Originally posted by Anofalye "Compete" as in amount of subscribtions?
That is...doubtful...for ANY game. Yet, it isn't impossible.
I am more thinking that Vanguard will have about 50k subscribers...or 500k if they get over their ego and make the raid-free servers. But well, that is just how I feel about it.
I could be wrong. Also, once the peoples play it...if they enjoy it, it could draw a lot more folks in the months following...so in the event of a raid-free servers, a 500k after 6 months COULD developp in millions of players if these 500k players are very happy about the game and the various features it has (doubtful, Brad is an enforcer-type, which in turn make less nice emotion back toward him). I doubt it, but...it COULD happen.
But with raid-enforced on every server, it would be reduce to the MxO status in about a year or two. And, I can't create the raid-free servers for them. I can shout, pout, scream, dance, say it, repeat it, repeat it and so on. But the Sigil team is the only group of folks who can do that. And post-release it wouldn't work as well...so it has to be done at release...even if they would have to delay the whole thing or have broken servers, as long as it is there at release...
Why doesn't that same logic hold true for WoW?
WoW has millions and millions of subscribers. Yet, they have ZERO raid-free servers. In fact, ALL their servers are "raid-enforced" by your definition.
So, again; why doesn't that logic hold true for WoW? Could it be that your arguement holds no water?
Originally posted by dreamer05 Seriously get off the raid free servers ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! Every post I've ever seen you make is about anti-raid or raid free servers. Raiding is a part of EVERY MMO. I don't even raid and raiding doesn't really bother me, who cares. As for the OP I don't think raid free servers will determine how many subscribers VG has. VG and WoW are two very different games and I think people who truley enjoy the casualness of WoW won't enjoy VG. When comparing the two I think VG has great potential to steal away some WoW subscribers but will it end up with as many as WoW? Doubtful, but hey theres no problem with that.
Funny how a guy who pick the forum name dreamer can't let Anofalye dream about non-raiding servers.
I used to get exasperated by his non-raiding rants too, but I have learned that he is not against Vanguard, just raiding. I hate raiding too, it's a huge pain in the ass for someone who has to, you know, work for a living.
You can kill the dreamer, but you can't kill the dream.
Originally posted by Vanguarde People like Anofalye wants an easy mode mmorpg where you can get raid gears without any challenge. This game is geared toward Veteran players of EQ & EQ2. I expect it will do well with subscriptions, but not as much as subscriptions like Wow does. It will be successful, this game is not for everyone. As brad have said it, its designed for its "Core audience", Sigil wil never listen to the player like Anofalye.
I've never heard people who dislike raiding say they want easy mode. In fact, most of us say raiding is easy mode. I agree with AnarchyArt, once you've had a full time job for a few years...raiding is a pain in the ass. To me it feels like my job to some extent.
Raiding shouldn't be raid x boss y times for z item, in my opinion. That's not skill, that's not even effort or risk. I'd say it was effort if you didn't end up raiding and watching TV at the same time. I have never watched TV or done household chores while solo or in a small group, raiding is another story. Don't say it's just me, I know many people (to the tune of 80%+ of the raid) who did the same things. Why should I get less reward for something that takes my full attention?!
Raiding in Lineage 2 is closer to what I think raiding should be. Antharas (nasty dragon) took around 200 people multiple hours to kill. The numbers and the time I don't really care about, what I do care about is this: a) It was a big event when somebody killed him. and b) He didn't drop anything that couldn't be dropped somewhere else (he just dropped 100% of the time and more items). What is the problem with that? It's a game, it should be fun and challenging and exciting!
Originally posted by KillerJimmy Originally posted by Vanguarde People like Anofalye wants an easy mode mmorpg where you can get raid gears without any challenge. This game is geared toward Veteran players of EQ & EQ2. I expect it will do well with subscriptions, but not as much as subscriptions like Wow does. It will be successful, this game is not for everyone. As brad have said it, its designed for its "Core audience", Sigil wil never listen to the player like Anofalye.
I've never heard people who dislike raiding say they want easy mode. In fact, most of us say raiding is easy mode. I agree with AnarchyArt, once you've had a full time job for a few years...raiding is a pain in the ass. To me it feels like my job to some extent.
Raiding shouldn't be raid x boss y times for z item, in my opinion. That's not skill, that's not even effort or risk. I'd say it was effort if you didn't end up raiding and watching TV at the same time. I have never watched TV or done household chores while solo or in a small group, raiding is another story. Don't say it's just me, I know many people (to the tune of 80%+ of the raid) who did the same things. Why should I get less reward for something that takes my full attention?!
Raiding in Lineage 2 is closer to what I think raiding should be. Antharas (nasty dragon) took around 200 people multiple hours to kill. The numbers and the time I don't really care about, what I do care about is this: a) It was a big event when somebody killed him. and b) He didn't drop anything that couldn't be dropped somewhere else (he just dropped 100% of the time and more items). What is the problem with that? It's a game, it should be fun and challenging and exciting!
I don't disagree with your sentiments about raiding.
