15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
Elitism? No. Just facts. MMORPG's today are nothing but glorified console rpgs now. They lack almost all features that made a mmorpg a mmorpg.They have no longevity, no value, no concept of earning something, poor crafting, poor to no housing, exploration is lost, and social aspect is gone............................ That's what you call changing with time? No its called killing a mmorpg, and that's why we have been in a 8+ year rut of horrible games and major failures!
Evolution is to go forward and to evolve into something better, not backwards as mmorpg have!
You say arrogance and hogwash, yet the industry is suffering, people aren't happy, and more games and companies have failed, gone bankrupt, or sold out in the past 4 years than the last 20 in mmorpg history? Yeah ok!
At the beginning of Rift, they segregated free trials from the paid people and it didn't work. Sorry, it is still too easy to hack to move things so I think this is an absolutely dumb idea.
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
I beg to differ. And its not that game's are changing, it's that game companies are getting bigger and are trying to make Walmart games, one shop for everyone.
There is always hope. Indie studios are still making great games and simply signing on publishing agreements. This assures that at least we will get a small but steady stream of innovative games that still cater to "niche" fans.
That said, they already did this with EQ2, it was one of Smed's big lies in the end.
When they launched F2P, the servers were totally separate. It was actually a better deal to pay $15 per month on the sub servers than on the F2P servers. Smed stated early on that this would not change.
Boom, some time later, all servers were combined into the F2P or Sub model. Doing exactly what we were told would not happen.
So, given that, I would not get my hopes up. They are enjoying the money people are willing to spend in that damn cash shop, whether they are subbed or not.
And yes, it's a little pathetic that I'm still looking forward to info on EQN.
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
Elitism? No. Just facts. MMORPG's today are nothing but glorified console rpgs now. They lack almost all features that made a mmorpg a mmorpg.They have no longevity, no value, no concept of earning something, poor crafting, poor to no housing, exploration is lost, and social aspect is gone............................ That's what you call changing with time? No its called killing a mmorpg, and that's why we have been in a 8+ year rut of horrible games and major failures!
Evolution is to go forward and to evolve into something better, not backwards as mmorpg have!
You say arrogance and hogwash, yet the industry is suffering, people aren't happy, and more games and companies have failed, gone bankrupt, or sold out in the past 4 years than the last 20 in mmorpg history? Yeah ok!
Longevity? I will give you an example - people playing over 5K hours in GW2 and it hasn't been out for 9 months, complaining there is nothing to do? I played GW1 for 6 years and had only 3.5K hours in the game and I thought I was playing too much. Get real! The problem is the average person, on this forum, plays games like a job, not like a game.
How is the industry suffering? Where? Give me details? Could it be the fact that the world economy is down and people DON'T have money in their pockets for frivilous stuff, like games? Also, it takes more money to produce games, so you need MORE people to play them. It is just facts. The same thing happened with the automobile industry, without the US government saving GM and Chrysler, these companies would have died. It happens. It has nothing to do with the industry and more to do with the evolution of the industry. Those who evolve survive, those who don't perish.
Your OPINION that MMO's have gone backwards, not mine. They have just evolved and are trying to attract more players. After all, the gaming companies have to make money to survive. They are not charities.
See, that's one of the forms of cheapness I'm talking about. Would rather not play with cheap mmo'ers.
It's perfectly well and good to have preferences. No problem with that. I have written quite possibly a thousand pages to the contrary targeting the many reasons people give for it, but no one has the right to say "you enjoy something for the wrong reasons", or that "you are wrong for enjoying this".
I never said you were wrong for enjoying it your way, just I prefer to avoid Cheap people. I've never said I wasn't a bit snobbish, I admit it.
Everyone has a right their own opinions, and though I disagree with yours and others, I never have ill tension toward you or them. That's the difference in someone being childish (not intended toward you) or being an adult about a conversation. We can all get along even though we want to play an mmorpg differently, having choices is a good thing imo. It's win, win, for us all.
It's an issue of differences of culture and upbringing. 'Tis something I oft struggle with; I was very much in agreement with you up until 10 years ago or so. Though what opened my eyes was when I opened my mind (definitely not to imply that you don't have an open mind, but rather to explain my own turning point). Worldly experiences and extensive research on the follies of mankind as well as our trek unto the what is considered by physicist Michio Kaku to be the "first level of civilization" (in that a planet is unified and fully exploiting it's resources).
Its in his own assertions that I see the logic and outright correct reasoning of what you're saying. The world is now about money, and we cannot avoid that. We need to embrace it if we are to advance as a species. Though at the same time, we lose ourselves in our own arrogance. In our thought processes that only pertains to ourselves. We are selfish creatures, yes, but not always inherently. Many cultures have changed because it was our will; because we said we were correct. That there is no other way, and they should not remain uncivilized savages. These are realistic statements in today's world, but they were first brought about by our own mindsets in that we just know what's best for those who aren't as technologically advanced as we are.
