at all. That's why it's bad design. If it actually triggered a positive reaction because of the way it works, great. It's not doing that because it's messy kludge of a system.

What can I tell you it seems perfectly natural to me. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. It just makes sense.

Xiaoki

Sovrath said:

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

What exactly is so satisfying about the paper doll experience? Nothing, except a lifeline to nostalgic feels. It's just horrible design. You're not enjoying the experience as it is now. You're enjoying that the experience triggers a memory of a good gameplay experience. If the design doesn't trigger that nostalgic boost for a person, the paper doll isn't good at all. That's why it's bad design. If it actually triggered a positive reaction because of the way it works, great. It's not doing that because it's messy kludge of a system.

What can I tell you it seems perfectly natural to me. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. It just makes sense.

Double clicking or right clicking items makes even more sense.

Why does it feel "natural"? Because thats how it was done in EQ1?

Also, MMOs that I have played that use right click to equip include drag and drop to equip as well. So, why purposely exclude right clicking if not to just evoke the classic method?

berlight

Is this full loot pk? :O

Sovrath

Xiaoki said:

Sovrath said:

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

What exactly is so satisfying about the paper doll experience? Nothing, except a lifeline to nostalgic feels. It's just horrible design. You're not enjoying the experience as it is now. You're enjoying that the experience triggers a memory of a good gameplay experience. If the design doesn't trigger that nostalgic boost for a person, the paper doll isn't good at all. That's why it's bad design. If it actually triggered a positive reaction because of the way it works, great. It's not doing that because it's messy kludge of a system.

What can I tell you it seems perfectly natural to me. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. It just makes sense.

Double clicking or right clicking items makes even more sense.



Why does it feel "natural"? Because thats how it was done in EQ1?



Also, MMOs that I have played that use right click to equip include drag and drop to equip as well. So, why purposely exclude right clicking if not to just evoke the classic method?

It feels natural because it feels natural. I don't know how it was really done in EQ 1. I do know that it was what was done in Morrowind. What about Baldur's gate? I think it was drag and drop there as well.

These are the early games that not only informed my game play habits but also helped establish my game preferences.

It is what it is. If you want to argue the point have at it but that's like arguing with someone over their favorite color being blue.

edit: I should add, actually grabbing an item and moving it, for me, makes it feel more like an item and less like a stat in a list. It gives it a sense of visual weight and not just "an icon".

Vrika

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Let's call it a terrible minigame, then.

If the game forces you to do extra steps that's either a gameplay to limit how fast and successfully you're able to perform and action or it's an issue. And SotA's decision to add this kind of gameplay to equipping items is a truly terrible minigame.

Sovrath

Vrika said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Let's call it a terrible minigame, then.

If the game forces you to do extra steps that's either a gameplay to limit how fast and successfully you're able to perform and action or it's an issue. And SotA's decision to add this kind of gameplay to equipping items is a truly terrible minigame.

Like i said above, there is a certain sensory perception to "grabbing an icon and moving it".

It could be a way to limit how fast one moves an item (Darkfall does this) or it could be, like I said, a way to make the experience more immersive.

Either way, I have no problem with it. I don't think it's terrible at all. I do think it's different from how current games mostly do things. But I'm never a believer that different is necessarily bad if it accomplishes something, well "different".

Kyleran

Sovrath said:

Vrika said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

Let's call it a terrible minigame, then.

If the game forces you to do extra steps that's either a gameplay to limit how fast and successfully you're able to perform and action or it's an issue. And SotA's decision to add this kind of gameplay to equipping items is a truly terrible minigame.

Like i said above, there is a certain sensory perception to "grabbing an icon and moving it".

It could be a way to limit how fast one moves an item (Darkfall does this) or it could be, like I said, a way to make the experience more immersive.

Either way, I have no problem with it. I don't think it's terrible at all. I do think it's different from how current games mostly do things. But I'm never a believer that different is necessarily bad if it accomplishes something, well "different".

Unlike many I don't need every in game action to be as efficient as possible at all times,  but I realize some can't abide when it isnt. 

We'r all wired very differently.

Hefaistos

Man, i know one thing...Steam Reviews with details like this are hard to find. Even the caps lock message...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/326160/Shroud_of_the_Avatar_Forsaken_Virtues/

sordros

Do you really change equipment that often for that to matter this much? If so maybe there are other issues then just how an item is equipped...

