It is called opinion media. That is all news is now days so why would internet sites no have opinion media in them too. I have not problem with what he said. If you are going to bash a game before you have tried it because of what you read on paper you are a snob. Snob is defined as one who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect. If you believe that F2P, item shops, P2P, FPS all are the destruction of games or are the only games of value then you are a snob. If that offends you then maybe you should try a game and come back with real reasons about why that individual game model sucks before instantly writing off a game and its community as the destroyers of the world. It is the age old wine vs. beer drinkers adage. Each group believing themselves better than the other group. When infact if that were true one or the other would have been out of business long ago.
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks. Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
Where was the rage and angst at companies raising the prices from $9.99 to $14.99 as the norm...that was just good business and not greed? When that was allowed and people kept paying why not put in item shops. Sorry but the whining and gripping about greed rings pretty hollow because as with the sub fee rise people will get use to it and the anger will stop.
I like some of the author's points. Personally, i think, the general ideas could have been portrayed in two paragraphs. Of course, the "over grade 9 level writing" was to mean something. As if the persons reading grade level was linked in anyway with real IQ. Although, I do find it delightful to see the deluded posts regarding the article.
Why exactly is it snobbish to dislike being ripped off by a gaming company? Sometimes I wonder about you people who will defend shady business practices, makes me feel you have an invested interest in that type of business and aren't worried at all about ethics.
You have already made up your mind that F2P games all are designed to rip off customers and can be nothing other than that.
You have already made up your mind that F2P is a shady business practice and can be nothing other than that.
You have already made up your mind that if someone says anything positive about F2P that they have monetary interests in it and are unethical people.
It's entirely possible that you feel the only preople who play F2P are people who just want to buy their way past others or people who don't know they are being fleeced.
I'm almost certain that you feel you are speaking from a position of solid knowledge of the business model.
Some say that could possibly be, in some circles, a slight bit towards what one might consider to be sort of close to what the dictionary - and I'm not saying the dictionary is infallible here - may define as Snobbish .
When the pot is black, it really is black, not some other rosy tinted color. Pleae name one single F2P MMO that doesn't try to make more than 15$ bucks a month and I will stand corrected for that ONE exception, but the rule stands.
It is called opinion media. That is all news is now days so why would internet sites no have opinion media in them too. I have not problem with what he said. If you are going to bash a game before you have tried it because of what you read on paper you are a snob. Snob is defined as one who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect. If you believe that F2P, item shops, P2P, FPS all are the destruction of games or are the only games of value then you are a snob. If that offends you then maybe you should try a game and come back with real reasons about why that individual game model sucks before instantly writing off a game and its community as the destroyers of the world. It is the age old wine vs. beer drinkers adage. Each group believing themselves better than the other group. When infact if that were true one or the other would have been out of business long ago.
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks.
Belittling to a writer submitting articles to a public forum to interact with said fourm? I guess all the other staffers here at MMORPG enjoy belittling themselves with awesome discourse with members on this site on a very regular basis. If Mr. Aihoshi does believe it is belittling himself to interact with his audience, then that simply lends credence to what others have said here about his attitude.
If there is angst on this board towards Mr. Aihoshi, it must be the posters fault right? It couldn't have anything to do with his consistently inflammatory columns could it? Nah....
Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion.
Yes, sources are a problem with Mr. Aihoshi as well. They are usually unnamed, unverifiable, and anonymous. But that doesn't stop Mr Aihoshi from building upon such a faltering foundation to make his statements about how impeccable the F2P model is and how those of us that don't see it his way are "in denial", or "liars", or "snobs".
Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
He is hired to write articles about F2P MMO's. He is not, I am certain, hired to insult on a regular basis a broad part of the members here at MMORPG. I have no problem with someone stating a counter opinion and I, in fact welcome it, but if you're going to insult me, and act as though you are superior because of your viewpoint then expect to get some grief in return.
Do you really believe this paragraph you just typed or are you playing devils advocate because I have a hard time believing anyone could believe this tripe if they've read more than one of Mr. Aihoshi's articles.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
It is called opinion media. That is all news is now days so why would internet sites no have opinion media in them too. I have not problem with what he said. If you are going to bash a game before you have tried it because of what you read on paper you are a snob. Snob is defined as one who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect. If you believe that F2P, item shops, P2P, FPS all are the destruction of games or are the only games of value then you are a snob. If that offends you then maybe you should try a game and come back with real reasons about why that individual game model sucks before instantly writing off a game and its community as the destroyers of the world. It is the age old wine vs. beer drinkers adage. Each group believing themselves better than the other group. When infact if that were true one or the other would have been out of business long ago.
