Progression

Vermillion_Raventhal

What is more important to you?  How you level or the end result of you level?  Journey vs. Destination.

I would say both are about equal to me.  I can't play MMO where the leveling is boring test to see if I deserve in game.  On the other hand I like to flesh out my character horizontal or progressive leveling into something I like to play.  

Panther2103

I think I agree that both are equal. You have to make the journey fun, and long enough to feel worth it, but the destination has to have something worth doing as well. There has to be a balance. Which devs seem to either cater one way or the other, not both usually. 

Scorchien

  well over the years , i can say i really always have enjoyed the Journey much more than the end game ..

  The journey was really great in games like UO,AC,AO,DAOC, Eve ,EQ etc .. These games were all about the journey living and dying in that world .. Overcoming odds...  The offerings of today are a fairly fast ride to end game dailies ... Much shallower experiences imo

Albatroes

For me, its more about the point than the actual activity. What I mean by that is, how everything plays together in order for you to respect the systems in place.

I think earlier FFXI can explain my point a bit better. So back in the day, you could level up and after 50 you had level caps where you had to do a quest to increase your level cap (you could play everything on a single character in FFXI). The quests up to 66 were easy enough, with some rng involved with some (mainly the first level cap), then for the 66-70 one to increase your level cap up to 75 you had to fight a dude that was your class but it was also another class as well (classes were called jobs in FFXI). Pretty much, this would test how well you knew your class, if you geared properly and if you had your skills actually leveled up (elemental skill/axe skill/etc similar to how wow did theres sorta). Originally, this was designed to be done for every job you want to take past 70 but people complained for nearly a year before they made it a one time pass I think (it was probably all red mages complaining too since red mage maat was a nightmare). The point, everything worked in together in order to provide an overall experience. Back then, if people saw you had jobs up to a certain level and/or certain equipment, they knew you either were skilled or had massive amounts of money but honestly things didn't get sold too often due to how horrid the rng was back then.

I think that's the main thing people are missing about 'classic' versions of game, the meaning behind what you're doing, not the activities you were actually doing. Since leveling to cap was so long in many games back in the day, players had to think carefully about what they wanted to level up while also managing things like inventory space/money/etc on a regular basis while leveling. Skill/abilities/spells weren't just given to you either like they are today, with some games requiring you farm mob drops for spells (in ffxi) or going to trainers and paying a bunch of gold (like in wow). You actually started to bond with your character and care for it, rather than raising an alt army that you can barely remember who has what done. It may sound weird to some, but respect was an important thing back in the day in games, which is definitely lacking today.

Pemmin

they are equal

you can't have a journey if you stand still

Iselin

Definitely the Journey for me. It's why in most of the MMOs I've played all my character slots are full with alts.

I enjoy the challenge of coping with less than the ideal (end game) tool kit and the faster pace of advancement. End game is typically more about small and subtle progression through gear or some other end-game scheme,

hallucigenocide

the end result kind of kills it for me.. most games nowadays focus on that at the cost of the journey. look at WoW if you want a worst case scenario.

you know like excessive power gains at a rapid pace,levels always increasing making everything obsolete etc. yeah i know "muh rpg"  

WarEnsemble

I enjoy games where the "end game" is the real game. I don't care anything about the leveling process and especially hate "quest to level" systems. I also almost never play an alt as I feel like I am cheating on my main.

Amathe

There is no such thing as end game. No sooner do you reach max level then they raise the level cap and add more dungeons. Boom you are back on your journey.

AAAMEOW

Why does it matter.   All the games I played I have a few thousands playing hours.  I don't quit after I reached max level.

I presume from your post you are the type that need a level up bar to continue playing.

I played korean grinders with unreachable level cap.   The problem is the level gap between players get too large.  That is why themepark games have easy to reach max level.  So everyone is relatively the same power level.

I understand you hate wow, and almost every post talk about how bad wow is and other theme park game is... But the whole reason for easy to reach level cap is people need to be at the same power level to do dungeon and pvp together.  But of crouse you won't understand the concept.  Because most likely you quit the game after reaching max level.

Vermillion_Raventhal

AAAMEOW said:

Why does it matter.   All the games I played I have a few thousands playing hours.  I don't quit after I reached max level.

I presume from your post you are the type that need a level up bar to continue playing.

I played korean grinders with unreachable level cap.   The problem is the level gap between players get too large.  That is why themepark games have easy to reach max level.  So everyone is relatively the same power level.

I understand you hate wow, and almost every post talk about how bad wow is and other theme park game is... But the whole reason for easy to reach level cap is people need to be at the same power level to do dungeon and pvp together.  But of crouse you won't understand the concept.  Because most likely you quit the game after reaching max level.

Who said I hate WoW or themeparks?  

