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Am I just Old School?
Lt.Deadend
Member Posts: 325
yes Im a player Killer (PK) (AntiPK) (pirate) (Anti pirate) (Thief) (Griefer) what ever suits me for the times and what ever the server needs.but in the end Ill be driving my sword or polearm into someones head.!
But what do I play? do I keep waiting for games like darkfall? am i destend to just play eve-online and FPS games for the rest of my life? like wtf WTF wheres the dam good nasty games that UO set the standers for.
Yes im 29 and I started my MMO sickness on Ultima online,I got my PC just to play that crazy game and my playstation went into the garbage the same day. that was 1998.(I was one hell of a Tekken player 8000 fights)
UO took me into 2001 where i stoped playing,we all know the 100 reasons why.from there I put time into EQ and AO the 2 other main games of the time it seem'd,but the lvl systems and lack of freedom and controlled pvp made me sick and didnt play long,.i was vary much acustomed to UO.
Next was DAOC,only spent a week there I hatted the ladder system of monsters that got picked for me to fight and the weapons my class was forced to use,.Yukk,.blaaa (archery was dam cool tho)
Next was SWG, was a good game i was able to forget about my freedom i had in ultima an injoy SWG for a short time,But I stacked all my defences and won allmost every duel with a fencer or pistol BH,till the crazy ubber loot items flooded the game,.and the players skills went out the window,I left befor the combat change.
since then I swear iv played everything,Sure shadowbane has a ton of freedom ,. but i cant play a game with controlls that horrible,.I did spend a month there tho.
WoW againe has to much of a controlled pvp system with a nasty treadmill lvl grind and no looting,.I hate it and still confused as to why so many play it.
I have played Guildwars to death(vary awsome pvp game) but thats all it is,.Sure i farmed and got in shit for it.I allso unlocked all the skills and items,just cant log in anymore,.blaa.
so when is a game company going to screw there heads back on and make a Game like Ultima online,.SWG still had a ton of awsome aspects that no other game had befor,if SWG had stealing and killing out side of towns it would have replaced UO.
AM i just old school? should i just stick to eve and FPS games and stop looking?
whats with all the controlled pvp no looting candy land level grinding BS out there,.I dont play to make freinds hold hands and go monster hunting,. I play to KILL players, I like to grief the griefers,Man I loved killing newb pk in ultima online.(I never kill helpless players its no challange)
It seems with out the griefing, stealing, killing, and no rules out side of towns, and the fear of risking it all., the games have all become the same cookie cutting crap and It looks like the end.some one needs to grow some balls and make a new UO or SWG with UO type of rules.
dam didnt meen to type that much,and if you did read it all,. do you feel your in the same boat as me?
Comments
A wonderfully informative, semi-literate post that illuminates why the anti-social griefer-ganker players of the old UO days should, as penance, wander in the outer darkness forever seeking and never finding another MMORPG which they can destroy with their abusive game-playing.
~ Ancient Membership ~
I know they don't have graphics... but, have you ever thought of playing a pure pkill MUD? Just until something that satisfies your gaming needs comes out?
Most of my best pkilling days came from MUDs. Granted it can be a huge chore finding a good one that isn't run by power hungry Imms or completely twarted balance. There are good ones out there though.
Just a thought. I know they are not everyone's cup of tea.
Flame if ya want,.
I typed it fast and I dont really care to make it perfect,.With that said Im someone you would depend on and be happy to have around in a game like that,In UO I never killed a crafter I didnt know.Or use lame tactics and jump someone low on HP when fighting mobs.
I dont know where you stand in MMO's but with that type of comment you will probly never understand,.and you belong in games like WOW,.there perfect for you.
I still play Free UO shards from time to time,.But eve-online seems to keep me happy for now,.just miss the medievil.and the fear of losing it all,.UO allso had more RPing then any other game iv seen,.It had players Rping alot more in a rash nasty rule set like that.players that didnt know each other would unite,just to stay alive. Iv had more hunting freinds in UO then any other game.
Its people like you that give the illusion that PvP players are "barbaric" and "evil." Its people like you that flood these forums with false information and bad flaming. Its people like you that deserve to have a shovel smacked on your head and soap washed in your mouth. And then bitch slapped on the face for good measure. In other words, shut the f*** up.
