New Caspien tantrum about news coverage

Slapshot1188

Caspien has posted a "brilliant" response on his forum:



Firstly... you really have to love the way he wants pity for having to take a few minutes on a Sunday to post.  He is supposed to be the CEO of a startup company.   Seriously?  You are going to complain about taking 10 minutes to post on a Sunday?  I think I understand why he misses all these dates.  He absolutely does not have a startup mentality and it shows.

Anyhow, the reason I call it a "brilliant" response is because it pretty much ignores Tim's article but just responds to some really easy low hanging fruit from one poster.  This guy served up softballs and Caspien jumped at the chance to respond.  
Example:

When they promise things that never happen, why dont the community hold them accountable?

I'm not sure what you mean by never happen. We had several community events come and go that we said would happen, we've got domain & settlement selection coming up soon as well. We reached our Friends & Family milestone earlier last year, but decided not to release the "Walk & Talk" to Alpha 1 backers. Now we're working on getting the game into the hands of players as quickly as possible. Trust me when I say it's coming soon.

But to say never is both a gross over statement and is honestly incorrect. As long as I'm coming into work every day, never hasn't happened yet. In the words of the famous Dread Pirate Roberts, "You're only saying never because no one ever has."

------

Isn't he so smart!  Never hasn't happened yet.  HA HA.  Just want I want my CEO saying when he hasn't delivered what he said he would.

Or then there is this beauty:

Is it not a bit dis-concerning that after so many years they have yet to produce anything that can be viewed as progress and are way overdue on timelines and so on?

We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016). Since then we've had to roll our own back-end servers, create a front-end that can communicate with our back-end, and implement the many gameplay mechanics and systems that exist in the Pre-Alpha - in addition to all the work we've had to do around world building and world generation; including creating the lore and details of all the biomes, flora, fauna, historical events, and Tribes of Elyria.

I know that all sounds defensive, but it's really not meant to be. I just wanted to highlight that we've done a ton in a relatively short amount of time. I say relatively because if you compare us with other in-development and previous MMOs you can see that we're still doing quite well on time.

I know when you're watching the clock waiting for the project to be completed it can seem like an eternity. But I've worked longer than this on single-player free-roaming adventure games.

-----

Silly people!  Of course an MMORPG can't be completed in 2 years!  Why it's crazy to even think that!  Why would you get that crazy idea in your head?  Gantt charts schmant charts! (for those new to the story, the first big argument was when Caspien listed a Dec 2017 release date and then forcefully defended that date by referring to his Gantt charts)

And then the Shame On You Guys part:

And why do we never get a response from SbS on this forum with things like this, not like the tactic of ignoring concerns have worked for them...

Frankly, because we have things to do. There will always be negative articles that come out about the game. Even post-launch. We can't stop development each time that happens to address it. We shouldn't have to.

------
So instead of taking an opportunity to really address Tim, he takes a shot at an easy target which of course he then links to his Ivory Tower followers so they can go "upvote" his response and reaffirm their commitment to what he has literally called it: "The Gospel Of CoE".

Slapshot1188

And one more thing,  during the Kickstarter this is what SBS said:

Soulbound Studios promises to:

• Continue developer transparency & the access levels we’ve become known for 
• Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website 
• Use ALL Kickstarter funds on ONLY the development of Chronicles of Elyria

See that highlighted part?.  The last published schedule on their website is from July 2017 and this is what it says:

1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
6. KoE (T2 2018)
7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
8. Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
9. Beta 1 (S1 2019)
10. Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
11. Exposition (S1 2019)
12. Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
13. Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
14. Launch (S2 2019)

It's something they literally PROMISED to do (so no weaseling) Yet they haven't updated it in a year and a half of their 2-year production.  Then he complains that people actually want updates. 

All people are asking him to do is what he PROMISED he would do.  He didn't promise to have monthly sales.  He didn't promise to deliver wall of text developer journals.  He promised to publish AND UPDATE his schedule.  His failure to do so is what has caused much of this stress.