Except that, we don't always know best. We just think we do. Again, I must say that I struggle in this every day, as even though I dedicated much of my life and studies to these subjects and these thoughts, my view points must always be open to those of different cultures and upbringings lest I be guilty of the same (not to imply that I'm not anyway). There is a quote I used to say, in that I'm probably the most ignorant person in the world... as I believe in the human's ability to learn and to accept foreign views. The internet itself is... a huge obstacle in that, as it continuously proves me wrong. WIth ease of access, we lose ourselves; with money we lose ourselves. We become lazy to the truths of the world; we believe the first thing we say, or to who seems like the victim of something. We cling to something that will give us and our group benefits. We prey on the lazy to send a message to the masses.
Many even attack you for stating an opinion. The quote "fact does not need fiction to be true" is becoming less powerful, as lies are more powerful than truth. Lies are easy to spread, while truth needs context and an articulate pen. Lies are something we can believe in without working for, whilst truth is something that requires a hard day's work. "And the meek shall inherit the world". It's something to think about, whether one is a scholar of such (though let's not talk about religion as that is something where I think just about everyone agrees is a right of an individual to believe or not).
Though... as a whole, what all this pertains to the topic at hand is that in everything we do -- be it video gaming or something else -- there is this distinction. It's artificial. It's a lie. The dollar itself is worthless, as it only has worth because we as a collective group say it does. There was a time when you could exchange it for actual gold, but we have since been taken off the gold standard. Gaming has a value because we say it does; there are people willing to play it. If there are people willing to pay payment models, then it is worth it. Except that the P2P model itself is faultering. Friends are being split by dozens of games (many that could simpy have been single player games), and most people are starting to play multiple games at once. This will lead to a natural split of consumers (years ago I predicted in my research the next generation of consoles will have big name MMOs to provide "newblood" to supplement the genre and avoid a partialcollapse; that the line between MMO and online games will be blurred as technology wanes and games will come out that milk the consumer base as much, for the least possible effort).
Therefore the assertion that money equates high society or ample maturity, or even intellectuals, ignores all facets of humanity and only embraces what one (in my opinion) wants to see. What is the value of having a large family, of a hard day's work knowing you supported your loved ones? Without going into much rhetoric on that matter, it's the same as the value we give it. The same as the value we give anything. That whole "you're rich, because you have a loving family" statement that we all seem to forget in our search for a worthless piece of paper. Those stories of people having money, but no friends and feeling like they're poor; even the rich youth being snobby that is stereotyped and tends to become social media (again, one outlet manipulating human nature... in the same way F2P would, if you think about it).
Now allow me to give you a "wow" moment in the following:
Let's look at F2P now, since that was brought up. How is it that so many people can play a game for free and not spend a dime? That some games come out with all their content available? It's because they depend on the rich. The rich single handily support this model; they spend tens of thousands of dollars just to get a few advantages here and there. These are the people "with the money". These are the people that I have read you say you want to play with. $15 would be nothing to them, so if they wanted to play that game they would. Those with money are supporting the path that gets them the most advantage. These are the people with money that you want to play alongside. The ones that have 40 accounts on WoW, and hire a butler to play them all to get 20,000 gold a day in dailies and who hire entire guilds to run heroics and pass items to them.
No, the people I think you're referring to are the ones who are hard working. Because hard work is valuable (and more indicative of a hard working community in game as opposed to wanting things handed to them). Some hard workers make more useless paper than others, but does that actually devalue them as a person you would want to associate with? Truly? This is why options are important; B2P and even specialized P2P whereby the consumer doesn't feel ripped off (in that there are other games that are cheaper / in that we have to accept this if we want to save the genre / in that the value is in the person and not of their net worth). Indeed, I've wrote papers in the past whereby I realized I spent almost four thousand dollars on a game I can no longer play (wow; multiple accounts / fees since day one / expansions for accounts / services such as transfers and naming). This was a realization that I no longer like the current P2P model -- that it was archaic -- and such a thing led me to do more research on why it was failing (and that I had ample things to look forward to with the genre if it either couldn't survive or stayed as it was).
Aside from all of that, forgive me if there were any negative implications towards you above. They are unintended if such is true. The prospects of P2P are something that should be salvaged in some way. Just as F2P needs to be (in my opinion) fixed and B2P expanded upon (especially for the console generation that has been trained in buying single player games and paying microtransactions... which is what we're seeing today in the genre... not to mention the announcement that next consoles will fully support the F2P model).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
That said, they already did this with EQ2, it was one of Smed's big lies in the end.
When they launched F2P, the servers were totally separate. It was actually a better deal to pay $15 per month on the sub servers than on the F2P servers. Smed stated early on that this would not change.
