EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, AC, AC2 and SB? Which of those had major success.. EQ, DAoC and UO at the point WoW was released? What sandbox/old-styled MMOs are out today? Darkfall and EVE? With Dawntide in the works? Maybe a few others? The genre you speak of isn't ruined, it's clouded with gear-grinding MMOs, you just have to look and appreciate what games there are to play. None are perfect, but WoW didn't ruin the genre it only expanded it.
Cataclysm has added a lot to the game, its improved gameplay, for hardcore and casual alike, its made raiding more hands on, and less of a cakewalk... as for Sandbox MMO's, they may be the ideal for some, but the reality is that few really enjoy sandbox gameplay, Eve handles the 'sandbox' far better than any other game in that genre, but... some find it too challenging, one of the reasons i think why WoW is as popular as it is, more so now no doubt with Cataclysm, is because the degree of challenge is scaled, depending on the type of gameplay your into. If people weren't having fun in WoW then they wouldnt be playing it.. and fun is something Blizzard seem to have crammed into their game with a shoe horn..
Imo best expansion I've ever experienced so far? Guild Wars Nightfall (Guild Wars unlike WoW had harder and harder game content with other expansions and heroes in NF were amazing! or EoN? Hmm, dungeons here are pretty cool too).
Cataclysm is here just to make world of WoW a little but unknown for old players, so they are not bored by soloing same maps again and again. I mean flying in old world? Flying was there before they just let you do that here. Remaping is interesting but realy not so inovative for game that you could say its best.
I think everyone that has even remotely followed EverQuest 2 over the years would agree with me that "Echoes of Faydwar" was by far the best expansion for a MMO to date.
EverQuest 2 was near death. Subs had plummeted to an all time low. In short, the game was doing extremely bad.
The EoF expansion (that intruduced content from level 1 all the way to the cap, with lots of new zones, dungeons, the AA system, etc) brought back pretty much everyone that had left and put the game right back on the map, peaking with over 350k subscribers all the sudden.
It was a total reborn of EverQuest 2. I had litterly never seen that before with any MMO that could fully rebound like that.
The new areas in wow is really beautiful and there are more depth in many of the quests.
Forget about easy mode dungeons, they are very challenging now.
I've tried most of the mmo's on the market, nothing comes even close to wow, especially not after this expansion.
well done Blizzard.
Pretty much this, Heroic 5 mans are very very difficult now and only drop blues. I am having fun with the challenge now, took a party 2-3 hours worth of tries to take the 2nd boss in BRC in heroic mode, it was great fun. Alot of people posting on here haven't even played the expansion, I guess success brings hate. WoW set the bar for MMO's it was a game changer to say it's a pile of crap is absurd, it wouldn't have 12 million paying customers if it was bad. Some of the MMO's mentioned in this thread and you talk about WoW being rubbish my god? there hasn't been a MMO even close to WoW in the past 5 years. Warhammer Online started of great but got worse per patch, hopefully Guild Wars 2 can set the bar further.
I've played all the expansions of WoW up until this one. Last one held my interest for less then a month so i won't be spending on this one. I haven't bought an MMO in the past couple years that was worth the money. I know if i bought this in less then a month i would be unsubbing as well because, well its World of Warcraft. Now WoW is easier then ever before? What is the point of a game that is without challenge, merit or reward. With all that being said. Blizzard is a outstanding game company/producer. They obviously know how to bring in the dollars. They want the game to be so easy a 5 year old or lady at the senior center on a laptop could play the game successfully as well.
What really surprises me is there largest customer base which isn't the USA are the grind game lovers *Asians* who make up over 60% of all World of Warcraft subscriptions still play. Sorry but i want a game that i'm driven to play and not one that i just feel like playing. WoW just like LOTRO i can just stop playing out of boredom for a month and not miss anything at all. May just load up Guild Wars and play that till GW2 comes out.
I've been mmo gaming for years now and between the old formula of adding expansion after expansion at a alarming unhealthy way, I can clearly state that Cata is by far the best 2-part expansion released in my mmo playing life so far. It just seems so logical for Blizzard to bring their lore and world full circle. Honestly there are key things I think Blizzard did that I don't think I've ever witnessed in an expansion:
Revamping the old world into a fully 3D version from a smoke and mirror version to allow flying
Revamping the old questing treadmill and scrapping thousands of quest and introducing a more story driven version
Revamping the old skill gaining system without killing their core gameplay while future proofing for later expansions
Changing the old world's lore and look to reflect what has happened from past expansions
And I'm saying all of this even after experiencing:
UO's 3D client expansion flop (World changing attempt)
I could add more but the list would get too freakin long. I hope more developers are taking notes as to how to pace expansions and how to go about adding content to your mmo in the most logical sense to your own. I'm tired of the half ass attempts that most of these companies put into releasing expansions. One view of the behind the scenes dvd of cata's birth will have you scratching your head at why other developers can only drawn in limited audiences. I guess their passions don't run as deep.