EDIT- WTF... I fell for Caspien-speak!   Their production didn't start 2 years and 2 months ago.  I'll post below.

ConstantineMerus

Gdemami said:

ConstantineMerus said:

Mmorpg.com has certainly drove quite a lot of people to CoE. And it still could. So why that reaction? Because of hurt feelings over one article or is there something else that I'm missing?

Certainly? I wonder what your certainty is based upon...


Regardless, the 'why' is rather irrelevant. J. Walsh has every right to take the steps he has taken and contrary to what staff here believes, he does not owe them, or anyone else, an explanation or w/e.

The troll article published is a good reason enough, what more is there to talk about?

Maybe I'm wrong here, but he used this platform to introduce his idea initially. "Certainly" came from comparing the amounts of pro CoE articles' views to Tim's article. You are right, I shouldn't have certainly, but come one mate that was good exposure and it is not an invalid speculation. 

I never questioned his rights. He has the right to close down shop right now without owing anyone any explanation--why I believe so is for another discussion--let alone the right to block this site. Nonetheless, I fail to see this site working against him. 

Forum members? Sure. Now we're just some random strangers on this forum. We come here to debate and we offer what we can. Point it out when they are factually incorrect, or just don't give a fuck. And if they are correct then what's the fucking complaint? 

I could get behind his decision if Tim's trolling had hurt them financially. But if you are going to chose to run out of Internet every time your feelings are hurt then soon you'd be running out of places to hide in. 

I rarely agree with Slap. And I agree with you a lot of times. I'm not part of any bandwagon here. I can't see as anything but an emotional response, a tantrum in every sense of the word, and it ain't a rational response--if it is and you care enough do tell me why. To be honest mate, I find it strange that you of all people would support this, even if you are a major shareholder in SBS. 

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

And one more thing,  during the Kickstarter this is what SBS said:

Soulbound Studios promises to:

• Continue developer transparency & the access levels we’ve become known for 
• Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website 
• Use ALL Kickstarter funds on ONLY the development of Chronicles of Elyria

See that highlighted part?.  The last published schedule on their website is from July 2017 and this is what it says:

1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
6. KoE (T2 2018)
7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
8. We kinda lost our shit... 

There you go.. updated.. 

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

Slapshot1188 said:

And one more thing,  during the Kickstarter this is what SBS said:

Soulbound Studios promises to:

• Continue developer transparency & the access levels we’ve become known for 
• Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website 
• Use ALL Kickstarter funds on ONLY the development of Chronicles of Elyria

See that highlighted part?.  The last published schedule on their website is from July 2017 and this is what it says:

1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
6. KoE (T2 2018)
7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
8. We kinda lost our shit... 

There you go.. updated.. 

Well that would have to go far earlier...  All they delivered was #1 and #4. And pretty sure #4 was just so they knew how many "Royal" packages they could sell on each server.  And actually I think even think #1 was blown by a few months but it gets hazy trying to track everything they miss.

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

Caspien has posted a "brilliant" response on his forum:



Firstly... you really have to love the way he wants pity for having to take a few minutes on a Sunday to post.  He is supposed to be the CEO of a startup company.   Seriously?  You are going to complain about taking 10 minutes to post on a Sunday?  I think I understand why he misses all these dates.  He absolutely does not have a startup mentality and it shows.

Anyhow, the reason I call it a "brilliant" response is because it pretty much ignores Tim's article but just responds to some really easy low hanging fruit from one poster.  This guy served up softballs and Caspien jumped at the chance to respond.  
Example:

When they promise things that never happen, why dont the community hold them accountable?

I'm not sure what you mean by never happen. We had several community events come and go that we said would happen, we've got domain & settlement selection coming up soon as well. We reached our Friends & Family milestone earlier last year, but decided not to release the "Walk & Talk" to Alpha 1 backers. Now we're working on getting the game into the hands of players as quickly as possible. Trust me when I say it's coming soon.