The part that I think needs to be called out is the sentiment that Vanguard is doomed to failure or it will have sub-par subscription numbers UNLESS it has a raid-free server. That's what I disagree with.
The reason? The logic doesn't hold true for WoW, or any other game currently released. If raiding was the be-all end-all that made or broke games; WoW should have been the biggest failure of all time. But, seeing as it has turned out to be the biggest success of all time. Then raiding is either the reason for it's success (I don't believe that to be so) or, games succeed or fail for reasons OTHER than raiding. Bingo! That's what I'm going with.
Remember, WOW is two years old now, and while a great game in its own right, is beginning to wear on some of us. (You can only re-roll so many times and run through the same quests before it gets old).
Vanguard, perfect or not, could be a fresh new game and something the more serious gamers have been waiting for. I know I'll buy it, regardless. It's time for a new game to come out.
Originally posted by Fugnudz Remember, WOW is two years old now, and while a great game in its own right, is beginning to wear on some of us. (You can only re-roll so many times and run through the same quests before it gets old). Vanguard, perfect or not, could be a fresh new game and something the more serious gamers have been waiting for. I know I'll buy it, regardless. It's time for a new game to come out.
I hear that sentiment a lot. I think it's especially true since 2006 was pretty much a bust as far as new MMO's are concerned. I tried a few of them, but didn't play any past either the free download, or the free month.
WoW didn't have millions of subscribers til a year after it was launched(I think). There isn't any reason Vanguard, War, or Conan couldn't have that subscriber base. I think people are looking for a new game to play and even if they buy the expansion they will want a new experience. From what I can tell BC just adds more of what WoW already is, more loot grinding. Conan and War will have interesting PvP options and Vanguard seems to be the most hyped soon to be released MMO.
WoW as a game is decent. WoW for the industry is good. Before WoW the MMO industry didn't have millions of players. Now it does, and the game companies are greedy for taking players from other games. The only bad part about this is we see a lot of clones and not a lot of innovation.
Which is better, WoW or Vanguard? I don't know but I'm sure both will have first time MMO players sub to to play them.
Originally posted by Vanguarde People like Anofalye wants an easy mode mmorpg where you can get raid gears without any challenge. This game is geared toward Veteran players of EQ & EQ2. I expect it will do well with subscriptions, but not as much as subscriptions like Wow does. It will be successful, this game is not for everyone. As brad have said it, its designed for its "Core audience", Sigil wil never listen to the player like Anofalye.
I think its funny that you believe raid gear is somehow differnt. Afterall the numbers are completely relative and arbitrary. This stuff really is a treadmill you know ... nothing wrong with that, but your gear really isn't "better". In fact it may be "worse" depending on how they balance the monsters.
I also think its funny that Anofayle can completely derail a thread just by talking about raiding and then people try to argue its not important.
Anyway, Vanguard will not be able to pull away serious numbers from WoW, but it may be able to attract a certain crowd of people who are not that satisfied with WoW. I have no idea what those numbers will be like. Anyone who want more of a fantasy sim or is tired of graveyard zerg type stuff will at least have a look at Vanguard. Not that Vanguard is anywhere near as good a sim as a game like Eve, but for the fantasy genre there isn't too much else that is. Except Darkfall and that is vaporware.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by dreamer05 Seriously get off the raid free servers ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! Every post I've ever seen you make is about anti-raid or raid free servers. Raiding is a part of EVERY MMO. I don't even raid and raiding doesn't really bother me, who cares. As for the OP I don't think raid free servers will determine how many subscribers VG has. VG and WoW are two very different games and I think people who truley enjoy the casualness of WoW won't enjoy VG. When comparing the two I think VG has great potential to steal away some WoW subscribers but will it end up with as many as WoW? Doubtful, but hey theres no problem with that.
Funny how a guy who pick the forum name dreamer can't let Anofalye dream about non-raiding servers.
I used to get exasperated by his non-raiding rants too, but I have learned that he is not against Vanguard, just raiding. I hate raiding too, it's a huge pain in the ass for someone who has to, you know, work for a living.
You can kill the dreamer, but you can't kill the dream.
It is sad, because he actually probably really likes Vanguard otherwise. Ah well life is cruel.
For all that WOW is...someone will come along and make a game that is better (some already are), equally hyped, and it will eventually dethone WOW from the top of the pile.
Will Vanguard be that game? Won't know until its released and we see how good it is.
I just want to play a game that is a bit different. Sort of wilts my soul to hear it called EQ 3..
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
WoW has millions and millions of subscribers. Yet, they have ZERO raid-free servers. In fact, ALL their servers are "raid-enforced" by your definition.
So, again; why doesn't that logic hold true for WoW? Could it be that your arguement holds no water?
I totally agree with his statement.
Funny how a guy who pick the forum name dreamer can't let Anofalye dream about non-raiding servers.
I used to get exasperated by his non-raiding rants too, but I have learned that he is not against Vanguard, just raiding. I hate raiding too, it's a huge pain in the ass for someone who has to, you know, work for a living.
You can kill the dreamer, but you can't kill the dream.
I've never heard people who dislike raiding say they want easy mode. In fact, most of us say raiding is easy mode. I agree with AnarchyArt, once you've had a full time job for a few years...raiding is a pain in the ass. To me it feels like my job to some extent.
Raiding shouldn't be raid x boss y times for z item, in my opinion. That's not skill, that's not even effort or risk. I'd say it was effort if you didn't end up raiding and watching TV at the same time. I have never watched TV or done household chores while solo or in a small group, raiding is another story. Don't say it's just me, I know many people (to the tune of 80%+ of the raid) who did the same things. Why should I get less reward for something that takes my full attention?!
Raiding in Lineage 2 is closer to what I think raiding should be. Antharas (nasty dragon) took around 200 people multiple hours to kill. The numbers and the time I don't really care about, what I do care about is this: a) It was a big event when somebody killed him. and b) He didn't drop anything that couldn't be dropped somewhere else (he just dropped 100% of the time and more items). What is the problem with that? It's a game, it should be fun and challenging and exciting!
I've never heard people who dislike raiding say they want easy mode. In fact, most of us say raiding is easy mode. I agree with AnarchyArt, once you've had a full time job for a few years...raiding is a pain in the ass. To me it feels like my job to some extent.
Raiding shouldn't be raid x boss y times for z item, in my opinion. That's not skill, that's not even effort or risk. I'd say it was effort if you didn't end up raiding and watching TV at the same time. I have never watched TV or done household chores while solo or in a small group, raiding is another story. Don't say it's just me, I know many people (to the tune of 80%+ of the raid) who did the same things. Why should I get less reward for something that takes my full attention?!
Raiding in Lineage 2 is closer to what I think raiding should be. Antharas (nasty dragon) took around 200 people multiple hours to kill. The numbers and the time I don't really care about, what I do care about is this: a) It was a big event when somebody killed him. and b) He didn't drop anything that couldn't be dropped somewhere else (he just dropped 100% of the time and more items). What is the problem with that? It's a game, it should be fun and challenging and exciting!
I don't disagree with your sentiments about raiding.
The part that I think needs to be called out is the sentiment that Vanguard is doomed to failure or it will have sub-par subscription numbers UNLESS it has a raid-free server. That's what I disagree with.
The reason? The logic doesn't hold true for WoW, or any other game currently released. If raiding was the be-all end-all that made or broke games; WoW should have been the biggest failure of all time. But, seeing as it has turned out to be the biggest success of all time. Then raiding is either the reason for it's success (I don't believe that to be so) or, games succeed or fail for reasons OTHER than raiding. Bingo! That's what I'm going with.
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School, grammar not necessary.
Stay in school kids...it really does help.
Remember, WOW is two years old now, and while a great game in its own right, is beginning to wear on some of us. (You can only re-roll so many times and run through the same quests before it gets old).
Vanguard, perfect or not, could be a fresh new game and something the more serious gamers have been waiting for. I know I'll buy it, regardless. It's time for a new game to come out.
WoW as a game is decent. WoW for the industry is good. Before WoW the MMO industry didn't have millions of players. Now it does, and the game companies are greedy for taking players from other games. The only bad part about this is we see a lot of clones and not a lot of innovation.
Which is better, WoW or Vanguard? I don't know but I'm sure both will have first time MMO players sub to to play them.
I also think its funny that Anofayle can completely derail a thread just by talking about raiding and then people try to argue its not important.
Anyway, Vanguard will not be able to pull away serious numbers from WoW, but it may be able to attract a certain crowd of people who are not that satisfied with WoW. I have no idea what those numbers will be like. Anyone who want more of a fantasy sim or is tired of graveyard zerg type stuff will at least have a look at Vanguard. Not that Vanguard is anywhere near as good a sim as a game like Eve, but for the fantasy genre there isn't too much else that is. Except Darkfall and that is vaporware.
Funny how a guy who pick the forum name dreamer can't let Anofalye dream about non-raiding servers.
I used to get exasperated by his non-raiding rants too, but I have learned that he is not against Vanguard, just raiding. I hate raiding too, it's a huge pain in the ass for someone who has to, you know, work for a living.
You can kill the dreamer, but you can't kill the dream.
It is sad, because he actually probably really likes Vanguard otherwise. Ah well life is cruel.
For all that WOW is...someone will come along and make a game that is better (some already are), equally hyped, and it will eventually dethone WOW from the top of the pile.
Will Vanguard be that game? Won't know until its released and we see how good it is.
I just want to play a game that is a bit different. Sort of wilts my soul to hear it called EQ 3..
Hoping its much better than that....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Stay in school kids...it really does help.
lol so true is that ment to mean "vanguard becasue wow is too easy?"
because if that is what he ment then i dont think that was even worth posting it has nothing to do with it and it is false.
EQ2 player
Ex - EVE Online addict
played -
SWG, EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, Second Life, EVE-O and a few randoms