Boom, some time later, all servers were combined into the F2P or Sub model. Doing exactly what we were told would not happen.
So, given that, I would not get my hopes up. They are enjoying the money people are willing to spend in that damn cash shop, whether they are subbed or not.
And yes, it's a little pathetic that I'm still looking forward to info on EQN.
That said, they already did this with EQ2, it was one of Smed's big lies in the end.
When they launched F2P, the servers were totally separate. It was actually a better deal to pay $15 per month on the sub servers than on the F2P servers. Smed stated early on that this would not change.
Boom, some time later, all servers were combined into the F2P or Sub model. Doing exactly what we were told would not happen.
So, given that, I would not get my hopes up. They are enjoying the money people are willing to spend in that damn cash shop, whether they are subbed or not.
And yes, it's a little pathetic that I'm still looking forward to info on EQN.
The F2P model is friendly and inviting to newcomers, it allows people to join and experience the game without committing a subscription fee to unlock things they might not necessarily enjoy. Anyone who wants to play a game long term, or really enjoys a game, would prefer a subscription to allow access to all content without picking and choosing. It seems really simple and logical to have both options available.
I find it extremely funny that people would want to segregate themselves because of the experiences/impact of a F2P gamer. If they segregated servers, the subscription servers would find themselves with a lower flow of new players. More gamers on an MMO is a good thing, it adds live content to the worlds. The best example would be experiencing a zone by yourself vs experiencing a zone with 20-30 players. Things are happening in a chaotic and live environment and sometimes you stumble across something interesting.
Its my advice for people afraid of F2P to consider enjoying the game for your own reasons and not focusing on how other players will effect you in such short term, nonsensical ways.
People on here saying they wouldn't want to play with f2p players and then calling them peasants, well to be honest i wouldn't want to play with 99% of the people on this site anyway.
That said, they already did this with EQ2, it was one of Smed's big lies in the end.
When they launched F2P, the servers were totally separate. It was actually a better deal to pay $15 per month on the sub servers than on the F2P servers. Smed stated early on that this would not change.
Boom, some time later, all servers were combined into the F2P or Sub model. Doing exactly what we were told would not happen.
So, given that, I would not get my hopes up. They are enjoying the money people are willing to spend in that damn cash shop, whether they are subbed or not.
And yes, it's a little pathetic that I'm still looking forward to info on EQN.
Why do you care how others spend their money?
*shrug* .. I don't. Just stating the facts, sir.
So if i spend 15 bucks a month on cash shop vanity items and you spend 15 bucks a month on a subscription, what is the difference?
15$/month is cheap. Its about the only thing in the last decade not to go up 300% in price. Its one of the cheapest forms of entertainment on the market. I don't understand how people say they cant afford 15/month but go out and drop money on cash shops, always have the "fastest and most advanced" rig on the forums, have the fastest internet connection, and brag about all kinds of other things that cost lots of money..............but can not afford 15$?
For 50 cents a day, all content free, no p2w, make or train my mounts over buying them, not having to buy bags, slots, characters, things that can be crafted easily, and game companies trying to milk me for every little stupid thing.............. its more than worth it.
But F2P is free you don't need anything off the cash shop............... as more and more games go free, more and more luxuries and items needed to have equal grounds as others go on the shop. Its not free, unless you want gimped.
If F2P was so great...... why do you guys jump from game to game so fast? Why are these games that go F2P still suffering?
But F2P is making more money than sub games............. well when you have 3000 F2P games and only 20 sub games, anyone with a brain and use of logic can tell you this will happen. Doesn't make F2P games better!
The pay model has nothing to do with a god MMORPG, if the game sucks the pay model wont matter. Most these games are second rate and resort to F2P to get more people. Honestly F2P is a crutch, not a solution. We need better MMORPG's and the new aged eye candy, fluff, and poor story lines just don't cut it!
Give me my REAL mmorpg's back and stop catering to the console kiddies, that's what ruined mmorpg's in the first place!
Games are changing with the times and if they don't they will die. Your attitude is one of the problem with the supposed 'elite' MMO players - basic utter arrogance and hogwash tied up in one attitude package. The games will never go back to the way they were and I hope they don't. Ever hear of evolution?
Elitism? No. Just facts. MMORPG's today are nothing but glorified console rpgs now. They lack almost all features that made a mmorpg a mmorpg.They have no longevity, no value, no concept of earning something, poor crafting, poor to no housing, exploration is lost, and social aspect is gone............................ That's what you call changing with time? No its called killing a mmorpg, and that's why we have been in a 8+ year rut of horrible games and major failures!
Evolution is to go forward and to evolve into something better, not backwards as mmorpg have!
You say arrogance and hogwash, yet the industry is suffering, people aren't happy, and more games and companies have failed, gone bankrupt, or sold out in the past 4 years than the last 20 in mmorpg history? Yeah ok!
