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Lost Ark Closed Beta Impressions | MMORPG.com

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    I stopped playing, I do not want to spoil the whole experience once it's out.
    I only downloaded because of folks reaction to controls. Which is not an issue if you played old classic Diablo style games.

    Ye , same ive played enough to know its gonna be fun .. Gonna wait to release to really dig in ..
    ConstantineMerusStoneRosesSetzer
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    BlazerX said:
    Oh I wouldn't take anything anyone says on a forum here at mmorpg.com on asian games seriously.  Most of these are just haters or poorly disguised racist f**Kers who just hate anything "asian".  

    They'll rant and rave over a sub-sucking game like New World with all its broken shit in that game and exploits and yet, you present a 2 year polished game that has had untold success in other regions and they'll just poo poo over it because its not "western".

    I actually haven't been to this site in ages but I was curious and one look again at the forums here and the trolls that populate it are enough to make me stay away again for a long time.

    Nope not missing this site at all and if the moderators/owners of this site is smart they would start purging all the trolls from their troll cave holes they've set up here.

    ~Nuff said.
    I don't hate all Korean games.  There have been quite a few Korean imports that I thought were decent:  Elsword, Astellia, Tree of Savior, Hyper Universe, Riders of Icarus, Kritika.  For Kritika, Hyper Universe, and possibly Astellia, I was probably the only regular on this site to like the game.  The reason I think Lost Ark is awful is not that it's Korean.  It's that I tried to play it and it was awful.
    KidRiskCMHWoodySandmanjw
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    JeroKane said:


    This game has the worst control scheme... to think when there is Diablo, these guys would mess up the controls probably as bad as Last Epoch, if not worse.



    The game is literally unplayable. I also don't understand why anyone would be excited about a game locked in isometric view with horrible controls in 2021. If it was 2003, I would be OK with with, but now that's just an insult.



    The game is made for use with Controller.

    I almost wanted to log off and uninstall the game again, when I thought about hooking up my XBOX controller.

    Then it fell all into place and the game actually became playable.


    But the game itself is just mehh.... typical Korean style cliche characters and story. Same with the over the top combat and animations. Blehh. You either like it or hate it.
    If the game is supposed to be played with a controller, then you're going to have to explain how I'm supposed to play it with a controller.  Moving the character is based on click the mouse pointer somewhere to move there.  Attacking enemies is based on point at them with a mouse pointer and press some button to attack attack.

    So yes, I can use a controller thumbstick to move the mouse pointer and click on things.  But that's very, very slow and very awkward.  Is there some way to make it not really slow and awkward?  Games that want to make movement easy to do with a controller generally offer WASD-style movement that can be easily mapped to a D-pad.  I timed it as taking eight seconds to move the mouse pointer across the screen using a controller thumbstick.

    And I stand by what I said above about the controller support:  it looks like it was designed by someone who had never used a controller in his life.  All those mouse clicks?  By default, those map to thumbstick clicks, which are physically awkward and ergonomically terrible.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    For me it's an functionally awkward and generic ARPG with a badly delivered story, and an over-emphasis on character looks and GFX.

    It didn't do much for me a few months back when I first played it and it still doesn't. I can think of 10 0ther ARPGs I'd rather play.

    But hey, thanks to mmorpg.com for the freebie key. Played it enough yesterday to be certain this is not for me.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Quizzical said:
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    edited November 2021
    I love how Asian developers continue to lead the way in customization that every developer should take into consideration however agree gender locking should be over and done with in 2021 & it takes a bit to get use to the controls, the chatter in the main cities needs to be toned down also.

    COME TO THE CITY TO CHILL YO.

    After already quitting New World I'm curious if publishing games is the better route for Amazon?
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,980
    Really strange game. And I dont really know how to feel about it.

    It is kind of ARPG, but less good or fun than current top ARPGs ( lacking complexity, randomness, loot ).
    Than its kind of MMO, but feels more like ARPG loby game. No freedom. Small claustrophobic maps with enemies that serve more like annoyance than anything else.

    So its not "best of both worlds" but opposite: "Worst of both worlds"

    The graphic is kind of good...At least better than current ARPGs.

