Sums up why I never buy new games, the only people who really fall victim to this are those who must play on day one (or before). Wait for the GOY edition, the F2p to launch or what have you. They feed off of the impulse buyer...
To me it seems like buying into any game on the outset is a gamble, its rare you get a launch that is problem free, but if you are prepared to be patient and wait it out for the game your interested in to settle down and get the numerous bug fixes that they always seem to need, then that is probably the best time to buy into a game.
Personally i think all MMO's should have a 'try before you buy' or at least a 1 week free trial period, but given how often those are exploited by gold farmers etc, i can see why some don't.
How many more generations of games will people actually go in with fingers crossed saying "subs are better, subs are better ,subs are better"...only to quit a month in.
I think a lot of people in this thread don't know they're the butt of some of those jokes.
I agree,far to much blame is directed at game developers and publishers,when in truth it's the gamers themselves who no longer act like normal consumers.Time and time again on this site I see countless people justifying and supporting dreadful business practices,not able to see them selves as "Whales",convinced they are some how supporting the industry when in reality they are being treated like cash cows and destroying basic consumer friendly practices in the process.
Let those who believe in this stereotype make "so true" , "+1" posts
Reality
1. DLCs are made AFTER the game is released - yes they are planned before but are actually coded and developed post launch
2. F2P - again not every F2P model is the same - some mobile games are notorious for having you pay to keep playing - actual MMORPGs that force you to pay to be able to play for free are not common
3. Paid early access - lets devs have a dedicated fanbase give them feedback during Alpha - this is HUGE for a dev studio as it lets them change features and even focus of the game (example - Trove - the player feedback has changed many key features drastically)
There is always another side to every stereotype
1. Capcom says hi! Elder Scrolls Online also fits the bill with the Imperial edition (oh sorry that is not DLC according to people).
2. MMORPGS may not not mandate that consumers pay but to say they don't go to great lengths to incentivise it is misleading, many F2P games heavily restrict later segments of the game in order to force players to participate in their stores or purchase access.
3. Remember the days when people would hire testers and pay them to find problems and provide feedback? The problem with how it's done now is while there are fans who will provide feedback many are simply interested in playing the game and finding ways to get ahead come release. Player feedback can also be a negative as players have proven time and again what is asked for is not always what is wanted. Paid early access is a farce of a concept for the consumer, milking those with little patience and surplus cash...don't get me wrong it's great for the business, I'm just at a loss why consumers defend it.
Don't get me wrong, the blame doesn't lie with the businesses, it lies with the consumers. The businesses are merely doing what they are being told is ok by the consumer base.
Let those who believe in this stereotype make "so true" , "+1" posts
Reality
1. DLCs are made AFTER the game is released - yes they are planned before but are actually coded and developed post launch
2. F2P - again not every F2P model is the same - some mobile games are notorious for having you pay to keep playing - actual MMORPGs that force you to pay to be able to play for free are not common
3. Paid early access - lets devs have a dedicated fanbase give them feedback during Alpha - this is HUGE for a dev studio as it lets them change features and even focus of the game (example - Trove - the player feedback has changed many key features drastically)
There is always another side to every stereotype
I am in total agreement here, DMKano. It never ceases to amaze me how venomous some folks can be. All of this that we see on a poorly executed cartoon is about choice. The last time I checked we have freedom of choice.Thus, if a gamer does not support this type of marketing simply do not take part.
However, I suppose it is sadly the sign of the first two decades of the 21st century, that tear down and protest, protest, protest. Conspiracy theories fly like pidgeons of fear and loathing.
Coins do have two sides turn it over and study it...
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Let those who believe in this stereotype make "so true" , "+1" posts
Reality
1. DLCs are made AFTER the game is released - yes they are planned before but are actually coded and developed post launch
2. F2P - again not every F2P model is the same - some mobile games are notorious for having you pay to keep playing - actual MMORPGs that force you to pay to be able to play for free are not common
3. Paid early access - lets devs have a dedicated fanbase give them feedback during Alpha - this is HUGE for a dev studio as it lets them change features and even focus of the game (example - Trove - the player feedback has changed many key features drastically)
There is always another side to every stereotype
I am in total agreement here, DMKano. It never ceases to amaze me how venomous some folks can be. All of this that we see on a poorly executed cartoon is about choice. The last time I checked we have freedom of choice.Thus, if a gamer does not support this type of marketing simply do not take part.