Completely agree with Onomas statements and his reply, you sir are dead on. 15/mo is nothing, its the same price as when i was 13 asking for my mothers CC so i could play Everquest. Couldn't have worded today's MMORPG market any better. They're all below average products with zero lasting power, so they change to F2P to milk players of a few bucks here and there because the game is nowhere near the cost of a box + sub fee.
A couple pages back someone mentioned SOE doesn't do Sub-based games anymore -- Everquests 1-2, as well as Vanguard all have 15/mo sub options. Everquest 1 has progression servers that are off-limits to free players.
They're projecting this game to be the biggest sandbox of all time, backed by the biggest name in MMORPG of all time, the most anticipated MMO in almost 10 years since Everquest 2 / World of Warcraft should have no problem maintaining several Premium-only servers at launch.
This game is like a last hurrah for MMOs to me, I hope its everything i want it to be.
I hope its everything i want it to be.
This is why people on these forums are so unhappy. No game will ever be everything you want it to be. And what's more, is that everything you want a game to be isn't necessarily what someone else wants a game to be. You might share some similar desires, but you'd be surprised how little things can change someone's mind from "I love this" to "worst game ever".
The F2P model is friendly and inviting to newcomers, it allows people to join and experience the game without committing a subscription fee to unlock things they might not necessarily enjoy. Anyone who wants to play a game long term, or really enjoys a game, would prefer a subscription to allow access to all content without picking and choosing. It seems really simple and logical to have both options available.
I find it extremely funny that people would want to segregate themselves because of the experiences/impact of a F2P gamer. If they segregated servers, the subscription servers would find themselves with a lower flow of new players. More gamers on an MMO is a good thing, it adds live content to the worlds. The best example would be experiencing a zone by yourself vs experiencing a zone with 20-30 players. Things are happening in a chaotic and live environment and sometimes you stumble across something interesting.
Its my advice for people afraid of F2P to consider enjoying the game for your own reasons and not focusing on how other players will effect you in such short term, nonsensical ways.
I am not downing F2P players. I am an F2P player in a couple of games. But games i really want, my hobbies, iw ant the option f being an ethusitiast or hobbiest at. I like smaller servers. Just makes for a tighter community, and not one where people are just "trying it out". I essentially want a game that will let me marry and not just date.
The F2P model is friendly and inviting to newcomers, it allows people to join and experience the game without committing a subscription fee to unlock things they might not necessarily enjoy. Anyone who wants to play a game long term, or really enjoys a game, would prefer a subscription to allow access to all content without picking and choosing. It seems really simple and logical to have both options available.
I find it extremely funny that people would want to segregate themselves because of the experiences/impact of a F2P gamer. If they segregated servers, the subscription servers would find themselves with a lower flow of new players. More gamers on an MMO is a good thing, it adds live content to the worlds. The best example would be experiencing a zone by yourself vs experiencing a zone with 20-30 players. Things are happening in a chaotic and live environment and sometimes you stumble across something interesting.
Its my advice for people afraid of F2P to consider enjoying the game for your own reasons and not focusing on how other players will effect you in such short term, nonsensical ways.
Maybe i'm old-school but, buying the game and paying the box fee is my idea of your trial. All games used to give you a free month of gameplay, during which you could decide how much you enjoyed it. If you're hooked, you bust out the credit card and start paying 15/mo to continue. If you don't think its worth it, you don't sub.
I've probably purchased 10-15 MMOs in the past 10 years that didn't satisfy me enough to sub, or kept me for only one additional month. I'll add most of which still provided me with enough hours of entertainment to justify me paying the box fee to give it a try. Hell how many people buy Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, or other single player titles that have measly re-play value and are beatable with a week or two? I don't understand how these games can justify a box fee but MMOs have to offer free trials.
Since this is another F2P vs P2P gamer thread, I'll use my usual response cause it hits home here as well:
One of my posts that I made in February:
"I pray that no company lets a person get from level 1 to end game content without paying a cent. These people will then see no worth in putting money up since they can get it freely anyhow.
Then those type of people will flock to the game since it takes nothing out of pocket for them. Then it will become a rabbit hole.
While good honest gamers will be fitting the bill to allow them to play...better give us an advantage over those who pay nothing to play...end of story."
As a caveat I see a lot of players posting usual "sub" threads are now posting as pro-F2P. That's what will happen eventually the subs will stop and the cash flow will stop and then they will come looking for more cash from the normal freep gamers. Then we'll see a change in gaming altogether I think. Pay per login perhaps?
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
just a bit snobbish lol i play alot of games f2p, ive had my fairshare of subbing and nothing is worth it anymore, but i get where your coming from, alot of f2p players are obnoxious but the rest aren't at all that way.