    All in all dissapointment



  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited November 2021
    Really strange game. And I dont really know how to feel about it.

    It is kind of ARPG, but less good or fun than current top ARPGs ( lacking complexity, randomness, loot ).
    Than its kind of MMO, but feels more like ARPG loby game. No freedom. Small claustrophobic maps with enemies that serve more like annoyance than anything else.

    So its not "best of both worlds" but opposite: "Worst of both worlds"

    The graphic is kind of good...At least better than current ARPGs.

    All in all dissapointment

    It is kinda different, it's less a lobby game than say POE though. It becomes more a dungeon grinder later in game. Most of the game happens after 50, so leveling up is more like a long tutorial. At 20 it gets more interesting with trade skills. After 50 it's just character building so you can get into higher level dungeons. You'll have housing, ships, pvp ect. Really it's all about setting personal challenges, then doing those solo or with a party daily.

    It's just a nice diversion really. I mean on point with a complex clicker game; there isn't always a point to it's existence, it's just something to do. As long as you don't seek depth in story or open world exploration, and aren't looking for it to be the end all be all MMO, it's not bad.
    Scorchien
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • armageddonx911armageddonx911 Member UncommonPosts: 7
    edited November 2021
    All these "journalist" 40 year old dead beat dads and with essay reviews. PoE and diablo comparisons when the game is literally nothing like them whatsoever other than being isometric. Reading some of these comments gave me an aneurism. Stop playing and reviewing any online game. If any of you can clear a abyss raid on hard blind i will chug dog shit water. Go review mobile games
    Setzer
  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Zenislav said:
    Dont forget to buy 100 euros founder pack for shity f2p game so you all get those crate, craft materials and what not. Also prepare more cash for later or you will need to play Lost Ark as second job rather than game for fun.
    I thought coming to forums/threads like this is what gamers did for fun? Games are serious....
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Quizzical said:
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    One of the things that is immediately obvious if you try to play with a controller is that trying to move and attack at the same time is completely impractical.  You need to do that in a lot of games.  Is it a mistake to care that you can't do that in Lost Ark?  If the game is designed around the assumption that you'll run from one battle to the next but always stay put beyond turning and attacking while in combat, that might be okay.  If you do need to move around with some semblance of precision while in combat, then the game is completely unplayable for me, so the sensible thing to do is to uninstall and never look back.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    edited November 2021
    The pissy lad above is right about one thing (or maybe more, htf should I know), that is Abyss Raiding.

    This game is an ARPG, but don't confuse the end game with Diablo 3 or Path of Exile; while there's a bit of strategy involved in those titles too, but that's just about how to zerg and fast kill everything, while Lost Ark offers complicated 16-man raiding and boss fights. 

    Here's an example: 


    I do understand that this game isn't for everyone, maybe some people would prefer D3 and hate this, I am just pointing out the difference. 

    Here's another raid with different phases: 