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks. Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
Exactly. All of the staff are hired to drive page view up. How they do it depends on their personality and interests.
This often manifests itself in reiterations of the old and increasingly tired "I can't compete unless I spend money" argument. So... what's your point? If you find certain games are like that and it doesn't sit right with you, simply avoid them. But honestly, does doing so mean you're a better gamer, or a smarter one? Or does it make you an MMOG snob?
I'm rather surprised by this sentiment. Implying that those who avoid F2P games because they dislike Item shops and/or RMT do not have a valid view is a rather poor argument. Furthermore, implying that said people are snobs for having this view is going too far.
Disliking Item Shops and RMT, preferring to have time spent rather than money spent matter for ingame advancement, is simply that, preference. It's no different than the age old PvP versus PvE debate. Some people simply prefer one over the other. And similarly, like the PvP versus PvE debate, there are those on each side of the fence that feel their way is the superior way to play.
To answer your question of, "But honestly, does doing so mean you're a better gamer, or a smarter one?", it again depends on perception.
That said however, there are many scenarios where to obtain some achievement within a game, it requires a level of commitment and skill not possible by everyone. Meaning, it can only be obtained by "more skilled and dedicated" gamers. if such accomplishments were purchasable within an item mall, then yes, I would argue that the players of said game that actually have the skill to achieve said goal are the "better" gamer than the one who would simply pull out his or her credit card to obtain the same or similar. Taking out your credit card does not equate to skill within the game, and that is why many people feel that it should not impact gameplay.
But again, it comes back to preference. Some people like being able to purchase ingame achievements, some people hate that it's even possible in a game. Me personally? I'll avoid games with item shops and RMT like a plague, which means pretty much any F2P games. I have tried F2P games in the past, but I could never tolerate the impact that item shops had on gameplay, especially considering that I simply don't want to pay extra just to stay competitive and therefore feel limited right out of the gate in those games. That's just my personal preference in what I find enjoyable in an MMO, and those who would label me as a snob for it actually makes them the elitist snob for attempting to invalidate my preference and opinion on the subject that in no way affects them.
Get this guy off this website, he is noticeably the worst contributor. I wouldn't want anything of his on my website, even if he paid me to put it up. This guy sucks almost as bad as the F2P games that he thinks are so amazingly good. Have you played Mass Effect 2 recently, Richard? How about Heavy Rain?
THOSE are good games. It will be very long before an MMO can reach anywhere near that level.
Or we can stick to the usual snobs we come across on here who genreally just think that anything that does not sit well with them is a waste of time and a detrement to the mmo genre (regardless of how many more fans it brings in). This article actually touches on why I only visit mmorpg once a week now as opposed to the every other day I used to, this entire "it's my way or the highway" attitude of most has gone further than I'm willing.
A good example to me is AOC, I have a really big problem with a company that can release not one but two mmo's in the state that FC did with AO and AOC and I feel that they were dishonest to the detriment of the genre as a whole and while I think this and while I believe the community should have shunned them for the treatment we got I would never presume to go to the lengths some of these mmo snobs do with games like LOTRO,STO,WOW, and anything they don't play at the time constantly making up "facts" just to prove that we all should think as they do.
I for one am impressed now with what FC has done in satisfying the community they have left, and while I still think everything I thought about them was valid I also understand that what drives me doesn't really drive every mmo player out there and as such can accept that things won't always go the way I think they should and honstly I'm ok with that, in my opinion the more people disagree with me the better because it makes me that much more unique, let's all start thinking that way next time we are disappointed by SOE,Blizzard, Bioware or whoever else the next company to feel the wrath of the uninformed fan.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Get this guy off this website, he is noticeably the worst contributor. I wouldn't want anything of his on my website, even if he paid me to put it up. This guy sucks almost as bad as the F2P games that he thinks are so amazingly good. Have you played Mass Effect 2 recently, Richard? How about Heavy Rain?
THOSE are good games. It will be very long before an MMO can reach anywhere near that level.
Heh, and I was going to post about how I found author's F2P related concerns unrealistic... Now I won't. Turns out it's just me missing out the latest trends among "Cooler than thou" audience... Never would have expected such dynamics...
On the original topic, yes, overestimated statements are a trademark of MMO-addled community. What else is new?