Since this is another F2P vs P2P gamer thread, I'll use my usual response cause it hits home here as well:
One of my posts that I made in February:
"I pray that no company lets a person get from level 1 to end game content without paying a cent. These people will then see no worth in putting money up since they can get it freely anyhow.
Then those type of people will flock to the game since it takes nothing out of pocket for them. Then it will become a rabbit hole.
While good honest gamers will be fitting the bill to allow them to play...better give us an advantage over those who pay nothing to play...end of story." th
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
Since this is another F2P vs P2P gamer thread, I'll use my usual response cause it hits home here as well:
One of my posts that I made in February:
"I pray that no company lets a person get from level 1 to end game content without paying a cent. These people will then see no worth in putting money up since they can get it freely anyhow.
Then those type of people will flock to the game since it takes nothing out of pocket for them. Then it will become a rabbit hole.
While good honest gamers will be fitting the bill to allow them to play...better give us an advantage over those who pay nothing to play...end of story." th
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
That is what I find outright hillarious about you freeps. Since when is your dollar worth more then a dollar? lol.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
just a bit snobbish lol i play alot of games f2p, ive had my fairshare of subbing and nothing is worth it anymore, but i get where your coming from, alot of f2p players are obnoxious but the rest aren't at all that way.
Modern MMO culture is very snobbish these days. This is way i am glad they are becoming more solo focused.
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
What if the game isn't poorly developed? Would you sub then? Its a different discussion, you're talking about subbing to failed games which turned F2P, i'm discussing subbing to the biggest sandbox game of all time. If it turns out to be an amazing game, you still want it to be free?
Since this is another F2P vs P2P gamer thread, I'll use my usual response cause it hits home here as well:
One of my posts that I made in February:
"I pray that no company lets a person get from level 1 to end game content without paying a cent. These people will then see no worth in putting money up since they can get it freely anyhow.
Then those type of people will flock to the game since it takes nothing out of pocket for them. Then it will become a rabbit hole.
While good honest gamers will be fitting the bill to allow them to play...better give us an advantage over those who pay nothing to play...end of story." th
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
That is what I find outright hillarious about you freeps. Since when is your dollar worth more then a dollar? lol.
The way you talk it sounds like you think your dollar is worth more..i have probably sub to more mmo's than you, i just don't see the value in subbing for the same bloody game with a different name on the box. Maybe you are still on that treadmill but i fell off a while ago.
Originally posted by The1ceQueen I'd rather play on a server with people that pay a monthly fee, I generally don't like the F2P or B2P crowd which is why I avoid F2P and B2P games. A bit snobbish? Maybe, but I really don't like playing an mmo with those obnoxious folks.
just a bit snobbish lol i play alot of games f2p, ive had my fairshare of subbing and nothing is worth it anymore, but i get where your coming from, alot of f2p players are obnoxious but the rest aren't at all that way.
Modern MMO culture is very snobbish these days. This is way i am glad they are becoming more solo focused.
It's about darn flipping time you freeps realize that.
A lot and I mean a whole lot of people that are "sub" minded aka not freeps, play MMOs with no sense of escapism nor being social leeches, they get enough of that in the real world. They play a game to group and kill stuff and craft.
So, do a 180 and go back to freeps. They complain all the time that they want some genuinely lovey-dovey gamers to group with them and thank them for every heal or ever tank that they provide for them.
Switch back to the sub-minded gamers. They play in a world where they can see you, but don't need you beyond your skillset...be it the holy trinity or some sort of support role. When they need you they can pull you in their ranks for you to do your job or they can go to another and/or ask in the game's General chat. Beyond that they stay solo and maybe see you ever once in a while fighting a mob or running somewheres but you are "them" and the more freeps there are the more "them" they see so they know they can in the future have enough people to party with so me personally, can get through the end game content and be a king of loot.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
What if the game isn't poorly developed? Would you sub then? Its a different discussion, you're talking about subbing to failed games which turned F2P, i'm discussing subbing to the biggest sandbox game of all time. If it turns out to be an amazing game, you still want it to be free?
I would sub to an mmo that actually revolutionized the genre, that's the only way i'll sub again..im tired of paying for the same game all the time. It has been over 10 years now and nothing has changed, maybe f2p is the kick in the ass the genre needs.It might make developers develop mmo's that are worth a sub.
Plus i am sick of paying a monthly sub for new raid content every couple of months, raiding is the most boring part of an mmo but thats all you get for your sub. No Thanks.
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
What if the game isn't poorly developed? Would you sub then? Its a different discussion, you're talking about subbing to failed games which turned F2P, i'm discussing subbing to the biggest sandbox game of all time. If it turns out to be an amazing game, you still want it to be free?
I would sub to an mmo that actually revolutionized the genre, that's the only way i'll sub again..im tired of paying for the same game all the time. It has been over 10 years now and nothing has changed, maybe f2p is the kick in the ass the genre needs.It might make developers develop mmo's that are worth a sub.