The thing that really tickes me off is the fact that many ignorant people think that old school PVP'rs gank people for the enjoyment of the pain on the other end it brings. Well ya know what? Not all of them do. In fact, thats probably the minority. Ive played on both old school UO (VERY long time ago) and AC darktide. I can say that the "PVP" today is not the same as yesterday, its very controlled and very rigid with stiff class systems. I agree with the OP 100% and can relate to what hes feeling. And I dont get enjoyment from ganking people because I didnt do it often. Many people go on the FFA PvP servers becuase theyre bored of the controlled PvP and that they want something more exciting then dying and having no meaning for it. WoW Pvp? give me a break. You die and you become a ghost. Honor point system is bullshit. The FFA PVP servers gave me something exciting and an adrenaline rush. There were actually PENALTIES for dying. Gasp! Could it be? There are actually more people like us out there, but too much of them are afraid to speak out becuase of people like you. FFA pvp gives you freedom and it feels like a game, much of this shit out here feels like im playing some simulation of some sort. I want to have fun and thats what most PvP'rs out there want to have, but whats the fun if you kill the person you were fighting and you get some miniscule point tacked on that doesnt really matter? Get real here people, are you really having fun? No. Why are people quitting WoW now? Becuase they realize how much crap it really is.
Do us a favor and wander the "outer darkness" you speak of, I think it may do you some good.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Ah, I missed the part where you said you're playing EVE atm. I find it hard to believe, I've played ALOT of MMOs but never got into UO. I started a character on there, but never got anywhere. Perhaps it was because I played EQ first and at that time EQ graphics where the shit.
Lt Deadend -
I understand ya, trust me I do. MMOs sadly have progressed into a super stream-lined medium where millions will like them and nobody's "wittle feelers will get hurt" if they get killed and/or looted.
First it was taking away the pking.
Then grandmas and little sissy boys feelers were hurt cuz they were camping bandits in the same spot for two hours and a higher level came and took their wittle spot away. They couldnt possibly have just left and found one the other 7 million spots to camp, but instead cried and cried and cried at that meanie-head that took over their spot. The meanie-head just laughed and told the sissy boys to take the kills they could or leave. They cried some more....
And now we have all this BS instanced crap so noone can ever have a kill stolen again. Yay! Instances. Like GW and DDO and all the other gay crap.
But surely Deadend ya not gonna tell me that you never, ever played Asherons Call on the Darktide server. If you haven't, you truly missed one of the best pvp mmo experiences ever. It's still around and populations are 1/100th what they used to be... its downloadable with 30 days free for $20 at www.direct2drive.com Darktide server is what ya want. (If you never played it) - But surely u have.
MMOs today are less about the true game and more about the money. I guess u can't blame the companies for that just as its understandable why Toby Keith or Tim McGraw puts out all this pop music today to attract millions of fans rather then playing real hardcore country and only making a fraction of the money. It's really no different. But that leaves the hardcore mmo fans that prefer things like PvP, loot loss, and a stringing penalty for dying stranded in a sea of gimped out, stream-lined garbage that we just shake our heads at. And no-one understands us. They don't understand we like something called "challenge" in our game. Instead they blindly and wildly accuse us of only being griefers. Uh huh. What ever ya damn Nancy boys. Go play WoW and group up with Grandma and little 5 year Sean and go kill some turkeys or somethin eh?
- Zaxx
*****
Ill just try to reply to all post's in one here,.
Full pvp servers lose that "classic feel" the game offers,dont see much crafting or non pvp players and the servers are just to put it short,. Inbalanced.
Never did try FFX my freind said dont waist your time its not for us.
To be honest I love a thick crafting system so a game needs that to,theres alot more reasons i dont play alot of games,.its not just the no looting no stealing no pking I miss.
I allso cant stand class restrictions I feel a massive loss of freedom there to.
allso cant have a game like UO where there's Levels that set some players way to far apart from others,.the 1 hitting and newbie ganking make for a horrible game,and some games suffer heavy from it.or,.zzzzz have a ton of restrictions.
the other mistake is no repercution of killing,it allso makes for a horrible game inviroment.
Nothing is more frustrating then having some ass stand right on top of me and kill all the mobs befor i can.In a game where freedom makes its own laws, I would go back to town and tailor myself to kill him, thats the type of stuff i miss,.AND YOU CAN BE DAMED SURE i WOULD GRIEF THAT GUY TILL HE NEVER COMES BACK.and i would make a day out of it and kill him and all his alts every time i see him.
the thing the non pvpers or Anti player killers dont understand is ,. the games now offer more griefing then befor,and theres nothing you can do about it,the games are to restricted to take your own actions.
I remember my days on the PVP MUDs, and I still miss the legitimate combat that I think is missing from most MMOs. Right now, I just play MxO just out of my own interest for the Matrix series, but I still wished it had more pvp orientated gameplay, just to give it the feeling of 'old school' pvp. ^__^
-- Bridget
But I find it REALLY sad when a player spends half of their playtime chasing another player simply because they have personal issues with them.
Tried Eve Online yet ?
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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what we need is a MMO that would attract some FPS players. I was talking to this kid yesterday who plays Ghost Recon (among other things). He likes to compete. He likes to kill. I was trying to turn him onto some MMOs, but the only games I think would get him sucked in are 5+ years old. The FPS market is still much larger than the MMO market. Those players LOVE twitch combat, and they LOVE to fight.
Looking at the current market, I see game companies trieing to cash in on themes more than good game play. We now have DDO, LoTR, Warhammer, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online, and Age of Conan. These companies are using brand names to try to reel in some of the current WoW market. The MMO genre is experiencing what rock music had to go through after the US government assasinated Buddy Holly, Richie Valence and the Big Bopper; incarcerated Chuck Berry; humiliated Jerry Lee Lewis; and drafted Elvis. The genre is being commercialized, homogenized, sterilized, and neutered. We can look at a few years of worthless crap until the WoW customer base gets bored and demands something more challenging.
Which FF Character Are You?
Just to chime in here (and show my age) Old School is rpgs with a point. A few points before I begin.
1) I like PvP. I think it is the best part of a good mmog.
2) I hate instanced anything. Player-driven plot and quests are always better.
3) Crafting and a sensible in-game economy are essential to 1) and 2)
Having said that, I think PvP is also the most abused system in any mmog that has it. When people say "Unrestricted PvP" they usually mean anyone can kill anyone at any time with no consequences beyond revenge by the victim. That is a game killer. It attracts the wrong kind of people. Contrary to popular belief not ALL gaming styles are valid or desired. Beyond that, literal unrestricted PvP doesn't make sense. The NPCs should react to what the players do in a rational (or at least apparently rational) manner. Simply put, if you kill someone, their friends will be upset, and merchants are friends to everyone, so if you kill anyone, merchants should stop liking you.
Here's something I have NEVER seen in any mmog that would fix the unrestricted PvP situation perfectly. There has got to be something between not being able to kill the bozo who's bugging you and slaying him and robbing him of everything of value. Why not make killing a player outside of a guild war or self-defense a sin in the eyes of the NPCs, so that anyone who does it will probably be shunned by most townsfolk for the forseeable future, and make looting anything but monsters or enemies in a guild war, just slightly less of a sin, but allow some other form of non-lethal combat (like fistfighting, or non-lethal duels) I've never seen a game that does this. If it is true that you will only murder another character if they are doing something like stealing your kills or looting them, then you have a way to do that. You don't have any reason to loot them. If they fight back with lethal force, then you can take the gloves off too with no consequences, and they risk a lot more than you. However, if your intention is being a highwayman or an assasin, then you are allying yourself with the criminal element of society and should be treated as such. It's got nothing to do with good and evil. It is only reasonable. It makes sense. Merchants prefer to deal with people who don't kill potentiel clientelle, and towns like to attract business. Murderers and thieves are their natural enemies because they chase away customers. They would be doing everything they could to remove that element from not only inside the town, but along the routes into the town as well. When was the last game where the town guard patrolled the roads in the wilderness. How silly is it for a city guard to completely ignore a fight going on right next to the town simply becasuse it's on the other side of the invisible line that separates safe zones from PvP zones? No safe zones. You want to start a fight, fine. You should be looking out for the guards, not for where the boundaries to some zone are.
One last thing about fps. Combat should be fps. Click and wait combat is a holdover from the single player, turn-based computer rpgs. It does not make sense in a real-time multi-player game. Sure some people will find their fps skills aren't up to snuff, and I feel sorry for them, but no one tries to cripple Halo because some people who want to play are no good at fps games. Let's be reasonable. A mmorpg should have plenty to do in it besides fighting, but combat should require some player skill. If you're going to partake of it, you should have that skill or practice to get it. Otherwise, it's not action. It's just something you can do while you're getting a cup of coffee. That's not to say that your character skill or items shouldn't matter. It should, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor. Being the best swordsman in the game should be a matter of being able to win a battle, with any sword, against any opponent, not stack your buffs just right or have the best uber-weapon in the game. In any fps game, everyone likes to have a weapon that can take down walls and destroy dozens of bad guys at once, but what ultimately matters is how well you use the weapon, not how good the weapon is. Less emphasis on uber weapons and game buffs would solve a lot of problems we've had in previous games, and look.. I'm sorry if fighting in a mmorpg means you have to have fps talent, but if that was unfair, then there shouldn't be any twitch games out there, because then they're all unfair.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
if only they'd have come out with that sequel to uo - uxo, uox, whatever it was... AND made shards that were pre-carebear....
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Asheron's Call is exactly what you were guys are looking for in a PVP game too bad it's 5+ years old. In AC all of the projectiles were dodgable, and if you played on darktide(full pvp server) you could whoever you wanted(except NPC's of course). You could kill a guild member who pissed you off and the newb who doesn't stop asking for help. This meant of course at lower levels you had to stay away from big towns or risk being owned back to the lifestone and loosing your best piece of loot.