Holy war on the topic of money investment vs time investment could probably be traced back to the holy crusades themselves if we had any data on relationship between knights. "He's only so strong because of his shiny armour! I'm 10 times better swordsman than he is!"
Personally I don't care if a person spent his month grinding to get to where he is, or spent that extra time working and used his extra funds to get where he is. Problems begin when the effort doesn't equal the result but that's a problem of entire human society and MMO case is just one of many. Humans always seek to cut corners. Whether its player scram, bot usage, and playing on an auction, or advertisement, cheap labour, and stock manipulation, it bears little difference. It's always about someone cutting a corner where someone else finds it inappropriate. Last time I checked no one defined a universal list of corners appropriate for cutting (aside from several religions defining it as none), so screw anyone with his personal list, humanity got what it deserved...
"If this thread is any indication, it seems a good portion of the MMORPG members are fed up with Mr. Aihoshi." The top of the page indicates 1,172,081 members. The handfull of snobs proving his point with their posts is hardly a good portion of the membership.
And in which other way can we measure this indication other than measuring the feedback from comments? These articles do not feature the "bump or bury" feature seen on screenshots or non-staff articles, or any other form of measuring such thing in an easier way.
But hey, at least the article was useful, you can now brand people snobs. I wonder what's the next bad word he is teaching his favorable followers next week or whatever week he decides to do this kind of indirect flaming-dedicated article again.
By all means let's use this thread as an indication. It indicates that a miniscule fraction of the members 'are fed up with Mr. Aioshi'.
While the supporters are representing by the truck-load, right?
lol
Talk about a failed spin attempt.
It's not an attempt to spin anything, I'm just pointing to the numbers. And the numbers don't lie: the VAST majority of this site's members could care less. Saying that anything other than a minuscule fraction of the members 'are fed up' is the real spin job.
What is the point of this article? Is it about free-to-play mmog snobs or is it about ignorance? I began reading the article with interest , hoping to hear a unique opinion on the supposed subject. Instead, the article seemed to weaken without making a point other than the obvious fact that people make statements with little or no merit. Then, the rug went out from under your theme and you started discussing the possibility of a misinformed opinion that people might have regarding the Chinese gaming market. What does possible ignorance about China have to do with free-to-play MMOG snobs? I get the ignorance theme, but the article's title is misleading, to say the least. I would like to see you write more about the topic of free-to-play MMOG snobs.
As for me, I will never say never to free-to-play games for one simple reason: They are free!
Sadly, I have yet to play a free-to-play game that is compelling enough for me to invest much time in. I would liken the MMO market to the current job market. Just as there are many applicants for every good job, there are many good games for every good player. A game really has to stand out and shine to be noticed, loved and played. A job applicant has to really stand out and shine to be noticed, hired and paid.
If a group of developers produce a quality game with excellent game-play, it will be played by many. Beyond that, the game really has to have a draw that keeps the players playing. It could be the combat, the story, the loot or the community, but it has have that certain something that makes players keep coming back to it.
This article goes against MMORPG.COM's Rules of Conduct.
So does this mean it's ok to reply in kind thoughts about the OP? I mean, letting this article fly is giving the green light to personal attacks, even if you are attacking a group of people.
Or do the Rules of Conduct not apply to a select few?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
This article goes against MMORPG.COM's Rules of Conduct.
So does this mean it's ok to reply in kind thoughts about the OP? I mean, letting this article fly is giving the green light to personal attacks, even if you are attacking a group of people.
Or do the Rules of Conduct not apply to a select few?
Of course it's not.
It is however, quite worse when it is coming from someone who is supposed to be a professional, because it is extremely unprofessional to insult swaths or people for their personal preference that in no way directly affects others.
It would be akin to writing an article stating that all PvE'ers are skill-less carebears because they don't PvP. Sure you might have some fringe readers that would agree with such generalized and negative sentiment, but the majority of people would disagree, and lose respect for the writer and by association the publisher of such a view because it is a baseless statement. Mr. Aihoshi's latest article has done just that.
Where was the rage and angst at companies raising the prices from $9.99 to $14.99 as the norm...that was just good business and not greed? When that was allowed and people kept paying why not put in item shops. Sorry but the whining and gripping about greed rings pretty hollow because as with the sub fee rise people will get use to it and the anger will stop.
Statements like this are always funny, are you also mad that stamps now cost twice as much as they did 15 years ago?
Inflation determines cost, $15 in 2010 dollar worth is cheaper then $10 in 1999 dollar value. So no I'm not at all angry about the price being $15.