    ScorchienQuizzical[Deleted User]
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Your video sure looks like a lot of running around in combat.  If that's what you have to do in order to play the game competently, then that's straight-up impossible with a controller.  That sure looks like it's time to abandon the game as unplayable for lack of useful control options.  I had to do the same with Path of Exile, though PoE at least looked like it might have been good if it offered an option of WASD movement.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    One of the things that is immediately obvious if you try to play with a controller is that trying to move and attack at the same time is completely impractical.  You need to do that in a lot of games.  Is it a mistake to care that you can't do that in Lost Ark?  If the game is designed around the assumption that you'll run from one battle to the next but always stay put beyond turning and attacking while in combat, that might be okay.  If you do need to move around with some semblance of precision while in combat, then the game is completely unplayable for me, so the sensible thing to do is to uninstall and never look back.
    I don't play Lost Ark with a controller mate so I have no idea how that works. I played ARPGs with controllers on my PS, and I actually preferred that gameplay compared to M+KB. But I'm not sure how Lost Ark would fare with a controller, it seems the game at its current stage is designed mainly for MKB with controller as an option, not the optimum option. 
    Quizzical
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Quizzical said:
    Your video sure looks like a lot of running around in combat.  If that's what you have to do in order to play the game competently, then that's straight-up impossible with a controller.  That sure looks like it's time to abandon the game as unplayable for lack of useful control options.  I had to do the same with Path of Exile, though PoE at least looked like it might have been good if it offered an option of WASD movement.
    I believe you need to give MKB a good try before giving up. One thing that might help, and many make this mistake, that you don't have to right-click on mobs to attack them, like at all. Maybe a little bit at the beginning, and that is a maybe. It is just about position your character with left-click while facing the right way and managing your abilities with KB. You never need to click on a mob, well you can, but auto-attack is sorta useless in this game. All of your abilities are AoEs, you can't miss much. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    One of the things that is immediately obvious if you try to play with a controller is that trying to move and attack at the same time is completely impractical.  You need to do that in a lot of games.  Is it a mistake to care that you can't do that in Lost Ark?  If the game is designed around the assumption that you'll run from one battle to the next but always stay put beyond turning and attacking while in combat, that might be okay.  If you do need to move around with some semblance of precision while in combat, then the game is completely unplayable for me, so the sensible thing to do is to uninstall and never look back.
    I don't play Lost Ark with a controller mate so I have no idea how that works. I played ARPGs with controllers on my PS, and I actually preferred that gameplay compared to M+KB. But I'm not sure how Lost Ark would fare with a controller, it seems the game at its current stage is designed mainly for MKB with controller as an option, not the optimum option. 
    If you can use a thumbstick or D-pad to move, it's kind of awkward, but playable.  I did that in Pagan Online for a while.  But that requires a WASD-like control option, which Lost Ark does not offer.

    The problem is that in Lost Ark, the only way to move or attack is to aim the mouse pointer at either where you want to move or where you want to attack.  You can use a thumbstick to move the mouse pointer, but that's slow and imprecise.  Instead, if you want to switch between moving and attacking, you end up with something like a two second transition in which you're doing neither as you move the mouse pointer.  That can make turn-based games awkward, and is deadly in anything remotely twitchy.

    I also tried using Lost Ark's controller support.  It didn't work.  At all.  When relying on the built-in controller support, the thumbsticks did nothing, the D-pad did nothing, and every single button did nothing.  I'm used to controller support in PC games being partially broken, where this or that thing doesn't get recognized or is stupidly implemented.  But this isn't that; this is it does absolutely nothing whatsoever.  Mapping keyboard/mouse controls to the controller is my only option if I want to use my controller to play the game, and that means relying on a thumbstick to slowly move the mouse pointer around.
    ConstantineMerus
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    I feel like I've completely missed the point of the game.  I can't think of another MMO for which I felt like that.

    When developers design a game, they have in mind particular ways that they expect players to play the game.  Players don't always cooperate with that, but there is at least some developer intent behind it.  They're thinking, such and such is what is going to make the game interesting to play.  The problem is that for Lost Ark, I have no idea what they thought was going to make the game interesting.

    It's probably about combat.  Most MMORPGs are mostly about combat, and the tutorial hasn't introduced any major non-combat activities in how far I got.  If a game is mostly about combat and has good combat, that's good enough.

    But what is the point of the combat?  The control scheme makes moving or attacking awkward, and both at once infeasible.  Standing there holding down a button to spam attacks is at least comfortable, but seems stupid.  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is this supposed to be clicker-style combat?  You click a bunch, and then you win?  Well no, that's too harsh.  It matters that you actually click on mobs.  But is it whac-a-mole style combat, where you basically point at mobs and then they die?  Is that all that combat is supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be a WoW-style series of level and gear checks, and what you actually do in combat really isn't the point?  Well, that analogy doesn't work anymore, once WoW switched to level scaling.  But in Vanilla, WoW combat was almost entirely about if you're high enough level with good enough gear, you win, and if not, you lose.  There was only a very thin range where what you actually did in combat made the difference, and most players carefully stayed out of that range.  Is Lost Ark just a flashy interface on top of that?

