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Chronicles of Elyria Dev Soulbound Studios May Soon Run Out Of Money | MMORPG.com

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Right.  Simply looking at his promises, his budget, his team size, and his timeline should have raised huge flashing red flags.

    Then he claimed this was possible because SpatialOS was going to be “the fabric the game would be built on”.  And subsequently dropped SpatialOS… and said he was going to recreate it with his team.  

    Somehow he got people to pay millions of dollars (many multiples more than his Kickstarter goal) as the years rolled by and milestone after milestone was missed.

    I still say his greatest asset was his Psychology degree.  
    I wish I still had his list of 150 or so features, probably more than what Star Citizen promised, and in greater depth and complexity than any previous game before.

    Remember the biomes?  Actually spent months on the underground water modeling to get it just right.

    Never actually got coded though which was the case for all his features.


    Iselin

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    Kyleran said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Right.  Simply looking at his promises, his budget, his team size, and his timeline should have raised huge flashing red flags.

    Then he claimed this was possible because SpatialOS was going to be “the fabric the game would be built on”.  And subsequently dropped SpatialOS… and said he was going to recreate it with his team.  

    Somehow he got people to pay millions of dollars (many multiples more than his Kickstarter goal) as the years rolled by and milestone after milestone was missed.

    I still say his greatest asset was his Psychology degree.  
    I wish I still had his list of 150 or so features, probably more than what Star Citizen promised, and in greater depth and complexity than any previous game before.

    Remember the biomes?  Actually spent months on the underground water modeling to get it just right.

    Never actually got coded though which was the case for all his features.


    At least he is consistent.  Even this "State of Elyria" is mostly flow charts...


    Ale Production Chain

    Brown Bear Production Chain

    Copper Ingot Production Chain

    Flax Production Chain

    Oat Production Chain



    He even has resorted to posting VIDEOS of his flowcharts...

    https://cdn.chroniclesofelyria.com/articles/2022/July/production-workflows.mp4


    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    We used to call that "marketecture", when marketing tries to design something and pretend it is real.
    Slapshot1188KyleranUngoodScotQuizzical

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Kyleran said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Right.  Simply looking at his promises, his budget, his team size, and his timeline should have raised huge flashing red flags.

    Then he claimed this was possible because SpatialOS was going to be “the fabric the game would be built on”.  And subsequently dropped SpatialOS… and said he was going to recreate it with his team.  

    Somehow he got people to pay millions of dollars (many multiples more than his Kickstarter goal) as the years rolled by and milestone after milestone was missed.

    I still say his greatest asset was his Psychology degree.  
    I wish I still had his list of 150 or so features, probably more than what Star Citizen promised, and in greater depth and complexity than any previous game before.

    Remember the biomes?  Actually spent months on the underground water modeling to get it just right.

    Never actually got coded though which was the case for all his features.


    Like I already said above, he has always been good at talking the talk and convinced many, some who should have known better, to give him money based on his grandiose ideas.

    He obviously though has no clue how to actually walk the walk and unless he's just a cynical con man, is totally deluded about his unproven game direction capabilities.

    He's a developer giant but only in his own mind.

    I also have to wonder how anyone these days, after all the failures to deliver and legit questions about his self-serving lies, can report on his latest mouth opening as if there might be truth to it.

    There really should be limits to always trying to do a non-editorial article about certain things and certain people. All it does is amplify their dodgy messaging and does not serve any readers well.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Amazon Game Studio could have made what COE was slated to become for less than what they spent on New World.

    And I think the Genre as a whole would have been better for it.
    Scot
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Amazon Game Studio could have made what COE was slated to become for less than what they spent on New World.

    And I think the Genre as a whole would have been better for it.
    No they couldn't. COE's plan was to include many times more different game mechanisms and features than what New World has.

    We have some game studios that try to do games where just about everything is possible, like Rockstar (GTA) and Bethesda (Elder Scrolls single-player games). But even those devs who have the experience and financing aren't trying to pull anything as ambitious as crowdfunded projects like CoE and Star Citizen try. 
    Slapshot1188Kyleran
     
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Amazon Game Studio could have made what COE was slated to become for less than what they spent on New World.

    And I think the Genre as a whole would have been better for it.
    No they couldn't. COE's plan was to include many times more different game mechanisms and features than what New World has.