Had to LOL at this. Half assed as in mixxing a few things around in Azeroth, while not adding new classes to give a veteran a reason to go back through and experience it. I mean 2 new races but for what when there arent any new classes to experience?!? Oh wait lemme guess, they added classes to races that weren't there before and we spin this to make the lemmings feel like they are playen something new. Maybe I am just bitter because I came from FFXI where there were a huge amount of options of what to play, but even my wife (who was the reason I ever played WoW) has no interest in this expansion after how easy the game has become and shes about as casual as you can get.
I hear the new heroics are hard and take time to clear. Sure for now but they will be dumbed down in no time to appease the masses. Game has lost its appeal, and this expansion failed to strike even a spark of interest. But to each his own, if you wanna pay this lazy company for a shitty product, who am I to tell you you are wrong, but I wouldn't claim its the best expansion ever released by any means. Opinions may vary.
I had to quote this guys response, it just sums up this game too well.
As always the same guys trying to stop the juggernaut. But they have no clue what they try to stop here.
Let me explain it to you in 4 simple words.
Blizzard raised the bar...
I know the "next big thing" will need to be better then this and I say: near impossible because of the needed resources.
The rest is an immature teenage discussion of people who simply don't have a clue what's behind the structure of that billion dollar developpers wall.
-Reality CHECK-
This game brings in more dollars per year than AVATAR.
They can afford the best game designers, the best artists, the best developpers and the best programmers.
And then add some.
Good luck in finding anything that is even remotely close to this. You will not.
Amazing isn't it though, all this success, all this bar raising, and WoW is still the only game in history to have so many people who hate it and the people who play it. Yes, WoW has the most subscribers, but lets not forget that it also has the most people who hate it. There are probably more people that hate it and the people that play it than all other MMORPG games have players combined. Says something doesn't it though. So far I have heard far more disappointment in Cataclysm than I have heard raves about it. Not my opinion, I like it, but it is what it is. My prediction is the fans will become more adamant and do nothing but enrage more on the other side as a result of this expansion. Eventually there will be a breaking point, when the people who hate outweigh the people who dont.
And that is when your -Reality CHECK- will come into play. Blizzard is as much a drug dealer as the man on the corner, they are feeding on thier player bases addiction. There is no reason they couldnt' provide this expansion as a free expansion, but they didnt' did they? This expansion was to rebuild the old world to allow us to finally have flight like we asked for, but instead of giving what we asked for, they tossed it out and charged us all $40 for 10 days worth of fun. That is the truth of it right there, make no excuses for it.
Adventruing and questing under the sea is as fun as being stuck in a stinky armpit. Still, don't have to pay for it. Or playing WoW either, thinking about it.
At first I was not going to buy this have not even gotten Wrath really I mean I got it but never played it beyond making a deathknight to see the starter thing. Haven't got a character beyond 65 so hmm it is that good huh ? I am tempted.
As always the same guys trying to stop the juggernaut. But they have no clue what they try to stop here.
Let me explain it to you in 4 simple words.
Blizzard raised the bar...
I know the "next big thing" will need to be better then this and I say: near impossible because of the needed resources.
The rest is an immature teenage discussion of people who simply don't have a clue what's behind the structure of that billion dollar developpers wall.
-Reality CHECK-
This game brings in more dollars per year than AVATAR.
They can afford the best game designers, the best artists, the best developpers and the best programmers.
And then add some.
Good luck in finding anything that is even remotely close to this. You will not.
Amazing isn't it though, all this success, all this bar raising, and WoW is still the only game in history to have so many people who hate it and the people who play it. Yes, WoW has the most subscribers, but lets not forget that it also has the most people who hate it. There are probably more people that hate it and the people that play it than all other MMORPG games have players combined. Says something doesn't it though. So far I have heard far more disappointment in Cataclysm than I have heard raves about it. Not my opinion, I like it, but it is what it is. My prediction is the fans will become more adamant and do nothing but enrage more on the other side as a result of this expansion. Eventually there will be a breaking point, when the people who hate outweigh the people who dont.