Kyleran

Amathe said:

There is no such thing as end game. No sooner do you reach max level then they raise the level cap and add more dungeons. Boom you are back on your journey.

Which is when I realized how pointless the typical theme park style gear grinder really is.

and the music stopped.....

Wizardry

Obviously the journey because level 1 is exactly the same as level 101 just more of the same ,different foes different gear.
Then to see scaling just makes my eyes bleed,you take one of the fails of a rpg and make that worse...sigh.

Let's turn an entire world....game  into nothing more than a bunch of instances grinding gear so you are able to hit a new instance.
So yeah for me,it is about the people you meet along the way,the new art work and discoveries along the way,the new npc personalities,the new skills you learn along the way.When it comes time to hit the last level it is a sad state of gaming that evolves from there,one i have never enjoyed.

Oh but wait,let's call these instances RAIDS,oh boy isn't that exciting....sigh.Then after we kill that boss,we can just reenter and kill the same boss again a few minutes later,but wait ,i thought we just killed him...apparently not ,all the while 500 other groups are killing that same boss because hey isn't instance gaming ...FUN.

iixviiiix

I just love to see my character grow stronger and stronger , collect more shine and shine .

Who care it about grind ? quest ? boss raid ?

Much say that i more enjoy the game when bots did everything for me and i only need to come back to check how the cute slaves (bots) progress .

PVP , PVE , boss raid is all the side dish for me .

AlBQuirky

The journey. (Surprise!)

cheyane

Definitely the journey. End game with all the grinding and end game resource gathering before dungeons makes me quit pronto soon after. So I have very little raid and end game experience even though I raided for years in Everquest and WoW I simply hated it but for my friends.

kitarad

cheyane said:

Definitely the journey. End game with all the grinding and end game resource gathering before dungeons makes me quit pronto soon after. So I have very little raid and end game experience even though I raided for years in Everquest and WoW I simply hated it but for my friends.

How can you have very little raid experience if you raided for years in Everquest and WoW?

cheyane

I should have said 'in spite of'.

Amaranthar

Both for me.
But here's the thing. I don't want it to be about levels. I want the journey to be about building both my character and my assets, with no real "end" to it all.
I want to be able to seek out advancements in my character and build "him/her" into what I want. I don't want it just leveled according to the system. I want to find the know-how to make stronger spells, or stronger special attacks, or better potions, or finer weaponry, etc. I want to do it, not the game's dictation that a level grants it.

I always wanted to see players be able to advance past the top "level" of skills, but at that point lose some with each death back to the "top level". So that it's possible to build an extraordinary character, and everyone would know what an accomplishment it is. A slow gain rate, and something like a 50% loss of the current "over-the-top" skill gain upon a death.

Octagon7711

It use to be just getting to max level when I first started playing MMO's.  Now it's pretty much the journey.  Some games I've never reached max level because at some point the game style changed and I wasn't having fun.  Other games I've maxed every class because I enjoyed the content so much.

Neanderthal

My first inclination was to say I prefer the journey over the destination but then I realized that's not exactly right.  It depends on what I'm doing at any given point in the game.  I could (and have) hated the leveling up part of a game if I didn't like the type of game play I had to do during that part of the game.  I know quite well I can hate (and have) the end game of a MMO.

So really my answer is neither and both.  What matters to me is the type game play the game is designed for.

Neanderthal

Kyleran said:

Amathe said:

There is no such thing as end game. No sooner do you reach max level then they raise the level cap and add more dungeons. Boom you are back on your journey.

Which is when I realized how pointless the typical theme park style gear grinder really is.

and the music stopped.....

That's right, which why the nature of the game play is all that really matters.  If you enjoy what you are doing to gain levels and/or loot then it's worth it to keep playing.  If you don't enjoy the type of game play required to progress then it is ridiculous to keep playing just to keep adding numbers to a character you don't even like playing.

VengeSunsoar

Yes both for me as well. I likeI like having fun along the way. I also want to like where I am going.

Mendel

While I tend to appreciate the Journey more than the Destination, the Journey has become increasingly similar throughout.  I end up doing the same thing at level 10 as I do at level 50, only with different graphics.  I'm not finding as many interesting points on the journey, at least not enough to keep me interested in most offerings.  There's nothing to mark my character's accomplishments, no specific trial that I must complete in order to continue or a new tactic to incorporate into my combat routine.  I end up repeating the same basic combat operations, eventually running all out of new experiences.  Boredom sets in, and I move on.

Phaserlight

I prefer the journey with end destinations along the way.  Horizontal progression.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Phaserlight said:

I prefer the journey with end destinations along the way.  Horizontal progression.

Horizontal or shallow vertical progression is something that seems like a hard sell.  So many games waste time and content on easy level up to the real game.  It doesn't take that long to learn the game.  In fact it is usually counterproductive because end game is group based.