What is the big deal...you can buy characters on the bazaar that have millions of SP all ready. Having a character capable of using a certain ship doesn't mean you're suddenly going to win ever encounter. If you don't know who to fit your ships and how to use them - you just wasted a ton of ISK for nothing.
And you guys love to tout your "SKILLZ" and PvP prowess. STF. PvP in eve is easy. There is only some skill involved, the actual ship, fit, and gear are just as important as is who you're fighting. Getting a lot of kills can be ridiculously easy when so many of pvp kills in EVE are against unready, unwilling participants. lol You can kill a fuckin frigate or interceptor or whatever like before they even knew what hit them. So yeah, tell me about how many fair, planned, 1v1 apples to apples fights you've won. Because there aren't any!
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight in EVE you've done something terribly wrong.
We're not playing games here, we are fighting wars.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People complained for many years about the unfair advantage veterans had versus new players because of the way EO's skill system was designed. Now, CCP allows people to buy characters and soon, skill points? Sounds to me like CCP is making money from what new players wanted all along. However, in the end, this will lead to a P2W ending since EO is a zerg game at heart and if you get enough whales flying capital ships, I guarantee this game will lose it's pizzaz.
It hasn't led to 'whales zerging in capital ships' for the past seven years. Why do you feel that would suddenly happen now
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
People complained for many years about the unfair advantage veterans had versus new players because of the way EO's skill system was designed. Now, CCP allows people to buy characters and soon, skill points? Sounds to me like CCP is making money from what new players wanted all along. However, in the end, this will lead to a P2W ending since EO is a zerg game at heart and if you get enough whales flying capital ships, I guarantee this game will lose it's pizzaz.
To be real about it, the whales have had SuperCarriers and Titans ever since PLEX was introduced. Buying a Super or Titan pilot on the character bazaar has always been a possibility.
Not only that, but with the diminishing returns on skill trading, you're still wayyyy better off buying a Super or Titan pilot from the bazaar than burning millions of SP's trying put your own character into one.
This is a game with extreme fanboys. You can't say anything negative or imply anything bad about this game without a very strong defense from their loyal player-base. Some players have literally spent their lives playing this game neglecting friends and family. The numbers however show the game is in decline and I feel sorry for the players who invested so much time to this game.
The real question will be.....Will those who actually buy these points start dominating the game or at least significantly elevate their status above those who don't within the game as a result?
This is a game with extreme fanboys. You can't say anything negative or imply anything bad about this game without a very strong defense from their loyal player-base. Some players have literally spent their lives playing this game neglecting friends and family. The numbers however show the game is in decline and I feel sorry for the players who invested so much time to this game.
Not really, EVE never really got this type of defenders.
Most people supporting EVE acknowledge the decline and CCP 's shortcomings, they are just vocal when it comes to ignorant and stupid complaints - P2W, community, no skill required, etc...
This is a game with extreme fanboys. You can't say anything negative or imply anything bad about this game without a very strong defense from their loyal player-base. Some players have literally spent their lives playing this game neglecting friends and family. The numbers however show the game is in decline and I feel sorry for the players who invested so much time to this game.
The responses seemed pretty civil. If you feel the posts here are a 'strong defense' or 'extreme fanboys' then do yourself a favor and avoid forums for most other MMOs. You'll be scarred for life.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This is a game with extreme fanboys. You can't say anything negative or imply anything bad about this game without a very strong defense from their loyal player-base. Some players have literally spent their lives playing this game neglecting friends and family. The numbers however show the game is in decline and I feel sorry for the players who invested so much time to this game.
That's really amusing of you to think this. EVE's biggest supporters are also it's biggest detractors. I love EVE, but I won't shy away from pointing out where it's lacking, or just plain shitty.
Luckily, there's so damn much to do in EVE, that if you don't like 4-5 things, then there are 4-5 things you probably will like.
Someone mentioned they are engrossed in their character? How can you take a character seriously in the game when you really don't have a character,just a screen with some picture on it.
also a character in what we are trying to perceive as a plausible realistic character in a living breathing world would NOT be designed around points...sigh.You as a character in ANY game,should learn skills by USING them,not any kind of skill points or putting check marks in boxes,Eve has got game design completely wrong. Sad that this type of design gets supported just because players need a pvp space sim fix,this game is not even good at that either,it is more a spreadsheet game design. Sadly all this hype behind SC will not change a thing,we will still be starving for a triple A space game,it is just too hard to do this genre correctly,it is like making 2-3 games instead of just 1 and developers are struggling to make one good game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Someone mentioned they are engrossed in their character? How can you take a character seriously in the game when you really don't have a character,just a screen with some picture on it.