And that is when your -Reality CHECK- will come into play. Blizzard is as much a drug dealer as the man on the corner, they are feeding on thier player bases addiction. There is no reason they couldnt' provide this expansion as a free expansion, but they didnt' did they? This expansion was to rebuild the old world to allow us to finally have flight like we asked for, but instead of giving what we asked for, they tossed it out and charged us all $40 for 10 days worth of fun. That is the truth of it right there, make no excuses for it.
Saying there are people who 'hate' it on a subjective thing like entertainment is not a really strong argument.
I do not care for Jazz. Does that mean Jazz is a bad music genre? Hell no!
Need citation on 'more disappointment in cata' phrase. All the professional media outlets are raving about Cata last I checked.
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
I don't care how good their expansion is, when they screwed up their game in the first place. In 2004, Blizzard by far created the most beautiful virtual world with infinite potential. For some reason, this world turned in to a mindless rollercoaster til' end game. Okay.. great.
However, I will give Blizzard credits for creating such a huge lobby game. I mean, instead they could've just stayed with a server browser and let people join dungeons/PVP from there.
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
No idea on how many 'hate' the game (how you even begin to measure that I have no idea).
But only '30% get beyond level 10'. Blizz CEO
Cata is suppose to be the expansion that is aimed at 'fixing' that.
Will it? Who knows? I ain't the oracle. :P
But the financial guys are betting 'yes' at the moment (which means some serious $$$ are on the line).
It is mind boggling that 36 million people tried WoW though. 36 MILLION. o_O
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I don't care how good their expansion is, when they screwed up their game in the first place. In 2004, Blizzard by far created the most beautiful virtual world with infinite potential. For some reason, this world turned in to a mindless rollercoaster til' end game. Okay.. great.
However, I will give Blizzard credits for creating such a huge lobby game. I mean, instead they could've just stayed with a server browser and let people join dungeons/PVP from there.
It's still a MMORPG right, right?
It is an MMORPG unless you think all the 'WoW-clones' are not MMORPGs as well?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
Or, most WoW haters gave the game a chance, but as WoW haters look for a MMORPG they came to their conclusions that WoW ain't no MMORPG (anymore).
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
Or, most WoW haters gave the game a chance, but as WoW haters look for a MMORPG they came to their conclusions that WoW ain't no MMORPG (anymore).
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
Or, most WoW haters gave the game a chance, but as WoW haters look for a MMORPG they came to their conclusions that WoW ain't no MMORPG (anymore).
Really..
It is still a MMORPG compared to say APB? lol
Who said APB is a MMORPG? Last time I checked it's a (M)MOTPS and being shutdown.
Well, against my son's advice, I did not roll a new character in the Goblin area, but created a Tauren Warrior. (haven't played WOW in over 4 years)
Granted, I'm only at level 10, but so far the experience isn't all that different than when I left. Usual assortment of kill tasks and what not, though I do see the underlying theme or storyline they're trying to tie most of them to.
One thing different, went to turn in a quest and found 1/2 of the NPC's including my quest giver dead. I assume this was from a Deathwing attack?
No matter, within 20 minutes everyone was back at their station but it will be interesting to see what goes on when everyone dies.
So I can't really weigh in on how revolutionary the expansion is yet but I'll wait before deliverying the verdict.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, against my son's advice, I did not roll a new character in the Goblin area, but created a Tauren Warrior. (haven't played WOW in over 4 years)
Granted, I'm only at level 10, but so far the experience isn't all that different than when I left. Usual assortment of kill tasks and what not, though I do see the underlying theme or storyline they're trying to tie most of them to.
One thing different, went to turn in a quest and found 1/2 of the NPC's including my quest giver dead. I assume this was from a Deathwing attack?
No matter, within 20 minutes everyone was back at their station but it will be interesting to see what goes on when everyone dies.
So I can't really weigh in on how revolutionary the expansion is yet but I'll wait before deliverying the verdict.
Yeah but remember this expansion is not supposed to be revolutionary. Just lots of fun and fresh experince for old players. New players won't notice anything different.
Well, against my son's advice, I did not roll a new character in the Goblin area, but created a Tauren Warrior. (haven't played WOW in over 4 years)
Granted, I'm only at level 10, but so far the experience isn't all that different than when I left. Usual assortment of kill tasks and what not, though I do see the underlying theme or storyline they're trying to tie most of them to.
One thing different, went to turn in a quest and found 1/2 of the NPC's including my quest giver dead. I assume this was from a Deathwing attack?
No matter, within 20 minutes everyone was back at their station but it will be interesting to see what goes on when everyone dies.
So I can't really weigh in on how revolutionary the expansion is yet but I'll wait before deliverying the verdict.