    We have some game studios that try to do games where just about everything is possible, like Rockstar (GTA) and Bethesda (Elder Scrolls single-player games). But even those devs who have the experience and financing aren't trying to pull anything as ambitious as crowdfunded projects like CoE and Star Citizen try. 
    Absolutely.  Even with all the time and money spent on New World, what we got was a tiny fraction of the game complexity of what CoE was supposed to be. 
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Amazon Game Studio could have made what COE was slated to become for less than what they spent on New World.

    And I think the Genre as a whole would have been better for it.
    No they couldn't. COE's plan was to include many times more different game mechanisms and features than what New World has.

    We have some game studios that try to do games where just about everything is possible, like Rockstar (GTA) and Bethesda (Elder Scrolls single-player games). But even those devs who have the experience and financing aren't trying to pull anything as ambitious as crowdfunded projects like CoE and Star Citizen try. 
    Absolutely.  Even with all the time and money spent on New World, what we got was a tiny fraction of the game complexity of what CoE was supposed to be. 

    I suspect that we *got* all the CoE could have become -- words.  Meaningless words based on fanciful half ideas, spoken by a developer without a hint of the skills necessary to bring a game to fruition, but believed and supported by hoards of the gullible.

    It was doomed to failure, but moderately fun to watch if you like train wrecks.



    Slapshot1188KyleranBrainy

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    edited July 2022
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    If you were to develop a single idea from his pitch, none of those would be impossible.

    But as a whole, the budget for developing all of them together into a single game would have been hundreds of millions. And that's assuming a developer with the organization and experience to run one of the largest and most expensive game development projects in the world.
    Amazon Game Studio could have made what COE was slated to become for less than what they spent on New World.

    And I think the Genre as a whole would have been better for it.
    No they couldn't. COE's plan was to include many times more different game mechanisms and features than what New World has.

    We have some game studios that try to do games where just about everything is possible, like Rockstar (GTA) and Bethesda (Elder Scrolls single-player games). But even those devs who have the experience and financing aren't trying to pull anything as ambitious as crowdfunded projects like CoE and Star Citizen try. 
    I don't know the whole 150 list, that you seem to cling to, but I would bet most of those "features" were so insignificant or generic that a competent dev team could have pumped a each one out over weekends of heavy drinking and partying, and still got the game done in 3 years.

    With that said, AGS devs, when it came to New World, were bound and determined to make every single fuck up they could on their own, ensuring to make every single mistake that was made in the past, and bound and determined to not learn a damn thing from any other game that had similar features to New World.

    Given that level of hardheaded dumbfuckery of the dev team, I legit, think they would have had far more success, and been overall better off just trying something really out of left field like CoE.

    That way, all their screw ups they were so hell bent to make all on their own, could at least been explained away by them trying something new, as opposed to appearing as one of the most train wreck AAA dev teams I have seen.

    We all know if they were trying to do New World with Crowd Funding, they would have faired no better then any of the other dumpster fires we have seen, and I bet even worse than most.

    So since they had damn near endless money, with no chance of failure, they should have done something, that would set them apart.

    and lets be honest, New World, was never going to be that game, CoE could have been.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MazenealMazeneal Member UncommonPosts: 169
    L M F A O......so Caspian's attempt to not get sued into non-existence isn't panning out, ehh!? Consider me shocked..../chuckle

    Also @Deathkon1 "Could have been a good parkour game had he released an actual copy of what his progress actually was but then again he isn't dumb enough to do that heh"

    What does this even mean? From where do you get this idea from? From the tech demos, from his mouth? Like, there is nothing to point at that would actually infer to this ever being a possibility outside of initial hype. I mean specifically the build he did let people have at vs the tech demo of the parkour mechanics vs why would you believe anything this fool said past the build that they did let people into?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    Whether a game idea is doable for a given developer depends both on the game idea and also on the developer.

    Also, for a game to be good requires not merely that it have a lot of mechanics, but that they interact with each other well.  If there are four ways that gear gets created and one is so far superior to the other three as to make them superfluous, then are those other three really part of the game?  The complexity of making n things work well together grows faster than linearly in n.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    Whether a game idea is doable for a given developer depends both on the game idea and also on the developer.

    Also, for a game to be good requires not merely that it have a lot of mechanics, but that they interact with each other well.  If there are four ways that gear gets created and one is so far superior to the other three as to make them superfluous, then are those other three really part of the game?  The complexity of making n things work well together grows faster than linearly in n.
    I totally get you with this point.

    But, My point still stands regardless.

    In the hand of the right team, this could have been a epic genre changing game... it's really annoying, because I would go so far as to wager that a lot of games going forward will not use any "unique" features that were talked about in CoE, because of the bad rep they will have, being related to that dumpsterfire.
    Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • ashiru_1978ashiru_1978 Member RarePosts: 818

    rioha said:

    If Caspian askith we giveth



    Casabian - Rewired
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    The absolute worst part of this, is that this game idea was fucking epic.

    And ended up being a epic dumpster fire... so sad. I mean, I am sure, that above and beyond the loss of money, I would wager some gamers would want to beat Caspian with a wet chicken till it cooked his left buttcheek just for killing their dreams of what this game could have been.
    You refer to what could have been, but perhaps it couldn't have been.  Competent game developers scale back their promises to be something that they can actually deliver.  That involves eschewing a lot of things that would be really great if someone could actually make them work on the basis that they're too hard to implement.
    That was one of the things about CoE, that I think was the most insidious of what was put out.

    Nothing was truly "Out of Scope" for a competent developer, in fact a lot of features were already in existence in other games.

    To use an Example. Aging. This was a very common feature in Muds, where your character had an age, and it kept growing older. So this was not an out of scope concept, that a character would grow old and even die, in fact this sounds very doable. So nothing about this feature sends up a red flag, in fact, it sounds pretty cool all things said and done.

    Always Active in game. EQ1, had players turn into NPC's upon "Disconnect" for around 5 min or so, so that a player's character would gain AI actions and responses, while crude, that meant that if you DC'ed, your character would continue to attack and even cast some class appropriate spells (regardless if those spells were memorized by your character or not). So just extending this time frame with a slightly better AI, to make you on par to a generic NPC, does not seem all that complex, all things said and done, when this kind of thing was implemented in MMO's back in 2001.

    With the idea of population, BDO, is full to the gills of AFK players running scripts, so player load should be a non-issue. If they front ended it, like they talked about players being able to make their own scripts, even better.

    Being able to design your own stuff, Second Life already does this, Project Entopia I think also does this, not to mention games like Trove do this to an extent, so.. again. Not something that would be OMG, this is so new wave, it's just something that has been lacking in other MMO's for, IMHO, no good reason. But this kind of thing already exists, the tech is there, so it's just a matter of putting it in, in way that would work for the game world.

    I mean, even the Kingship, where players would be playing some kind of Fantasy MMO, Minecraft style game, is not something we have never seen before, ergo, Minecraft, even Trove offers this to an extent with Club Worlds, so again, this was not some feature list where anyone that played these other games would be going "Oh you can't do that, it can't happen"

    I mean, most of what he was pitching, you could find working in other games already.. that were made in some cases, on a smaller budget., so ideally, when you looked at his pitch, nothing was really out of the realm of possibility.

    So it was in fact feasible that this game could have been made, maybe not for 10 million, but, possible none the less.

    Of course that would have required a competent team and not the sack of shit that conned people into investing into this dumpster fire, obviously.
    Whether a game idea is doable for a given developer depends both on the game idea and also on the developer.

    Also, for a game to be good requires not merely that it have a lot of mechanics, but that they interact with each other well.  If there are four ways that gear gets created and one is so far superior to the other three as to make them superfluous, then are those other three really part of the game?  The complexity of making n things work well together grows faster than linearly in n.
    I totally get you with this point.

    But, My point still stands regardless.

    In the hand of the right team, this could have been a epic genre changing game... it's really annoying, because I would go so far as to wager that a lot of games going forward will not use any "unique" features that were talked about in CoE, because of the bad rep they will have, being related to that dumpsterfire.
    I think though, some of what he proposed was outside the realm of practicality, especially when first proposed and perhaps even today's.

    He promised 100K players per regional server, which spatial IOS was all going to make possible.

    Hasn't been done before, no one seems to be even trying to do the same to date, EVE is the only company to even come close and they have a very unique circumstance.

    Underground water modeling? Besides being rather useless from a gamers perspective, just another example of the many crazy arse ideas this game had on paper....

    Slapshot1188

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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