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I, the Guild Master of a guild with a Full Tier 1 City just got banned
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Sorry to say, any MMO you play is going to have players you disprove of. Will you not go to the grocery store either?
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
If you're innocent you'll be unbanned, if you're not then you will stay banned (suspended, same thing they're both permanent for him)
Blizzard did have an automated system, and they ended up banning every single guild bank from WoW. There was a huge backlash. Now, they've either refined their algorithms or are making the GMs investigate first.
I'm sorry to hear that 3 immature people keep you from playing a decent game.
You seem to be a more-mature poster though so there was no sarcasm in saying I was sorry.
Forget the OP... to me, I think Mathias at Funcom is full of shit. Just read what he said very closely:
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Mathis: We can’t go into details on exactly what was done by the offenders but as we have said in public, some members of the community found a weakness in the game; an exploit that they decided to abuse to gain extra money in the game. It wasn’t directly a money exploit, but by using the exploit itself they got access to more money. Our experience tells us that we need to be pro-active and react when serious issues like this arise. Most people don’t like that there are possibilities for cheating in any game, and therefore we have zero tolerance for exploits. We don’t want to sit on the fence and watch a small group of players ruin the game experience for the rest of the community.
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It starts out as a weakness in the first sentence.
Then it turns into a serious issue.
Then it finally turns into cheating, and something that ruins the experience for the rest of the community.
I really don't understand how anyone could defend FC in this situation. FC is the creator of the virtual world, players play in that world and do what FC has programmed to happen in that world. IF the world is faulty, then FC needs to take responsibility for their product, fix it, and everyone goes on there way. If it resulted in players getting too much money, then take some of that money back. If it resulted in players getting too much XP, then take some of it back. That would be reasonable.
But BANNING players because of ANYTHING they do in that provided virtual world, (whatever the mechanics allow), is crazy sounding to me. The vendor should be sueable in such a case. You buy a product, you sign up for a subscription, then you get banned and non-refunded because the creator of the program overlooked something? That's insane. And I could care less if that's the way it's always been, which if true, means it's always been wrong.
So whether the OP is lieing or not seems irrelevant... I think Mathias / Funcom is full of it.
To me its liking having to take your shoes off an an airport, or be searched. Its an inconvenience but a necessity for the good of all, and yet it pisses you off but somehow you understand WHY?
That same kind of stance against gold sellers and exploiters is perfectly justifiable in my opinion. Preventative measures for the good of the players, the game and early economy.
Lol I don't know how important guild cities are and I don't know how hard it is to collect 60g in AoC. But, from the OP's tone, it sounds like it took alot of work...all for him to get banned. So in regard to your analogy, its more like security tackling you, throwing you against the wall, yelling at you to take your shoes off, then searching you thorougly and saying "Ok well nothing's wrong have a nice day."Gold sellers and exploiters obviously need to be dealt with but to unjustly punish innocents then let them say they're innocent later (who knows how long later) is pretty stupid. Perhaps the exploits should have been dealt with earlier...gold sellers are different, anyone stupid enough to actually use them deserves to be banned.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Players also agree to a EULA before playing the game which states that they can or will be banned for exploiting... which IS taking advantage of bugs/un-intentional mechanics.
I don't see what's crazy about cutting someone off from a service that you provide when someone is abusing it.
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
I am not blindly faithful to Funcom, I have been in tons of MMO's where people have been banned. There is a process they have to go through and an investigation. If they are truly innocent they will have their accounts reinstated as stated before. However, everyone that gets banned comes to forums and professes their innocence and I do mean everyone of them. We only get the players side of the story and sorry to say that isn't sufficient.We are not capable of determining if they are guilty or not but I have a hard time believing that everyone is innocent.
People that got banned had tons of gold. Hell I am level 30 in AoC and I have 12 silver. I have no clue as to how some of these people came to have 60+ gold in their possession.
If the OP is truly innocent and I have a hard time believing that (my personal opinion) then his account will be reinstated.
I guess you were exploiting. Too bad, eh?
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
I am not blindly faithful to Funcom, I have been in tons of MMO's where people have been banned. There is a process they have to go through and an investigation. If they are truly innocent they will have their accounts reinstated as stated before. However, everyone that gets banned comes to forums and professes their innocence and I do mean everyone of them. We only get the players side of the story and sorry to say that isn't sufficient.We are not capable of determining if they are guilty or not but I have a hard time believing that everyone is innocent.
People that got banned had tons of gold. Hell I am level 30 in AoC and I have 12 silver. I have no clue as to how some of these people came to have 60+ gold in their possession.
If the OP is truly innocent and I have a hard time believing that (my personal opinion) then his account will be reinstated.
Word.I can't see anyone getting that much gold together in such a short time legitimately.
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
I am not blindly faithful to Funcom, I have been in tons of MMO's where people have been banned. There is a process they have to go through and an investigation. If they are truly innocent they will have their accounts reinstated as stated before. However, everyone that gets banned comes to forums and professes their innocence and I do mean everyone of them. We only get the players side of the story and sorry to say that isn't sufficient.We are not capable of determining if they are guilty or not but I have a hard time believing that everyone is innocent.
People that got banned had tons of gold. Hell I am level 30 in AoC and I have 12 silver. I have no clue as to how some of these people came to have 60+ gold in their possession.
If the OP is truly innocent and I have a hard time believing that (my personal opinion) then his account will be reinstated.
Right, guilty until proven innocent...anyone who disagrees on this is obviously wrong. He said they grinded some instance over and over and all contributed to the guild bank (him) and that's how he got 60 gold. People try to warn other people that "if you have alot of gold, expect to probably get banned without any notice." I agree there are exploiters but again Funcom should have taken care of all serious exploits in my opinion.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Hm
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
To me its liking having to take your shoes off an an airport, or be searched. Its an inconvenience but a necessity for the good of all, and yet it pisses you off but somehow you understand WHY?
That same kind of stance against gold sellers and exploiters is perfectly justifiable in my opinion. Preventative measures for the good of the players, the game and early economy.
If you find these measures fair, then by your own comparison and logic the only thing they should have done would be to take the servers down and do their audit system wide and then come back up after everyone was given a fair shot at innocence.
Funcom has always been a ban happy bunch but I will say this Mathis is one of the nicest guys who works for Funcom and is a stand up guy.So if accounts where wrongly banned they will be reinstated.I hate AoC like alot of ppl do but think about it it's not in funcoms best interest to ban ppl and lose that revenue but they sure wont let you get away with exploiting or slap ya on the wrist if they catch you/5.5 years of AO taught me that they come down hard on cheaters and exploiters and you wont convince them to change there mind.
One thing I always did like funcom abit even though they were ban happy and I didn't always agree with it I was also happy that they would take no shit and ban cheaters right off.
Heh... you know.
If you want to ask the details, ask around in OOC why the leader was banned.
Apparently, they weren't banned for gold-storing at all, rather, abusing the Ravine Resource bug.
In other words, they had accumulated more resources than they were legitimately allowed to have total.
Seriously... ask around on OOC on the Deathwhisper server. That's what multiple different people have said to me, all from different guilds.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Yea, I repect that too. I hope that the people whom have been banned and are innocent don't have to wait too long to get their accounts reinstated though.
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
I am not blindly faithful to Funcom, I have been in tons of MMO's where people have been banned. There is a process they have to go through and an investigation. If they are truly innocent they will have their accounts reinstated as stated before. However, everyone that gets banned comes to forums and professes their innocence and I do mean everyone of them. We only get the players side of the story and sorry to say that isn't sufficient.We are not capable of determining if they are guilty or not but I have a hard time believing that everyone is innocent.
People that got banned had tons of gold. Hell I am level 30 in AoC and I have 12 silver. I have no clue as to how some of these people came to have 60+ gold in their possession.
If the OP is truly innocent and I have a hard time believing that (my personal opinion) then his account will be reinstated.
Word.I can't see anyone getting that much gold together in such a short time legitimately.
After reading your post, the only 'word' I can think of is idiot.It has been stated in several other threads that FC is banning GLs after they have collected all the guild members money. 60g is a small amount from a 100 member guild.
If the OP (and others) get reinstated, how does FC intend to compensate them for their lost play time? Probably won't and they will come back to these boards and complain which will hurt the game further. I suspect there will be a large drop in subscribers after 30 days and FC will need to put in some effort to get people to play again.
Lastly, I assume innocent until proven guilty. I don't judge others when I don't have all the facts at my disposal.
Players also agree to a EULA before playing the game which states that they can or will be banned for exploiting... which IS taking advantage of bugs/un-intentional mechanics.
I don't see what's crazy about cutting someone off from a service that you provide when someone is abusing it.
If it's in the EULA, then sure. But one has to watch out for the semantics involved. Someone earlier gave some good examples.
Suppose the game has a bug that if I give 10 gold to a friend, it turns into 11 gold in his inventory. Then we just give gold back and forth till we have a million. That's a bug. And if we did that, it would be exploiting the bug. Ideally, even then, it would be BETTER if the vendor just fixed the bug, took away the gold we created by exploiting the bug, and everyone went on their merry way.
But Mathias never mentions the existance of a BUG... just that there is a weakness. Suppose I discover that wolves drop more loot during certain periods of the day? How do I know that's not part of the virtual world funcom created? Just because they didn't document it, doesn't make it a bug. Otherwise one would have to say that funcom must document everything mechanic-wise, and that's ridiculous. So what if Funcom just didn't set their drop-rate or itemization correctly? How is that the responsibility of the player, to know and determine what is and isn't supposed to be in the game? SURE, there is the obvious stuff like the cash-copying example above... but from the verbage Mathias is using, he never mentions a bug, just a weakness.
Well hell, every game has tons of weaknesses.
It's the whole idea that players are responsible to identify the weaknesses and avoid them that is crazy to me. That responsibility should fall SOLELY on the vendor of the product, not the consumer. (And i'm not just thinking of Funcom and AoC here... all mmo vendors are in mind)
And if the EULA is worded to allow banning of customers for activities reasonably performed within the product, then I should be reading the EULAs more closely from now on i guess?! hehe. I will start reading them more closely. However, initially... I can't imagine a vendor being able to hold a consumer liable for actions done in the face of a weakly designed product. Doesn't sound right at all.
Weakness, serious issue, cheating... Makes sense to me, There's a weakness in the game... someone uses it to cheat... it becomes a serious issue.Players also agree to a EULA before playing the game which states that they can or will be banned for exploiting... which IS taking advantage of bugs/un-intentional mechanics.
I don't see what's crazy about cutting someone off from a service that you provide when someone is abusing it.
There wasn't a weakness in the game it was a bug, they missed something or didnt catch it. Some people caught it and started using it, they weren't cheating they were using the bug for their benefit. There are thousands of bugs in all MMOs out there that people use for their benefit until they get fixed, in all those other MMOS people dont get banned for using the bug because the companies of those MMOs KNOW that they screwed up and they take the blame.
Granted the bugs from AoC were tremendous because it actually affected the whole game instead of just being extra damage or an extra bonus, in AoC the bugs affected 2 essential parts of the game.
Funcom instead of apologizing for their mistake and saying something like, " While we investigate this we will be freezing half of the gold/exp from certain people that came in contact with the bug to find out if it was earned normally or through the bug. Taking away X amount of gold/exp will ensure that everyone is back to the same level so you can all enjoy the game equally.... here is a free drinking cape."
Instead of doing that they come with, " YOU PEOPLE ARE CHEATING! BAN! BAN! BAAAAANNNN!! " They are blaming the players for their screw up. They, Funcom, were basically giving away free gold/exp, some people took it and now everyone paying for the dudes that said, "what the hell."
MMEEEEEHHHHH!!!
Even if that's how you define cheating, that's where the term exploiting comes into play.
If there is truth to the Deathwhisper OOC, they were banned for resource exploiting anyway, NOT gold storing on the guild leader.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Why, because I detest cheaters? I am glad you won't be playing AoC. We shall have decent people playing the game. Good riddance.
Sorry for my rudeness here, but no, its because you're so blindly faithful that Funcom knows what they're doing that you believe everyone who gets banned deserves it. Every single person. Maybe it should happen to you, then you can call yourself a cheater.
I am not blindly faithful to Funcom, I have been in tons of MMO's where people have been banned. There is a process they have to go through and an investigation. If they are truly innocent they will have their accounts reinstated as stated before. However, everyone that gets banned comes to forums and professes their innocence and I do mean everyone of them. We only get the players side of the story and sorry to say that isn't sufficient.We are not capable of determining if they are guilty or not but I have a hard time believing that everyone is innocent.
People that got banned had tons of gold. Hell I am level 30 in AoC and I have 12 silver. I have no clue as to how some of these people came to have 60+ gold in their possession.
If the OP is truly innocent and I have a hard time believing that (my personal opinion) then his account will be reinstated.
Word.I can't see anyone getting that much gold together in such a short time legitimately.
After reading your post, the only 'word' I can think of is idiot.It has been stated in several other threads that FC is banning GLs after they have collected all the guild members money. 60g is a small amount from a 100 member guild.
If the OP (and others) get reinstated, how does FC intend to compensate them for their lost play time? Probably won't and they will come back to these boards and complain which will hurt the game further. I suspect there will be a large drop in subscribers after 30 days and FC will need to put in some effort to get people to play again.
Lastly, I assume innocent until proven guilty. I don't judge others when I don't have all the facts at my disposal.
I love you mbd1968, why the hurtful remark? Oh, the torment!
There's really no need to go caveman on my arse. If you think I'm an idiot, keep it to yourself. I could just as easily start throwing names around but what difference is it going to make? You're 40. Act your age.
Ok so their banning people for using an exploit in the game? Their not botting, their not hacking, their using an exploit in the game itself. Instead of banning people shouldn't they fix the exploit? I mean I've played games with exploits before like SOH where you can play parts of mission to gain tons of XP then exit the mission and start again. In 2moons their was an exploit that you could stand in one place in a cave and kill tons of monsters and not get hurt yourself. An exploit is the devs problem and if a player uses it to benifit them then the dev should fix it.
Of course, but to Funcom's defense here, there's always going to be some stuff all companies miss. It's the players' jobs to report these exploits so they can be fixed, not...well...exploit them. You'll end up getting punished for it later on...this is what Funcom's doing right...what they're doing WRONG is being so general about it and banning innocents until they're proven innocent.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.