Based on comments during the beta, I think thunder bluff is the least revamped area.
Roll a Belf Warrior like a man! (Do you see what i did there?) :P
Based on that 4 year comment, i assume you didn't play BC. The Belf starting area is good and still considered one of the best starting zones, although goblin/worgen/undead are also all awesome, apprently.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Well, against my son's advice, I did not roll a new character in the Goblin area, but created a Tauren Warrior. (haven't played WOW in over 4 years)
[mod edit]
If blizzard at least added everything they initially promised i guess i would have bought it . But by scrapping the path of the titans i just can't see how this expansion can be that great for anyone apart from the sheeple who decided it was awesome before even testing it . I will wait more time and see how things go before deciding whether i should give it a try. But based on my WoTLK experience and what i read this expansion actually seems disapointing.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Comments
Cataclysm has added a lot to the game, its improved gameplay, for hardcore and casual alike, its made raiding more hands on, and less of a cakewalk... as for Sandbox MMO's, they may be the ideal for some, but the reality is that few really enjoy sandbox gameplay, Eve handles the 'sandbox' far better than any other game in that genre, but... some find it too challenging, one of the reasons i think why WoW is as popular as it is, more so now no doubt with Cataclysm, is because the degree of challenge is scaled, depending on the type of gameplay your into. If people weren't having fun in WoW then they wouldnt be playing it.. and fun is something Blizzard seem to have crammed into their game with a shoe horn..
was about time that they admit that its massive multiplayer online adventuring game.
10 points to blizzard for that.
Generation P
I think everyone that has even remotely followed EverQuest 2 over the years would agree with me that "Echoes of Faydwar" was by far the best expansion for a MMO to date.
EverQuest 2 was near death. Subs had plummeted to an all time low. In short, the game was doing extremely bad.
The EoF expansion (that intruduced content from level 1 all the way to the cap, with lots of new zones, dungeons, the AA system, etc) brought back pretty much everyone that had left and put the game right back on the map, peaking with over 350k subscribers all the sudden.
It was a total reborn of EverQuest 2. I had litterly never seen that before with any MMO that could fully rebound like that.
ive just done the goblin starter area and what a blast that was.
yep eq2 eof was a great job done. then they relesed kunark and that was the end for me and alot of others.
Pretty much this, Heroic 5 mans are very very difficult now and only drop blues. I am having fun with the challenge now, took a party 2-3 hours worth of tries to take the 2nd boss in BRC in heroic mode, it was great fun. Alot of people posting on here haven't even played the expansion, I guess success brings hate. WoW set the bar for MMO's it was a game changer to say it's a pile of crap is absurd, it wouldn't have 12 million paying customers if it was bad. Some of the MMO's mentioned in this thread and you talk about WoW being rubbish my god? there hasn't been a MMO even close to WoW in the past 5 years. Warhammer Online started of great but got worse per patch, hopefully Guild Wars 2 can set the bar further.
I've played all the expansions of WoW up until this one. Last one held my interest for less then a month so i won't be spending on this one. I haven't bought an MMO in the past couple years that was worth the money. I know if i bought this in less then a month i would be unsubbing as well because, well its World of Warcraft. Now WoW is easier then ever before? What is the point of a game that is without challenge, merit or reward. With all that being said. Blizzard is a outstanding game company/producer. They obviously know how to bring in the dollars. They want the game to be so easy a 5 year old or lady at the senior center on a laptop could play the game successfully as well.
What really surprises me is there largest customer base which isn't the USA are the grind game lovers *Asians* who make up over 60% of all World of Warcraft subscriptions still play. Sorry but i want a game that i'm driven to play and not one that i just feel like playing. WoW just like LOTRO i can just stop playing out of boredom for a month and not miss anything at all. May just load up Guild Wars and play that till GW2 comes out.
For me, WoW needs to bring back the open PvP somehow. That is what made Vanilla so good for me. Until they do that, I won't be sticking around.
As always the same guys trying to stop the juggernaut. But they have no clue what they try to stop here.
Let me explain it to you in 4 simple words.
Blizzard raised the bar...
I know the "next big thing" will need to be better then this and I say: near impossible because of the needed resources.
The rest is an immature teenage discussion of people who simply don't have a clue what's behind the structure of that billion dollar developpers wall.
-Reality CHECK-
This game brings in more dollars per year than AVATAR.
They can afford the best game designers, the best artists, the best developpers and the best programmers.
And then add some.
Good luck in finding anything that is even remotely close to this. You will not.
I don't know, I go to gamespot and the nr. 1 most popular game is cataclysm. An expansion pack that is more popular than Gran turismo 5 and Black ops.