See that right there. It requires more "worth" to your dollar aka your dollar is worth more then mine I guess. "Revolutionize"? Strange you decided to make the one word you know nothing could match up to and hide behind it as a freep.
It's alright I need you to heal for me. =]
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
Comments
Elitism? No. Just facts. MMORPG's today are nothing but glorified console rpgs now. They lack almost all features that made a mmorpg a mmorpg.They have no longevity, no value, no concept of earning something, poor crafting, poor to no housing, exploration is lost, and social aspect is gone............................ That's what you call changing with time? No its called killing a mmorpg, and that's why we have been in a 8+ year rut of horrible games and major failures!
Evolution is to go forward and to evolve into something better, not backwards as mmorpg have!
You say arrogance and hogwash, yet the industry is suffering, people aren't happy, and more games and companies have failed, gone bankrupt, or sold out in the past 4 years than the last 20 in mmorpg history? Yeah ok!
I beg to differ. And its not that game's are changing, it's that game companies are getting bigger and are trying to make Walmart games, one shop for everyone.
There is always hope. Indie studios are still making great games and simply signing on publishing agreements. This assures that at least we will get a small but steady stream of innovative games that still cater to "niche" fans.
I'm looking forward to info on EQN.
That said, they already did this with EQ2, it was one of Smed's big lies in the end.
When they launched F2P, the servers were totally separate. It was actually a better deal to pay $15 per month on the sub servers than on the F2P servers. Smed stated early on that this would not change.
Boom, some time later, all servers were combined into the F2P or Sub model. Doing exactly what we were told would not happen.
So, given that, I would not get my hopes up. They are enjoying the money people are willing to spend in that damn cash shop, whether they are subbed or not.
And yes, it's a little pathetic that I'm still looking forward to info on EQN.
Longevity? I will give you an example - people playing over 5K hours in GW2 and it hasn't been out for 9 months, complaining there is nothing to do? I played GW1 for 6 years and had only 3.5K hours in the game and I thought I was playing too much. Get real! The problem is the average person, on this forum, plays games like a job, not like a game.
How is the industry suffering? Where? Give me details? Could it be the fact that the world economy is down and people DON'T have money in their pockets for frivilous stuff, like games? Also, it takes more money to produce games, so you need MORE people to play them. It is just facts. The same thing happened with the automobile industry, without the US government saving GM and Chrysler, these companies would have died. It happens. It has nothing to do with the industry and more to do with the evolution of the industry. Those who evolve survive, those who don't perish.
Your OPINION that MMO's have gone backwards, not mine. They have just evolved and are trying to attract more players. After all, the gaming companies have to make money to survive. They are not charities.
It's an issue of differences of culture and upbringing. 'Tis something I oft struggle with; I was very much in agreement with you up until 10 years ago or so. Though what opened my eyes was when I opened my mind (definitely not to imply that you don't have an open mind, but rather to explain my own turning point). Worldly experiences and extensive research on the follies of mankind as well as our trek unto the what is considered by physicist Michio Kaku to be the "first level of civilization" (in that a planet is unified and fully exploiting it's resources).
Its in his own assertions that I see the logic and outright correct reasoning of what you're saying. The world is now about money, and we cannot avoid that. We need to embrace it if we are to advance as a species. Though at the same time, we lose ourselves in our own arrogance. In our thought processes that only pertains to ourselves. We are selfish creatures, yes, but not always inherently. Many cultures have changed because it was our will; because we said we were correct. That there is no other way, and they should not remain uncivilized savages. These are realistic statements in today's world, but they were first brought about by our own mindsets in that we just know what's best for those who aren't as technologically advanced as we are.
Except that, we don't always know best. We just think we do. Again, I must say that I struggle in this every day, as even though I dedicated much of my life and studies to these subjects and these thoughts, my view points must always be open to those of different cultures and upbringings lest I be guilty of the same (not to imply that I'm not anyway). There is a quote I used to say, in that I'm probably the most ignorant person in the world... as I believe in the human's ability to learn and to accept foreign views. The internet itself is... a huge obstacle in that, as it continuously proves me wrong. WIth ease of access, we lose ourselves; with money we lose ourselves. We become lazy to the truths of the world; we believe the first thing we say, or to who seems like the victim of something. We cling to something that will give us and our group benefits. We prey on the lazy to send a message to the masses.
Many even attack you for stating an opinion. The quote "fact does not need fiction to be true" is becoming less powerful, as lies are more powerful than truth. Lies are easy to spread, while truth needs context and an articulate pen. Lies are something we can believe in without working for, whilst truth is something that requires a hard day's work. "And the meek shall inherit the world". It's something to think about, whether one is a scholar of such (though let's not talk about religion as that is something where I think just about everyone agrees is a right of an individual to believe or not).