But to say never is both a gross over statement and is honestly incorrect. As long as I'm coming into work every day, never hasn't happened yet. In the words of the famous Dread Pirate Roberts, "You're only saying never because no one ever has."

------

Isn't he so smart!  Never hasn't happened yet.  HA HA.  Just want I want my CEO saying when he hasn't delivered what he said he would.

Or then there is this beauty:

Is it not a bit dis-concerning that after so many years they have yet to produce anything that can be viewed as progress and are way overdue on timelines and so on?

We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016). Since then we've had to roll our own back-end servers, create a front-end that can communicate with our back-end, and implement the many gameplay mechanics and systems that exist in the Pre-Alpha - in addition to all the work we've had to do around world building and world generation; including creating the lore and details of all the biomes, flora, fauna, historical events, and Tribes of Elyria.

I know that all sounds defensive, but it's really not meant to be. I just wanted to highlight that we've done a ton in a relatively short amount of time. I say relatively because if you compare us with other in-development and previous MMOs you can see that we're still doing quite well on time.

I know when you're watching the clock waiting for the project to be completed it can seem like an eternity. But I've worked longer than this on single-player free-roaming adventure games.

-----

Silly people!  Of course an MMORPG can't be completed in 2 years!  Why it's crazy to even think that!  Why would you get that crazy idea in your head?  Gantt charts schmant charts! (for those new to the story, the first big argument was when Caspien listed a Dec 2017 release date and then forcefully defended that date by referring to his Gantt charts)

And then the Shame On You Guys part:

And why do we never get a response from SbS on this forum with things like this, not like the tactic of ignoring concerns have worked for them...

Frankly, because we have things to do. There will always be negative articles that come out about the game. Even post-launch. We can't stop development each time that happens to address it. We shouldn't have to.

------
So instead of taking an opportunity to really address Tim, he takes a shot at an easy target which of course he then links to his Ivory Tower followers so they can go "upvote" his response and reaffirm their commitment to what he has literally called it: "The Gospel Of CoE".

So the end of the day he has come back with some more reasonable answers.

The "trust me" remark made me cough soda up thru my nose,  but otherwise it's clear he knows it's time to show something concrete. 

Whether he can do it or not is another question which probably is best left to a future thread.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

So the end of the day he has come back with some more reasonable answers.

The "trust me" remark made me cough soda up thru my nose,  but otherwise it's clear he knows it's time to show something concrete. 

Whether he can do it or not is another question which probably is best left to a future thread.

Oh they absolutely will have some people in their Pre-Elyria (the successor to the canceled VoxElyria which was the successor to the canceled ElyriaMud) soon.  It will show very basic stuff similar to what James Proctor can show in his Rise of Heroes game. You will be able to make a character, move around a smallish map, have an inventory, basic chat, basic combat, some really basic PvE and maybe basic crafting.  All shit that James Proctor did with store bought unity assets in a few days.

It will be hailed as an incredible step as people set foot in Elyria!
But the discerning eye will easily be able to see how basic it is and how very far they have to go just to get to the standard MMORPG release, not to mention all their "revolutionary" concepts.

PS: next Thursday is supposed to be the big 0.5 update blog from Caspien.  I'd expect shortly thereafter we will see the next big Sale Event announcement.

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So the end of the day he has come back with some more reasonable answers.

The "trust me" remark made me cough soda up thru my nose,  but otherwise it's clear he knows it's time to show something concrete. 

Whether he can do it or not is another question which probably is best left to a future thread.

Oh they absolutely will have some people in their Pre-Elyria (the successor to the canceled VoxElyria which was the successor to the canceled ElyriaMud) soon.  It will show very basic stuff similar to what James Proctor can show in his Rise of Heroes game. You will be able to make a character, move around a smallish map, have an inventory, basic chat, basic combat, some really basic PvE and maybe basic crafting.  All shit that James Proctor did with store bought unity assets in a few days.

