I agree with the premise. However, I am quite convinced that it is less harmful than World of WarCraft, so I am hopeful that the genre is recovering and getting back on its evolutionary feet -- which do stumble.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Umbral, +1 to everything you said, especially the part about what he thinks is "real" music.
Country music and metal are dumbed down versions of real music no matter what kind it is - nu metal to death metal or Tim Mcgraw to Johnny Cash. You aren't cultured at all for liking video games, you're just a jaded star wars fan (who is probably fat, most likely (sorry, it's the truth)).
I'm gonna listen to some real music - like Beethoven, Brahms, or Bach, and do something worthwhile...like read a BOOK or practice cello. The "masses" may be getting dumber, you included, but that doesn't matter to anyone who actually cares about culture.
Yes, you are right.
Games are games as pop music is pop music, it doesnt matter if it is a bit less popular.
An unpopular game doesnt make it more deeper than a game can be.
It is sad when you think most of people that judge the masses ( as the OP ) are just a bit less popular part of the masses...
...
Only a once anti could come to this. This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to. If you are an anti, you are also a pop culture within itself that shuns others, just because mainly that is what you do.
I really liked that part in another post you made about how elitest think they are superior to others. I use to do exactly this and frowned upon people, thinking my way of thinking was right.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea how I woke up and started smelling the bs I was shoveling. Anyway, it was one of my demons and hope I'm a better person for it now.
Yep, right there with ya. I think its called growing up, though. Some people grow up early, some later, some never.
To OP: Nice post ... maybe a little extreme... but meh !
Some thoughts on everything .. it is late and apologies as it is not written brilliantly. I may edit in morning or repost if its that bad ! Anyways...
MMO developers want commercial success. I dont blame them, I want money too! It costs big money to develop a 'AAA' titles nowadays and its not getting cheaper (much more than a music album I'd guess). WoW was a runaway success whether you love it or loathe it, so it was natural with the current plethora of console gamers that a company would try and go for an MMO that is both PC and console based. I.e. A wide market. AOC does this and throws in some 'adult content' to grab the kiddies and the sex starved drooling.
Many people probably wont be too upset that AOC is (possibly) all the bad things said on this board. Though just as many will be put off by this limitation.
Personally, it puts me off and I am avoiding AOC and never really expected much from it after I found out there would be an Xbox 360 release. Sadly, I think the majority of people will lap up AOC ( mindless consumerism abounds on these boards) and probably by a few months throw it away. I dont think were going to see massive longetivity like WoW or any other. Maybe, I'm wrong but I sense that AOC is not going a revolution only a slight evolution and mainly graphics not gameplay.
At the moment the PC market on the high street in the UK is loosing shelf space to the console, maybe due to online sales for PC games and maybe due to an emphasis on console over PC gaming by the industry. Many game releases especially for the console are pretty dumbed down moronic affairs that use sensationalism to sell..... cough .... cough... not mentioning any game in particular.
Personally I think all is not that bleak. The future of PC gaming is young and the future may be in the hands of independant small developers and even open source (gulp) that make innovative use of technologies ( remembering the PC is a developement platform after all... developers dont use joypads to program!). Using music as an example I think its all the mass of force fed pop that creates reactionary and sometimes great, sometimes just as dumb music.
Right now for MMO's I think is just a bad time. The future can only get better with more MMO's coming out and a market saturated with crap from which maybe the niche games can emerge that sections of the market desire. e.g. sandbox
Yep, right there with ya. I think its called growing up, though. Some people grow up early, some later, some never.
O really.
Sorry that you confuse me with an angry teenager (but they are likely more plugged in than most of you older cats). Some of you guys come off like you are "mature and "grown up." Pfff
It's called conformity. Don't try to justify it (please). It's the heard mentality. You really believe that you have "grown up" and that you have it all figured out. It's fence sitters like you that have wrecked our society.
Real life is not a game. My kids have to grow up in this sick world.
I guess we should just "go with the flow" and work hard for their fake paper money (I do work, yes), let them brainwash our children with materialism and low morals, let the evil controlled media become our new religion, let globalism turn us all into rootless surfs, let them rape our planet, who cares. $$$ is the new god. It's just the way it is, right.
In your desire to conform you have convinced yourself that you are correct. Don't pat yourself on the back too much. You are just what the globalist media masters hope for.
And I am not a Democrat or a Republican. This two party state we live in in the US is a joke. Man, it's no wonder a lot of Europeans and Asians think Americans are incredibly stupid.
I could lace you up on the real world... but I have not the desire nor the time.
And my beliefs are more in line with someone like Ron Paul rather than someone like Henry Rollins.
Wake up and then maybe you can start to grow up.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
MMO developers want commercial success. I dont blame them, I want money too! It costs big money to develop a 'AAA' titles nowadays and its not getting cheaper (much more than a music album I'd guess).
I agree.
But one has to wonder why film makers, with huge budgets too, can (and often do) create works of art.
Virtual worlds are in their infancy. The problem is that faceless mega corporations are raising it wrong. It's clear to anyone who wants to see. In the same vein of letting TV raise your kids.
Raph Koster is a visionary (and an artist, poet and musician). What Brad MQ tired to do with Vanguard was revolutionary and while his vision was not perfect (is anything?) it was a clear step in the right direction for the evolution of virtual worlds. He lacked the funds to complete his project (because MS wanted a Wow clone and insisted he change his direction once it was a hit).
Whats ironic is that major film makers often openly attack mainstream society, evil corporations, etc. (in essence, saying the same things I am), and I bet these same conformists in this thread love and watch these same films - but somehow miss the point entirely. American Beauty is a perfect example.
You can't argue with people like some of the above. They know their right.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
It's been just a little too long for the MMO to still be in it's infancy. More like a confused teenager of a market, who refuses to learn lessons from past mistakes.
Give it another 7 years and this annoying teen going through puberty will finally grow up and realize it's full potential.
Developers know better. It's just that no one has the courage to step up.
May I suggest one thing to developers:
1) Do not release an MMO as your FIRST title. You simply don't have the funding and experience for a truly great AAA MMO. You need to make an RPG first, or at least some kind of PC game. It will dramatically increase your chances, and give you additional starting funds for your MMO!
This game was admittedly designed for gaming consoles and is therefore a watered down version of a true MMORPG. AOC lead developer: "we designed AoC to be a console game from the beginning" "AoC's combat system has gone through nine iterations throughout Funcom's quest to make it appealing to console users." link It's worth as an "MMO" should not even be seriously debated considering this very clear truth. Further, this game in my opinion has the potential to damage the overall genera, bringing the core of what an MMO is to new lows. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to attack anyone personally. I'm trying to point out that the sole reason this corporation (Funcom) made this game is to try and tap into a bigger market. In other words they are exploiting our genera for financial gains and we as MMO gamers should consider the damage it has the potential to cause to it. Again, I'm not attacking anyone personally but consider the damage World of Warcraft has caused. It was such a hit ($$$) that every other, more complex MMO tried to emulate it. In effect, dumbing down the genera. I like to compare World of Warcraft to pop music because pop music is very shallow and easy to understand and (admittedly) fun to listen to, and it out sells all other styles of music (by a large margin). Pop music has damaged other styles of music, like country music (which today is candyass pop-fluff w/ no soul), ditto pop punk rock and nu metal. It is in this way that these watered down MMO's are going to damage our genera. You can say that it does not matter, that it's just another duck on the pond - but I respectfully disagree. In fact, I've lost much hope for the genera. These corporations ruin everything. Music is milked ruthlessly and turned into shallow trends, punk fashion is sold in mass chain stores like Hot Topic, it never ends. They destroy the essence of whatever it is they are trying to exploit-for-profit. MMORPG's are no exception. I'm out.
I will give you my 2 cents on why I think you are wrong.
If this game turns out to be FUN, FINISHED and FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL, then that is a step in the right direction. Merging platforms is a step in the right direction. It may not come out perfect the first few times, but bigger markets produce more generally.
You credit games being successful as somehow doing damage to the mmo genre which is something I strongly disagree with.
I credit a long list of failures in concept, design and execution for the state of MMOs today. If you are put in charge of making a game do you follow in the footsteps of companies that have delivered turd after turd or do you put you money on the few games that took the time to make a finished complete entertaining game?
To put things bluntly this industry needs a reboot. Developers need to stop shooting for the moon and missing by a mile and just start aiming for quality products that get the basics right with small advances. Once that becomes the absolute minimum standard, then maybe those companies can start taking chances again. Of course the big players [companies that is] are to obsessed with licensing popular franchises at the moment...
Country music and metal are dumbed down versions of real music no matter what kind it is - nu metal to death metal or Tim Mcgraw to Johnny Cash. You aren't cultured at all for liking video games, you're just a jaded star wars fan (who is probably fat, most likely (sorry, it's the truth)). I'm gonna listen to some real music - like Beethoven, Brahms, or Bach, and do something worthwhile...like read a BOOK or practice cello. The "masses" may be getting dumber, you included, but that doesn't matter to anyone who actually cares about culture.
So you believe that country music is a "dumbed down version of real music?" It's FOLK music. It sprung from the common people like folk music has always done throughout human history - long before Classical music emerged. You need a history lesson in music.
And talk about arrogant. "I'm gonna go listen to real music - like Beethoven..."
I love classical music. VERY much. But you are stuck in a very Anglo-Saxon view of musical history. What do you think existed before Classical?
Classical music evolved between 1550 and 1900. That basicly makes it MODERN music (the medieval period ended around 1453).
The earliest reference to "classical music" recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from about 1836.
Go play your cello (geek).
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
I personally believe, and can see with my own eyes this dumbing down of MMORPGS is a sympton of modern society it self.
Just look around and consider it.
My generation ( I'm 22 now ) was raised to be more self-sufficent in terms of entertaining outselves.
If I wanted to have fun with my mates when I was a wee youngest we went out and played sports, or invented games that involved us working with others etc etc. I remember making our own dungeon and dragon type games with dice and half-arsed maps.
Now days the generation that plays MMORPGS are those raised on Nitendos, XBOXs, Playstations etc etc.
Thus they have a hard time been intuitive ( on the larger scale ) to figure complicated matters out ( NOT THAT MMORPGS REQUIRE A PHD AS IT IS ).
Original MMORPGS didn't have interface mods that told you when the bosses were going to use their special abilities, it was knowledge handed down from those experienced in testing and trialing boss mobs. X Boss mob did fire breath @ 15-20% so watch out and be ready. Not, roll up with bossmod on and it alerts you IN 3 SECONDS BOSS X will do a 50m radius fire breathe stand behind his legs to avoid it.
The first MC raid I went on I was laughing at the complete and utter dickheads trying to run the raid; then when I popped on to vent I heard how old they where and it clicked. (They sounded like their balls hadn't dropped yet )
WoW in it's own right have done a great job to produce a game that this modern generation of quick buck bangs feel at home with. I myself think it's time for us who actually want to be challenged in our gaming time to move on. I work full-time now so I don't even play MMORPGS that much. It's taken me 9 days to reach level 23 in AoC because I have very little intiative to play modern MMORPGS. Admittedly though AoC has been entertaining enough for me to consider keeping my sub open.
Fancy art work, and good looking graphics don't make a game for me. Challenges and achievements do.
Again refer to my previous post in this thread about TIME + EFFORT = REWARD
I lost my faith in the MMO community back in 2004/5; and I've removed myself from been involved in the coming of 2nd gen mmorpg players because I envisioned this happened way back then.
If a company out there could see that they could get a solid 200k-300k sub with a challenging game with all the mod-cons I'd be the first to play it; but this sand-box WoW-model is set in stone now for the companies to cash in on.
Good luck to the new gen players, I get to take with me the memories of something richer then you'll ever get to experience. ( e.g my best memories in EQ was doing the SoulFire quest and all its associated guildies helping -- this quest alone would be harder than ANY quest in modern MMORPGS and it was only the beginning step of a much much harder quest ).
Yep, right there with ya. I think its called growing up, though. Some people grow up early, some later, some never.
O really.
Sorry that you confuse me with an angry teenager (but they are likely more plugged in than most of you older cats). Some of you guys come off like you are "mature and "grown up." Pfff
It's called conformity. Don't try to justify it (please). It's the heard mentality. You really believe that you have "grown up" and that you have it all figured out. It's fence sitters like you that have wrecked our society.
Real life is not a game. My kids have to grow up in this sick world.
I guess we should just "go with the flow" and work hard for their fake paper money (I do work, yes), let them brainwash our children with materialism and low morals, let the evil controlled media become our new religion, let globalism turn us all into rootless surfs, let them rape our planet, who cares. $$$ is the new god. It's just the way it is, right.
In your desire to conform you have convinced yourself that you are correct. Don't pat yourself on the back too much. You are just what the globalist media masters hope for.
And I am not a Democrat or a Republican. This two party state we live in in the US is a joke. Man, it's no wonder a lot of Europeans and Asians think Americans are incredibly stupid.
I could lace you up on the real world... but I have not the desire nor the time.
And my beliefs are more in line with someone like Ron Paul rather than someone like Henry Rollins.
Wake up and then maybe you can start to grow up.
You post reminds me of something.
I was reading Nathan Branden's book "Honoring the Self" and found the
following interesting...
Emotionally mature, autonomous individuals understand that other people do
not exist merely to satisfy their needs. Maturity entails accepting the
fact that no matter how much love and caring exist between two persons, each
of us is ultimately responsible for our happiness and self-esteem. An
autonomous individual does not experience his or her self-esteem as
continually in question or in jeopardy. The source of approval resides
within the self. It is not at the mercy of every encounter with another
person. One of the characteristics of the emotionally mature is that they
have grown beyond the need to prove to anyone that they are a good boy or a
good girl--or, for that matter, a rebellious badboy or bad girl.
Dont bother trying to defend yourself here, its honestly not doing anything but feeding the dogs.
What we have here is a generational difference. We GenX'rs are the product of the breakdown of the american way. Our parents were the ones who had to put up with their parents with the 1950s ideology, and imo in an attempt to break the mold they went too far. The 70s were a dysfunctional time for a lot of people and we genX'rs are a direct result of that 1970s backlash against the 1950s way of life. So basically were a generation of divorces, bad parenting, and self centered attitudes.
the "alternative" revolution was a driving force in my development as an adult, in a time when we had to listen to candy pop music that seemed to have only one facet, it was a godsend to finally hear some music dealing with the darker elements of life, as well as what weve had to face as a generation.
Fast forward to kids born in the 80s. The 80s were a time of decadence, wastefulness, and frankly the "its all about me" attitude really thrived. Now materialism runs rampant, and to quote an an anonymous ad exec. "We dont advertise to them, we tell them what to buy."
So were looking at the Gen Y people across a crevasse trying to figure out what the hell theyre thinking. Honestly it scares me to think of how Generation Y will cope in a world where the US powerhouse is in decline. With all the problems in the world, it seems to me that what we need as a country is to teach our children to be more introspective and "wordly", instead we are letting the media do too much parenting by letting them influence our culture and children.
Again, trying to explain yourself to a bunch of Gen Y people is like our parents trying to get us to understand them, we can to an extent, but since were from different times when different things were important, how can we really expect a understanding beyond a nod and a smile?
As for all the people tearing into the guy for his thoughts, well thats definately something that Gen Y is good at. When I was a kid if I had ran my mouth to an adult like kids do on the internet, my ass would have been kicked. I wouldnt have dared talk to an adult as disrespectfully as is the norm for today.
peace out man, hopefully itll be our kids who break this whole dependancy on hollywood, materialism, and the blatent "Im more important than you" attitude.
Dear OP, Dont bother trying to defend yourself here, its honestly not doing anything but feeding the dogs. What we have here is a generational difference. We GenX'rs are the product of the breakdown of the american way. Our parents were the ones who had to put up with their parents with the 1950s ideology, and imo in an attempt to break the mold they went too far. The 70s were a dysfunctional time for a lot of people and we genX'rs are a direct result of that 1970s backlash against the 1950s way of life. So basically were a generation of divorces, bad parenting, and self centered attitudes. the "alternative" revolution was a driving force in my development as an adult, in a time when we had to listen to candy pop music that seemed to have only one facet, it was a godsend to finally hear some music dealing with the darker elements of life, as well as what weve had to face as a generation. Fast forward to kids born in the 80s. The 80s were a time of decadence, wastefulness, and frankly the "its all about me" attitude really thrived. Now materialism runs rampant, and to quote an an anonymous ad exec. "We dont advertise to them, we tell them what to buy." So were looking at the Gen Y people across a crevasse trying to figure out what the hell theyre thinking. Honestly it scares me to think of how Generation Y will cope in a world where the US powerhouse is in decline. With all the problems in the world, it seems to me that what we need as a country is to teach our children to be more introspective and "wordly", instead we are letting the media do too much parenting by letting them influence our culture and children. Again, trying to explain yourself to a bunch of Gen Y people is like our parents trying to get us to understand them, we can to an extent, but since were from different times when different things were important, how can we really expect a understanding beyond a nod and a smile? As for all the people tearing into the guy for his thoughts, well thats definately something that Gen Y is good at. When I was a kid if I had ran my mouth to an adult like kids do on the internet, my ass would have been kicked. I wouldnt have dared talk to an adult as disrespectfully as is the norm for today. peace out man, hopefully itll be our kids who break this whole dependancy on hollywood, materialism, and the blatent "Im more important than you" attitude.
This is a fancy way of saying what I was putting forward in my above post.
yeah but in my defense, while I was typing, yours hadnt posted yet. great minds think alike eh?
I think it's more of an experience thing.
Think of all the 'worldly' knowledge your and my parents have over us.
My parents could not relate to me playing Everquest ... and now I can't relate to people playing WoW.
So the cycle continues??
But it is 100% true about the reduction of interaction required in modern entertainment. That I can clearly see. I have started to watching old Clint Eastwood movies from the 70s-80s because the storylines aren't as predictable as modern movies. Perhaps, it's a sign of getting old? I'm not sure because I'm only 22, I can't be THAT old that I am re-living nostalgia times that didn't belong to my generation just to avoid the crap that's been put foward to us now?
First of all AoC is not destroying anything and although you are right in a way about things getting changed, it will always be this way, things will never remain the same its the order of life, things just simply evolve, whether its for the good or the bad it is up to each person to decide. I personally don't think AoC is damaging the genre by taking it to another level but that is just my opinion but I do agree that somethings are making our future look sadder than ever(Spongebob again my opinion) but we just have to learn to adapt and move on with our lives because as you said, (most) corporations only care about money these days but its just human nature so what can we do about it.
First of all AoC is not destroying anything and although you are right in a way about things getting changed, it will always be this way, things will never remain the same its the order of life, things just simply evolve, whether its for the good or the bad it is up to each person to decide. I personally don't think AoC is damaging the genre by taking it to another level but that is just my opinion but I do agree that somethings are making our future look sadder than ever(Spongebob again my opinion) but we just have to learn to adapt and move on with our lives because as you said, (most) corporations only care about money these days but its just human nature so what can we do about it.
The point is that virtual worlds are NOT evolving.. they are de-evolving into linear, small, instanced console type games with on-line mode.
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
First of all AoC is not destroying anything and although you are right in a way about things getting changed, it will always be this way, things will never remain the same its the order of life, things just simply evolve, whether its for the good or the bad it is up to each person to decide. I personally don't think AoC is damaging the genre by taking it to another level but that is just my opinion but I do agree that somethings are making our future look sadder than ever(Spongebob again my opinion) but we just have to learn to adapt and move on with our lives because as you said, (most) corporations only care about money these days but its just human nature so what can we do about it.
The point is that virtual worlds are NOT evolving.. they are de-evolving into linear, small, instanced console type games with on-line mode.
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
the fact that you dont like the way something changes doesnt make it a devolving feature, it just means your kind of gameplay is getting replaced by something that attracts the younger and newer gamers rather than the old and outdated gamers, seriously i'm not missing your point just that i disagree with your opinion when it comes to AoC
First of all AoC is not destroying anything and although you are right in a way about things getting changed, it will always be this way, things will never remain the same its the order of life, things just simply evolve, whether its for the good or the bad it is up to each person to decide. I personally don't think AoC is damaging the genre by taking it to another level but that is just my opinion but I do agree that somethings are making our future look sadder than ever(Spongebob again my opinion) but we just have to learn to adapt and move on with our lives because as you said, (most) corporations only care about money these days but its just human nature so what can we do about it.
The point is that virtual worlds are NOT evolving.. they are de-evolving into linear, small, instanced console type games with on-line mode.
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
the fact that you dont like the way something changes doesnt make it a devolving feature, it just means your kind of gameplay is getting replaced by something that attracts the younger and newer gamers rather than the old and outdated gamers, seriously i'm not missing your point just that i disagree with your opinion when it comes to AoC
The thing you're not seeing is sure maybe the world isn't evolving but the combat system has. Its a small step in the right direction. Another game will come along that will have a combet system similar or better than AoC and be more open. Everything evolves in baby steps, just let AoC be what it is and let the people who are enjoying it enjoy it. In a year or two (maybe less) another game will come out that'll be better, if not a dev will see all the good parts of AoC and see its faults and make a game that has less fault and you'll be happier with it...or maybe you won't and you'll just find something to complain about in that game.
That's reality. It's just a bunch of crap companies trying to get rich. They don't care about making something mind-blowing. They care about getting you into zombie mode killing 50 million deer, bears, rabbits and taking the 40 minute hike back to the quest giver to kill 50 million more deers, beer and rabbits, all so you can go to the next level and do it again!
Wee! So fun! *snore*.
Someone call me when an MMO comes out that isn't just a grind to keep people chasing a carrot. Call me when an MMO comes out that actually gives an adrenaline rush again because there's some actual fun aspects and risks involved instead of a bunch of hand-holding chicken shit mechanics.
This game was admittedly designed for gaming consoles and is therefore a watered down version of a true MMORPG. AOC lead developer: "we designed AoC to be a console game from the beginning" "AoC's combat system has gone through nine iterations throughout Funcom's quest to make it appealing to console users." link It's worth as an "MMO" should not even be seriously debated considering this very clear truth. Further, this game in my opinion has the potential to damage the overall genera, bringing the core of what an MMO is to new lows. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to attack anyone personally. I'm trying to point out that the sole reason this corporation (Funcom) made this game is to try and tap into a bigger market. In other words they are exploiting our genera for financial gains and we as MMO gamers should consider the damage it has the potential to cause to it. Again, I'm not attacking anyone personally but consider the damage World of Warcraft has caused. It was such a hit ($$$) that every other, more complex MMO tried to emulate it. In effect, dumbing down the genera. I like to compare World of Warcraft to pop music because pop music is very shallow and easy to understand and (admittedly) fun to listen to, and it out sells all other styles of music (by a large margin). Pop music has damaged other styles of music, like country music (which today is candyass pop-fluff w/ no soul), ditto pop punk rock and nu metal. It is in this way that these watered down MMO's are going to damage our genera. You can say that it does not matter, that it's just another duck on the pond - but I respectfully disagree. In fact, I've lost much hope for the genera. These corporations ruin everything. Music is milked ruthlessly and turned into shallow trends, punk fashion is sold in mass chain stores like Hot Topic, it never ends. They destroy the essence of whatever it is they are trying to exploit-for-profit. MMORPG's are no exception. I'm out.
Wow not very Elitist are you?
Let me guess your one of the VG fanbois that used to tell everyone that didn't think the game was perfect on release to go away as they were newbs with $500 best computers and weren't hardcore enough to play in your Elite MMO?.
AOC is not WoW it brings a much deeper and interesting combat system to the genere which had been stagnanting in WoW clones. The character classes are different and interesting Not wow clones, also thank god Funcom took a risk and headed in the direction of better graphics and dropped the censures that have had a strangle hold on games since wow. More kiddie fantasy elves and bunnies is not really something I'm looking for though i'm sure there will always be a market for more wow and good clean killing as long is theres no blood. (Bloods almost as evil as breasts! )
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
I guess u really don't know what i´m talking about.
in AoC...wherever u are, when they get a certain number of players in the same zone, the game itself will create another copy of the same zone and new players will be placed in this new zone (called instance)...meaning u wont see them, unless u switch to the same instance they are. Its like mini servers inside the same server. It happens even inside the cities... Some ppl don't give a shit for this, but for me this is a total setback in the MMORPG genre....
Because 500+ other people can't be forced to be in the same zone as you listening to your inane Chuck Norris jokes? Or is it you just love the feel of competition of having 500+ players all competiting to get that one resource node? Personally I don't realy want 500 people all in the same market place zone as me, lagging the zone up, yelling for attention, dancing on top of mail boxes etc. Fortunately we both have the right to choose the game that we like.
This game was admittedly designed for gaming consoles and is therefore a watered down version of a true MMORPG. It's worth as an "MMO" should not even be seriously debated considering this very clear truth. Further, this game in my opinion has the potential to damage the overall genera, bringing the core of what an MMO is to new lows. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not trying to attack anyone personally. I'm trying to point out that the sole reason this corporation (Funcom) made this game is to try and tap into a bigger market. In other words they are exploiting our genera for financial gains and we as MMO gamers should consider the damage it has the potential to cause to it. Again, I'm not attacking anyone personally but consider the damage World of Warcraft has caused. It was such a hit ($$$) that every other, more complex MMO tried to emulate it. In effect, dumbing down the genera. I like to compare World of Warcraft to pop music because pop music is very shallow and easy to understand and (admittedly) fun to listen to, and it out sells all other styles of music (by a large margin). Pop music has damaged other styles of music, like country music (which today is candyass pop-fluff w/ no soul), ditto pop punk rock and nu metal. It is in this way that these watered down MMO's are going to damage our genera. You can say that it does not matter, that it's just another duck on the pond - but I respectfully disagree. In fact, I've lost much hope for the genera. These corporations ruin everything. Music is milked ruthlessly and turned into shallow trends, punk fashion is sold in mass chain stores like Hot Topic, it never ends. They destroy the essence of whatever it is they are trying to exploit-for-profit. MMORPG's are no exception. I'm out.
OMG you sound exactly like dictator from one of those banana countries..
80% of people love to listen POP music, 80% love to drink lager instead real beer, 80% people love fast food, 80% people love to watch Hollywood popcorn movies, 80% people love to play graphic shallow MMO(WoW, AOC) more than true deep one without graphic(MUD), etc.... it's just a way it is, and always will be.
He point something out , you as a AoC fanboi is hurt, belonging to that 80%, calls him dictator:(.
You sir are plain evil in calling someone a dictator.
Everybody is entitled to there opinion, freedom of speech, you maybe not agree with him, but becouse 80% likes junk, dont mean its ok then.
AoC is dumbdown for consoles and avarage gameplay, if you like it or not.
Its also a endless grind fest even wursh then WoW, but in few months alot will see and agree with this.
There many more things to point out why AoC is a bad game but it dont matter, you like it or not as simple as that.
Future will tell if mmo community like this kind of game, 6year old game design with 2008 grafics(dont see why people say this, only water looks 2008 grafics but ok lets not be to negative here).
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Let me guess your one of the VG fanbois that used to tell everyone that didn't think the game was perfect on release to go away as they were newbs with $500 best computers and weren't hardcore enough to play in your Elite MMO?.
Um, did you just copy and paste that from another thread? I read this exact text in another thread.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Comments
I agree with the premise. However, I am quite convinced that it is less harmful than World of WarCraft, so I am hopeful that the genre is recovering and getting back on its evolutionary feet -- which do stumble.
Yes, you are right.
Games are games as pop music is pop music, it doesnt matter if it is a bit less popular.
An unpopular game doesnt make it more deeper than a game can be.
It is sad when you think most of people that judge the masses ( as the OP ) are just a bit less popular part of the masses...
...
Only a once anti could come to this. This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to. If you are an anti, you are also a pop culture within itself that shuns others, just because mainly that is what you do.
I really liked that part in another post you made about how elitest think they are superior to others. I use to do exactly this and frowned upon people, thinking my way of thinking was right.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea how I woke up and started smelling the bs I was shoveling. Anyway, it was one of my demons and hope I'm a better person for it now.
Yep, right there with ya. I think its called growing up, though. Some people grow up early, some later, some never.
To OP: Nice post ... maybe a little extreme... but meh !
Some thoughts on everything .. it is late and apologies as it is not written brilliantly. I may edit in morning or repost if its that bad ! Anyways...
MMO developers want commercial success. I dont blame them, I want money too! It costs big money to develop a 'AAA' titles nowadays and its not getting cheaper (much more than a music album I'd guess). WoW was a runaway success whether you love it or loathe it, so it was natural with the current plethora of console gamers that a company would try and go for an MMO that is both PC and console based. I.e. A wide market. AOC does this and throws in some 'adult content' to grab the kiddies and the sex starved drooling.
Many people probably wont be too upset that AOC is (possibly) all the bad things said on this board. Though just as many will be put off by this limitation.
Personally, it puts me off and I am avoiding AOC and never really expected much from it after I found out there would be an Xbox 360 release. Sadly, I think the majority of people will lap up AOC ( mindless consumerism abounds on these boards) and probably by a few months throw it away. I dont think were going to see massive longetivity like WoW or any other. Maybe, I'm wrong but I sense that AOC is not going a revolution only a slight evolution and mainly graphics not gameplay.
At the moment the PC market on the high street in the UK is loosing shelf space to the console, maybe due to online sales for PC games and maybe due to an emphasis on console over PC gaming by the industry. Many game releases especially for the console are pretty dumbed down moronic affairs that use sensationalism to sell..... cough .... cough... not mentioning any game in particular.
Personally I think all is not that bleak. The future of PC gaming is young and the future may be in the hands of independant small developers and even open source (gulp) that make innovative use of technologies ( remembering the PC is a developement platform after all... developers dont use joypads to program!). Using music as an example I think its all the mass of force fed pop that creates reactionary and sometimes great, sometimes just as dumb music.
Right now for MMO's I think is just a bad time. The future can only get better with more MMO's coming out and a market saturated with crap from which maybe the niche games can emerge that sections of the market desire. e.g. sandbox
O really.
Sorry that you confuse me with an angry teenager (but they are likely more plugged in than most of you older cats). Some of you guys come off like you are "mature and "grown up." Pfff
It's called conformity. Don't try to justify it (please). It's the heard mentality. You really believe that you have "grown up" and that you have it all figured out. It's fence sitters like you that have wrecked our society.
Real life is not a game. My kids have to grow up in this sick world.
I guess we should just "go with the flow" and work hard for their fake paper money (I do work, yes), let them brainwash our children with materialism and low morals, let the evil controlled media become our new religion, let globalism turn us all into rootless surfs, let them rape our planet, who cares. $$$ is the new god. It's just the way it is, right.
In your desire to conform you have convinced yourself that you are correct. Don't pat yourself on the back too much. You are just what the globalist media masters hope for.
And I am not a Democrat or a Republican. This two party state we live in in the US is a joke. Man, it's no wonder a lot of Europeans and Asians think Americans are incredibly stupid.
I could lace you up on the real world... but I have not the desire nor the time.
And my beliefs are more in line with someone like Ron Paul rather than someone like Henry Rollins.
Wake up and then maybe you can start to grow up.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
But one has to wonder why film makers, with huge budgets too, can (and often do) create works of art.
Virtual worlds are in their infancy. The problem is that faceless mega corporations are raising it wrong. It's clear to anyone who wants to see. In the same vein of letting TV raise your kids.
Raph Koster is a visionary (and an artist, poet and musician). What Brad MQ tired to do with Vanguard was revolutionary and while his vision was not perfect (is anything?) it was a clear step in the right direction for the evolution of virtual worlds. He lacked the funds to complete his project (because MS wanted a Wow clone and insisted he change his direction once it was a hit).
Whats ironic is that major film makers often openly attack mainstream society, evil corporations, etc. (in essence, saying the same things I am), and I bet these same conformists in this thread love and watch these same films - but somehow miss the point entirely. American Beauty is a perfect example.
You can't argue with people like some of the above. They know their right.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
I'm not so sure.
It's been just a little too long for the MMO to still be in it's infancy. More like a confused teenager of a market, who refuses to learn lessons from past mistakes.
Give it another 7 years and this annoying teen going through puberty will finally grow up and realize it's full potential.
Developers know better. It's just that no one has the courage to step up.
May I suggest one thing to developers:
1) Do not release an MMO as your FIRST title. You simply don't have the funding and experience for a truly great AAA MMO. You need to make an RPG first, or at least some kind of PC game. It will dramatically increase your chances, and give you additional starting funds for your MMO!
I will give you my 2 cents on why I think you are wrong.If this game turns out to be FUN, FINISHED and FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL, then that is a step in the right direction. Merging platforms is a step in the right direction. It may not come out perfect the first few times, but bigger markets produce more generally.
You credit games being successful as somehow doing damage to the mmo genre which is something I strongly disagree with.
I credit a long list of failures in concept, design and execution for the state of MMOs today. If you are put in charge of making a game do you follow in the footsteps of companies that have delivered turd after turd or do you put you money on the few games that took the time to make a finished complete entertaining game?
To put things bluntly this industry needs a reboot. Developers need to stop shooting for the moon and missing by a mile and just start aiming for quality products that get the basics right with small advances. Once that becomes the absolute minimum standard, then maybe those companies can start taking chances again. Of course the big players [companies that is] are to obsessed with licensing popular franchises at the moment...
So you believe that country music is a "dumbed down version of real music?" It's FOLK music. It sprung from the common people like folk music has always done throughout human history - long before Classical music emerged. You need a history lesson in music.
And talk about arrogant. "I'm gonna go listen to real music - like Beethoven..."
I love classical music. VERY much. But you are stuck in a very Anglo-Saxon view of musical history. What do you think existed before Classical?
Classical music evolved between 1550 and 1900. That basicly makes it MODERN music (the medieval period ended around 1453).
The earliest reference to "classical music" recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from about 1836.
Go play your cello (geek).
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
I personally believe, and can see with my own eyes this dumbing down of MMORPGS is a sympton of modern society it self.
Just look around and consider it.
My generation ( I'm 22 now ) was raised to be more self-sufficent in terms of entertaining outselves.
If I wanted to have fun with my mates when I was a wee youngest we went out and played sports, or invented games that involved us working with others etc etc. I remember making our own dungeon and dragon type games with dice and half-arsed maps.
Now days the generation that plays MMORPGS are those raised on Nitendos, XBOXs, Playstations etc etc.
Thus they have a hard time been intuitive ( on the larger scale ) to figure complicated matters out ( NOT THAT MMORPGS REQUIRE A PHD AS IT IS ).
Original MMORPGS didn't have interface mods that told you when the bosses were going to use their special abilities, it was knowledge handed down from those experienced in testing and trialing boss mobs. X Boss mob did fire breath @ 15-20% so watch out and be ready. Not, roll up with bossmod on and it alerts you IN 3 SECONDS BOSS X will do a 50m radius fire breathe stand behind his legs to avoid it.
The first MC raid I went on I was laughing at the complete and utter dickheads trying to run the raid; then when I popped on to vent I heard how old they where and it clicked. (They sounded like their balls hadn't dropped yet )
WoW in it's own right have done a great job to produce a game that this modern generation of quick buck bangs feel at home with. I myself think it's time for us who actually want to be challenged in our gaming time to move on. I work full-time now so I don't even play MMORPGS that much. It's taken me 9 days to reach level 23 in AoC because I have very little intiative to play modern MMORPGS. Admittedly though AoC has been entertaining enough for me to consider keeping my sub open.
Fancy art work, and good looking graphics don't make a game for me. Challenges and achievements do.
Again refer to my previous post in this thread about TIME + EFFORT = REWARD
I lost my faith in the MMO community back in 2004/5; and I've removed myself from been involved in the coming of 2nd gen mmorpg players because I envisioned this happened way back then.
If a company out there could see that they could get a solid 200k-300k sub with a challenging game with all the mod-cons I'd be the first to play it; but this sand-box WoW-model is set in stone now for the companies to cash in on.
Good luck to the new gen players, I get to take with me the memories of something richer then you'll ever get to experience.
( e.g my best memories in EQ was doing the SoulFire quest and all its associated guildies helping -- this quest alone would be harder than ANY quest in modern MMORPGS and it was only the beginning step of a much much harder quest ).
O really.
Sorry that you confuse me with an angry teenager (but they are likely more plugged in than most of you older cats). Some of you guys come off like you are "mature and "grown up." Pfff
It's called conformity. Don't try to justify it (please). It's the heard mentality. You really believe that you have "grown up" and that you have it all figured out. It's fence sitters like you that have wrecked our society.
Real life is not a game. My kids have to grow up in this sick world.
I guess we should just "go with the flow" and work hard for their fake paper money (I do work, yes), let them brainwash our children with materialism and low morals, let the evil controlled media become our new religion, let globalism turn us all into rootless surfs, let them rape our planet, who cares. $$$ is the new god. It's just the way it is, right.
In your desire to conform you have convinced yourself that you are correct. Don't pat yourself on the back too much. You are just what the globalist media masters hope for.
And I am not a Democrat or a Republican. This two party state we live in in the US is a joke. Man, it's no wonder a lot of Europeans and Asians think Americans are incredibly stupid.
I could lace you up on the real world... but I have not the desire nor the time.
And my beliefs are more in line with someone like Ron Paul rather than someone like Henry Rollins.
Wake up and then maybe you can start to grow up.
You post reminds me of something.I was reading Nathan Branden's book "Honoring the Self" and found the
following interesting...
Emotionally mature, autonomous individuals understand that other people do
not exist merely to satisfy their needs. Maturity entails accepting the
fact that no matter how much love and caring exist between two persons, each
of us is ultimately responsible for our happiness and self-esteem. An
autonomous individual does not experience his or her self-esteem as
continually in question or in jeopardy. The source of approval resides
within the self. It is not at the mercy of every encounter with another
person. One of the characteristics of the emotionally mature is that they
have grown beyond the need to prove to anyone that they are a good boy or a
good girl--or, for that matter, a rebellious bad boy or bad girl.
...
Dear OP,
Dont bother trying to defend yourself here, its honestly not doing anything but feeding the dogs.
What we have here is a generational difference. We GenX'rs are the product of the breakdown of the american way. Our parents were the ones who had to put up with their parents with the 1950s ideology, and imo in an attempt to break the mold they went too far. The 70s were a dysfunctional time for a lot of people and we genX'rs are a direct result of that 1970s backlash against the 1950s way of life. So basically were a generation of divorces, bad parenting, and self centered attitudes.
the "alternative" revolution was a driving force in my development as an adult, in a time when we had to listen to candy pop music that seemed to have only one facet, it was a godsend to finally hear some music dealing with the darker elements of life, as well as what weve had to face as a generation.
Fast forward to kids born in the 80s. The 80s were a time of decadence, wastefulness, and frankly the "its all about me" attitude really thrived. Now materialism runs rampant, and to quote an an anonymous ad exec. "We dont advertise to them, we tell them what to buy."
So were looking at the Gen Y people across a crevasse trying to figure out what the hell theyre thinking. Honestly it scares me to think of how Generation Y will cope in a world where the US powerhouse is in decline. With all the problems in the world, it seems to me that what we need as a country is to teach our children to be more introspective and "wordly", instead we are letting the media do too much parenting by letting them influence our culture and children.
Again, trying to explain yourself to a bunch of Gen Y people is like our parents trying to get us to understand them, we can to an extent, but since were from different times when different things were important, how can we really expect a understanding beyond a nod and a smile?
As for all the people tearing into the guy for his thoughts, well thats definately something that Gen Y is good at. When I was a kid if I had ran my mouth to an adult like kids do on the internet, my ass would have been kicked. I wouldnt have dared talk to an adult as disrespectfully as is the norm for today.
peace out man, hopefully itll be our kids who break this whole dependancy on hollywood, materialism, and the blatent "Im more important than you" attitude.
Further, I am a Libertarian same as he is.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
This is a fancy way of saying what I was putting forward in my above post.
p.s Sounds like you're a Pink Floyd fan?
yeah but in my defense, while I was typing, yours hadnt posted yet. great minds think alike eh?
Think of all the 'worldly' knowledge your and my parents have over us.
My parents could not relate to me playing Everquest ... and now I can't relate to people playing WoW.
So the cycle continues??
But it is 100% true about the reduction of interaction required in modern entertainment. That I can clearly see. I have started to watching old Clint Eastwood movies from the 70s-80s because the storylines aren't as predictable as modern movies. Perhaps, it's a sign of getting old? I'm not sure because I'm only 22, I can't be THAT old that I am re-living nostalgia times that didn't belong to my generation just to avoid the crap that's been put foward to us now?
Make sense to you?
First of all AoC is not destroying anything and although you are right in a way about things getting changed, it will always be this way, things will never remain the same its the order of life, things just simply evolve, whether its for the good or the bad it is up to each person to decide. I personally don't think AoC is damaging the genre by taking it to another level but that is just my opinion but I do agree that somethings are making our future look sadder than ever(Spongebob
again my opinion) but we just have to learn to adapt and move on with our lives because as you said, (most) corporations only care about money these days but its just human nature so what can we do about it.
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
the fact that you dont like the way something changes doesnt make it a devolving feature, it just means your kind of gameplay is getting replaced by something that attracts the younger and newer gamers rather than the old and outdated gamers, seriously i'm not missing your point just that i disagree with your opinion when it comes to AoC
It's amazing how so many people can miss the entire point of this thread.
the fact that you dont like the way something changes doesnt make it a devolving feature, it just means your kind of gameplay is getting replaced by something that attracts the younger and newer gamers rather than the old and outdated gamers, seriously i'm not missing your point just that i disagree with your opinion when it comes to AoC
The thing you're not seeing is sure maybe the world isn't evolving but the combat system has. Its a small step in the right direction. Another game will come along that will have a combet system similar or better than AoC and be more open. Everything evolves in baby steps, just let AoC be what it is and let the people who are enjoying it enjoy it. In a year or two (maybe less) another game will come out that'll be better, if not a dev will see all the good parts of AoC and see its faults and make a game that has less fault and you'll be happier with it...or maybe you won't and you'll just find something to complain about in that game.
The genre blows right now.
That's reality. It's just a bunch of crap companies trying to get rich. They don't care about making something mind-blowing. They care about getting you into zombie mode killing 50 million deer, bears, rabbits and taking the 40 minute hike back to the quest giver to kill 50 million more deers, beer and rabbits, all so you can go to the next level and do it again!
Wee! So fun! *snore*.
Someone call me when an MMO comes out that isn't just a grind to keep people chasing a carrot. Call me when an MMO comes out that actually gives an adrenaline rush again because there's some actual fun aspects and risks involved instead of a bunch of hand-holding chicken shit mechanics.
Wow this thread is full of crap.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
Let me guess your one of the VG fanbois that used to tell everyone that didn't think the game was perfect on release to go away as they were newbs with $500 best computers and weren't hardcore enough to play in your Elite MMO?.
AOC is not WoW it brings a much deeper and interesting combat system to the genere which had been stagnanting in WoW clones. The character classes are different and interesting Not wow clones, also thank god Funcom took a risk and headed in the direction of better graphics and dropped the censures that have had a strangle hold on games since wow. More kiddie fantasy elves and bunnies is not really something I'm looking for though i'm sure there will always be a market for more wow and good clean killing as long is theres no blood. (Bloods almost as evil as breasts! )
You should have said more, like offfer some evidence that you have a clue what you are talking about.
Yes, AOC has los of instances, especially in the starter isle, but once you get out in the world, not so muh. It also has lots of zones, doubtful you know the difference.
I guess u really don't know what i´m talking about.
in AoC...wherever u are, when they get a certain number of players in the same zone, the game itself will create another copy of the same zone and new players will be placed in this new zone (called instance)...meaning u wont see them, unless u switch to the same instance they are. Its like mini servers inside the same server. It happens even inside the cities... Some ppl don't give a shit for this, but for me this is a total setback in the MMORPG genre....
Because 500+ other people can't be forced to be in the same zone as you listening to your inane Chuck Norris jokes? Or is it you just love the feel of competition of having 500+ players all competiting to get that one resource node? Personally I don't realy want 500 people all in the same market place zone as me, lagging the zone up, yelling for attention, dancing on top of mail boxes etc. Fortunately we both have the right to choose the game that we like.
OMG you sound exactly like dictator from one of those banana countries..
80% of people love to listen POP music, 80% love to drink lager instead real beer, 80% people love fast food, 80% people love to watch Hollywood popcorn movies, 80% people love to play graphic shallow MMO(WoW, AOC) more than true deep one without graphic(MUD), etc.... it's just a way it is, and always will be.
He point something out , you as a AoC fanboi is hurt, belonging to that 80%, calls him dictator:(.You sir are plain evil in calling someone a dictator.
Everybody is entitled to there opinion, freedom of speech, you maybe not agree with him, but becouse 80% likes junk, dont mean its ok then.
AoC is dumbdown for consoles and avarage gameplay, if you like it or not.
Its also a endless grind fest even wursh then WoW, but in few months alot will see and agree with this.
There many more things to point out why AoC is a bad game but it dont matter, you like it or not as simple as that.
Future will tell if mmo community like this kind of game, 6year old game design with 2008 grafics(dont see why people say this, only water looks 2008 grafics but ok lets not be to negative here).
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Um, did you just copy and paste that from another thread? I read this exact text in another thread.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.