However, I suppose it is sadly the sign of the first two decades of the 21st century, that tear down and protest, protest, protest. Conspiracy theories fly like pidgeons of fear and loathing.
Coins do have two sides turn it over and study it...
Alyn
Capcom release a game,then charge for DLC,the DLC content you download is actually on the game disc....how can a company justify that.
I cringe when people want to label themselves a gamer like they are some sort of collective people who has had something bad happen to them. Truth of the matter is that you don't have to support these games and companies if you feel it is unfair. At the end of the day, people would rather give in to the terms than be without some unimportant video game.
There are plenty of games out there with honorable dlc/early access/F2P that don't skimp out on making a bad experience. This comic assumes all DLC is chopped content. A lot of content from plenty of games IS actually being developed post release, and thus are fairly being sold.
If this comic was about pre-order exclusives and console/platform exclusive content/beta access, I would tend to agree with the point being given more. But even that, it still holds true.
I still remember the Left 4 Dead 2 boycots... Abysmal entitled behavior. Gamers are not developers so they don't have to care about markups and profits. It's always just "F*** you, give me this for free you capitalist son of a B".
I don't think there is anything wrong with voting with your wallet. For example I never buy games with DLC passes. It just automatically puts me off paying 50 USD on top of the 60 I already put forth.
This is why I always favored paying the Box Price and a subscription. I always spent less than on a F2P game Period. But F2P gamers who love this model honestly dont spend money on it they love that people spend money so they who are free can play the game. Thats why I dont play Neverwinter and never will. I loved the game but will not spend $10 everytime I need to open 10 more chest for gear. Just not going to happen.
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Originally posted by StrayfeOriginally posted by ArChWindNext up.Pay to design and built it for me.
You mean EQ Next Landmark? Yeah, we're already there. The reason you hear so little about EQN is because the game is actually being built by the players in Landmark, and they're paying to do it.Are the players doing the coding too? Or designing the combat system and AI. Are they designing the geography of the world and writing the story? Did they develop the tools and voxel tech being used in Landmark and EQN? What about the Animations, voice acting, facial recognition emotes. Are they developing the physics of the game? Do they determine what the stats of armors and characters will be and the math that goes behind? Does Landmark let players develop the sound effects and music?
How did the players develop landmark before they had access to landmark?
If you were to think outside the box here a bit then why are they spending all the resources going through the efforts to make all that?
Make the rich lore and the tools to allow the user base to do it for themselves. Let them build their own stories, own quests, let them control the AI. Set rules that need to be followed and keep it in check. Much talent is going to waste where people have talent but not the tools and the lore to do it.
Also, look at it from a new perspective. Social media is advancing faster than MMO games so stop making a game and start making a real sandbox. I am sure many will see it as was put to me 'What?! have them build it themselves?' but the real next thing is a sandbox built and controlled by the user base.
Some developer someday will take the leap of faith and go all the way and they will not make millions but more like billions.
that picture was pretty much made for the current state of the gaming industry as a whole. Not just people on this site.
That is a very accurate representation of it.
I remember when games launched as a finished product, and DLC/Expansion packs actually expanded the game. Now we have incomplete games, and buy the missing parts as DLC/Expansion packs. Ubi, EA, Activision are the three biggest culprits of these practices for non-mmo games. I cant remember the last time i bought a dlc for any of their games, i vote with my wallet.
But the thing is, you people are to blame for that. You all say this above here that those games are are incomplete and sold the pieces as DLC,
well ill what about very interesting unique games like MAG, that sold certain map modes and character slots in the shop, but was a very well complete game from the disk alone, yet you all didn't support that game over brand loyalty. The graphics wasn't great, but the gameplay sure was.
you people do a lot of talking, but really, all you people ever care about it brand loyalty now days. So the companies without that loyalty that do make the shit you all ask for, get no looks, or more criticism even if their game has the same amount of bugs as all those brand loyalty games you all praise so much.