Not to mention even if your only job is at McDonalds you can afford a monthly MMO sub, it's not like it puts a big dent in the wallet.
I've played hundreds of F2P mmorpgs. So many I've lost count. You know why? Because I could never bring myself to play them for more than a couple of days. They were all terrible, and they haven't stopped being terrible.
And you know what? It's not even because of the things that can be negated by spending money at the item malls- I mean, yeah the exp rates are pretty shit and it does make it more boring... but I've yet to see an F2P game that looks well made... Massive open areas of identical mobs, generic everything, nobody talks or wants to group, quests always seem to dry up really quickly- as if it matters regardless, the quest text is always terrible, none of it ever seems to have much plot (except for Allods which I recently tried, but outside of the instanced starting zone it was the same). The animations are often terrible (runes of magic, allods, perfect world) I guess that's because they can't be seen in screen shots, and it's hard to tell in low-quality Youtube videos.
I'm still trying F2P mmorpgs but I can honestly say I've never enjoyed one- I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be good, just that in practice, they're not.
Guild Wars offers better quality then many P2P games. The pvp system is the best thought out that Ive encountered in MMO's. It might lack quantity, but the quality is there.
Ryzom is also a gem. Its one of the few MMO's I know where the world feels alive and is more then just pretty. Predators stalk herds and attack animals that stray away. They will do the same with your toon. Herds also travel slowly over large distances. One of the few sandbox MMO's left.
Apparently many players think that P2P MMO will guarantee some degree of quality. But the last few years we've seen company after company trying to make fast bucks on boxsales and lifetime subs and then release a half assed game that only few players find interesting enough to stay subscribed to. One company that has a major ip even asks Sub+item mall for a game that isnt even half finished.
I also agree with the writer about the MMO market. Its getting silly that some players still act as if Asia only has goldfarmers that play MMO's. Its also not only the MMO market which is slowly shifting to the east.
So now I am a snob because I prefer monthly payments instead of item malls, that due to my competitive style of gameplay would cost me hundreds of dollars? Richard Aihoshi, your advocacy for F2P is reaching idiotic proportions, and this is the least offensive comment I can throw your way right now. Are you that shallow? As a regular reader of the MMORPG columnists, right now I feel really insulted and disenchanted.
I felt this article was very childish and for a site that is trying to become more positive this isn't the kind of article you want to be putting your name behind. I love DDO and Guildwars and I also love Vanguard and Fallen Earth. I have no problems with high quality F2P.....I have just found the majority that I have tried have been lacking in many aspects. If F2P is the way of the future then I am fine with it as long as the games are of quality and not just shallow grindfests.
Playing: Fallen Earth Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2 and Secret World
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What a douche article. I will NEVER EVER EVER play a game with an item mall of any kind.
If that means that I have to quit the genre, then so be it. I have already quit city of heroes, EQ2 (because of the card game), and WOW (because of the pet).
For me its the principle. While not a competitive person I do view MMO's (even completely PvE Ones) as being on a certain level a competitive experience. I play the game to attain things, not to buy things to have.
I generally don't sign up to forums, I just read them to see what players think of certain games. I consider myself a normal and reasonable person.
HOWEVER, this article is offensive to even the most casual of gamers. How a website could support such offensive material is beyond me. I actually signed in to make a post here, thats how much it bothers me.
Since we're taking pot shots at one another, I'm starting to wonder when MMORPG.COM is going to start charging it's forum members micro-fee's for posting on these forums.....???
If that happened........well...........i guess i'd have to stop visiting the site all together, since I'm a SNOB.
Bad timing for this article. I can assume the massive Allods debacle has been linked numerous times already. I think after that most people will safely say they'll never play a F2P MMO. It's not snobbery, the model simply doesn't work to the advantage of anyone but those trying to take your money.
Well, Guild Wars and Ryzom are free to play too. Guild Wars offers better quality then many P2P games. The pvp system is the best thought out that Ive encountered in MMO's. It might lack quantity, but the quality is there. Ryzom is also a gem. Its one of the few MMO's I know where the world feels alive and is more then just pretty. Predators stalk herds and attack animals that stray away. They will do the same with your toon. Herds also travel slowly over large distances. One of the few sandbox MMO's left. Apparently many players think that P2P MMO will guarantee some degree of quality. But the last few years we've seen company after company trying to make fast bucks on boxsales and lifetime subs and then release a half assed game that only few players find interesting enough to stay subscribed to. One company that has a major ip even asks Sub+item mall for a game that isnt even half finished. I also agree with the writer about the MMO market. Its getting silly that some players still act as if Asia only has goldfarmers that play MMO's. Its also not only the MMO market which is slowly shifting to the east.