I'm a competitive FPS player and the combat system in AC is what kept me playing that game for 3-4 years. I only stopped because the people i played with for my whole life on DT had quit. In AC when you you engaged in a 1v1(no duels everything is player controlled) it actually took skill to win. Especially in a mage 1v1 where you had to try and cast your spell and dodge the other mages spell without getting hit. Another great thing about AC was the political system created by the players and the players only, there were no factions when you first got in the game. The players created factions of good guys and bad guys. There were guilds who RPK'd(random player killed) and then there were anti-pks they were players who protected noobs and other anti-pks from RPKers. It made for some nice battles over territory too. When a guild wanted a town or a dungeon they'd have to raid it(no raid parties or anything, you had to organize this stuff amongst yourselves). PVP was AC's greatest feature.
AC is over 5 years old now and it's graphics are outdated but it's PVP system is the best to date. I've tried DAoC, AO and WoW all of which were extremely boring to me especially in the PVP aspect. In WoW its completely based off of your gear. Diablo 2 PVP took more skill than WoW.
(I forgot to mention the loot system for PVP. When you killed someone you could loot roughly 10-12 of their most valuable items at high levels. Now this is based purely on monetary value and not actual value so players carred DI's(Death Items) to cover all of their good gear so when they died the % of them dropping their actual gear was near 0. They were also weapons/suits of armor that were no drop on death but they were inferior to looted gear. They were good for a backup suit/weapon though.)
just as a sidenote. everyone's seen the funeral wow video, made by a bunch of degenerate dung-eating freaks, right?
that would NEVER happen on a uo shard. the real uo, before this carebear crap.
why?
because guilds would hunt you down and kill you for the next 6 months.
no biggie what CAN they do? well, in the good old uo, they could rotate campers at all of you (and your guild's) homes for oooo the next literal 6 months. they could kill you and all your friends every time you showed your face and loot you for everything you're carrying. they could hang out by your malls and remind people of the trash you are and instead send those folks to other malls which are offering stuff way cheaper than your vendors. and you could complain to the gms; who also play the game (but on shards that they don't gm on). the gms that run events every now and again in the game. the ones that would probably consider the bad taste and sick comments you put in your video and hold it against you. heck, in uo, if you had as many pissed off people as there are in wow right now; the gms would see 30 guilds camping you and might just throw you into the jail for a month or two.
but like i said, that's on a real pvp game. not some fruity carebear "i can't lose nuffin and ZOMGWTFBBQ i have to run back to my body when i die, losing valuable time!!@!!@#oneoneone!@1231223123122221111"
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
If your looking for a FFA PvP game that also attracts non PvP and crafting players then I don't think you will see it. Lots of the non PvP players don't enjoy those type of games because it isn't fun for them to get randomly killed, it's not what they are looking for in a game so they will play the games that don't inflict someone elses idea of fun on them.
Darkfall will be kinda what you are looking for but is most likely not going to draw in many of the PvE or crafting crowds because since UOs days they now have the choice to stick to games that don't force other peoples fun onto them.
Also attitudes like 'maybe SOME people should stick to the carebear little girl games like wow, and leave real pvp to people that have the heart to risk losing all their uber goodies.' do not encourage us to talk to let alone play the same game as you.
If your looking for a FFA PvP game that also attracts non PvP and crafting players then I don't think you will see it. Lots of the non PvP players don't enjoy those type of games because it isn't fun for them to get randomly killed, it's not what they are looking for in a game so they will play the games that don't inflict someone elses idea of fun on them.
Darkfall will be kinda what you are looking for but is most likely not going to draw in many of the PvE or crafting crowds because since UOs days they now have the choice to stick to games that don't force other peoples fun onto them.
Also attitudes like 'maybe SOME people should stick to the carebear little girl games like wow, and leave real pvp to people that have the heart to risk losing all their uber goodies.' do not encourage us to talk to let alone play the same game as you.
and maybe some people should learn to read...
the carebear comment was in DIRECT response to:
Originally posted by SpiritofGame
A wonderfully informative, semi-literate post that illuminates why
the anti-social griefer-ganker players of the old UO days should, as
penance, wander in the outer darkness forever seeking and never finding
another MMORPG which they can destroy with their abusive game-playing.
so it's ok for him to wish people to be banned to outer darkness, because that promotes people talking and having other ideas?
take your sign and go hang out on illidan with your alliance lords.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
No his attitude isn't any better but two wrongs don't make a right and the type of post you did is one that commonly comes up from PvPers without even being retaliation so I used it as an example for the OP.
I also don't play WoW which I assume that 'illidan with your alliance lords' comment comes from.