Is this another fast level game where you are getting new weapons/armor every 5 minutes and a level every 10? Basically a game with an appetizer and dessert but no meat?

bgzgamer

sordros said:

Do you really change equipment that often for that to matter this much? If so maybe there are other issues then just how an item is equipped...



Is this another fast level game where you are getting new weapons/armor every 5 minutes and a level every 10? Basically a game with an appetizer and dessert but no meat?

To answer that...

No.. you dont really change equipment that much...

Additionally, you can save "sets" of skills/decks/gear to go along with it all and swap almost instantly when you want to change gear.

As for upgrading, gear upgrades is actually pretty rare, imo, compared to other mmo's. It actually takes a considerable amount of effort to go from a rusty short sword to a bronze short sword.. and that I actually like.

Sovrath

Torval said:

This kind of went off on a preference tangent. Liking the paper doll is cool and totally valid. I'm not trying to say that's wrong. My point with the paper doll is that how they implemented it is clunky. Every system is a puzzle like this.

The player is tasked with figuring out how to interact with the game at every turn because they do everything in the most unfamiliar and unobvious way possible adding extra steps and complexity for the sake of complexity which a lot like a long, or run on, sentence that should broken up into smaller pieces to make more sense to the reading audience which is obviously lost at this point and is left scratching their heads at what the point was and then must move onto the next small task which once again reads like a monumental run-on sentence.

That's what it feels like trying to do most everything in the game. This game is a huge run-on sentence with some great stuff to say packed in hard to find spots.

Well, clearly THAT'S not good!

It's sort of like how the original Final Fantasy 14 implemented their UI. Total mess.

rojoArcueid

I don't see the problem in dragging an item to a paper doll to equip it. If the function itself is clunky (poorly implemented) then sure that is a big issue, but the act of dragging the item to equip it is not the issue here, just the bad implementation. Right clicking is faster of course, but no big deal if the dragging is smooth and polished enough.

People drag dozens of abilities to the hotbar in every mmo and nobody complains, and then do it again every time a major class change takes place.

My thoughts. I haven't played the game so i don't know how polished it is.

DavodtheTutt

I tried the game early on and never could understand why some people feel they have to be so venomous in criticizing it. There were a couple things I asked for help with, but the basic gameplay tasks and actions seemed natural enough. Maybe some people are just spoiled and/or mentally lazy. Anyway, seems like adding shortcuts wouldn't be asking too much of an upgrade/update.

retiredmj

Xiaoki said:

Sovrath said:

Torval said:

Sovrath said:

hmmm I'd like to offer that having to drag items to the paper doll is not an "issue".

What exactly is so satisfying about the paper doll experience? Nothing, except a lifeline to nostalgic feels. It's just horrible design. You're not enjoying the experience as it is now. You're enjoying that the experience triggers a memory of a good gameplay experience. If the design doesn't trigger that nostalgic boost for a person, the paper doll isn't good at all. That's why it's bad design. If it actually triggered a positive reaction because of the way it works, great. It's not doing that because it's messy kludge of a system.

What can I tell you it seems perfectly natural to me. Has nothing to do with nostalgia. It just makes sense.

Double clicking or right clicking items makes even more sense.



Why does it feel "natural"? Because thats how it was done in EQ1?



Also, MMOs that I have played that use right click to equip include drag and drop to equip as well. So, why purposely exclude right clicking if not to just evoke the classic method?

Why's it feel natural? Because dragging it from your bag to the correct slot is simulating dressing your character. Double clicking or Right clicking is what doesn't make sense or "feel natural". Sure it's convenient but natural? No

MightyUnclean

That's a lot of discussion over a paper doll!!

Thebeasttt

I predict a slightly better version of Vanguard launch. I only say better because a game with zero hype sets you up for minimal disappointment.

daltanious

"traditional WoW/EQ styled 3rd-person WASD controls"? Since start I played them with MOUSE, no WASD which I truly hate (not sure how I ever played before). Nowadays I simply do not play any more games that enforce WASD and consequently usually use 2 button mashing spells for all with mouse buttons. What I want is full set of keys where left arm rest and multibutton (best so far of all times G700) mouse in right hand.

Guess I will try Avatar in future, but problem is I'm usually sucked in by Wow and FF14 alternately for nearly whole year. Once there was only one great game for me, Wow. Now Wow and FF14. Years ago on top list were also Swtor, Gw2, Rift, ... where every expansion after original release has worsened game for good. Now barely think of them, last disappointment was Gw2 with boring as hell content.

Mitara

For me, the biggest problem with the game is the map loading time. It totally smashes any chance of immersiveness.