As others have already said, Blizzard know how to milk the cow.
Having said that, premium services are just that, premium, if you don't want to pay extra for it then don't, simple as that really. I don't agree with what Blizzard are doing, cash shop, premium services etc on top of a monthly fee but end of the day they have the subscription numbers and probably the proof that they aren't losing many people to other mmo's, so makes sense from a business point of view doing this.
If only 5% of there (supposed) 12 million sub base pay £9.99 for the service then that's just under £6million into Blizzards coffers, now if you were in business yourself wouldn't you say this is just too good to pass up :P (I don't know the price they will offer the service at so the £9.99 is a hyperthetical number).
You're completely missing the point. People are upset because this is a feature that has been funded with their already substantial subscription fees, and now they're being asked to pay for it again. In what world is having to pay for something twice ethical or acceptable?
As others have already said, Blizzard know how to milk the cow.
Having said that, premium services are just that, premium, if you don't want to pay extra for it then don't, simple as that really. I don't agree with what Blizzard are doing, cash shop, premium services etc on top of a monthly fee but end of the day they have the subscription numbers and probably the proof that they aren't losing many people to other mmo's, so makes sense from a business point of view doing this.
If only 5% of there (supposed) 12 million sub base pay £9.99 for the service then that's just under £6million into Blizzards coffers, now if you were in business yourself wouldn't you say this is just too good to pass up :P (I don't know the price they will offer the service at so the £9.99 is a hyperthetical number).
You're completely missing the point. People are upset because this is a feature that has been funded with their already substantial subscription fees, and now they're being asked to pay for it again. In what world is having to pay for something twice ethical or acceptable?
Earth?
Where do you think the money comes from for ANY company to do R&D and develop new or improved products. You kids seriously need to learn how the world works.
I worked in a computer datacenter for over 18 years and not once has a montly fee been associated with server costs. The only exception would be if that you are buying new server to cover the cost. What people do is take old existing servers and put them to better use. Monthly fees are there only to support people's salaries and work tools.
You're missing the point that the feature should be included in the price of the original subscription. It's being sold and marketed as an "extra", but it's something you should expect to recieve for your initial purchase.
Why?
In in the movie example the theater charges for the 3D glasses. In my opinion you need the 3D glasses in order to see the movie therefore THAT should be part of the ticket. However, to create the glasses, ship them, dispense them, etc costs a bit extra so I can understand a slightly higher cost. But that still should be part of the ticket.
This service is not needed to play the game. To play WoW. It's extra. therefore some sort of additional cost at least makes some sense.
They are investing money into creating this service which they claim is quite involved. I'm sure some pro's will have a better handle on what it entails.
why shouldn't they recoup some of that money back?
They are recouping that money back. It's in the form of the subscription fees that players pay every month to keep their developers and staff working on things just like this. A lot of people think their subscription just goes toward CSRs and server bandwidth, but this is precisely the type of developement you're paying for in addition to the others. Want precedent? Think about why they don't charge you when they come out with a free new series of dungeons or raids. They didn't just spend time and money developing those because of their generosity. They weren't included in the original game/xpack, so these are "extras" that are actively paid for every month by the subcriptions.
Now let me point out that they already have a system that pulls players across realms to form them into a dungeon group, and they already have the Real ID system set up to locate and recognize your friends no matter what game they're playing, or what server they're on. Why, when combining these two features, would you ever expect that your subscription fee isn't enough?
Simply put, it's on the player to set the expectation of what they'll recieve when they pay for something. If you're okay paying a premium for this service, then fine, I can't argue that. It's obviously not within your expectations to recieve it without paying more. A lot of people, however, do consider this type of thing to be included in sub fees, and are not okay with the thought of Blizzard offering in game features as a "Premium" service.
Well then I'll restate that last part as "why shouldn't they continue to make money".
It costs money to license software, pay employees, insurance, equipement, rent (and depending on where they are commercial real estate can be very expensive) utilities (yeah, it's more than what we pay to light our homes I can tell you that from first hand experience) and "much much more".