    There are attack skills, though Steam tells me that I've played for 48 minutes, and so far, the tutorial is only telling me to ignore those skills and press C to attack.  Which at least works:  I hold down C and mobs die.  Maybe the tutorial will get to using skills later.  But is skill usage what is supposed to make combat interesting?  Other MMORPGs that have tried to go this route have typically struggled with it, as a fixed skill rotation that gets repeated everywhere is not interesting, nor is whacking each skill as soon as it comes off of cooldown.  Does Lost Ark have some way to improve on this?

    Is combat supposed to be about careful pulling, and not biting off more than you can chew?  What I've seen so far would seem to indicate "no", as massive amounts of minions come flooding into the area with no notion of pulling them apart even possible.

    So what am I missing here?  Have I completely missed the point of the game?  Is there something that is supposed to make the game interesting that I haven't caught?  Or is the game just that awful, with no plausible reason why anyone would like it?

    Normally, the person to ask questions like this is someone who likes the game.  But everyone here seems to hate it, with the exception of a few people who say that they'll save it for later, and not find out that they hate it until after launch.
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    One of the things that is immediately obvious if you try to play with a controller is that trying to move and attack at the same time is completely impractical.  You need to do that in a lot of games.  Is it a mistake to care that you can't do that in Lost Ark?  If the game is designed around the assumption that you'll run from one battle to the next but always stay put beyond turning and attacking while in combat, that might be okay.  If you do need to move around with some semblance of precision while in combat, then the game is completely unplayable for me, so the sensible thing to do is to uninstall and never look back.
    I don't play Lost Ark with a controller mate so I have no idea how that works. I played ARPGs with controllers on my PS, and I actually preferred that gameplay compared to M+KB. But I'm not sure how Lost Ark would fare with a controller, it seems the game at its current stage is designed mainly for MKB with controller as an option, not the optimum option. 
    If you can use a thumbstick or D-pad to move, it's kind of awkward, but playable.  I did that in Pagan Online for a while.  But that requires a WASD-like control option, which Lost Ark does not offer.

    The problem is that in Lost Ark, the only way to move or attack is to aim the mouse pointer at either where you want to move or where you want to attack.  You can use a thumbstick to move the mouse pointer, but that's slow and imprecise.  Instead, if you want to switch between moving and attacking, you end up with something like a two second transition in which you're doing neither as you move the mouse pointer.  That can make turn-based games awkward, and is deadly in anything remotely twitchy.

    I also tried using Lost Ark's controller support.  It didn't work.  At all.  When relying on the built-in controller support, the thumbsticks did nothing, the D-pad did nothing, and every single button did nothing.  I'm used to controller support in PC games being partially broken, where this or that thing doesn't get recognized or is stupidly implemented.  But this isn't that; this is it does absolutely nothing whatsoever.  Mapping keyboard/mouse controls to the controller is my only option if I want to use my controller to play the game, and that means relying on a thumbstick to slowly move the mouse pointer around.
    My bet is they will do a console release for this game. And when they do that the PC version would definitely get a similar update for controllers to work better. Well, maybe even sooner than that. I'd certainly hope so. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Quizzical said:
    Your video sure looks like a lot of running around in combat.  If that's what you have to do in order to play the game competently, then that's straight-up impossible with a controller.  That sure looks like it's time to abandon the game as unplayable for lack of useful control options.  I had to do the same with Path of Exile, though PoE at least looked like it might have been good if it offered an option of WASD movement.
    I believe you need to give MKB a good try before giving up. One thing that might help, and many make this mistake, that you don't have to right-click on mobs to attack them, like at all. Maybe a little bit at the beginning, and that is a maybe. It is just about position your character with left-click while facing the right way and managing your abilities with KB. You never need to click on a mob, well you can, but auto-attack is sorta useless in this game. All of your abilities are AoEs, you can't miss much. 
    Thank you for your replies, by the way.  You've been helpful to me.

    The problem is that I also use a mouse and keyboard for work.  Keyboard is okay, but mice are ergonomically bad, and heavy mouse usage in games on top of using a mouse at work is a repetitive injury strain waiting to happen.  Given a choice between quitting a particular game or quitting my job, it should be obvious why I use the former.

    That means that at home, I can't use a mouse for anything that is all that twitchy.  Keyboard and mouse, or even mouse only, is okay for very slow paced games that don't really take that much mouse usage.  That doesn't just mean turn based; some turn-based games have turns go by too fast for pure mouse usage to be safe.  But something with a lot of thinking mixed in or waiting for other players to move is safe for pure mouse usage in games.  Using keyboard and mouse occasionally in a mostly controller game is also fine, and I do that in a lot of games, such as to navigate menus or sift through loot at the end of an adventure.

    That's the real reason why I use a controller:  because I have to, not because I want to.  Controller usage relies on different muscles from the keyboard and mouse, so controller usage won't cause injuries unless just the controller alone causes the injury.  I've had to avoid some games on controller on this basis, too, such as DCUO or Closers.  (Not that I cared about the latter, as Closers is an awful game, anyway.)  Controller usage is fairly hit or miss, as in a lot of games, the controls just aren't configurable enough to map keyboard and mouse options to the controller.
    ConstantineMerus
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    The combat at its core is hack and slash. But early levels are too easy so it doesn't matter what you do. Later on you'd need different builds for different fights, you need combos, synergy with other classes, buffs, careful pulls, and some sort of a soft trinity. 
    One of the things that is immediately obvious if you try to play with a controller is that trying to move and attack at the same time is completely impractical.  You need to do that in a lot of games.  Is it a mistake to care that you can't do that in Lost Ark?  If the game is designed around the assumption that you'll run from one battle to the next but always stay put beyond turning and attacking while in combat, that might be okay.  If you do need to move around with some semblance of precision while in combat, then the game is completely unplayable for me, so the sensible thing to do is to uninstall and never look back.
    I don't play Lost Ark with a controller mate so I have no idea how that works. I played ARPGs with controllers on my PS, and I actually preferred that gameplay compared to M+KB. But I'm not sure how Lost Ark would fare with a controller, it seems the game at its current stage is designed mainly for MKB with controller as an option, not the optimum option. 
    If you can use a thumbstick or D-pad to move, it's kind of awkward, but playable.  I did that in Pagan Online for a while.  But that requires a WASD-like control option, which Lost Ark does not offer.

    The problem is that in Lost Ark, the only way to move or attack is to aim the mouse pointer at either where you want to move or where you want to attack.  You can use a thumbstick to move the mouse pointer, but that's slow and imprecise.  Instead, if you want to switch between moving and attacking, you end up with something like a two second transition in which you're doing neither as you move the mouse pointer.  That can make turn-based games awkward, and is deadly in anything remotely twitchy.

    I also tried using Lost Ark's controller support.  It didn't work.  At all.  When relying on the built-in controller support, the thumbsticks did nothing, the D-pad did nothing, and every single button did nothing.  I'm used to controller support in PC games being partially broken, where this or that thing doesn't get recognized or is stupidly implemented.  But this isn't that; this is it does absolutely nothing whatsoever.  Mapping keyboard/mouse controls to the controller is my only option if I want to use my controller to play the game, and that means relying on a thumbstick to slowly move the mouse pointer around.
    My bet is they will do a console release for this game. And when they do that the PC version would definitely get a similar update for controllers to work better. Well, maybe even sooner than that. I'd certainly hope so. 
    That would be nice to see.  But Path of Exile also made a console version, and basically added WASD-like movement to the console version as was essential to make it playable at all.  And they still didn't add it as an option to the PC version.

    Most PC game developers really don't seem to care if their game works with controllers.  That's often fine if the game at least offers highly configurable control systems.  A game that is playable (even if somewhat awkwardly) using only keyboard and no mouse will nearly always be fine on a controller.  Even requiring some mouse usage but never fast, precise movements is often also fine.  The only PC game that comes to mind that made me think that the developers obviously put in a lot of work into specifically making it controller-friendly is FFXIV.

    A lot of games offer some sort of official controller support, but the next PC game that I find where the controller support 100% works right out of the box without needing to tweak it will be the first.  A lot of times it's some little thing that's broken or badly implemented that you can work around with software to map controller buttons to keyboard or mouse functions.  Sometimes it takes some heavier duty tweaking, such as needing special software to tell TERA that there's an Xbox controller somewhere and so the controller menu should be enabled, or modifying a keybinds file in Notepad for Neverwinter.  Whether a game is controller-friendly to actually play is basically uncorrelated with whether it offers official controller support.
    ConstantineMerus
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,980
    Tiller said:
    Really strange game. And I dont really know how to feel about it.

    It is kind of ARPG, but less good or fun than current top ARPGs ( lacking complexity, randomness, loot ).
    Than its kind of MMO, but feels more like ARPG loby game. No freedom. Small claustrophobic maps with enemies that serve more like annoyance than anything else.

    So its not "best of both worlds" but opposite: "Worst of both worlds"

    The graphic is kind of good...At least better than current ARPGs.

    All in all dissapointment

    It is kinda different, it's less a lobby game than say POE though. It becomes more a dungeon grinder later in game. Most of the game happens after 50, so leveling up is more like a long tutorial. At 20 it gets more interesting with trade skills. After 50 it's just character building so you can get into higher level dungeons. You'll have housing, ships, pvp ect. Really it's all about setting personal challenges, then doing those solo or with a party daily.

    It's just a nice diversion really. I mean on point with a complex clicker game; there isn't always a point to it's existence, it's just something to do. As long as you don't seek depth in story or open world exploration, and aren't looking for it to be the end all be all MMO, it's not bad.

    Problem is I have to many games allready. Dont really need "diversion" game.



  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited November 2021
    The pissy lad above is right about one thing (or maybe more, htf should I know), that is Abyss Raiding.

    This game is an ARPG, but don't confuse the end game with Diablo 3 or Path of Exile; while there's a bit of strategy involved in those titles too, but that's just about how to zerg and fast kill everything, while Lost Ark offers complicated 16-man raiding and boss fights. 

    Here's an example: 


    I do understand that this game isn't for everyone, maybe some people would prefer D3 and hate this, I am just pointing out the difference. 

    Here's another raid with different phases: 



    Don't forget Kouku-Saton






    ConstantineMerus
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    edited November 2021
    People claiming it's a generic ARPG have no freaking clue what they are talking about.  

    Don't like the art style?  Fine
    Don't like the MMO aspects? Fine
    Don't like the isometric combat? Fine

    But at least understand the genre of ARPGs before claiming it's generic.  Check out Devilian and Mu Legends if you want to see generic MMOARPGs.

    D4 will struggle to give you nearly as much to do and offer as many builds as Lost Ark does.
    ConstantineMerusSetzer
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited November 2021
    People claiming it's a generic ARPG have no freaking clue what they are talking about.  

    Don't like the art style?  Fine
    Don't like the MMO aspects? Fine
    Don't like the isometric combat? Fine

    But at least understand the genre of ARPGs before claiming it's generic.  Check out Devilian and Mu Legends if you want to see generic MMOARPGs.

    D4 will struggle to give you nearly as much to do and offer as many builds as Lost Ark does.

    It picks up at 20-30, and the story starts to come together a bit more, then when you get a house things start to look different. At 50 the world opens up. If all that was handed out at the start it would overwhelm you. I just found that out tonight after the castle battle, which was awesome. I'm not sure I want to continue now due to spoilers and knowing I have to do it all over again.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    Tiller said:
    People claiming it's a generic ARPG have no freaking clue what they are talking about.  

    Don't like the art style?  Fine
    Don't like the MMO aspects? Fine
    Don't like the isometric combat? Fine

    But at least understand the genre of ARPGs before claiming it's generic.  Check out Devilian and Mu Legends if you want to see generic MMOARPGs.

    D4 will struggle to give you nearly as much to do and offer as many builds as Lost Ark does.

    It picks up at 20-30, and the story starts to come together a bit more, then when you get a house things start to look different. At 50 the world opens up. If all that was handed out at the start it would overwhelm you. I just found that out tonight after the castle battle, which was awesome. I'm not sure I want to continue now due to spoilers and knowing I have to do it all over again.
    Yeah I've stopped as I know what class I'm going with and don't want to ruin the experience at launch.
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