I think Guild Wars and Ryzom are different from the kind of F2P game the OP usually supports. Unless things have recently changed, neither game has an item mall.
Ryzom charges you nothing for the game. It's a free download. After the trial period, however, there is now a subscription fee. Guild Wars, on the other hand, charges you no subscription fee, but you are charged for each installment of the game. Tbh, I like both of these business models much better that an RMT shop.
I think RMT shop games should really be called "free catalogues." I don't like those because they feel very manipulative in terms of trying to get me to spend money on virtual goods that I don't know I'm going to need when I sign up. I'd rather just pay for each game installment like GuildWars, or pay a straight monthly fee like Ryzom.
I'm a game snot, but in the opposite way. I haven't found any pay games that I feel worthy of paying for. I played WoW, got bored with it after a few months. I beta tested many P2P games, and didn't feel them worthy of paying for. I see some potential games coming (APB, Star Wars: Old Republic, The Agency) to name a few. I'm hoping one of these are great games, and get the MMO devs out of the slump they've been in the past few years.
Comments
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks. Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
Where was the rage and angst at companies raising the prices from $9.99 to $14.99 as the norm...that was just good business and not greed? When that was allowed and people kept paying why not put in item shops. Sorry but the whining and gripping about greed rings pretty hollow because as with the sub fee rise people will get use to it and the anger will stop.
I like some of the author's points. Personally, i think, the general ideas could have been portrayed in two paragraphs. Of course, the "over grade 9 level writing" was to mean something. As if the persons reading grade level was linked in anyway with real IQ. Although, I do find it delightful to see the deluded posts regarding the article.
You have already made up your mind that F2P games all are designed to rip off customers and can be nothing other than that.
You have already made up your mind that F2P is a shady business practice and can be nothing other than that.
You have already made up your mind that if someone says anything positive about F2P that they have monetary interests in it and are unethical people.
It's entirely possible that you feel the only preople who play F2P are people who just want to buy their way past others or people who don't know they are being fleeced.
I'm almost certain that you feel you are speaking from a position of solid knowledge of the business model.
Some say that could possibly be, in some circles, a slight bit towards what one might consider to be sort of close to what the dictionary - and I'm not saying the dictionary is infallible here - may define as Snobbish .
When the pot is black, it really is black, not some other rosy tinted color. Pleae name one single F2P MMO that doesn't try to make more than 15$ bucks a month and I will stand corrected for that ONE exception, but the rule stands.
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks.
Belittling to a writer submitting articles to a public forum to interact with said fourm? I guess all the other staffers here at MMORPG enjoy belittling themselves with awesome discourse with members on this site on a very regular basis. If Mr. Aihoshi does believe it is belittling himself to interact with his audience, then that simply lends credence to what others have said here about his attitude.
If there is angst on this board towards Mr. Aihoshi, it must be the posters fault right? It couldn't have anything to do with his consistently inflammatory columns could it? Nah....
Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion.
Yes, sources are a problem with Mr. Aihoshi as well. They are usually unnamed, unverifiable, and anonymous. But that doesn't stop Mr Aihoshi from building upon such a faltering foundation to make his statements about how impeccable the F2P model is and how those of us that don't see it his way are "in denial", or "liars", or "snobs".
Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
He is hired to write articles about F2P MMO's. He is not, I am certain, hired to insult on a regular basis a broad part of the members here at MMORPG. I have no problem with someone stating a counter opinion and I, in fact welcome it, but if you're going to insult me, and act as though you are superior because of your viewpoint then expect to get some grief in return.
Do you really believe this paragraph you just typed or are you playing devils advocate because I have a hard time believing anyone could believe this tripe if they've read more than one of Mr. Aihoshi's articles.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Are you sure you've read Aioshi's articles? He does exactly what I highlighted in blue in practically every article.
Aioshi routinely takes passive aggressive pot-shots at those who disagree with him. He has labeled those who disagree with him as "being in denial", spins like a top (the Baghdad Bob reference made earlier is quite fitting) and maintains an arrogant tone toward those who don't worship F2P as he does.
When others do it, it's "bashing" and "being snobbish"; even "flaming". I've received warnings by mods here for saying far less offensive things than he says on an almost regular basis. But when *Aioshi* does it, it's "opinion media".
Of course.
And the spin train just keeps a-rollin!
Finally, unlike most of the other columnists here, who will stick around, respond to comments on their columns, back what they say, explain what they say and generally participate in the discourse, Aioshi posts his "articles" in a hit-and-run manner, never sticking around to support his statements. Then again, after you've "made your point" by categorically dissing and labeling entire swaths of people you couldn't possibly know anything about based on their disagreeing with your view of F2P, I guess there's not much to defend.
just because someone is a snob to you does not mean you are not a snob in return. A good journalist does not "defend" his work on a forum board with angst. You put your work out and let is speak for you. It belittles you as a writer to come and defend against sniping attacks. Now if you are attacking his sources, that he plagerized, or outright made lies then yes the writer must defend himself, but why would an opinion writer come and defend his opinion. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one there is no point trying to fight for your individual one here. You post it and if people do not like *shrug* who cares. He owes you nothing. He put something out and the talking heads of the forum can now fight about it. He did what he is hired to do.
Exactly. All of the staff are hired to drive page view up. How they do it depends on their personality and interests.
I'm rather surprised by this sentiment. Implying that those who avoid F2P games because they dislike Item shops and/or RMT do not have a valid view is a rather poor argument. Furthermore, implying that said people are snobs for having this view is going too far.
Disliking Item Shops and RMT, preferring to have time spent rather than money spent matter for ingame advancement, is simply that, preference. It's no different than the age old PvP versus PvE debate. Some people simply prefer one over the other. And similarly, like the PvP versus PvE debate, there are those on each side of the fence that feel their way is the superior way to play.
To answer your question of, "But honestly, does doing so mean you're a better gamer, or a smarter one?", it again depends on perception.
That said however, there are many scenarios where to obtain some achievement within a game, it requires a level of commitment and skill not possible by everyone. Meaning, it can only be obtained by "more skilled and dedicated" gamers. if such accomplishments were purchasable within an item mall, then yes, I would argue that the players of said game that actually have the skill to achieve said goal are the "better" gamer than the one who would simply pull out his or her credit card to obtain the same or similar. Taking out your credit card does not equate to skill within the game, and that is why many people feel that it should not impact gameplay.
But again, it comes back to preference. Some people like being able to purchase ingame achievements, some people hate that it's even possible in a game. Me personally? I'll avoid games with item shops and RMT like a plague, which means pretty much any F2P games. I have tried F2P games in the past, but I could never tolerate the impact that item shops had on gameplay, especially considering that I simply don't want to pay extra just to stay competitive and therefore feel limited right out of the gate in those games. That's just my personal preference in what I find enjoyable in an MMO, and those who would label me as a snob for it actually makes them the elitist snob for attempting to invalidate my preference and opinion on the subject that in no way affects them.
Get this guy off this website, he is noticeably the worst contributor. I wouldn't want anything of his on my website, even if he paid me to put it up. This guy sucks almost as bad as the F2P games that he thinks are so amazingly good. Have you played Mass Effect 2 recently, Richard? How about Heavy Rain?
THOSE are good games. It will be very long before an MMO can reach anywhere near that level.
Or we can stick to the usual snobs we come across on here who genreally just think that anything that does not sit well with them is a waste of time and a detrement to the mmo genre (regardless of how many more fans it brings in). This article actually touches on why I only visit mmorpg once a week now as opposed to the every other day I used to, this entire "it's my way or the highway" attitude of most has gone further than I'm willing.
A good example to me is AOC, I have a really big problem with a company that can release not one but two mmo's in the state that FC did with AO and AOC and I feel that they were dishonest to the detriment of the genre as a whole and while I think this and while I believe the community should have shunned them for the treatment we got I would never presume to go to the lengths some of these mmo snobs do with games like LOTRO,STO,WOW, and anything they don't play at the time constantly making up "facts" just to prove that we all should think as they do.
I for one am impressed now with what FC has done in satisfying the community they have left, and while I still think everything I thought about them was valid I also understand that what drives me doesn't really drive every mmo player out there and as such can accept that things won't always go the way I think they should and honstly I'm ok with that, in my opinion the more people disagree with me the better because it makes me that much more unique, let's all start thinking that way next time we are disappointed by SOE,Blizzard, Bioware or whoever else the next company to feel the wrath of the uninformed fan.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Heh, and I was going to post about how I found author's F2P related concerns unrealistic... Now I won't. Turns out it's just me missing out the latest trends among "Cooler than thou" audience... Never would have expected such dynamics...
On the original topic, yes, overestimated statements are a trademark of MMO-addled community. What else is new?