also a character in what we are trying to perceive as a plausible realistic character in a living breathing world would NOT be designed around points...sigh.You as a character in ANY game,should learn skills by USING them,not any kind of skill points or putting check marks in boxes,Eve has got game design completely wrong. Sad that this type of design gets supported just because players need a pvp space sim fix,this game is not even good at that either,it is more a spreadsheet game design. Sadly all this hype behind SC will not change a thing,we will still be starving for a triple A space game,it is just too hard to do this genre correctly,it is like making 2-3 games instead of just 1 and developers are struggling to make one good game.
You do realize EVE has had avatars for over 4 years right? (Captain's Quarter's)
Most of what else you posted is equally incorrect.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is a game with extreme fanboys. You can't say anything negative or imply anything bad about this game without a very strong defense from their loyal player-base. Some players have literally spent their lives playing this game neglecting friends and family. The numbers however show the game is in decline and I feel sorry for the players who invested so much time to this game.
Actually nobody rips on ccp more than it's own player base. It's when scrublords like yourself and the OP start talking smack about something they know nothing about that gets folks defending the game.
If you want extream fanbois then Star Citizens forums are that way >>>>>>>
CCP is not desperate. EVE is not dying. More skill points does not equal more winning.
CCP is looking for a way to retain new players. During EVE Online's FanFest 2014 there was a presentation from one of the developers, CCP Rise, where he showed that only about 7% of new players end up becoming a part of the game's culture and staying in the game for years.
50% of them quit within a month and the other 40% play EVE solo until they get bored and quit after a few months.
One of the biggest complaints that new players give when they quit the game is that they feel that "they can never catch up" to the older players, or that they don't feel as useful due to their low skill cap.
This is a good way to remedy this issue, and it favors new players heavily. There's a heavy diminishing return applied to players with high amounts of skill points. Two of my characters, for instance, are over 160 million SP. More than double the diminishing return limit of 80 million.
I would end up spending a lot of money and burning a lot of extracted SP in order to add a measly 50,000 SP to my character. A new player, on the other hand, with less than 5 mill SP, would be able to add 500,000k SP to their character, which will enable them to do a lot more with their character.
The only issue I see here so far is in the pricing of this system and how it will influence the PLEX prices in the game.
Its still to be seen if it's a good way to keep newer players.
Really depends if player retention of 7% is mostly because of skill points. Could be, some skills are rediculously long.
Still that issue could have been solved by reconfiguring the skill tree to make it much quicker or changing to a grinding model.
Skills are now pretty much antiquated in EvE after so many years it doesn't quite make sense to be making new players face 2 years training for caps or even 6 months for BS (with excellent skills).
We all know that this will be bought by the already rich eve players instead of new players who barely are in a position to buy 1 ship of 50 million.
Unless said new player is already buying plex to sell and fund his carreer but then that player is also aware you can buy fully skilled characters of the bazaar.
Well EVE has been P2W for awhile now hasn't it? Let me explain.
So ... everything in this game can be bought and sold (or looted :P ) with in-game currency. Technically you can buy currency with real life cash through PLEX right. So technically you can fit your ship with the best of the best modules, granted you have the ... wait for it .... skills for it
Now with that being said, with enough money you could "purchase" all certificates required for every ship/module.
Sure, having the best ship with the best fitting for the situation at hand doesn't always guarantee you a win, it's pretty damn close. You'd be better than half the game's community.
It's quite the P2W. But at least the F2P players can grind skill points for years and reach the paying customers. Oh wait ... i forgot. The game has sub. Ouch :x
CCP is not desperate. EVE is not dying. More skill points does not equal more winning.
CCP is looking for a way to retain new players. During EVE Online's FanFest 2014 there was a presentation from one of the developers, CCP Rise, where he showed that only about 7% of new players end up becoming a part of the game's culture and staying in the game for years.
50% of them quit within a month and the other 40% play EVE solo until they get bored and quit after a few months.
One of the biggest complaints that new players give when they quit the game is that they feel that "they can never catch up" to the older players, or that they don't feel as useful due to their low skill cap.
This is a good way to remedy this issue, and it favors new players heavily. There's a heavy diminishing return applied to players with high amounts of skill points. Two of my characters, for instance, are over 160 million SP. More than double the diminishing return limit of 80 million.