Though... as a whole, what all this pertains to the topic at hand is that in everything we do -- be it video gaming or something else -- there is this distinction. It's artificial. It's a lie. The dollar itself is worthless, as it only has worth because we as a collective group say it does. There was a time when you could exchange it for actual gold, but we have since been taken off the gold standard. Gaming has a value because we say it does; there are people willing to play it. If there are people willing to pay payment models, then it is worth it. Except that the P2P model itself is faultering. Friends are being split by dozens of games (many that could simpy have been single player games), and most people are starting to play multiple games at once. This will lead to a natural split of consumers (years ago I predicted in my research the next generation of consoles will have big name MMOs to provide "newblood" to supplement the genre and avoid a partialcollapse; that the line between MMO and online games will be blurred as technology wanes and games will come out that milk the consumer base as much, for the least possible effort).
Therefore the assertion that money equates high society or ample maturity, or even intellectuals, ignores all facets of humanity and only embraces what one (in my opinion) wants to see. What is the value of having a large family, of a hard day's work knowing you supported your loved ones? Without going into much rhetoric on that matter, it's the same as the value we give it. The same as the value we give anything. That whole "you're rich, because you have a loving family" statement that we all seem to forget in our search for a worthless piece of paper. Those stories of people having money, but no friends and feeling like they're poor; even the rich youth being snobby that is stereotyped and tends to become social media (again, one outlet manipulating human nature... in the same way F2P would, if you think about it).
Now allow me to give you a "wow" moment in the following:
Let's look at F2P now, since that was brought up. How is it that so many people can play a game for free and not spend a dime? That some games come out with all their content available? It's because they depend on the rich. The rich single handily support this model; they spend tens of thousands of dollars just to get a few advantages here and there. These are the people "with the money". These are the people that I have read you say you want to play with. $15 would be nothing to them, so if they wanted to play that game they would. Those with money are supporting the path that gets them the most advantage. These are the people with money that you want to play alongside. The ones that have 40 accounts on WoW, and hire a butler to play them all to get 20,000 gold a day in dailies and who hire entire guilds to run heroics and pass items to them.
No, the people I think you're referring to are the ones who are hard working. Because hard work is valuable (and more indicative of a hard working community in game as opposed to wanting things handed to them). Some hard workers make more useless paper than others, but does that actually devalue them as a person you would want to associate with? Truly? This is why options are important; B2P and even specialized P2P whereby the consumer doesn't feel ripped off (in that there are other games that are cheaper / in that we have to accept this if we want to save the genre / in that the value is in the person and not of their net worth). Indeed, I've wrote papers in the past whereby I realized I spent almost four thousand dollars on a game I can no longer play (wow; multiple accounts / fees since day one / expansions for accounts / services such as transfers and naming). This was a realization that I no longer like the current P2P model -- that it was archaic -- and such a thing led me to do more research on why it was failing (and that I had ample things to look forward to with the genre if it either couldn't survive or stayed as it was).
Aside from all of that, forgive me if there were any negative implications towards you above. They are unintended if such is true. The prospects of P2P are something that should be salvaged in some way. Just as F2P needs to be (in my opinion) fixed and B2P expanded upon (especially for the console generation that has been trained in buying single player games and paying microtransactions... which is what we're seeing today in the genre... not to mention the announcement that next consoles will fully support the F2P model).
Why do you care how others spend their money?
*shrug* .. I don't. Just stating the facts, sir.
The F2P model is friendly and inviting to newcomers, it allows people to join and experience the game without committing a subscription fee to unlock things they might not necessarily enjoy. Anyone who wants to play a game long term, or really enjoys a game, would prefer a subscription to allow access to all content without picking and choosing. It seems really simple and logical to have both options available.
I find it extremely funny that people would want to segregate themselves because of the experiences/impact of a F2P gamer. If they segregated servers, the subscription servers would find themselves with a lower flow of new players. More gamers on an MMO is a good thing, it adds live content to the worlds. The best example would be experiencing a zone by yourself vs experiencing a zone with 20-30 players. Things are happening in a chaotic and live environment and sometimes you stumble across something interesting.
Its my advice for people afraid of F2P to consider enjoying the game for your own reasons and not focusing on how other players will effect you in such short term, nonsensical ways.
So if i spend 15 bucks a month on cash shop vanity items and you spend 15 bucks a month on a subscription, what is the difference?
Completely agree with Onomas statements and his reply, you sir are dead on. 15/mo is nothing, its the same price as when i was 13 asking for my mothers CC so i could play Everquest. Couldn't have worded today's MMORPG market any better. They're all below average products with zero lasting power, so they change to F2P to milk players of a few bucks here and there because the game is nowhere near the cost of a box + sub fee.
A couple pages back someone mentioned SOE doesn't do Sub-based games anymore -- Everquests 1-2, as well as Vanguard all have 15/mo sub options. Everquest 1 has progression servers that are off-limits to free players.