Wait.. so.. if James Proctor could make an alpha, in like a few days, why did Greed Monger fail? I mean if it is that easy to make a game, why aren't we pumping out MMO's on the monthly basis? 

LackingMMO

Slapshot1188 said:

Caspien has posted a "brilliant" response on his forum:



Firstly... you really have to love the way he wants pity for having to take a few minutes on a Sunday to post.  He is supposed to be the CEO of a startup company.   Seriously?  You are going to complain about taking 10 minutes to post on a Sunday?  I think I understand why he misses all these dates.  He absolutely does not have a startup mentality and it shows.

Anyhow, the reason I call it a "brilliant" response is because it pretty much ignores Tim's article but just responds to some really easy low hanging fruit from one poster.  This guy served up softballs and Caspien jumped at the chance to respond.  
Example:

When they promise things that never happen, why dont the community hold them accountable?

I'm not sure what you mean by never happen. We had several community events come and go that we said would happen, we've got domain & settlement selection coming up soon as well. We reached our Friends & Family milestone earlier last year, but decided not to release the "Walk & Talk" to Alpha 1 backers. Now we're working on getting the game into the hands of players as quickly as possible. Trust me when I say it's coming soon.

But to say never is both a gross over statement and is honestly incorrect. As long as I'm coming into work every day, never hasn't happened yet. In the words of the famous Dread Pirate Roberts, "You're only saying never because no one ever has."

------

Isn't he so smart!  Never hasn't happened yet.  HA HA.  Just want I want my CEO saying when he hasn't delivered what he said he would.

Or then there is this beauty:

Is it not a bit dis-concerning that after so many years they have yet to produce anything that can be viewed as progress and are way overdue on timelines and so on?

We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016). Since then we've had to roll our own back-end servers, create a front-end that can communicate with our back-end, and implement the many gameplay mechanics and systems that exist in the Pre-Alpha - in addition to all the work we've had to do around world building and world generation; including creating the lore and details of all the biomes, flora, fauna, historical events, and Tribes of Elyria.

I know that all sounds defensive, but it's really not meant to be. I just wanted to highlight that we've done a ton in a relatively short amount of time. I say relatively because if you compare us with other in-development and previous MMOs you can see that we're still doing quite well on time.

I know when you're watching the clock waiting for the project to be completed it can seem like an eternity. But I've worked longer than this on single-player free-roaming adventure games.

-----

Silly people!  Of course an MMORPG can't be completed in 2 years!  Why it's crazy to even think that!  Why would you get that crazy idea in your head?  Gantt charts schmant charts! (for those new to the story, the first big argument was when Caspien listed a Dec 2017 release date and then forcefully defended that date by referring to his Gantt charts)

And then the Shame On You Guys part:

And why do we never get a response from SbS on this forum with things like this, not like the tactic of ignoring concerns have worked for them...

Frankly, because we have things to do. There will always be negative articles that come out about the game. Even post-launch. We can't stop development each time that happens to address it. We shouldn't have to.

------
So instead of taking an opportunity to really address Tim, he takes a shot at an easy target which of course he then links to his Ivory Tower followers so they can go "upvote" his response and reaffirm their commitment to what he has literally called it: "The Gospel Of CoE".

Well he is right though, at this point the only thing people will accept is something real. For the games sake it needs to hurry because as the show goes on the interest will dwindle and with reactions like the willingness to try will also fade. I hope them the best and we will see what happens, hey you never know sometimes the rides that start out bumpy end up being fun in the end.. maybe just maybe.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

Wait.. so.. if James Proctor could make an alpha, in like a few days, why did Greed Monger fail? I mean if it is that easy to make a game, why aren't we pumping out MMO's on the monthly basis? 

That's my point Dear Friend.  That's my point.
The tough work lays ahead.

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

Wait.. so.. if James Proctor could make an alpha, in like a few days, why did Greed Monger fail? I mean if it is that easy to make a game, why aren't we pumping out MMO's on the monthly basis? 

That's my point Dear Friend.  That's my point.
The tough work lays ahead.

No.. you miss my point.

If it was this easy.. and could be done in 2 days, why doesn't everyone who is looking for a KS or Crowed Funded MMO, or maybe some backing, pump out something like this to raise money and interest.

It literally makes no sense.

Slapshot1188

OK.. a few posts above I actually fell for Caspien-Speak.  He had posted today:
"We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016)"

But once again... if you just read what he posted in his Kickstarter (May 2016):
"We have an established team of 16 people, funded from CEO, Jeromy Walsh’s, own money for the last year." 

So did production start with a team of 16 a year prior to the Kickstarter (May 2015) as he stated then?  Or did production not start until Nov 2016 as he says now?

At the end of the day, all that really matters is that they haven't produced the game they said they would, but I am continually amazed at how he constantly revises history and how nobody seems to ever call him on it.  


And lest we forget... it was Caspien that set the target of Dec 2017 for FULL RELEASE of the game:


For him to now be questioning why people could expect a released game in 2019 is just laughable.

In each and every case HE set the expectations and HE failed to live up to them. He is the root cause of all the issues, yet he deflects and revises and people do not question...

LackingMMO

Slapshot1188 said:

OK.. a few posts above I actually fell for Caspien-Speak.  He had posted today:
"We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016)"

But once again... if you just read what he posted in his Kickstarter (May 2016):
"We have an established team of 16 people, funded from CEO, Jeromy Walsh’s, own money for the last year." 

So did production start with a team of 16 a year prior to the Kickstarter as he stated then?  Or did production not start until Nov 2016 as he says now?

At the end of the day, all that really matters is that they haven't produced the game they said they would, but I am continually amazed at how he constantly revises history and how nobody seems to ever call him on it.  

Yeah I think its that way with a few projects really. Either produce or get out, enough talk already. Dates of when a project starts only mean so much if nothing has been done. It could have started 2008, if they don't have anything to show then who cares? The amount of kickstarters with broken promises is draining and honestly disheartening.

FlyByKnight

This dude who "runs" the show at Caspien makes Mark Kern look like Adam Kiciński.

I'm still giggling at "The community over at MMORPG.com has made it clear they don't want this game, so I'm taking my ball that nobody wants over to PC Gamer"

2 points.

1. There's a diverse collective of posters on this site. We're not Borg. We can barely agree with each other on the most basic of things. Did he honestly think pedaling an unfinished Monty Python Black Knight simulator was enough to get us all to uniformly "want" CoE?
2. MMORPG.com reviewers/writers are the most underhand softball throwing, annoyingly too easy to please, too hard to annoy reviewers this side of the internets.  How TF does one manage to get upset with THESE folks and then run over to PC Gamer? "The Partridge Family is too rude and snarky, I'm going over to The Bundy's" Yeah, good luck with that buddy.

craftseeker

Slapshot1188 said:

OK.. a few posts above I actually fell for Caspien-Speak.  He had posted today:
"We've been in production for 2 years and 2 months (Since Nov. 2016)"

But once again... if you just read what he posted in his Kickstarter (May 2016):
"We have an established team of 16 people, funded from CEO, Jeromy Walsh’s, own money for the last year." 

So did production start with a team of 16 a year prior to the Kickstarter (May 2015) as he stated then?  Or did production not start until Nov 2016 as he says now?

At the end of the day, all that really matters is that they haven't produced the game they said they would, but I am continually amazed at how he constantly revises history and how nobody seems to ever call him on it.  


And lest we forget... it was Caspien that set the target of Dec 2017 for FULL RELEASE of the game:


For him to now be questioning why people could expect a released game in 2019 is just laughable.

In each and every case HE set the expectations and HE failed to live up to them. He is the root cause of all the issues, yet he deflects and revises and people do not question...

Even more interesting where did this mysterious capital for the first year come from? Remember, only a few years earlier, he had a self funded project collapse, then a period of unemployment and then a couple of jobs which would not have been high paying.

Scot

Any word from PC Gamer yet?

Gdemami

LackingMMO said:

when you waste time to create a demo and toss it for the heck of it
....
They is a huge size difference in funds and CoE needs all the help it can get, not isolation.

Wasted? Oh really...? This is very much what I was talking about, it's not legit, it is an ignorant nonsense you are parroting so let's not follow that path...

Erm, help? How is trolling helpful in any way?

When you back a project, you give money away.

If you are not ready to part with your money, then simply do not donate money on KS because it does not entitle you to any 'questioning' how someone is running their business, even less to tell them how they should do it.

Gdemami

ConstantineMerus said:
To be honest mate, I find it strange that you of all people would support this, even if you are a major shareholder in SBS. 

That is the point, me, nor anyone else here is a major shareholder, yet people act like they are...

Whether his decision was rational or not, is just his business, yet you seem to have an issue with that because you keep bringing it up over and over.

You cannot say you acknowledge his right to do as he wish and then keep pondering how immature his decision was.

etlar

Gdemami said:

LackingMMO said:

when you waste time to create a demo and toss it for the heck of it
....
They is a huge size difference in funds and CoE needs all the help it can get, not isolation.

Wasted? Oh really...? This is very much what I was talking about, it's not legit, it is an ignorant nonsense you are parroting so let's not follow that path...

Erm, help? How is trolling helpful in any way?

When you back a project, you give money away.

If you are not ready to part with your money, then simply do not donate money on KS because it does not entitle you to any 'questioning' how someone is running their business, even less to tell them how they should do it.

When people back or co-fund are project, they are in their rights to know whats going on, they are your investors..you are either Caspien or a complete retard..seriously borderline. but Caspien/retard/Gdemami seems to be the same.

Gdemami

etlar said:

When people back or co-fund are project, they are in their rights to know whats going on, they are your investors..

Sorry to disappoint you but they are not an investor, backing on KS is done via donations - there is no other liability for the donee but to 'make their best'.

Projects can't offer equity.

Investment is not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can't offer incentives like equity, revenue sharing, or investment opportunities.

https://www.kickstarter.com/rules?ref=global-footer

etlar

Gdemami said:

etlar said:

When people back or co-fund are project, they are in their rights to know whats going on, they are your investors..

Sorry to disappoint you but they are not an investor, backing on KS is done via donations - there is no other liability for the donee but to 'make their best'.

Projects can't offer equity.

Investment is not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can't offer incentives like equity, revenue sharing, or investment opportunities.

https://www.kickstarter.com/rules?ref=global-footer

ok, glad i didnt back it then. i was wrong about that part it seems, so you are telling me if you back something you have no legal rights on kickstarter`?

etlar

Yup, looks like you are right, kickstarter must be the perfect place to rob people then 

Gdemami

etlar said:

ok, glad i didnt back it then. i was wrong about that part it seems, so you are telling me if you back something you have no legal rights on kickstarter`?

When it comes to project and the money put into, there is indeed no liability. However, KS is a bit more strict on rewards(trinkets) and their delivery can be enforced legaly or set a ground for a refund.

cochs

Equity crowd funding is actually a thing.  Not aware of any games that went that route, some might have just not any I know about.

etlar

Gdemami said:

etlar said:

ok, glad i didnt back it then. i was wrong about that part it seems, so you are telling me if you back something you have no legal rights on kickstarter`?

When it comes to project and the money put into, there is indeed no liability. However, KS is a bit more strict on rewards(trinkets) and their delivery can be enforced legaly or set a ground for a refund.

well, sorry for the retard remark then, clearly im the retard!:)