I would end up spending a lot of money and burning a lot of extracted SP in order to add a measly 50,000 SP to my character. A new player, on the other hand, with less than 5 mill SP, would be able to add 500,000k SP to their character, which will enable them to do a lot more with their character.
The only issue I see here so far is in the pricing of this system and how it will influence the PLEX prices in the game.
Its still to be seen if it's a good way to keep newer players.
Really depends if player retention of 7% is mostly because of skill points. Could be, some skills are rediculously long.
Still that issue could have been solved by reconfiguring the skill tree to make it much quicker or changing to a grinding model.
Skills are now pretty much antiquated in EvE after so many years it doesn't quite make sense to be making new players face 2 years training for caps or even 6 months for BS (with excellent skills).
Well I agree and I disagree a little.
You're absolutely right that CCP really has no clue if this will actually work. It may turn out that those players will leave anyhow.
Where I don't disagree is that skills are antiquated. Some people already call this game "Capital Ships Online". The last thing we need is to make it easier and faster for people to get into capital ships, or even battleships. I think that the current training times for mid to high level aspects of the game are fine, but I also think that some of the entry level skills could be made a lot faster to get people into the game faster.
I will not deny it is P2W... But this is EvE... One of the few games where i feel that P2W is ok... Because all the interactions are so high in skill cap that plow the US defence budget in to it and still find your self podded seven ways to sunday 52 weeks a year.
Also the game is... ancient... With PvP as it´s only end game... New and not ancient players need all the leg up they need.
But that is just my humble opinion...
Also it is not like the EvE community ever over reacts to things now is there...
I will not deny it is P2W... But this is EvE... One of the few games where i feel that P2W is ok... Because all the interactions are so high in skill cap that plow the US defence budget in to it and still find yourself podded seven ways to sunday 52 weeks a year.
You've got a rather unique definition of 'win', tawess.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Its far from pay to win, as MrTuggles said you can buy and sell characters for in game money and have been able to for many years. I've created and sold 5 characters over the last 8 years. If anyone knows anything about eve it makes very little difference if you have all the skillpoints to pilot every ship and use every weapon you still have to have the PLAYER skill to be effective in anything outside of a large fleet engagement.
You should rephrase, it doesnt make that not pay 2 win, it just means that eve online has been pay 2 win for many years. They just streamlined the pay 2 win process. Now you can literally buy everything in this game, with a credit card. You can have every ship, unlimited in game money, ect. Then again, I thought eve was pay 2 win a long long time ago.
It is pay 2 win because a simple reason. If I start the game with a 15 dollar sub, and you start the game with 10 grand, you will always be ahead of me forever, and I will never catch up, and you will always be able to beat me in everything. Eve online as I have said before is one of the worst pay 2 win games, it is right up there with Ache age, and Uncharted waters. Soon they are gonna add gambling boxes, with pay 2 win ships.
I don't think the game is dying though, it will just be like uncharted waters online, where you got 1000-2000 people, who dumped 10+ grand into the cash shop, and yell bloody murder when any one says the game is pay 2 win garbage. That game has worked like that since a year after it came out, and there are still people who dump godly amounts of cash into it.
It goes like this, with a non pay 2 win no cash shop system, you have to convenience 100k plus people to join your game, to make large sums of money. With the eve system, arch age, uncharted waters, you only have to convince a small amount of people, to dump 10+ grand into, and they are hooked, and will continue to dump money into it.
They are all pay 2 win garbage, playing off of peoples emotions if you ask me.
I will not deny it is P2W... But this is EvE... One of the few games where i feel that P2W is ok... Because all the interactions are so high in skill cap that plow the US defence budget in to it and still find yourself podded seven ways to sunday 52 weeks a year.
You've got a rather unique definition of 'win', tawess.
Well to be honest... if they did not pay they would be podded seven was to sunday three times a day... in smaller and smaller ships....
So it is kind of pay2win... or well.. pay to fail less.... Or at least pay to not need to spend time inventing a time machine in order to go back in time and thus be able to catch up... =P
I will not deny it is P2W... But this is EvE... One of the few games where i feel that P2W is ok... Because all the interactions are so high in skill cap that plow the US defence budget in to it and still find yourself podded seven ways to sunday 52 weeks a year.
You've got a rather unique definition of 'win', tawess.
Well to be honest... if they did not pay they would be podded seven was to sunday three times a day... in smaller and smaller ships....
So it is kind of pay2win... or well.. pay to fail less.... Or at least pay to not need to spend time inventing a time machine in order to go back in time and thus be able to catch up... =P
The curve in EvE is brutal to say the least.