You mean EQ Next Landmark? Yeah, we're already there. The reason you hear so little about EQN is because the game is actually being built by the players in Landmark, and they're paying to do it.
No, that's called a graphical Minecraft.
the concept of players themselves doing any sort of non-developer-predesigned building is a popular fantasy among gamers, especially MMO gamers, which lo key, originated directly from the days of Table Top, or from one of the many offspring of Table Top RPG .
the thing is, that this hasn't been doable to this level due to tech requirements and engine requirements.
also you have to keep in mind, that in the traditional THEMEPARK model of MMO, the main appeal for the PvE (excluding THEMEPARK PvP here, because it has a different appeal) is always the content MADE BY THE DEVELOPERS. The problem is, the developers don't have the resources to both fix bugs, and trying to build new features and expansions of the game, while also recreating brand new versions of the old stuff.
so why not give the players themselves the tools to make more and new versions of the Old Stuff, I,E : Dungeons, Landmasses,, Quest, Events, Stuctures for gameplay, etc?
it may not be as good, but it gives developers time they need to make higher quality stuff.
Little Big Planet is a good example of what I mean here. It allows players to make maps and modes for gameplay, which keeps the population entertained while the developers dish out more of the higher quality stuff between gaps that were filled by the community.
this is from www.9gag.com , funny picture uploads, not gaming related, but this popped up and I had to share!
Funny, and sad, because it's true.
Sadder still, is the thought that people will see those cartoons, ponder on how true they are, feel some degree of irritation at it... while buying the next DLC, spending more in a Cash Shop, or what-have-you.
Just another way that gamers are their own worst enemies.
It is not sad if you are one of their exec swimming in huge bonuses.
Capcom release a game,then charge for DLC,the DLC content you download is actually on the game disc....how can a company justify that.
Why does Capcom has to justify anything? It is their property. They can sell it anyway they want in a free market. And games are luxury goods, not a necessity of life. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.
Comments
I agree,far to much blame is directed at game developers and publishers,when in truth it's the gamers themselves who no longer act like normal consumers.Time and time again on this site I see countless people justifying and supporting dreadful business practices,not able to see them selves as "Whales",convinced they are some how supporting the industry when in reality they are being treated like cash cows and destroying basic consumer friendly practices in the process.
1. Capcom says hi! Elder Scrolls Online also fits the bill with the Imperial edition (oh sorry that is not DLC according to people).
2. MMORPGS may not not mandate that consumers pay but to say they don't go to great lengths to incentivise it is misleading, many F2P games heavily restrict later segments of the game in order to force players to participate in their stores or purchase access.
3. Remember the days when people would hire testers and pay them to find problems and provide feedback? The problem with how it's done now is while there are fans who will provide feedback many are simply interested in playing the game and finding ways to get ahead come release. Player feedback can also be a negative as players have proven time and again what is asked for is not always what is wanted. Paid early access is a farce of a concept for the consumer, milking those with little patience and surplus cash...don't get me wrong it's great for the business, I'm just at a loss why consumers defend it.
Don't get me wrong, the blame doesn't lie with the businesses, it lies with the consumers. The businesses are merely doing what they are being told is ok by the consumer base.
I am in total agreement here, DMKano. It never ceases to amaze me how venomous some folks can be. All of this that we see on a poorly executed cartoon is about choice. The last time I checked we have freedom of choice.Thus, if a gamer does not support this type of marketing simply do not take part.
However, I suppose it is sadly the sign of the first two decades of the 21st century, that tear down and protest, protest, protest. Conspiracy theories fly like pidgeons of fear and loathing.
Coins do have two sides turn it over and study it...
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Capcom release a game,then charge for DLC,the DLC content you download is actually on the game disc....how can a company justify that.
If I'm understanding the grammar correctly, that would be Kickstarter and it's already here and not going anywhere.
I cringe when people want to label themselves a gamer like they are some sort of collective people who has had something bad happen to them. Truth of the matter is that you don't have to support these games and companies if you feel it is unfair. At the end of the day, people would rather give in to the terms than be without some unimportant video game.
There are plenty of games out there with honorable dlc/early access/F2P that don't skimp out on making a bad experience. This comic assumes all DLC is chopped content. A lot of content from plenty of games IS actually being developed post release, and thus are fairly being sold.
If this comic was about pre-order exclusives and console/platform exclusive content/beta access, I would tend to agree with the point being given more. But even that, it still holds true.
I still remember the Left 4 Dead 2 boycots... Abysmal entitled behavior. Gamers are not developers so they don't have to care about markups and profits. It's always just "F*** you, give me this for free you capitalist son of a B".
I don't think there is anything wrong with voting with your wallet. For example I never buy games with DLC passes. It just automatically puts me off paying 50 USD on top of the 60 I already put forth.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Thank you OP, the comics made me chuckle.
Sadly though none of it is a parody.
Are the players doing the coding too? Or designing the combat system and AI. Are they designing the geography of the world and writing the story? Did they develop the tools and voxel tech being used in Landmark and EQN? What about the Animations, voice acting, facial recognition emotes. Are they developing the physics of the game? Do they determine what the stats of armors and characters will be and the math that goes behind? Does Landmark let players develop the sound effects and music?
How did the players develop landmark before they had access to landmark?
If you were to think outside the box here a bit then why are they spending all the resources going through the efforts to make all that?
Make the rich lore and the tools to allow the user base to do it for themselves. Let them build their own stories, own quests, let them control the AI. Set rules that need to be followed and keep it in check. Much talent is going to waste where people have talent but not the tools and the lore to do it.
Also, look at it from a new perspective. Social media is advancing faster than MMO games so stop making a game and start making a real sandbox. I am sure many will see it as was put to me 'What?! have them build it themselves?' but the real next thing is a sandbox built and controlled by the user base.
Some developer someday will take the leap of faith and go all the way and they will not make millions but more like billions.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
this thread
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Can't breath from laughter
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
If this is the case then most the stand-up comedians I have ever seen and most TV comedy is also smug. Aaargh! I am surrounded by smugness.
But the thing is, you people are to blame for that. You all say this above here that those games are are incomplete and sold the pieces as DLC,
well ill what about very interesting unique games like MAG, that sold certain map modes and character slots in the shop, but was a very well complete game from the disk alone, yet you all didn't support that game over brand loyalty. The graphics wasn't great, but the gameplay sure was.
you people do a lot of talking, but really, all you people ever care about it brand loyalty now days. So the companies without that loyalty that do make the shit you all ask for, get no looks, or more criticism even if their game has the same amount of bugs as all those brand loyalty games you all praise so much.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
No, that's called a graphical Minecraft.
the concept of players themselves doing any sort of non-developer-predesigned building is a popular fantasy among gamers, especially MMO gamers, which lo key, originated directly from the days of Table Top, or from one of the many offspring of Table Top RPG .
the thing is, that this hasn't been doable to this level due to tech requirements and engine requirements.
also you have to keep in mind, that in the traditional THEMEPARK model of MMO, the main appeal for the PvE (excluding THEMEPARK PvP here, because it has a different appeal) is always the content MADE BY THE DEVELOPERS. The problem is, the developers don't have the resources to both fix bugs, and trying to build new features and expansions of the game, while also recreating brand new versions of the old stuff.
so why not give the players themselves the tools to make more and new versions of the Old Stuff, I,E : Dungeons, Landmasses,, Quest, Events, Stuctures for gameplay, etc?
it may not be as good, but it gives developers time they need to make higher quality stuff.
Little Big Planet is a good example of what I mean here. It allows players to make maps and modes for gameplay, which keeps the population entertained while the developers dish out more of the higher quality stuff between gaps that were filled by the community.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
It is not sad if you are one of their exec swimming in huge bonuses.
Why does Capcom has to justify anything? It is their property. They can sell it anyway they want in a free market. And games are luxury goods, not a necessity of life. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.
If they make a ton of money, more power to them.