I recall a GDC seveal years ago where Blizzard "higher ups" talked about their costs. It was quite substantial and more than "we just made a game and are sitting back watching the money just roll in".
As far as what players expect or want from their monthly fee, well they can expect and want until the cows come home.
From what I see on these forums, there is a contingent of players who feel that $15 or even double that is a "lot of money".
It just isn't. and if it is then there are other issues there and that money should NOT be used to play games.
The next argument is "It doesn't matter if it's $15 or $1 dollar I should be able to get an appropriate value for that money".
I can't argue with that. However, I can walk into any store, movie, restaurant and start spouting about what I expect for my money. The truth is that regardless of what I expect I will get what the business is willing to give based upon what they feel their costs are in relation to their products and what the market will bear.
I expect to walk into any establishment and depending on the business pay about 1.50 to 3.95 for a cup of coffee. I expect that sugar, cream, stirrers will be available. I expect the volume of coffee to be an appropriate amount depending on if it is esspresso or just a plain ol' cup of joe.I expect that I won't be charged for that coffee and then receive an additional charge for a cup. Though truth be told that cost is actually figured into the coffee. The whole shebang is.
However, if I say "coffee can't be enjoyed unless I have a small piece of biscotti and that should be part of my coffee price" then I can expect and demand all I want. it's not going to make that biscotti suddenly become gratis.
As for this whole cross server ability being part of a paid server I say "why not". I easily see it as extra. You don't need to play with your friends cross server to play the game as designed.
Your $15 per month covers your access to the game and all content that is required to play the game. If it isn't then there is something wrong.
Anything additonal such as being able to access yoru inventory and trade in the game while you are on the bus, adidtional cosmetics, cosmetic mounts, being able to access other servers to play with friends are all extra.
I see no issue with companies addingg addtional services for a fee. If the market will bear it then it is what it is. If no one will pay it then Blizzaard has miscalculated.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As others have already said, Blizzard know how to milk the cow.
Having said that, premium services are just that, premium, if you don't want to pay extra for it then don't, simple as that really. I don't agree with what Blizzard are doing, cash shop, premium services etc on top of a monthly fee but end of the day they have the subscription numbers and probably the proof that they aren't losing many people to other mmo's, so makes sense from a business point of view doing this.
If only 5% of there (supposed) 12 million sub base pay £9.99 for the service then that's just under £6million into Blizzards coffers, now if you were in business yourself wouldn't you say this is just too good to pass up :P (I don't know the price they will offer the service at so the £9.99 is a hyperthetical number).
You're completely missing the point. People are upset because this is a feature that has been funded with their already substantial subscription fees, and now they're being asked to pay for it again. In what world is having to pay for something twice ethical or acceptable?
Earth?
Where do you think the money comes from for ANY company to do R&D and develop new or improved products. You kids seriously need to learn how the world works.
indeed, go check out the Zeitgeist Movie on you tube it will show you how the monetary system works
The argument of "you dont need it or like it then dont pay for it" is really a feebleminded one.
Don't these people stop and think, "maybe one day they'll charge for something I want that should be included"
I wonder if these same people would be arguing if the LFD went out as a premium service.
Well, then when the time comes and they do charge for somethng that should be included then that will spark another debate and if it truly is something that "should" be included then people won't pay for it.
I am a firm believer in being an informed consumer and a consumer who is responsible for how I spend my money. If I don't believe in it or if I think I can spend my money in a better way then I do.
End of story. the onus is on me.
What I see here is people wanting everything for a mere $15 per month. And these games have been $15 per month for a long time.
So either companies are going to start raising that price (and I will laugh at the uproar on that one) or they will have to start adding services and extras in order to make more money.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Where do you think the money comes from for ANY company to do R&D and develop new or improved products. You kids seriously need to learn how the world works.
indeed, go check out the Zeitgeist Movie on you tube it will show you how the monetary system works
um, it's important that with any piece of news or media that one not take it all on face value but get alternate ideas and opinions so one can be a more informed viewer or at least be able to measure and weigh the information that is presented. I started to watch that bit and as it rolled in front of me I couldn't help think I was being taken for a bit of a ride. Still, I'm not an economist so any presentatin of what "seems" like fact might be compellign.
looking at other sources one can at least see opposing views.
There are other opposing views on this movie as well.
as with anything we need to question and not be handed solutions without our say.
so on topic, if people truly feel that Blizzard is fleecing its players by just finding more ways to milk them then don't pay for this service. If however, the service seems reasonable and adds value to yourr game play experience then pay for it.
Only "you" can make a decision on how best to spend your money. Just as "you" can make a decision as to who is selling you a golden bridge or real estate in the desert.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"This raid brought to you by Coka-Cola, Always Coka-Cola, and remember... Nike makes the best Platemail Boots of Ultimate Destruction in all of Azeroth!"
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One thing people don't realize when they say Blizzard still has 11.4 subs left is that Europe/US are on the different economical models than China. In China, people pay per hour played instead of a flat monthly fee. I hardly doubt that all those 6M+ subs in China are even remotely close to what Blizzard gets from Europe/US (lower sub cost, Bliz can't provide online services themselves and etc). According to the CEO, most of the subs lost were from the West - this means Europe/US. So now, do the math and you will see 600K subs in the Western markets is a substantial chunk of their income.
That's a sign of a dying game. They're losing players so they're trying to add new revenue streams from the same players they have. Its a brilliant idea to cash in some more before WoW stops being relevant.
regardless of how customer acceptance justifies the implementation of a premium service in a p2p game, it still doesn't make it any more correct.
I mean, for god's sake. Rift just put in free server transfers taht you can use once each week! that's one better than just dungeon stomping with your friends, that's hanging out with them whenever any of you feel like it... AND dungeon stomping! for free!
WoW's influence has been overshadowed by it's greed.
Until people are willing to unsub in protest, all this discontent means absolutely nothing.
Words mean nothing without action, and if you don't think this is just the beginning, you're sadly mistaken. Stop being frogs in water, it's time to jump out of the pot before the water boils.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Comments
You're completely missing the point. People are upset because this is a feature that has been funded with their already substantial subscription fees, and now they're being asked to pay for it again. In what world is having to pay for something twice ethical or acceptable?
Earth?
Where do you think the money comes from for ANY company to do R&D and develop new or improved products. You kids seriously need to learn how the world works.
I worked in a computer datacenter for over 18 years and not once has a montly fee been associated with server costs. The only exception would be if that you are buying new server to cover the cost. What people do is take old existing servers and put them to better use. Monthly fees are there only to support people's salaries and work tools.
Well then I'll restate that last part as "why shouldn't they continue to make money".
It costs money to license software, pay employees, insurance, equipement, rent (and depending on where they are commercial real estate can be very expensive) utilities (yeah, it's more than what we pay to light our homes I can tell you that from first hand experience) and "much much more".
I recall a GDC seveal years ago where Blizzard "higher ups" talked about their costs. It was quite substantial and more than "we just made a game and are sitting back watching the money just roll in".
As far as what players expect or want from their monthly fee, well they can expect and want until the cows come home.
From what I see on these forums, there is a contingent of players who feel that $15 or even double that is a "lot of money".
It just isn't. and if it is then there are other issues there and that money should NOT be used to play games.
The next argument is "It doesn't matter if it's $15 or $1 dollar I should be able to get an appropriate value for that money".
I can't argue with that. However, I can walk into any store, movie, restaurant and start spouting about what I expect for my money. The truth is that regardless of what I expect I will get what the business is willing to give based upon what they feel their costs are in relation to their products and what the market will bear.
I expect to walk into any establishment and depending on the business pay about 1.50 to 3.95 for a cup of coffee. I expect that sugar, cream, stirrers will be available. I expect the volume of coffee to be an appropriate amount depending on if it is esspresso or just a plain ol' cup of joe.I expect that I won't be charged for that coffee and then receive an additional charge for a cup. Though truth be told that cost is actually figured into the coffee. The whole shebang is.