They're projecting this game to be the biggest sandbox of all time, backed by the biggest name in MMORPG of all time, the most anticipated MMO in almost 10 years since Everquest 2 / World of Warcraft should have no problem maintaining several Premium-only servers at launch.
This is why people on these forums are so unhappy. No game will ever be everything you want it to be. And what's more, is that everything you want a game to be isn't necessarily what someone else wants a game to be. You might share some similar desires, but you'd be surprised how little things can change someone's mind from "I love this" to "worst game ever".
I am not downing F2P players. I am an F2P player in a couple of games. But games i really want, my hobbies, iw ant the option f being an ethusitiast or hobbiest at. I like smaller servers. Just makes for a tighter community, and not one where people are just "trying it out". I essentially want a game that will let me marry and not just date.
Maybe i'm old-school but, buying the game and paying the box fee is my idea of your trial. All games used to give you a free month of gameplay, during which you could decide how much you enjoyed it. If you're hooked, you bust out the credit card and start paying 15/mo to continue. If you don't think its worth it, you don't sub.
I've probably purchased 10-15 MMOs in the past 10 years that didn't satisfy me enough to sub, or kept me for only one additional month. I'll add most of which still provided me with enough hours of entertainment to justify me paying the box fee to give it a try. Hell how many people buy Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, or other single player titles that have measly re-play value and are beatable with a week or two? I don't understand how these games can justify a box fee but MMOs have to offer free trials.
Since this is another F2P vs P2P gamer thread, I'll use my usual response cause it hits home here as well:
One of my posts that I made in February:
"I pray that no company lets a person get from level 1 to end game content without paying a cent. These people will then see no worth in putting money up since they can get it freely anyhow.
Then those type of people will flock to the game since it takes nothing out of pocket for them. Then it will become a rabbit hole.
While good honest gamers will be fitting the bill to allow them to play...better give us an advantage over those who pay nothing to play...end of story."
As a caveat I see a lot of players posting usual "sub" threads are now posting as pro-F2P. That's what will happen eventually the subs will stop and the cash flow will stop and then they will come looking for more cash from the normal freep gamers. Then we'll see a change in gaming altogether I think. Pay per login perhaps?
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
just a bit snobbish lol i play alot of games f2p, ive had my fairshare of subbing and nothing is worth it anymore, but i get where your coming from, alot of f2p players are obnoxious but the rest aren't at all that way.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
if i can get it for free i'll take it, doesn't bother me. i'll let the rest of you obsess over how paying a sub for poorly developed games is the way to go. All your epeens shrink at the mention of f2p and i find it hilarious.
That is what I find outright hillarious about you freeps. Since when is your dollar worth more then a dollar? lol.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
Modern MMO culture is very snobbish these days. This is way i am glad they are becoming more solo focused.
What if the game isn't poorly developed? Would you sub then? Its a different discussion, you're talking about subbing to failed games which turned F2P, i'm discussing subbing to the biggest sandbox game of all time. If it turns out to be an amazing game, you still want it to be free?
The way you talk it sounds like you think your dollar is worth more..i have probably sub to more mmo's than you, i just don't see the value in subbing for the same bloody game with a different name on the box. Maybe you are still on that treadmill but i fell off a while ago.
It's about darn flipping time you freeps realize that.
A lot and I mean a whole lot of people that are "sub" minded aka not freeps, play MMOs with no sense of escapism nor being social leeches, they get enough of that in the real world. They play a game to group and kill stuff and craft.
So, do a 180 and go back to freeps. They complain all the time that they want some genuinely lovey-dovey gamers to group with them and thank them for every heal or ever tank that they provide for them.
Switch back to the sub-minded gamers. They play in a world where they can see you, but don't need you beyond your skillset...be it the holy trinity or some sort of support role. When they need you they can pull you in their ranks for you to do your job or they can go to another and/or ask in the game's General chat. Beyond that they stay solo and maybe see you ever once in a while fighting a mob or running somewheres but you are "them" and the more freeps there are the more "them" they see so they know they can in the future have enough people to party with so me personally, can get through the end game content and be a king of loot.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog
I would sub to an mmo that actually revolutionized the genre, that's the only way i'll sub again..im tired of paying for the same game all the time. It has been over 10 years now and nothing has changed, maybe f2p is the kick in the ass the genre needs.It might make developers develop mmo's that are worth a sub.
Plus i am sick of paying a monthly sub for new raid content every couple of months, raiding is the most boring part of an mmo but thats all you get for your sub. No Thanks.
See that right there. It requires more "worth" to your dollar aka your dollar is worth more then mine I guess. "Revolutionize"? Strange you decided to make the one word you know nothing could match up to and hide behind it as a freep.
It's alright I need you to heal for me. =]
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog