No... WoW is bigger than ever and the market is being flooded by more and more new MMOs. Stop being such an annoying fanboy.
You jive turkey, we are talking about the lack of good , inventive, mmo's here. Not gobs of mediocre crapola aimed towards the koolaid drinking masses of idiots.
True, there are many potentially good MMOs coming out in the next couple of years but does anyone else get a feeling that MMOs today are just plain crap? I dont know...Im getting that feeling. Anyone else feeling this way?
So what you mean is you're losing interest. They're hardly dying. They're getting more popular. They're just beginning in fact. The whole videogame industry is still in its infancy. I'm sure people were predicting the death of cinema in the 1930s too.
First of all: great thread guys, lots of nice thought on the topic. I enjoyed reading it a lot
I'm also "burned out" and unexcited about the current MMOs, they are all more or less a slightely different approach to the same theme, same static world, same concept... new high resolution character models and environments, fancy combat animations won't do the trick in future imo.
I agree with posters above, to realy revitalize the genre we need a total change in concept for it to feel fresh and exciting. Here are some ideas I came up with that I believe in:
1) Its not realistic to spend 4/5+ years to create a MMO and the massive updates needed to keep users busy, that's why we need "user generated content" Make the players do most of the job! (more details below)
2) To have a dynamic, exciting world, give the tools to the players, make us a crucial part of the game play and actually AFFECT and change the course of events. The ideal would be a different game play experience each time you log on.
Some examples: *Crafting professions that can actually make unique weapons/armor/buildings/mounts and by that i mean shape, color, textures, stats etc (to favour creativity and customization) *Players build and maintain towns/shops *Players form advanced societies/guilds with advanced hierarchy (for some political action etc)
This just something that emedietly came up in my head, I realize that there might be lots of problems with this, such as lacking technology etc etc But hey, look what some creative mind are doing in the upcomming "Spore", if some of it could be implemented in MMOs that would be a good start!
And to answer the question of the author: mmos aren't dying, just evolving I hope.
EDIT: sorry not sure why the disposition is gone..
MMO is not dying but there sure is "LACK" of good MMO´s out there, developers need to think outside the "BOX" to make something revolutionary and new that is worth playing.
Kinda had enough of Lineage 2 engine clones that is free 2 play, and I dont see much impressive stuff.
I was very very dissapointed on Lord of the rings online and Vanguard online, bought both of them.
MMOs are dying the same way that all video games are dying; in other words no they're not. There is very little innovation in all video games right now, and frankly people aren't willing to play innovative games. Occasionally something comes out and is popular, but more likely 'new and innovative' games get ignored. The other problem is that the cost of developing games keeps reaching upwards; people who bank roll these games want to minimize their risks, so there is huge pressure on developers to go with what works. Take a look at how the movie industry works (or doesn't) and you'll see the video game industry following in the same footsteps.
I find it hard to believe there's a genuine lack of good MMOs out there and easier to believe people are burnt out and would like to vent. Why? Look at the reviews.
Taken from metacritic.com, the currently released MMOs have these scores (all on a 100-point scale):
World of Warcraft - 93
WoW - Burning Crusade - 91
Tabula Rasa - 78
Everquest II - 83
City of Heroes - 85
City of Villains - 82
Lord of the Rings Online - 86
You give that kind of lineup to a console/single player PC gamer for Christmas and he'd ejaculate on the spot. I believe what's clearly evident here is not so much the lack of good MMOs, but the pickiness of the MMO audience. We've been spoiled by the above list. These games aren't just plain crap. These scores are about as accurate a review on a game as you're going to get. Here's why:
From metacritic.com:
Each movie, game, book and album featured on metacritic.com is assigned a METASCORE®, which is a weighted average of all of the scores assigned by individual critics to that movie, game, book or album. On a typical film page, for example, you will see the individual critic scores next to each of their quotes, while the overall METASCORE will be displayed at the top of the page. Book METASCORES are calculated slightly differently, but the underlying concept is the same.
METASCORES range from 0-100, with higher scores indicating better overall reviews, and lower scores indicating less favorable reviews from critics. Various ranges of METASCORES are also identified by different colors, so you can tell at a glance how critics felt: generally, green scores indicate favorable reviews, yellow scores denote mixed reviews, and red scores are used for unfavorable reviews.
The METASCORE is considered a weighted average because we assign more significance, or weight, to some critics and publications than we do to others, based on the overall stature and quality of those critics and publications. In addition, for music and movies, we also normalize the resulting scores (akin to "grading on a curve" in college), which prevents scores from clumping together.
Note that we do not calculate METASCORES for items that do not have a minimum number of reviews, as doing so would not provide an accurate result. These items are marked score pending or XX.
Give the devs a break, they aren't maniacal geniuses out to get your every last dollar while simultaneously raping you without lube. That's what their financial backers are for.
Of course MMO aren't dying, video games aren't dying, hell we are entering the golden age of video games, for the first time ever this year, the video games industry kicked the butt of the Music and Cinema industry that are crying all over, with even such as halo 3 selling more in its first day than any movie ever before, and the wii/ds entering everyone and their mother (literraly house.
But as I said, we are at the end of a "cycle", and end of cycles are always a pain in the a..
MMO will be the main game genre of the next generations. But as someone said before and I like the analogy, the current MMO are like pong or space invaders for other games before. We are only at the beginning, MMO as of today are extremely "simple".
It will take time though, before developement cycle decrease in length for that kind of games, before technology get mastered, network, AI, Physics and such. As of today creating a WoW cost 40 millions $, in a few years it will be 20 millions $ etc.
So yes, it is boring at the moment, and it will be probably stay boring for a few years, but believe me, we ll have a hell of fun in 10 years or so when the "real" next generation of MMO will come.
When developers (or well, their bosses rather) will yet again be willing to take risks, cause as of today, the EQ/WoW/DaoC/Lineage clones makes way too much money for them to take such risks.Basically when the 9+ millions WoW players will start to get bored too, as they are mainly the "new" audience, that discovered the genre with that game. That's sad, but such is life.
For the moment I can't agree more with what someone said before : stick with the MMO you like the most, and wait patiently.
I saw someone saying we won't see anything new, that you can "only do so much" with games, believe me, that's not true, as a Game Designer myself, I can tell you that there is a LOT of things that can be done with games, and even more with MMO, we are only at the beginning, the creativity is here, the ideas are here.
The problem though isn't the lack of idea, but it is the fact that the people who hold the "money" aren't willing to take risks. Try to explain to someone holding 35% of blizzard and making million of dollars with WoW that you have awesome ideas that will be revolutionnary and renew the whole genre. You know what he ll say ? "Sounds interesting, but please, make WoW 2, it works and we know it, k thx."
MMOs will go downhill until Game Developers realize that they can not "out-WoW", WoW. Everyone is trying to make a WoW clone. It is boring and they will fail.
One day Game Developers will take a chance and think outside the box from WoW and Everquest1 and take MMORPGs to the next level. Regardless of how good you think they are, Tabula Rasa, Fury and PoTBS have stepped outside the box to try something new. Even Spellborn has some new ideas. Planetside is an example of an old, great idea that needs to be redone.
Sure VG, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC and WAR are the same old crap, same old holy trinity, same old auto-attack, same old boring leveling to max level, same old key spam abilities, same old LFG, same old timesinks, same old level grind but soon we will get new blood.
MMOs will go downhill until Game Developers realize that they can not "out-WoW", WoW. Everyone is trying to make a WoW clone. It is boring and they will fail. One day Game Developers will take a chance and think outside the box from WoW and Everquest1 and take MMORPGs to the next level. Regardless of how good you think they are, Tabula Rasa, Fury and PoTBS have stepped outside the box to try something new. Even Spellborn has some new ideas. Planetside is an example of an old, great idea that needs to be redone. Sure VG, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC and WAR are the same old crap, same old holy trinity, same old auto-attack, same old boring leveling to max level, same old key spam abilities, same old LFG, same old timesinks, same old level grind but soon we will get new blood.
That's completly true, but believe me it is not because the developers don't want, as I said, the decision comes from the people who hold the money, those people who probably never played a video games, and for whom WoW, EQ2, Lineage or whatever are just numbers of subscribers, revenues and budget.
They live in an ivory tower and look at the video games industry though a window tainted the color of money, you can't "sell" concept or ideas to them, you can only sell them "Let's make WoW 2! because WoW = $"
And you are right, one day someone will take a chance, somebody who hold the money will be willing to take a risk, and it will work.
Then the other guys will say : "Hey, why our WoW 2, 3 or whatever doesn't make money anymore? let's make a game like they did !" and the Dev will "Answer, I told you we should think out of the box 4 years ago, but you said we should make WoW 3...."
I find it hard to believe there's a genuine lack of good MMOs out there and easier to believe people are burnt out and would like to vent. Why? Look at the reviews. Taken from metacritic.com, the currently released MMOs have these scores (all on a 100-point scale): World of Warcraft - 93 WoW - Burning Crusade - 91 Tabula Rasa - 78 Everquest II - 83 City of Heroes - 85 City of Villains - 82 Lord of the Rings Online - 86
You give that kind of lineup to a console/single player PC gamer for Christmas and he'd ejaculate on the spot. I believe what's clearly evident here is not so much the lack of good MMOs, but the pickiness of the MMO audience. We've been spoiled by the above list. These games aren't just plain crap. These scores are about as accurate a review on a game as you're going to get. Here's why: From metacritic.com: Each movie, game, book and album featured on metacritic.com is assigned a METASCORE®, which is a weighted average of all of the scores assigned by individual critics to that movie, game, book or album. On a typical film page, for example, you will see the individual critic scores next to each of their quotes, while the overall METASCORE will be displayed at the top of the page. Book METASCORES are calculated slightly differently, but the underlying concept is the same. METASCORES range from 0-100, with higher scores indicating better overall reviews, and lower scores indicating less favorable reviews from critics. Various ranges of METASCORES are also identified by different colors, so you can tell at a glance how critics felt: generally, green scores indicate favorable reviews, yellow scores denote mixed reviews, and red scores are used for unfavorable reviews. The METASCORE is considered a weighted average because we assign more significance, or weight, to some critics and publications than we do to others, based on the overall stature and quality of those critics and publications. In addition, for music and movies, we also normalize the resulting scores (akin to "grading on a curve" in college), which prevents scores from clumping together. Note that we do not calculate METASCORES for items that do not have a minimum number of reviews, as doing so would not provide an accurate result. These items are marked score pending or XX.
Give the devs a break, they aren't maniacal geniuses out to get your every last dollar while simultaneously raping you without lube. That's what their financial backers are for.
QFT
Devs want to make a good game, and by doing so, make lots of money that pleases their investors and publishers. Investors and publishers just want to make a lot of money, so they don't care if the game is crap, if it still sells a lot, they are happy. It's really hard to make a ton of money in the video game business with a crappy game. There is far too much diversity on the market at the moment.
This is a good thing. We are in the golden age of the 2nd generation of the MMOG. There are many new titles and expansions on the horizon/recently released. None of these are 3rd generation titles. I may be completely pumped up for WAR, others for Conan or Spellborn or Darkfall /whatever... but they are all still 2nd generation titles. They all borrow heavily from the games that came before them.
As someone else said, we are nearing the "end" of the 2nd generation of MMOG. Within the next... I'd guess 2-3 years we will see the first truly 3rd generation MMO.
People always feel 'stuck' or 'burned out' towards the end of a video game generation. It's all "been there done that" and that feeling of 'wow this is new/different' has long passed. Have patience, enjoy the current generation of titles, got some good ones looking to be released in the nearish future.
While stagnent the MMO genre is certainly not dying. I see the genre in another lull much like late 2003 spring 2004 before COH, L2, EQII, WOW , & Guildwars dropped.
Devs & publishers are comming to grips that none wants to play more WOW (EQ1) knockoffs. I firmly believe someone somewhere is quietly developing what's next.
Global subscriber numbers are higher than ever, the spread / choice / diversity of games is wider than ever, the investment in new game development from the big houses is higher than ever nd teh media coverage is higher than ever - the world just woke up to what a profitable cash cow this is - its just the start in my view.
The MMO genre is not onlynot dying but still experience rapid growth. However it is that rapid growth that is permitting developers to make successful games with the same tired, decade-old, EQ formula. The constant influx of neophyte MMO gamers more than offsets the vets who leave due to lack of 'deeper' alternatives (ie more new customers coming in than old going out). Until the market growth levels off, there will be little incentive for developers to risk being creative. So I guess the question is how big can the industry get?
If you're a fan of sandbox MMO's or Virtual World style MMO's, then yea, the near future is pretty bleak and uninteresting.
If you're happy with the current crop of ultra linear, quest based, theme park MMO's, then you have nothing to worry about.
Those of us that fall in the first catagory don't really have much to look forward to. Sure, we could play an MMO from the second catagory, but they'll only stay interesting for a month or two. Why would I pay a subscription fee for that when I can just pick up a single player game and play for free for a few months?
Honestly, the genre isn't going anywhere. It's going to continue to grow and bring in more players. The question is, have we seen the last of the "sandbox" MMO's? Have we seen the last of MMO's that have depth and complexity? You can't really argue the fact that the majority of the genre is heading more towards the console gaming mentality of easy, fast, shallow fun...
You need to look further ahead: 10, 20, maybe 50 years. We are currently nearing the 'Space Invaders' age of gaming. We have now seen the 'Pong' era where one breakthrough game was copied endlessly by others, and we are currently in the 'Breakout' era. Here developers try to be 'creative' and make a variation on that original game, but essentially it is still the same. For the 'Space Invaders' era there will be some new concepts and games (but, of course, everyone will copy that also). This will go on and on...
Now the above analogy is certainly not perfect, but it is to show that we are currently only at the inception of a concept. If technology continues like it currently does, you need to start thinking a lot bigger. Things like virtual reality, tactile interfaces, full immersion, a permanent and consistent alternate reality... That is what this part of the gaming industry is slowly working itself towards.
So no, the MMO era is certainly not dying, but it is going through a mostly boring phase...
I like how this person put it...I think its true. MMOs are really only in their infancy, and everyone's copying the EQ1 mold but *eventually* we'll start seeing some new stuff in the future. Slowly. Too damn slowly for most of our liking but it will happen. WoW made MMOs popular and its only kick-start the growth (and hopefully true evolution) of MMOs. Some truly dynamic, exciting amazing revolutionary MMO that isn't basically a clone of EQ1 will come someday.
This genre is not dying by any extent, its gone mainstream thus everything is simplifed with very few quality titles for hardcore or semi hardcore players which face it is anyone that takes to time to post on a gaming message board.
Just like every genre we will get some decent titles eventually, we will still get mainstream games ie wow clones and yes they will always be the majority but eventually the genre will diversfy to give something to everyone.
This genre is a bit like the first person shooter genre was a while ago nothing but WW2 shooters, now they are getting plenty of FPS games that are unique. MMOs are at the point where we are getting nothing but simplistic mainstream games, eventually we will get something different it looks like that will be between 2008-2010 every game coming out doesn't look anything like the drivel we have been getting.
Personally though if TCOS is as dissapointing as POTBS was I cant really see any games on the horizon that look interesting. Only thing I could think of that would really appeal to me is Darkfall but that is as likely to come out as Duke Nuk'em:forever hell it was annouced when I was 13 Ill be 20 soon lol.
the new games just keep getting shittier if that's what you mean by dying. In fact i'm not looking forward to sailing a pirate ship tonight, I'm looking forward to playing a free mmo where I may or may not buy my little avatar a school girl uniform and butterfly wings. Also I think I have to change a skill in eve.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Yes, i do feel MMO's as a genre are dieing, and i have felt this way since the let down of Vanguard. I don't want to be the one to point fingers but im going to blame it on WoW. It changed MMO's to what i feel is worse, lore doesn't matter as much, immersion isn't as important.
As i look foward at future MMO's all i see is doom, they all try to push the graphics and promise great things, but no one ever does it.
All i can hope is that im proven wrong, this is my favorite genre of games.
I see alot of people saying that the next 'new gen' MMO won't come for a few more years which kind of confuses me. I've only been into MMO's for about 3-4 years now, and I'm guessing those of you who say that have probably played for 6 or 7+ years, so obviously you're very familiar with what different MMO's have to offer. But my question is what do you mean when you say 'next gen' MMO? If you're someone who has played for 10+ years, you have basically seen the jyst of it. Maybe I'm just not visualizing enough but I can't see a game ever releasing from now on that is not like anything we have ever seen. Seriously, unless MMO's become virtual reality where you put a helmet on your head and control every action of your character while seeing through his eyes, what (other then the minor differences like questing or lvling) can an MMO do to make it completely unique in every way?
What you have to understand is that everyday there are new faces joining the MMO scene, and to them all of this is new. WoW is new, Everquest is new... everything is new to them. So therefore people will always keep playing those games. And if companies see that people keep playing these games, they will continue to make them. Sure, they may not appeal to the average MMO veteran who would rather watch paint dry then play another lvl-based game, but who cares as long as you're making money off those newbies? I think that the only way for this so called REAL 'next gen' MMO to come out has to be from a company who has seen it all and is determined to develop a masterpiece that will blow away the minds of the veterans. But then, at the same time, this would be taking a risk, which many complanies may not want to do. The solution? Make another typical MMO with some differences.
So anyways, what do you guys mean when you say the 'next gen' MMO? Like I said earlier, maybe I'm just not visualizing enough.
MMOs are more popular than ever. There are more successful MMOs running currently than at any other time. There are still big budget quality games in developement. The idea that the genre is dead while it is still on the rise just seems ludicrous to me and makes threads like these nothing more than whiny trollish rants than any kind of serious debate.
The genre may be dead for you. Perhaps you're bored with it, burnt out on it, disillusioned, blah, blah, blah. There are people that grow tired of any genre when they immerse themselves in it like people do with MMOs. Your own personal distaste for the current MMO landscape has no bearing whatsoever with the actual health of the genre. Millions are still enjoying these games, and more new players join every day. It's more alive than at any time in the past. Just maybe not for you.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Comments
No... WoW is bigger than ever and the market is being flooded by more and more new MMOs. Stop being such an annoying fanboy.
===
It takes a real man to learn the truth... it takes the truth to learn a real man.
You jive turkey, we are talking about the lack of good , inventive, mmo's here. Not gobs of mediocre crapola aimed towards the koolaid drinking masses of idiots.
playing eq2 and two worlds
So what you mean is you're losing interest. They're hardly dying. They're getting more popular. They're just beginning in fact. The whole videogame industry is still in its infancy. I'm sure people were predicting the death of cinema in the 1930s too.
I'm also "burned out" and unexcited about the current MMOs, they are all more or less a slightely different approach to the same theme, same static world, same concept... new high resolution character models and environments, fancy combat animations won't do the trick in future imo.
I agree with posters above, to realy revitalize the genre we need a total change in concept for it to feel fresh and exciting. Here are some ideas I came up with that I believe in:
1) Its not realistic to spend 4/5+ years to create a MMO and the massive updates needed to keep users busy, that's why we need "user generated content" Make the players do most of the job! (more details below)
2) To have a dynamic, exciting world, give the tools to the players, make us a crucial part of the game play and actually AFFECT and change the course of events. The ideal would be a different game play experience each time you log on.
Some examples:
*Crafting professions that can actually make unique weapons/armor/buildings/mounts and by that i mean shape, color, textures, stats etc (to favour creativity and customization)
*Players build and maintain towns/shops
*Players form advanced societies/guilds with advanced hierarchy (for some political action etc)
This just something that emedietly came up in my head, I realize that there might be lots of problems with this, such as lacking technology etc etc
But hey, look what some creative mind are doing in the upcomming "Spore", if some of it could be implemented in MMOs that would be a good start!
And to answer the question of the author: mmos aren't dying, just evolving I hope.
EDIT: sorry not sure why the disposition is gone..
Sorry but the MMO era is not dying.
It is grown larger and expanding. More and more people who never would have played an online game are "logging on".
What seems to be dying are mmo's that can satisfy the old school players. I'm afraid you guys are a bit screwed with that. Sorry.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
MMO is not dying but there sure is "LACK" of good MMO´s out there, developers need to think outside the "BOX" to make something revolutionary and new that is worth playing.
Kinda had enough of Lineage 2 engine clones that is free 2 play, and I dont see much impressive stuff.
I was very very dissapointed on Lord of the rings online and Vanguard online, bought both of them.
MMOs are dying the same way that all video games are dying; in other words no they're not. There is very little innovation in all video games right now, and frankly people aren't willing to play innovative games. Occasionally something comes out and is popular, but more likely 'new and innovative' games get ignored. The other problem is that the cost of developing games keeps reaching upwards; people who bank roll these games want to minimize their risks, so there is huge pressure on developers to go with what works. Take a look at how the movie industry works (or doesn't) and you'll see the video game industry following in the same footsteps.
The MMOG concept is not only not dying, it is going to be the dominant form of entertainment for the masses for the next few generations.
Yet another Chicken Little.
I find it hard to believe there's a genuine lack of good MMOs out there and easier to believe people are burnt out and would like to vent. Why? Look at the reviews.
Taken from metacritic.com, the currently released MMOs have these scores (all on a 100-point scale):
World of Warcraft - 93
WoW - Burning Crusade - 91
Tabula Rasa - 78
Everquest II - 83
City of Heroes - 85
City of Villains - 82
Lord of the Rings Online - 86
You give that kind of lineup to a console/single player PC gamer for Christmas and he'd ejaculate on the spot. I believe what's clearly evident here is not so much the lack of good MMOs, but the pickiness of the MMO audience. We've been spoiled by the above list. These games aren't just plain crap. These scores are about as accurate a review on a game as you're going to get. Here's why:
From metacritic.com:
Each movie, game, book and album featured on metacritic.com is assigned a METASCORE®, which is a weighted average of all of the scores assigned by individual critics to that movie, game, book or album. On a typical film page, for example, you will see the individual critic scores next to each of their quotes, while the overall METASCORE will be displayed at the top of the page. Book METASCORES are calculated slightly differently, but the underlying concept is the same.
METASCORES range from 0-100, with higher scores indicating better overall reviews, and lower scores indicating less favorable reviews from critics. Various ranges of METASCORES are also identified by different colors, so you can tell at a glance how critics felt: generally, green scores indicate favorable reviews, yellow scores denote mixed reviews, and red scores are used for unfavorable reviews.
The METASCORE is considered a weighted average because we assign more significance, or weight, to some critics and publications than we do to others, based on the overall stature and quality of those critics and publications. In addition, for music and movies, we also normalize the resulting scores (akin to "grading on a curve" in college), which prevents scores from clumping together.
Note that we do not calculate METASCORES for items that do not have a minimum number of reviews, as doing so would not provide an accurate result. These items are marked score pending or XX.
Give the devs a break, they aren't maniacal geniuses out to get your every last dollar while simultaneously raping you without lube. That's what their financial backers are for.
Of course MMO aren't dying, video games aren't dying, hell we are entering the golden age of video games, for the first time ever this year, the video games industry kicked the butt of the Music and Cinema industry that are crying all over, with even such as halo 3 selling more in its first day than any movie ever before, and the wii/ds entering everyone and their mother (literraly
house.
But as I said, we are at the end of a "cycle", and end of cycles are always a pain in the a..
MMO will be the main game genre of the next generations. But as someone said before and I like the analogy, the current MMO are like pong or space invaders for other games before. We are only at the beginning, MMO as of today are extremely "simple".
It will take time though, before developement cycle decrease in length for that kind of games, before technology get mastered, network, AI, Physics and such. As of today creating a WoW cost 40 millions $, in a few years it will be 20 millions $ etc.
So yes, it is boring at the moment, and it will be probably stay boring for a few years, but believe me, we ll have a hell of fun in 10 years or so when the "real" next generation of MMO will come.
When developers (or well, their bosses rather) will yet again be willing to take risks, cause as of today, the EQ/WoW/DaoC/Lineage clones makes way too much money for them to take such risks.Basically when the 9+ millions WoW players will start to get bored too, as they are mainly the "new" audience, that discovered the genre with that game. That's sad, but such is life.
For the moment I can't agree more with what someone said before : stick with the MMO you like the most, and wait patiently.
I saw someone saying we won't see anything new, that you can "only do so much" with games, believe me, that's not true, as a Game Designer myself, I can tell you that there is a LOT of things that can be done with games, and even more with MMO, we are only at the beginning, the creativity is here, the ideas are here.
The problem though isn't the lack of idea, but it is the fact that the people who hold the "money" aren't willing to take risks. Try to explain to someone holding 35% of blizzard and making million of dollars with WoW that you have awesome ideas that will be revolutionnary and renew the whole genre. You know what he ll say ? "Sounds interesting, but please, make WoW 2, it works and we know it, k thx."
MMOs will go downhill until Game Developers realize that they can not "out-WoW", WoW. Everyone is trying to make a WoW clone. It is boring and they will fail.
One day Game Developers will take a chance and think outside the box from WoW and Everquest1 and take MMORPGs to the next level. Regardless of how good you think they are, Tabula Rasa, Fury and PoTBS have stepped outside the box to try something new. Even Spellborn has some new ideas. Planetside is an example of an old, great idea that needs to be redone.
Sure VG, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC and WAR are the same old crap, same old holy trinity, same old auto-attack, same old boring leveling to max level, same old key spam abilities, same old LFG, same old timesinks, same old level grind but soon we will get new blood.
That's completly true, but believe me it is not because the developers don't want, as I said, the decision comes from the people who hold the money, those people who probably never played a video games, and for whom WoW, EQ2, Lineage or whatever are just numbers of subscribers, revenues and budget.
They live in an ivory tower and look at the video games industry though a window tainted the color of money, you can't "sell" concept or ideas to them, you can only sell them "Let's make WoW 2! because WoW = $"
And you are right, one day someone will take a chance, somebody who hold the money will be willing to take a risk, and it will work.
Then the other guys will say : "Hey, why our WoW 2, 3 or whatever doesn't make money anymore? let's make a game like they did !" and the Dev will "Answer, I told you we should think out of the box 4 years ago, but you said we should make WoW 3...."
Devs want to make a good game, and by doing so, make lots of money that pleases their investors and publishers. Investors and publishers just want to make a lot of money, so they don't care if the game is crap, if it still sells a lot, they are happy. It's really hard to make a ton of money in the video game business with a crappy game. There is far too much diversity on the market at the moment.
This is a good thing. We are in the golden age of the 2nd generation of the MMOG. There are many new titles and expansions on the horizon/recently released. None of these are 3rd generation titles. I may be completely pumped up for WAR, others for Conan or Spellborn or Darkfall /whatever... but they are all still 2nd generation titles. They all borrow heavily from the games that came before them.
As someone else said, we are nearing the "end" of the 2nd generation of MMOG. Within the next... I'd guess 2-3 years we will see the first truly 3rd generation MMO.
People always feel 'stuck' or 'burned out' towards the end of a video game generation. It's all "been there done that" and that feeling of 'wow this is new/different' has long passed. Have patience, enjoy the current generation of titles, got some good ones looking to be released in the nearish future.
While stagnent the MMO genre is certainly not dying. I see the genre in another lull much like late 2003 spring 2004 before COH, L2, EQII, WOW , & Guildwars dropped.
Devs & publishers are comming to grips that none wants to play more WOW (EQ1) knockoffs. I firmly believe someone somewhere is quietly developing what's next.
Growing pains are to be expected...
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
Dying? Not a chancein hell.
Global subscriber numbers are higher than ever, the spread / choice / diversity of games is wider than ever, the investment in new game development from the big houses is higher than ever nd teh media coverage is higher than ever - the world just woke up to what a profitable cash cow this is - its just the start in my view.
To err is human....to play is divine
The MMO genre is not onlynot dying but still experience rapid growth. However it is that rapid growth that is permitting developers to make successful games with the same tired, decade-old, EQ formula. The constant influx of neophyte MMO gamers more than offsets the vets who leave due to lack of 'deeper' alternatives (ie more new customers coming in than old going out). Until the market growth levels off, there will be little incentive for developers to risk being creative. So I guess the question is how big can the industry get?
Depends.
If you're a fan of sandbox MMO's or Virtual World style MMO's, then yea, the near future is pretty bleak and uninteresting.
If you're happy with the current crop of ultra linear, quest based, theme park MMO's, then you have nothing to worry about.
Those of us that fall in the first catagory don't really have much to look forward to. Sure, we could play an MMO from the second catagory, but they'll only stay interesting for a month or two. Why would I pay a subscription fee for that when I can just pick up a single player game and play for free for a few months?
Honestly, the genre isn't going anywhere. It's going to continue to grow and bring in more players. The question is, have we seen the last of the "sandbox" MMO's? Have we seen the last of MMO's that have depth and complexity? You can't really argue the fact that the majority of the genre is heading more towards the console gaming mentality of easy, fast, shallow fun...
No, it's dead alrady. The new thing are the virtual worlds.
I like how this person put it...I think its true. MMOs are really only in their infancy, and everyone's copying the EQ1 mold but *eventually* we'll start seeing some new stuff in the future. Slowly. Too damn slowly for most of our liking but it will happen. WoW made MMOs popular and its only kick-start the growth (and hopefully true evolution) of MMOs. Some truly dynamic, exciting amazing revolutionary MMO that isn't basically a clone of EQ1 will come someday.
This genre is not dying by any extent, its gone mainstream thus everything is simplifed with very few quality titles for hardcore or semi hardcore players which face it is anyone that takes to time to post on a gaming message board.
Just like every genre we will get some decent titles eventually, we will still get mainstream games ie wow clones and yes they will always be the majority but eventually the genre will diversfy to give something to everyone.
This genre is a bit like the first person shooter genre was a while ago nothing but WW2 shooters, now they are getting plenty of FPS games that are unique. MMOs are at the point where we are getting nothing but simplistic mainstream games, eventually we will get something different it looks like that will be between 2008-2010 every game coming out doesn't look anything like the drivel we have been getting.
Personally though if TCOS is as dissapointing as POTBS was I cant really see any games on the horizon that look interesting. Only thing I could think of that would really appeal to me is Darkfall but that is as likely to come out as Duke Nuk'em:forever hell it was annouced when I was 13 Ill be 20 soon lol.
the new games just keep getting shittier if that's what you mean by dying. In fact i'm not looking forward to sailing a pirate ship tonight, I'm looking forward to playing a free mmo where I may or may not buy my little avatar a school girl uniform and butterfly wings. Also I think I have to change a skill in eve.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Yes, i do feel MMO's as a genre are dieing, and i have felt this way since the let down of Vanguard. I don't want to be the one to point fingers but im going to blame it on WoW. It changed MMO's to what i feel is worse, lore doesn't matter as much, immersion isn't as important.
As i look foward at future MMO's all i see is doom, they all try to push the graphics and promise great things, but no one ever does it.
All i can hope is that im proven wrong, this is my favorite genre of games.
I see alot of people saying that the next 'new gen' MMO won't come for a few more years which kind of confuses me. I've only been into MMO's for about 3-4 years now, and I'm guessing those of you who say that have probably played for 6 or 7+ years, so obviously you're very familiar with what different MMO's have to offer. But my question is what do you mean when you say 'next gen' MMO? If you're someone who has played for 10+ years, you have basically seen the jyst of it. Maybe I'm just not visualizing enough but I can't see a game ever releasing from now on that is not like anything we have ever seen. Seriously, unless MMO's become virtual reality where you put a helmet on your head and control every action of your character while seeing through his eyes, what (other then the minor differences like questing or lvling) can an MMO do to make it completely unique in every way?
What you have to understand is that everyday there are new faces joining the MMO scene, and to them all of this is new. WoW is new, Everquest is new... everything is new to them. So therefore people will always keep playing those games. And if companies see that people keep playing these games, they will continue to make them. Sure, they may not appeal to the average MMO veteran who would rather watch paint dry then play another lvl-based game, but who cares as long as you're making money off those newbies? I think that the only way for this so called REAL 'next gen' MMO to come out has to be from a company who has seen it all and is determined to develop a masterpiece that will blow away the minds of the veterans. But then, at the same time, this would be taking a risk, which many complanies may not want to do. The solution? Make another typical MMO with some differences.
So anyways, what do you guys mean when you say the 'next gen' MMO? Like I said earlier, maybe I'm just not visualizing enough.
some what, I like next gen stuff.
MMOs are more popular than ever. There are more successful MMOs running currently than at any other time. There are still big budget quality games in developement. The idea that the genre is dead while it is still on the rise just seems ludicrous to me and makes threads like these nothing more than whiny trollish rants than any kind of serious debate.
The genre may be dead for you. Perhaps you're bored with it, burnt out on it, disillusioned, blah, blah, blah. There are people that grow tired of any genre when they immerse themselves in it like people do with MMOs. Your own personal distaste for the current MMO landscape has no bearing whatsoever with the actual health of the genre. Millions are still enjoying these games, and more new players join every day. It's more alive than at any time in the past. Just maybe not for you.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online