Amazing isn't it though, all this success, all this bar raising, and WoW is still the only game in history to have so many people who hate it and the people who play it. Yes, WoW has the most subscribers, but lets not forget that it also has the most people who hate it. There are probably more people that hate it and the people that play it than all other MMORPG games have players combined. Says something doesn't it though. So far I have heard far more disappointment in Cataclysm than I have heard raves about it. Not my opinion, I like it, but it is what it is. My prediction is the fans will become more adamant and do nothing but enrage more on the other side as a result of this expansion. Eventually there will be a breaking point, when the people who hate outweigh the people who dont.
And that is when your -Reality CHECK- will come into play. Blizzard is as much a drug dealer as the man on the corner, they are feeding on thier player bases addiction. There is no reason they couldnt' provide this expansion as a free expansion, but they didnt' did they? This expansion was to rebuild the old world to allow us to finally have flight like we asked for, but instead of giving what we asked for, they tossed it out and charged us all $40 for 10 days worth of fun. That is the truth of it right there, make no excuses for it.
Adventruing and questing under the sea is as fun as being stuck in a stinky armpit. Still, don't have to pay for it. Or playing WoW either, thinking about it.
At first I was not going to buy this have not even gotten Wrath really I mean I got it but never played it beyond making a deathknight to see the starter thing. Haven't got a character beyond 65 so hmm it is that good huh ? I am tempted.
Saying there are people who 'hate' it on a subjective thing like entertainment is not a really strong argument.
I do not care for Jazz. Does that mean Jazz is a bad music genre? Hell no!
Need citation on 'more disappointment in cata' phrase. All the professional media outlets are raving about Cata last I checked.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Funny thing is, most WoW haters did not actually play the game, they just heard a friend of a friend of a neighbour of a friend who played it 4 minutes and didin´t like it.
And simply because hating the big bad wolf is the cool thing to do.
Rawr.
I don't care how good their expansion is, when they screwed up their game in the first place. In 2004, Blizzard by far created the most beautiful virtual world with infinite potential. For some reason, this world turned in to a mindless rollercoaster til' end game. Okay.. great.
However, I will give Blizzard credits for creating such a huge lobby game. I mean, instead they could've just stayed with a server browser and let people join dungeons/PVP from there.
It's still a MMORPG right, right?
No idea on how many 'hate' the game (how you even begin to measure that I have no idea).
But only '30% get beyond level 10'. Blizz CEO
Cata is suppose to be the expansion that is aimed at 'fixing' that.
Will it? Who knows? I ain't the oracle. :P
But the financial guys are betting 'yes' at the moment (which means some serious $$$ are on the line).
It is mind boggling that 36 million people tried WoW though. 36 MILLION. o_O
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It is an MMORPG unless you think all the 'WoW-clones' are not MMORPGs as well?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Or, most WoW haters gave the game a chance, but as WoW haters look for a MMORPG they came to their conclusions that WoW ain't no MMORPG (anymore).
Really..
It is still a MMORPG compared to say APB? lol
Bite Me
Who said APB is a MMORPG? Last time I checked it's a (M)MOTPS and being shutdown.
Well, against my son's advice, I did not roll a new character in the Goblin area, but created a Tauren Warrior. (haven't played WOW in over 4 years)
Granted, I'm only at level 10, but so far the experience isn't all that different than when I left. Usual assortment of kill tasks and what not, though I do see the underlying theme or storyline they're trying to tie most of them to.
One thing different, went to turn in a quest and found 1/2 of the NPC's including my quest giver dead. I assume this was from a Deathwing attack?
No matter, within 20 minutes everyone was back at their station but it will be interesting to see what goes on when everyone dies.
So I can't really weigh in on how revolutionary the expansion is yet but I'll wait before deliverying the verdict.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah but remember this expansion is not supposed to be revolutionary. Just lots of fun and fresh experince for old players. New players won't notice anything different.
Bite Me
Based on comments during the beta, I think thunder bluff is the least revamped area.
Roll a Belf Warrior like a man! (Do you see what i did there?) :P
Based on that 4 year comment, i assume you didn't play BC. The Belf starting area is good and still considered one of the best starting zones, although goblin/worgen/undead are also all awesome, apprently.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If blizzard at least added everything they initially promised i guess i would have bought it . But by scrapping the path of the titans i just can't see how this expansion can be that great for anyone apart from the sheeple who decided it was awesome before even testing it . I will wait more time and see how things go before deciding whether i should give it a try. But based on my WoTLK experience and what i read this expansion actually seems disapointing.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.