Not only the way its implemented by when its implemented. If a game is advertised to contain a certain business model prior to release then people can either agree or disagree, buy or not buy. adding content, loot or whatever which requires separate payment in an existing and established MMO I find it unethical.
I also dislike the whole idea of changing business models in a live game. It used to be enough to just pay a subscription and get access to all the new vehicles, new structures, buffs etc.. Now people pay the same subscription fee but the only way certain things are added into the game is via RMT.
Also, I know of people who have been paying their subscription faithfully with the hope of rebuilding their crafting businesses. Remember, just before the RMT/TCG/random loot model was introduced, crafters were told that they would once again be relevant to the game. They had some long awaited revamps, but now don't have anything to do with some of the latest (and best) vehicles or structures.
Changing the rules (repeatedly) and now changing the business model is, in my view, an excellent way to undermine your own player retention.
I think SOE should look at games that are able to retain their populations. I think those games are doing a number of things right with regard to customer satisfaction. Two things they seem to avoid are massive rule rewrites and massive shifts to the business model after the game goes live.
As far as SWG"s TCG goes. People are still playing SWG, and some even spending money on the TCG. So, appearently, thats what the current SWG playerbase wants. If SOE is willing to provide that to them, you can't really blame SOE too much.
Its a good thing that people are made aware of how this card game differs from the norm before they spend money on it. Its also a good thing that the current SWG playerbase understands how it works if they dont, so they can decide for themselves if they want to support the tcg and swg. That there may be future harm done to the gaming industry from outside sources much worse than gold farmers by partaking in SOE's forms of RMT, or acting oblivious to the negatives and potential negatives.
We have so much money we want to give you SOE...This RMT revenue is a drop of water from an ocean of money. If you weirdos would just make another awesome game, done right. You wouldnt need your scams you stole from farmers. We would throw are money at you!! People should be willing to pay 50 a month for an MMO with the Sony brand on it. Instead you're taking kids allowances. Whatever, but is this why you got into the business? This your dream? MMO dev.. Just another job no one wants. Coming up with clever ways to charge cheaters for cheating. Or even better, design a whole game based on cheating, and profitting from it. Dirty money leaves stains. I guess get it while the gettin's good huh? ( Not like anyone form soe is gonna read this..dunno why its directed at them)
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I've logged in from time to time since the TCG came out, and I'm really not hearing any dissent from players. Granted I'm playing on Star Sider, the most populous server. Having taken into consideration that Blizzard has done this with the World of Warcraft trading card game for a while, along with the other obvious money grabs, I have seen little to no opposition. I think all of the people who dislike SOE are just using this as a new platform to vent. Where was the hate when Champions of Norrath came out? I must have missed it. Now I can't to be quoted a dozen times by the same person.
Yobviously have not reviewed the SWG oboards concerning TCG...oh thats right...the moderators there delete/moderate any TCG thread...
This has been covered many times...Wow's TCG and SWG's TCG is comparing apples and oranges....please do your homework.
Ok, so people buy trading card packs with hopes of getting in game loot and maybe playing the card game for both Warcraft and SWG. What's the difference? Is it because there's a third party making WoW's cards and Blizzard taking a cut out of each purchace? I know there's going to be some logic behind these threads, but I really find it hard to see anything but covert nerd rage.
There have been some good examples all ready, but I wanted to add a few that I feel are important.
SWG loot cards are sold as an in game product. They were designed to facilitate RMT where players spend money on packs of cards and can then sell them in game for in game currency. Smedley even admitted that the goal of the card game was to get into the RMT market. Essentially SOE is selling in game currency to players in an abstract way
As noted above, the card game, packs, loot cards all have a direct effect of the game, community and economy. It is not something that players can ignore, because even refusting to participate they cannot escape the effect of trading/selling cards has on their server
Every time soe cuts staff or slows down production timelines on expansions they speed up releases of card games, card game expansions or some other virtual item sales grab. There is a real ugly trend of soe slowing down real content releases and increasing effort of virtual sales. Effectively they are moving developers from producing content to be added to the game in a traditional manner and reselling that effort in a randomized manner that doesn't actually involve playing the game.
Pick any interview by john smedly, any one. Read the amount of questions he answers that are about revenue, money and ways to extract money from players in great detail and theory. Then read how little he actually talks about gameplay in his games and how disconnected he actually is from those concepts. He is the leader and this is his message to his developers and the effects are obvious on their games.
Anyone can play the wow card game and never own or subscriber to the mmo.
Not only the way its implemented by when its implemented. If a game is advertised to contain a certain business model prior to release then people can either agree or disagree, buy or not buy. adding content, loot or whatever which requires separate payment in an existing and established MMO I find it unethical.
I also dislike the whole idea of changing business models in a live game. It used to be enough to just pay a subscription and get access to all the new vehicles, new structures, buffs etc.. Now people pay the same subscription fee but the only way certain things are added into the game is via RMT.
Also, I know of people who have been paying their subscription faithfully with the hope of rebuilding their crafting businesses. Remember, just before the RMT/TCG/random loot model was introduced, crafters were told that they would once again be relevant to the game. They had some long awaited revamps, but now don't have anything to do with some of the latest (and best) vehicles or structures.
Changing the rules (repeatedly) and now changing the business model is, in my view, an excellent way to undermine your own player retention.
I think SOE should look at games that are able to retain their populations. I think those games are doing a number of things right with regard to customer satisfaction. Two things they seem to avoid are massive rule rewrites and massive shifts to the business model after the game goes live.
but see this is soe's attempt to compete with wow. cant generate/retain large sub numbers? get the few who play to pay more.
in a few years when the average price to play (and be competitive in ) a mmo doubles blame soe. other companies will tout the
"premium services" as easier than competing toe-to-toe with blizzards sub numbers.
The title for this TCG expansion, "Agents of Deception" seems oh-so-fitting for this game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I wonder how many more atrocoties they have left in the idea bank for this "game"?
Since they keep having to make the next "expansion" of new lottery tickets, (cough) "CARDS" more outrageous in the loot that they give out than the previous ones to keep the $$$ flowing, how far will they go?
Will they go as far as to offer special benefits, such as access to deleted professions (ie: TKA) , or a card that returns a Jedi to alpha class status?
Never say never.
One thing's for sure, anything new added to this game from now to closure will almost certainly be tied to TCG, as it's what's making money.
I guess I am a bad customer for SOE, I have never purchased TCG packs to get loot cards. Yet I have many of the premium loot just from the 5 free packs I get each month. The fact that I can get a "Boba Fett" jetpack in the TCG does not excite me since all my toons already have jetpacks.
Getting a new speeder, big whoop, I got a Pod racer and the command BARC whips it ass in a race.
Someone who has to be on the bleeding edge of loot in the game is most likely the same type of person who has to have those new $250.00 pair of shoes......................
I guess I am a bad customer for SOE, I have never purchased TCG packs to get loot cards. Yet I have many of the premium loot just from the 5 free packs I get each month. The fact that I can get a "Boba Fett" jetpack in the TCG does not excite me since all my toons already have jetpacks. Getting a new speeder, big whoop, I got a Pod racer and the command BARC whips it ass in a race. Someone who has to be on the bleeding edge of loot in the game is most likely the same type of person who has to have those new $250.00 pair of shoes......................
Your "free" packs (which are not actually free) only allows the loot cards from the current expansion boosters so if you wanted something from the previous boosters you need to coin up.
I guess I am a bad customer for SOE, I have never purchased TCG packs to get loot cards. Yet I have many of the premium loot just from the 5 free packs I get each month. The fact that I can get a "Boba Fett" jetpack in the TCG does not excite me since all my toons already have jetpacks. Getting a new speeder, big whoop, I got a Pod racer and the command BARC whips it ass in a race. Someone who has to be on the bleeding edge of loot in the game is most likely the same type of person who has to have those new $250.00 pair of shoes......................
Perhaps the problem isn't you the customer, but the company for doing this.
The new content model is to give players 5 chance a month to get something or else they have to pay up to see what new items have been put into the game. In the past players had to do things like quests, missions, pvp, craft and get involved with the community to actually get things in game.
It is obvious by the direction soe is taking as to who they consider their premium players and who they consider lesser players. You are not at fault as a player for their actions, well not entirely. The only thing you have power over is how much money you reward them with each month for running their business in this manner.
Comments
I also dislike the whole idea of changing business models in a live game. It used to be enough to just pay a subscription and get access to all the new vehicles, new structures, buffs etc.. Now people pay the same subscription fee but the only way certain things are added into the game is via RMT.
Also, I know of people who have been paying their subscription faithfully with the hope of rebuilding their crafting businesses. Remember, just before the RMT/TCG/random loot model was introduced, crafters were told that they would once again be relevant to the game. They had some long awaited revamps, but now don't have anything to do with some of the latest (and best) vehicles or structures.
Changing the rules (repeatedly) and now changing the business model is, in my view, an excellent way to undermine your own player retention.
I think SOE should look at games that are able to retain their populations. I think those games are doing a number of things right with regard to customer satisfaction. Two things they seem to avoid are massive rule rewrites and massive shifts to the business model after the game goes live.
As far as SWG"s TCG goes. People are still playing SWG, and some even spending money on the TCG. So, appearently, thats what the current SWG playerbase wants. If SOE is willing to provide that to them, you can't really blame SOE too much.
Its a good thing that people are made aware of how this card game differs from the norm before they spend money on it. Its also a good thing that the current SWG playerbase understands how it works if they dont, so they can decide for themselves if they want to support the tcg and swg. That there may be future harm done to the gaming industry from outside sources much worse than gold farmers by partaking in SOE's forms of RMT, or acting oblivious to the negatives and potential negatives.
We have so much money we want to give you SOE...This RMT revenue is a drop of water from an ocean of money. If you weirdos would just make another awesome game, done right. You wouldnt need your scams you stole from farmers. We would throw are money at you!! People should be willing to pay 50 a month for an MMO with the Sony brand on it. Instead you're taking kids allowances. Whatever, but is this why you got into the business? This your dream? MMO dev.. Just another job no one wants. Coming up with clever ways to charge cheaters for cheating. Or even better, design a whole game based on cheating, and profitting from it. Dirty money leaves stains. I guess get it while the gettin's good huh? ( Not like anyone form soe is gonna read this..dunno why its directed at them)
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yobviously have not reviewed the SWG oboards concerning TCG...oh thats right...the moderators there delete/moderate any TCG thread...
This has been covered many times...Wow's TCG and SWG's TCG is comparing apples and oranges....please do your homework.
Ok, so people buy trading card packs with hopes of getting in game loot and maybe playing the card game for both Warcraft and SWG. What's the difference? Is it because there's a third party making WoW's cards and Blizzard taking a cut out of each purchace? I know there's going to be some logic behind these threads, but I really find it hard to see anything but covert nerd rage.
There have been some good examples all ready, but I wanted to add a few that I feel are important.
I also dislike the whole idea of changing business models in a live game. It used to be enough to just pay a subscription and get access to all the new vehicles, new structures, buffs etc.. Now people pay the same subscription fee but the only way certain things are added into the game is via RMT.
Also, I know of people who have been paying their subscription faithfully with the hope of rebuilding their crafting businesses. Remember, just before the RMT/TCG/random loot model was introduced, crafters were told that they would once again be relevant to the game. They had some long awaited revamps, but now don't have anything to do with some of the latest (and best) vehicles or structures.
Changing the rules (repeatedly) and now changing the business model is, in my view, an excellent way to undermine your own player retention.
I think SOE should look at games that are able to retain their populations. I think those games are doing a number of things right with regard to customer satisfaction. Two things they seem to avoid are massive rule rewrites and massive shifts to the business model after the game goes live.
but see this is soe's attempt to compete with wow. cant generate/retain large sub numbers? get the few who play to pay more.
in a few years when the average price to play (and be competitive in ) a mmo doubles blame soe. other companies will tout the
"premium services" as easier than competing toe-to-toe with blizzards sub numbers.
forums.station.sony.com/strategygames/posts/list.m
The title for this TCG expansion, "Agents of Deception" seems oh-so-fitting for this game.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Don't bother quoting Koolaid, he got served with the facts and has gone into hiding under his SOE rock.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I wonder how many more atrocoties they have left in the idea bank for this "game"?
Since they keep having to make the next "expansion" of new lottery tickets, (cough) "CARDS" more outrageous in the loot that they give out than the previous ones to keep the $$$ flowing, how far will they go?
Will they go as far as to offer special benefits, such as access to deleted professions (ie: TKA) , or a card that returns a Jedi to alpha class status?
Never say never.
One thing's for sure, anything new added to this game from now to closure will almost certainly be tied to TCG, as it's what's making money.
I guess I am a bad customer for SOE, I have never purchased TCG packs to get loot cards. Yet I have many of the premium loot just from the 5 free packs I get each month. The fact that I can get a "Boba Fett" jetpack in the TCG does not excite me since all my toons already have jetpacks.
Getting a new speeder, big whoop, I got a Pod racer and the command BARC whips it ass in a race.
Someone who has to be on the bleeding edge of loot in the game is most likely the same type of person who has to have those new $250.00 pair of shoes......................
Your "free" packs (which are not actually free) only allows the loot cards from the current expansion boosters so if you wanted something from the previous boosters you need to coin up.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Perhaps the problem isn't you the customer, but the company for doing this.
The new content model is to give players 5 chance a month to get something or else they have to pay up to see what new items have been put into the game. In the past players had to do things like quests, missions, pvp, craft and get involved with the community to actually get things in game.
It is obvious by the direction soe is taking as to who they consider their premium players and who they consider lesser players. You are not at fault as a player for their actions, well not entirely. The only thing you have power over is how much money you reward them with each month for running their business in this manner.