Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
Yet they're still becoming more and more prevalent, despite you and Slap's (and mine, for that matter) resistance.
Loot box monetization is built to avoid the need for popularity. That's why it's so focused on snagging whales.
Im not resistant or in favor of them. I lean more to let each person decide for themselves. It's not my business to tell another person how he should spend his money on a hobby. I personally don't see an issue with loot boxes especially in games that give you currency for subbing or playing. I wouldn't lose sleep if they got rid of them and I wouldn't lose sleep if they continue to become more popular. They just don't impact me at all.
Very fair attitude but you're not looking hard enough if you can't see how they affect everyone. The best designed cosmetic stuff for the game these days is only available that way. As a matter of fact each loot box "season" has that best 1 or 2 items that you can't even get with that 3rd currency, lootbox gems, that you get by trading in dupes and junk.
If it wasn't for the lootboxes all of those things would be either earned in game or at the very least sold in the basic cash shop for crowns.
Of course no one needs those things but that line of thinking inevitably leads to you don't need anything at all - even the game.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
hmmm, I think that's not wholly correct.
The only time I've ever seen someone say a subscription is "pay to win" is when it is offered in an otherwise buy to play/Free to play game and where it offers incentives over those who don't subscribe.
The idea if one pays money one gets benefits over those who don't which is the same as someone buying a 10k perk. Whether or not there is "win" is another thing but it's usually some sort of perk or advantage or convenience. Then again a subscription is just that "paying a subscription to have access to the game otherwise one doesn't". So everyone is on an even playing field there.
I don't think anyone would say that a game that is solely subscription based is "pay to win" when compared to selling large priced perks.
I think trying to vilify or sanctify one type of monetization misses the point. Any way can and has been abused. Subs fell out of favor for several reasons not the least of which was the rampant milking of customer's monthly bill with no content or thing to show for it.
I don't disagree with that at all. However, the choice is much simpler with sub, and can be directly correlated with popularity. Lootbox monetization cannot because it intentionally aims for a small slice of the population for the majority of its revenue.
The ideal would've been companies realizing that subs require consistent content updates. Instead, they realized they could make as much or more with much less work by reskinning and selling piecemeal. It hasn't resulted in any more concentration in delivering quality content updates than subs did originally, unfortunately.
plot twist They are hiring monetization designer to implement F2P
The thought had occurred to me before this ad. But then I wondered just what they would stand to gain by dropping what is essentially a token entry fee that can be bought for $9.99 a lot of the time since they already act in many ways like the game is F2P.
It's no accident that a lot of other new games that are essentially F2P have started adding an entry fee, This faux-B2P is basically the new form of F2P. They certainly feel that way once you're in and playing them.
I suppose it's possible that they might get even more cash shop customers by dropping the entry fee but that's why I'm not applying for the job - I just don't know
Yeah, the only thing i can think of is - assuming F2P is in the works - they would do what GW2 did and drop the box price to attract more people. ESO would still have a subscription with all content unlocked, and then a new F2P where you still have to purchase expansion/dlcs.
I hope that doesn't happen, i wish GW2 never did it. But oh well, with ESO my post is just a fun plot twist. At this point anything can happen.
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
Yet they're still becoming more and more prevalent, despite you and Slap's (and mine, for that matter) resistance.
Loot box monetization is built to avoid the need for popularity. That's why it's so focused on snagging whales.
Im not resistant or in favor of them. I lean more to let each person decide for themselves. It's not my business to tell another person how he should spend his money on a hobby. I personally don't see an issue with loot boxes especially in games that give you currency for subbing or playing. I wouldn't lose sleep if they got rid of them and I wouldn't lose sleep if they continue to become more popular. They just don't impact me at all.
Very fair attitude but you're not looking hard enough if you can't see how they affect everyone. The best designed cosmetic stuff for the game these days is only available that way. As a matter of fact each loot box "season" has that best 1 or 2 items that you can't even get with that 3rd currency, lootbox gems, that you get by trading in dupes and junk.
If it wasn't for the lootboxes all of those things would be either earned in game or at the very least sold in the basic cash shop for crowns.
Of course no one needs those things but that line of thinking inevitably leads to you don't need anything at all - even the game.
I can understand where you are coming from. I'm not huge into cosmetics I do like to collect mounts in most mmos I play but don't in ESO but it doesn't impact my game experience. I know swtor gets a lot of hate but I think their design is the best approach. I only buy cartel packs when I've saved up enough cartel coins. Everything can be bought in the GTN so it's available for everyone and if there is a mount or outift I really want I get it off the GTN.
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
hmmm, I think that's not wholly correct.
The only time I've ever seen someone say a subscription is "pay to win" is when it is offered in an otherwise buy to play/Free to play game and where it offers incentives over those who don't subscribe.
The idea if one pays money one gets benefits over those who don't which is the same as someone buying a 10k perk. Whether or not there is "win" is another thing but it's usually some sort of perk or advantage or convenience. Then again a subscription is just that "paying a subscription to have access to the game otherwise one doesn't". So everyone is on an even playing field there.
I don't think anyone would say that a game that is solely subscription based is "pay to win" when compared to selling large priced perks.
I think trying to vilify or sanctify one type of monetization misses the point. Any way can and has been abused. Subs fell out of favor for several reasons not the least of which was the rampant milking of customer's monthly bill with no content or thing to show for it.
I don't disagree with that at all. However, the choice is much simpler with sub, and can be directly correlated with popularity. Lootbox monetization cannot because it intentionally aims for a small slice of the population for the majority of its revenue.
The ideal would've been companies realizing that subs require consistent content updates. Instead, they realized they could make as much or more with much less work by reskinning and selling piecemeal. It hasn't resulted in any more concentration in delivering quality content updates than subs did originally, unfortunately.
I don't think the sub is simpler at all. There are tons of ways to artificially drag out content. Lootcrates could be presented in a user friendly fashion. It may be more easy to exploit lootcrates egregiously but the same thing can and did happen with subs.
People bitched about subs because studios and publishers were abusing the revenue system to their great advantage. They have taken progressively lower roads since then, including how subs are structured and implemented now.
Removing lootcrates won't stem the tide of bad monetization. It will move the goalposts because lootcrates aren't the cause of the bad monetization. That's what I've been saying for a long time now.
Remove loot crates and it will be fine with me because they actively target the stuff I play games for, just like cash shops. I cheered when mandatory milking subs mostly died, but what I learned was the bad intentions of studios found a new home with aggressive cash shop and variable rewards containers (lootcrates).
This is oversimplified to illustrate a point: Games are worth an amount. For our purposes say a standard AAA box fee title is worth $100 at release. MMO and games as a service studios understand that but want more so they chop up a game and sell it back in pieces over time for a lot more money. It's the same complaint as Day 1 DLC only taken to the absurd extreme.
While true, it's simpler in that the choice is binary and complete: either you desire access to the game and pay one fee for the month, or you choose not to.
Loot box monetization doesn't care about keeping you around. If they can get a whale to plop down the cash right at the beginning to stock up on pots, mounts, whatever while trying the game, the devs have less interest in retention because he's blown his wad already for many times what they would've made from him had they merely offered game access for the sub. Additional gameplay content becomes less important than additional item store content. That's why loot box monetization is a poor direct indicator of popularity. Does it mean the game is great, or that they have a really great marketing shtick to attract the whales? Without data directly from the company, you can only make a (semi)educated guess. Not so with subs, because it's only benefit way back when was access to the game servers to play.
Will devs and publishers try something else? Sure. I don't doubt it. But that doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not this new trend should be merely accepted or resisted.
I was on my way to this site earlier and after typing in 'MMORPG' I got a bunch of google ads for MMORPG's AND casinos. I have never searched a casino so why does typing in 'MMORPG' show me ads for casinos side by side with MMORPG's?
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
hmmm, I think that's not wholly correct.
The only time I've ever seen someone say a subscription is "pay to win" is when it is offered in an otherwise buy to play/Free to play game and where it offers incentives over those who don't subscribe.
The idea if one pays money one gets benefits over those who don't which is the same as someone buying a 10k perk. Whether or not there is "win" is another thing but it's usually some sort of perk or advantage or convenience. Then again a subscription is just that "paying a subscription to have access to the game otherwise one doesn't". So everyone is on an even playing field there.
I don't think anyone would say that a game that is solely subscription based is "pay to win" when compared to selling large priced perks.
Easy case in point is Crowfall where people point to the sub and say it's P2W.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I was on my way to this site earlier and after typing in 'MMORPG' I got a bunch of google ads for MMORPG's AND casinos. I have never searched a casino so why does typing in 'MMORPG' show me ads for casinos side by side with MMORPG's?
I think you're joking right?
Otherwise, maybe that has more to do with other things you look at or the search engine you use.
Just did tried it to see what it brought up and with google it was just "mmorpg's" as was bing (which I hate and never use).
Same with Yahoo, dogpile, and aol.
Baidu the same thing "as far as I could tell".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
I'm a person with an opinion. At no point did I say you shouldn't be allowed to spend your money in a dumb manner or a smart manner, or even burn it. But to think that it doesn't affect EVERYONE is just silly. It DOES. So yeah, I will voice my OPINION that supporting increasingly idiotic forms of monetization is not good.
Thats fair I guess. I'm am sure there are things you spend your money on that some people would consider dumb and impacts them negatively. Should stop doing it?
Im in the let the individual decide for themselves. I also feel bringing the government into this will do far more damage to video games as a whole.
Again you infer things other than what I said. In no way, shape or form did I say we should bring the government into it. The only role the government should play is making sure kids aren't subject to gambling.
If you would stop miss stating what I post this will go much easier.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
Yet they're still becoming more and more prevalent, despite you and Slap's (and mine, for that matter) resistance.
Loot box monetization is built to avoid the need for popularity. That's why it's so focused on snagging whales.
Im not resistant or in favor of them. I lean more to let each person decide for themselves. It's not my business to tell another person how he should spend his money on a hobby. I personally don't see an issue with loot boxes especially in games that give you currency for subbing or playing. I wouldn't lose sleep if they got rid of them and I wouldn't lose sleep if they continue to become more popular. They just don't impact me at all.
Of course they impact you. Games have changed around the new monitization. They are built around it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Easy case in point is Crowfall where people point to the sub and say it's P2W.
is it indeed a "sub"?
Again, a subscription to a game would mean that we all would have to pay in order to gain access to the game.
OR ...
Is it a buy to play/free to play (whatever) game and there is a monthly fee that grants xp bonuses, buffs, better x, y and z hat gives players a leg up.
Something like Black Deserts packswhatevertheyarecalledIcan'tremember.
that's not really a subscription to play the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Easy case in point is Crowfall where people point to the sub and say it's P2W.
is it indeed a "sub"?
Again, a subscription to a game would mean that we all would have to pay in order to gain access to the game.
OR ...
Is it a buy to play/free to play (whatever) game and there is a monthly fee that grants xp bonuses, buffs, better x, y and z hat gives players a leg up.
Something like Black Deserts packswhatevertheyarecalledIcan'tremember.
that's not really a subscription to play the game.
To me it is. The sub is optional. From my view its no different than a game that says it is sub based with an unlimited trial that has restrictions.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Easy case in point is Crowfall where people point to the sub and say it's P2W.
is it indeed a "sub"?
Again, a subscription to a game would mean that we all would have to pay in order to gain access to the game.
OR ...
Is it a buy to play/free to play (whatever) game and there is a monthly fee that grants xp bonuses, buffs, better x, y and z hat gives players a leg up.
Something like Black Deserts packswhatevertheyarecalledIcan'tremember.
that's not really a subscription to play the game.
To me it is. The sub is optional. From my view its no different than a game that says it is sub based with an unlimited trial that has restrictions.
yeah, I don't look at it that way.
As subscription to the game is a subscription to play the game. That's why I found your initial statement confusing. Why would a "sub" be pay to win if everyone is paying it.
So people aren't really considering subs pay to win. What they are considering pay to win is a recurring payment that gives advantages.
Now, if you wanted to argue that it was a subscription for a convenience package then I could agree.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Easy case in point is Crowfall where people point to the sub and say it's P2W.
is it indeed a "sub"?
Again, a subscription to a game would mean that we all would have to pay in order to gain access to the game.
OR ...
Is it a buy to play/free to play (whatever) game and there is a monthly fee that grants xp bonuses, buffs, better x, y and z hat gives players a leg up.
Something like Black Deserts packswhatevertheyarecalledIcan'tremember.
that's not really a subscription to play the game.
To me it is. The sub is optional. From my view its no different than a game that says it is sub based with an unlimited trial that has restrictions.
yeah, I don't look at it that way.
As subscription to the game is a subscription to play the game. That's why I found your initial statement confusing. Why would a "sub" be pay to win if everyone is paying it.
So people aren't really considering subs pay to win. What they are considering pay to win is a recurring payment that gives advantages.
Now, if you wanted to argue that it was a subscription for a convenience package then I could agree.
But again this is exactly my point. Originally games were subscription. Many had free trials. Some had unlimited trials, but with restrictions. not a single person would have thought to call it P2W. The game was designed to be played with a sub and the free part was to give you a taste and hope that you would sub.
The EXACT same setup today would be considered F2P with optional sub and thus people call it P2W.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
Crank out a generic game and find the best way to maximize profits.
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
The statement you're over-reacting to was directed at the companies to which they are a prospective customer and has every right to voice their opinion. I'm not sure if you just made an assumption and didn't read it all the way through. Or you simply miss-placed the context onto the wrong party. Either way, the very act of confronting someone and telling them they have no right to practice their freedom of speech (which all "free" countries provide that right) just makes you a hypocrite, so stop.
Is this not a terrible trend we are seeing from game developers more and more,so worried about maximizing profits than game designs. Let's not think about better game designs,better done systems,let's just figure out how we can milk the cash cow the way it stands be it good or bad.
I'm actually ok if they take your money!
That's actually what has gotten us into this mess. People cling to the idea that it's their money so don't you dare complain about "their" game. They never grasp the concept that "their" game doesn't live in a bubble and every stupid idea that someone enables in "their" game eventually spreads to all the other games.
Somehow in the last few years we have come to a world where a subscription is considered P2W but it's acceptable to sell $10,000 game perks. A Box fee is now frowned upon as it's a barrier to entry... better to lure them in with fake FREE 2 PLAY promises and then hook them on loot boxes.
It's crazy...
I suspect you overlooked the very subtle, but "tongue in cheek" humor of @StoneRoses reply.
I'm OK if they take Wiz's money too.
Yours or mine, not so much.
No that was actually my point. I DO care if they use stupid monetization schemes to take Wiz’s money because it incentivized other games to follow along. I can’t stop people from doing dumb things with their money and enabling increasingly ridiculous monetization concepts but I can at least voice my displeasure!
Who are you to determine how someone else spends their money on a hobby as "dumb"? I am glad we haven't got to a point where people like you are able to tell people what is right or wrong on how they spend their own money on a hobby.
I don't spend real money on loot boxes but it's not my business to tell others how to spend their own money on a hobby and it sure isn't your business either .
The statement you're over-reacting to was directed at the companies to which they are a prospective customer and has every right to voice their opinion. I'm not sure if you just made an assumption and didn't read it all the way through. Or you simply miss-placed the context onto the wrong party. Either way, the very act of confronting someone and telling them they have no right to practice their freedom of speech (which all "free" countries provide that right) just makes you a hypocrite, so stop.
The person I replied to replied on my comment and it had nothing to do with whatever you are rambling on about. I didn't confront him stop over reacting I stated he doesn't get to choose what is dumb for people when they spend their money.
It may be free speech for you to say hey I think what you bought is dumb and I'm just as free to tell you to piss off it's none of your business how i spend my money on my hobby. It's not being a hypocrite. If anyone needs to stop it would be you . the Slap guy was very capable of responding to my comment he doesn't need you making a mess of what he said.
I don't think that the game developers appreciate just how dangerous their position is becoming. The biggest complaint in the general public about MMOs and video games in the past was that some users could sink too much time into them. This has now morphed into an industry dedicated to gambling tactics and nickle and diming methods.
The game industry is rapidly approaching the point where they are associated with online casinos. Parents will start demanding action and, since libertarians are a tiny minority of the public, the hammer is going to come down on the industry hard. And the damage will be long term - once you develop a reputation for sleaze, and for trying to trick people into spending large sums of money, that reputation sticks.
For someone like me, I'll cheerfully pay a box price or a subscription. Not one dime on a gambling box, including supporting the maker in any way (so, sorry ESO and LOTRO, no longer playing.) And, yes, this garbage affects me - because it distorts game design completely and ruins experiences that I used to enjoy. Beyond a certain point I'll start writing off genres completely, and I'm not alone.
Well, I knew the cash shop was going to go down the crapper when they added the loot boxes and I have watched it get progressively worse as they are spending more development time filling the cash shop than filling the game with content. Also the prices for things are getting insane $150 for a house? Yeah I think it is time to say goodbye to TESO.
@Frozenyearround You are well within your rights to spend your money how you see fit. I think they are trying to make you aware that if we continue to support loot boxes and crash shops we are just enabling the system to proliferate.
The problem is that we, us here on the forum, make up a very small portion of the gaming market. We are in a generation now where children are buying from the cash shops at an alarming rate. Take Fortnite for example... I know kids that have racked up some large bills on parents credit card without them knowing.
For someone like me, I'll cheerfully pay a box price or a subscription. Not one dime on a gambling box, including supporting the maker in any way (so, sorry ESO and LOTRO, no longer playing.) And, yes, this garbage affects me - because it distorts game design completely and ruins experiences that I used to enjoy. Beyond a certain point I'll start writing off genres completely, and I'm not alone.
I really felt the need to comment on this.
I am with you in this, I cannot tell you how many times I have debated giving up gaming entirely. We are now getting adds place directly on consoles (Nintendo Switch). We have Dev Studios that are putting all of these items behind the cash shop and kids are eating it up.
I miss the days of paying for a year of my game and just enjoying it knowing that I can get everything in game by PLAYING not paying.
soooo ? whats new .... the "new DLC Content" is more of the same .... so they could hire someone who could change the content for the better one .... OR ! lets hire someone who can get MUCH more MONEY out from the same SHcontent.... --> Good idea, because they already use a franchise name for an online game which have nothing in common or similarity .... heck ! lets even make the dumbest fight system ever ! Sommerset .... yeah right
TESO´s main purpose is ..... to show the very bottom of the MMORPG genre .... so give it a try and everything after that can only and will only be better ... i learned to love myself again, after i learned that its actually cool to hate this abomi äähh TESO ....
They wouldn't need a position like this if the majority of people that play f2p/b2p games weren't so stingy with their cash. People love free shit, but seriously think about opening your wallet once in awhile to support the game if you play it a lot.
Comments
If it wasn't for the lootboxes all of those things would be either earned in game or at the very least sold in the basic cash shop for crowns.
Of course no one needs those things but that line of thinking inevitably leads to you don't need anything at all - even the game.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The ideal would've been companies realizing that subs require consistent content updates. Instead, they realized they could make as much or more with much less work by reskinning and selling piecemeal. It hasn't resulted in any more concentration in delivering quality content updates than subs did originally, unfortunately.
Loot box monetization doesn't care about keeping you around. If they can get a whale to plop down the cash right at the beginning to stock up on pots, mounts, whatever while trying the game, the devs have less interest in retention because he's blown his wad already for many times what they would've made from him had they merely offered game access for the sub. Additional gameplay content becomes less important than additional item store content. That's why loot box monetization is a poor direct indicator of popularity. Does it mean the game is great, or that they have a really great marketing shtick to attract the whales? Without data directly from the company, you can only make a (semi)educated guess. Not so with subs, because it's only benefit way back when was access to the game servers to play.
Will devs and publishers try something else? Sure. I don't doubt it. But that doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not this new trend should be merely accepted or resisted.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you would stop miss stating what I post this will go much easier.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Originally games were subscription. Many had free trials.
Some had unlimited trials, but with restrictions. not a single person would have thought to call it P2W. The game was designed to be played with a sub and the free part was to give you a taste and hope that you would sub.
The EXACT same setup today would be considered F2P with optional sub and thus people call it P2W.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The statement you're over-reacting to was directed at the companies to which they are a prospective customer and has every right to voice their opinion. I'm not sure if you just made an assumption and didn't read it all the way through. Or you simply miss-placed the context onto the wrong party. Either way, the very act of confronting someone and telling them they have no right to practice their freedom of speech (which all "free" countries provide that right) just makes you a hypocrite, so stop.
It may be free speech for you to say hey I think what you bought is dumb and I'm just as free to tell you to piss off it's none of your business how i spend my money on my hobby. It's not being a hypocrite. If anyone needs to stop it would be you . the Slap guy was very capable of responding to my comment he doesn't need you making a mess of what he said.
OR ! lets hire someone who can get MUCH more MONEY out from the same SHcontent....
--> Good idea, because they already use a franchise name for an online game which have nothing in common or similarity .... heck ! lets even make the dumbest fight system ever !
Sommerset .... yeah right