Holy war on the topic of money investment vs time investment could probably be traced back to the holy crusades themselves if we had any data on relationship between knights. "He's only so strong because of his shiny armour! I'm 10 times better swordsman than he is!"
Personally I don't care if a person spent his month grinding to get to where he is, or spent that extra time working and used his extra funds to get where he is. Problems begin when the effort doesn't equal the result but that's a problem of entire human society and MMO case is just one of many. Humans always seek to cut corners. Whether its player scram, bot usage, and playing on an auction, or advertisement, cheap labour, and stock manipulation, it bears little difference. It's always about someone cutting a corner where someone else finds it inappropriate. Last time I checked no one defined a universal list of corners appropriate for cutting (aside from several religions defining it as none), so screw anyone with his personal list, humanity got what it deserved...
And in which other way can we measure this indication other than measuring the feedback from comments? These articles do not feature the "bump or bury" feature seen on screenshots or non-staff articles, or any other form of measuring such thing in an easier way.
But hey, at least the article was useful, you can now brand people snobs. I wonder what's the next bad word he is teaching his favorable followers next week or whatever week he decides to do this kind of indirect flaming-dedicated article again.
By all means let's use this thread as an indication. It indicates that a miniscule fraction of the members 'are fed up with Mr. Aioshi'.
While the supporters are representing by the truck-load, right?
lol
Talk about a failed spin attempt.
It's not an attempt to spin anything, I'm just pointing to the numbers. And the numbers don't lie: the VAST majority of this site's members could care less. Saying that anything other than a minuscule fraction of the members 'are fed up' is the real spin job.
What is the point of this article? Is it about free-to-play mmog snobs or is it about ignorance? I began reading the article with interest , hoping to hear a unique opinion on the supposed subject. Instead, the article seemed to weaken without making a point other than the obvious fact that people make statements with little or no merit. Then, the rug went out from under your theme and you started discussing the possibility of a misinformed opinion that people might have regarding the Chinese gaming market. What does possible ignorance about China have to do with free-to-play MMOG snobs? I get the ignorance theme, but the article's title is misleading, to say the least. I would like to see you write more about the topic of free-to-play MMOG snobs.
As for me, I will never say never to free-to-play games for one simple reason: They are free!
Sadly, I have yet to play a free-to-play game that is compelling enough for me to invest much time in. I would liken the MMO market to the current job market. Just as there are many applicants for every good job, there are many good games for every good player. A game really has to stand out and shine to be noticed, loved and played. A job applicant has to really stand out and shine to be noticed, hired and paid.
If a group of developers produce a quality game with excellent game-play, it will be played by many. Beyond that, the game really has to have a draw that keeps the players playing. It could be the combat, the story, the loot or the community, but it has have that certain something that makes players keep coming back to it.
Daniel
The really funny part about this argument?
This article goes against MMORPG.COM's Rules of Conduct.
So does this mean it's ok to reply in kind thoughts about the OP? I mean, letting this article fly is giving the green light to personal attacks, even if you are attacking a group of people.
Or do the Rules of Conduct not apply to a select few?
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
So does this mean it's ok to reply in kind thoughts about the OP? I mean, letting this article fly is giving the green light to personal attacks, even if you are attacking a group of people.
Or do the Rules of Conduct not apply to a select few?
Of course it's not.
It is however, quite worse when it is coming from someone who is supposed to be a professional, because it is extremely unprofessional to insult swaths or people for their personal preference that in no way directly affects others.
It would be akin to writing an article stating that all PvE'ers are skill-less carebears because they don't PvP. Sure you might have some fringe readers that would agree with such generalized and negative sentiment, but the majority of people would disagree, and lose respect for the writer and by association the publisher of such a view because it is a baseless statement. Mr. Aihoshi's latest article has done just that.
Statements like this are always funny, are you also mad that stamps now cost twice as much as they did 15 years ago?
Inflation determines cost, $15 in 2010 dollar worth is cheaper then $10 in 1999 dollar value. So no I'm not at all angry about the price being $15.
Not to mention even if your only job is at McDonalds you can afford a monthly MMO sub, it's not like it puts a big dent in the wallet.
I just thought I'd add..
I've played hundreds of F2P mmorpgs. So many I've lost count. You know why? Because I could never bring myself to play them for more than a couple of days. They were all terrible, and they haven't stopped being terrible.
And you know what? It's not even because of the things that can be negated by spending money at the item malls- I mean, yeah the exp rates are pretty shit and it does make it more boring... but I've yet to see an F2P game that looks well made... Massive open areas of identical mobs, generic everything, nobody talks or wants to group, quests always seem to dry up really quickly- as if it matters regardless, the quest text is always terrible, none of it ever seems to have much plot (except for Allods which I recently tried, but outside of the instanced starting zone it was the same). The animations are often terrible (runes of magic, allods, perfect world) I guess that's because they can't be seen in screen shots, and it's hard to tell in low-quality Youtube videos.
I'm still trying F2P mmorpgs but I can honestly say I've never enjoyed one- I'm not saying it's impossible for them to be good, just that in practice, they're not.
Well, Guild Wars and Ryzom are free to play too.
Guild Wars offers better quality then many P2P games. The pvp system is the best thought out that Ive encountered in MMO's. It might lack quantity, but the quality is there.
Ryzom is also a gem. Its one of the few MMO's I know where the world feels alive and is more then just pretty. Predators stalk herds and attack animals that stray away. They will do the same with your toon. Herds also travel slowly over large distances. One of the few sandbox MMO's left.
Apparently many players think that P2P MMO will guarantee some degree of quality. But the last few years we've seen company after company trying to make fast bucks on boxsales and lifetime subs and then release a half assed game that only few players find interesting enough to stay subscribed to. One company that has a major ip even asks Sub+item mall for a game that isnt even half finished.
I also agree with the writer about the MMO market. Its getting silly that some players still act as if Asia only has goldfarmers that play MMO's. Its also not only the MMO market which is slowly shifting to the east.
So now I am a snob because I prefer monthly payments instead of item malls, that due to my competitive style of gameplay would cost me hundreds of dollars? Richard Aihoshi, your advocacy for F2P is reaching idiotic proportions, and this is the least offensive comment I can throw your way right now. Are you that shallow? As a regular reader of the MMORPG columnists, right now I feel really insulted and disenchanted.
I felt this article was very childish and for a site that is trying to become more positive this isn't the kind of article you want to be putting your name behind. I love DDO and Guildwars and I also love Vanguard and Fallen Earth. I have no problems with high quality F2P.....I have just found the majority that I have tried have been lacking in many aspects. If F2P is the way of the future then I am fine with it as long as the games are of quality and not just shallow grindfests.
Playing: Fallen Earth
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2 and Secret World
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What a douche article. I will NEVER EVER EVER play a game with an item mall of any kind.
If that means that I have to quit the genre, then so be it. I have already quit city of heroes, EQ2 (because of the card game), and WOW (because of the pet).
For me its the principle. While not a competitive person I do view MMO's (even completely PvE Ones) as being on a certain level a competitive experience. I play the game to attain things, not to buy things to have.
I generally don't sign up to forums, I just read them to see what players think of certain games. I consider myself a normal and reasonable person.
HOWEVER, this article is offensive to even the most casual of gamers. How a website could support such offensive material is beyond me. I actually signed in to make a post here, thats how much it bothers me.
Since we're taking pot shots at one another, I'm starting to wonder when MMORPG.COM is going to start charging it's forum members micro-fee's for posting on these forums.....???
If that happened........well...........i guess i'd have to stop visiting the site all together, since I'm a SNOB.
Bad timing for this article. I can assume the massive Allods debacle has been linked numerous times already. I think after that most people will safely say they'll never play a F2P MMO. It's not snobbery, the model simply doesn't work to the advantage of anyone but those trying to take your money.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I think Guild Wars and Ryzom are different from the kind of F2P game the OP usually supports. Unless things have recently changed, neither game has an item mall.
Ryzom charges you nothing for the game. It's a free download. After the trial period, however, there is now a subscription fee. Guild Wars, on the other hand, charges you no subscription fee, but you are charged for each installment of the game. Tbh, I like both of these business models much better that an RMT shop.
I think RMT shop games should really be called "free catalogues." I don't like those because they feel very manipulative in terms of trying to get me to spend money on virtual goods that I don't know I'm going to need when I sign up. I'd rather just pay for each game installment like GuildWars, or pay a straight monthly fee like Ryzom.
I'm a game snot, but in the opposite way. I haven't found any pay games that I feel worthy of paying for. I played WoW, got bored with it after a few months. I beta tested many P2P games, and didn't feel them worthy of paying for. I see some potential games coming (APB, Star Wars: Old Republic, The Agency) to name a few. I'm hoping one of these are great games, and get the MMO devs out of the slump they've been in the past few years.