Fair enough.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
We're not playing games here, we are fighting wars.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It hasn't led to 'whales zerging in capital ships' for the past seven years. Why do you feel that would suddenly happen now
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Not only that, but with the diminishing returns on skill trading, you're still wayyyy better off buying a Super or Titan pilot from the bazaar than burning millions of SP's trying put your own character into one.
If not, then is it really P2W?
Most people supporting EVE acknowledge the decline and CCP 's shortcomings, they are just vocal when it comes to ignorant and stupid complaints - P2W, community, no skill required, etc...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Luckily, there's so damn much to do in EVE, that if you don't like 4-5 things, then there are 4-5 things you probably will like.
How can you take a character seriously in the game when you really don't have a character,just a screen with some picture on it.
also a character in what we are trying to perceive as a plausible realistic character in a living breathing world would NOT be designed around points...sigh.You as a character in ANY game,should learn skills by USING them,not any kind of skill points or putting check marks in boxes,Eve has got game design completely wrong.
Sad that this type of design gets supported just because players need a pvp space sim fix,this game is not even good at that either,it is more a spreadsheet game design.
Sadly all this hype behind SC will not change a thing,we will still be starving for a triple A space game,it is just too hard to do this genre correctly,it is like making 2-3 games instead of just 1 and developers are struggling to make one good game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Most of what else you posted is equally incorrect.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you want extream fanbois then Star Citizens forums are that way >>>>>>>
Really depends if player retention of 7% is mostly because of skill points. Could be, some skills are rediculously long.
Still that issue could have been solved by reconfiguring the skill tree to make it much quicker or changing to a grinding model.
Skills are now pretty much antiquated in EvE after so many years it doesn't quite make sense to be making new players face 2 years training for caps or even 6 months for BS (with excellent skills).
Unless said new player is already buying plex to sell and fund his carreer but then that player is also aware you can buy fully skilled characters of the bazaar.
So ... everything in this game can be bought and sold (or looted :P ) with in-game currency. Technically you can buy currency with real life cash through PLEX right. So technically you can fit your ship with the best of the best modules, granted you have the ... wait for it .... skills for it
Now with that being said, with enough money you could "purchase" all certificates required for every ship/module.
Sure, having the best ship with the best fitting for the situation at hand doesn't always guarantee you a win, it's pretty damn close. You'd be better than half the game's community.
It's quite the P2W. But at least the F2P players can grind skill points for years and reach the paying customers. Oh wait ... i forgot. The game has sub. Ouch :x
Dev teams seem to just get lost in the woods eventually.
You're absolutely right that CCP really has no clue if this will actually work. It may turn out that those players will leave anyhow.
Where I don't disagree is that skills are antiquated. Some people already call this game "Capital Ships Online". The last thing we need is to make it easier and faster for people to get into capital ships, or even battleships. I think that the current training times for mid to high level aspects of the game are fine, but I also think that some of the entry level skills could be made a lot faster to get people into the game faster.
Also the game is... ancient... With PvP as it´s only end game... New and not ancient players need all the leg up they need.
But that is just my humble opinion...
Also it is not like the EvE community ever over reacts to things now is there...
This have been a good conversation
You've got a rather unique definition of 'win', tawess.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It is pay 2 win because a simple reason. If I start the game with a 15 dollar sub, and you start the game with 10 grand, you will always be ahead of me forever, and I will never catch up, and you will always be able to beat me in everything. Eve online as I have said before is one of the worst pay 2 win games, it is right up there with Ache age, and Uncharted waters. Soon they are gonna add gambling boxes, with pay 2 win ships.
I don't think the game is dying though, it will just be like uncharted waters online, where you got 1000-2000 people, who dumped 10+ grand into the cash shop, and yell bloody murder when any one says the game is pay 2 win garbage. That game has worked like that since a year after it came out, and there are still people who dump godly amounts of cash into it.
It goes like this, with a non pay 2 win no cash shop system, you have to convenience 100k plus people to join your game, to make large sums of money. With the eve system, arch age, uncharted waters, you only have to convince a small amount of people, to dump 10+ grand into, and they are hooked, and will continue to dump money into it.
They are all pay 2 win garbage, playing off of peoples emotions if you ask me.
Well to be honest... if they did not pay they would be podded seven was to sunday three times a day... in smaller and smaller ships....
So it is kind of pay2win... or well.. pay to fail less.... Or at least pay to not need to spend time inventing a time machine in order to go back in time and thus be able to catch up... =P
The curve in EvE is brutal to say the least.
This have been a good conversation
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/
Have fun