However, if I say "coffee can't be enjoyed unless I have a small piece of biscotti and that should be part of my coffee price" then I can expect and demand all I want. it's not going to make that biscotti suddenly become gratis.
As for this whole cross server ability being part of a paid server I say "why not". I easily see it as extra. You don't need to play with your friends cross server to play the game as designed.
Your $15 per month covers your access to the game and all content that is required to play the game. If it isn't then there is something wrong.
Anything additonal such as being able to access yoru inventory and trade in the game while you are on the bus, adidtional cosmetics, cosmetic mounts, being able to access other servers to play with friends are all extra.
I see no issue with companies addingg addtional services for a fee. If the market will bear it then it is what it is. If no one will pay it then Blizzaard has miscalculated.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
indeed, go check out the Zeitgeist Movie on you tube it will show you how the monetary system works
Well, then when the time comes and they do charge for somethng that should be included then that will spark another debate and if it truly is something that "should" be included then people won't pay for it.
I am a firm believer in being an informed consumer and a consumer who is responsible for how I spend my money. If I don't believe in it or if I think I can spend my money in a better way then I do.
End of story. the onus is on me.
What I see here is people wanting everything for a mere $15 per month. And these games have been $15 per month for a long time.
So either companies are going to start raising that price (and I will laugh at the uproar on that one) or they will have to start adding services and extras in order to make more money.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
um, it's important that with any piece of news or media that one not take it all on face value but get alternate ideas and opinions so one can be a more informed viewer or at least be able to measure and weigh the information that is presented. I started to watch that bit and as it rolled in front of me I couldn't help think I was being taken for a bit of a ride. Still, I'm not an economist so any presentatin of what "seems" like fact might be compellign.
looking at other sources one can at least see opposing views.
http://boingboing.net/2007/08/06/jay-kinney-reviews-z.html
There are other opposing views on this movie as well.
as with anything we need to question and not be handed solutions without our say.
so on topic, if people truly feel that Blizzard is fleecing its players by just finding more ways to milk them then don't pay for this service. If however, the service seems reasonable and adds value to yourr game play experience then pay for it.
Only "you" can make a decision on how best to spend your money. Just as "you" can make a decision as to who is selling you a golden bridge or real estate in the desert.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And to think I almost thought of resubbing...
Nothing to think about when it's the same old blizzard.
It's not the same old Blizzard. Blizzard was amazing. It's Activision.
gogogo milk moar bobby!
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
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One thing people don't realize when they say Blizzard still has 11.4 subs left is that Europe/US are on the different economical models than China. In China, people pay per hour played instead of a flat monthly fee. I hardly doubt that all those 6M+ subs in China are even remotely close to what Blizzard gets from Europe/US (lower sub cost, Bliz can't provide online services themselves and etc). According to the CEO, most of the subs lost were from the West - this means Europe/US. So now, do the math and you will see 600K subs in the Western markets is a substantial chunk of their income.
That's a sign of a dying game. They're losing players so they're trying to add new revenue streams from the same players they have. Its a brilliant idea to cash in some more before WoW stops being relevant.
http://legalbinary.wordpress.com/ - LegalBinary, were the law and mmorpgs, botting, computers and gaming intersect.
regardless of how customer acceptance justifies the implementation of a premium service in a p2p game, it still doesn't make it any more correct.
I mean, for god's sake. Rift just put in free server transfers taht you can use once each week! that's one better than just dungeon stomping with your friends, that's hanging out with them whenever any of you feel like it... AND dungeon stomping! for free!
WoW's influence has been overshadowed by it's greed.
Blizzard has milked the WoW cow so much it is only putting out powdered milk by now.
Until people are willing to unsub in protest, all this discontent means absolutely nothing.
Words mean nothing without action, and if you don't think this is just the beginning, you're sadly mistaken. Stop being frogs in water, it's time to jump out of the pot before the water boils.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky