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Rebel 'senator' removed
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OK...so we have a double standard where "I", as a customer, can't discuss my ban, yet Draakull can PM, post and rumor monger about me?
I think you could have him fired if you pushed the issue. You are a true gentleman TUX, even though this is a little less dramatic than we're used to. I also beleive the other Senator could lose his seat for what they have revealed here if you pushed it. Why you're not pushing it with any company who reveals anything about you or your relationship with them without your permission is rather odd to me. Especially when they banned you for defending yourself against lies they told. I dont see how they could be able to do any of that without your consent. At the very least an official apology should be given.
The whole thing seems rather lame though. Soe being lame as usual, and the senate for taking the positions in the first place after what happened to those who went before. Lame. Sorry, just an opinion, not flaming really.
Whens the vet trial due btw? All this drama, all these reviews and turd awards and talk about swg from mmorpg.com lately....happens every time a swg team leader leaves in one way or another on one site or another. Always before a major publish, and a followed by a vet trial. After almost 5 years, still the same song and dance. Hehe, im just kidding , except for the lame part.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
No, no one is saying he's responsible for SOE's bad decisions. Everyone knows that no player (senator included) dictates what goes on to the devs white board.
But what it has to do with is lacking the stones to stand up and make a stand against something when something is so plainly **edited** up. And that's something that Vince has never... And will never do. Vince is more concerned with playing "Internet politician" than actually representing the players. Its why when he went from smuggler senator to GP senator his head swelled to 5x its normal size and he started to think that he was above other senators. Its the reason why in private he'd send his little condescending PM's directing other senators to go read HIS nub senator guide any time someone posted something he didn't agree with thinking that he was in some sort of position to try to correct another senators posting demeanor... Which he's not.
Vince has ignored every large/game breaking issue during his term as GP senator. Why has he done this? Simple answer... He's afraid to step on some E-Toes and make some waves. As a result of that... He has almost no credibility with a very large segment of the forum posting population, especially among the PvP'ers who know game mechanics the best. Its the reason if you go to the forums you can find more people posting talking about the fail job that Vince has done than you could find spy fanboi's who hung my jock while spy was FOTM.
Being a senator isn't about being popular... It's not about trying to please everyone... Its not about seeking E-Votes from other senators. Its about representing the players. You do the job your community wants of you, or you need to GTFO. If they want you to make a stand against something... It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree... You stand up and make a stand against something. Agreeing with what your community wants isn't a prerequisite to represent their concerns. And that's exactly how I conducted myself when I was in the senate. And as a result of that... I had the backing of a lot of the commando community. I said things the way they were... Same as TUX and Bromi.
You accused me of making some sort of mistake... What mistake was that exactly? I broke NO forum rules... And you know that yourself since you've read all the PM's and emails... You know the real reason I was kicked... And you know there wasn't even a BS reason like there was with TUX where I broke some weaksauce rule... They kicked me simply because they didn't want me in the senate anymore which amounts to they kicked me because they could. And the decision to kick me coming strangely after me calling draak out for talking about me behind my back. So please tell me what my mistake was? Because last I checked, I had most of my community supporting me, and supporting the job I was doing.
The thing you need to realize is that there's a difference between working with CR and working with the devs. Because working with the two departments have very little to do with one another. In all my time as senator... I not once had trouble communicating with the devs weather by PM's, or in the private forums... I not once had problems going to TC and bugging Hjal to show him some bugs/exploits. My problem and the ultimate reason I was kicked is because I wouldn't strap on some kneepads for draak. When I found out he was saying sh*t about me behind my back I called him out on it... Suddenly he goes from "hey buddy we need to talk, can I call you this week" to "I don't feel the need to deal with this, I'll have my boss talk to you"... My oh my does his attitude change when you call him out on his bs. Talk about childish and vindictive.
Draak has managed to earn the title of worst CRM that SWG has ever had. He came out of the gate strong, and showed a lot of potential... But then he dropped the ball and started to make things a personal matter. As a result... All he's accomplished since joining the SWG team is causing people to unsub... And to cause the community to lose some very valuable community helpers.
I made no mistakes in my time as a senator. I might have brushed some people the wrong way in my time as senator... But I did the job my community wanted and expected of me... And to that extent... If I could take it all back... I'd do it all again exactly the same way.
I won't discount that things are screwed up as far as the CR goes at the moment.
But, to say that Drakull and them would have come out of the blue and come down on you for zero reason, implying that you wouldn't have had any negative posting history for them to chew on, is problematic in my opinion. Many other senators and ex senators have agreed that your posts were more than just "brushing people the wrong way". Many times, your attitude would out right attack other senators. They weren't not out right against forum policy, but they were certainly negative and rough enough to give them reason to say "You are not a good fit for the Senate".
Tux, unfortunately broke, publically, forum policy. You, took the stance that sanding up for your community meant constantly refusing to cooperate with your fellow senators if their opinion came even close to being dissimilar with yours.
But, from judging your history of thought, I hardly expect you to agree with me.
Wow...so...you wont risk your Senate seat to be vocal and represent the players you should, but you have no trouble asking THEM to speak up? That's just crazy.
lol They offered it before I even had the chance to ask. Maybe its the kind of community I represent, or maybe its just because its always been clear I can take the public "nice guy" approach and that has often brought forth friends who want to voice the not so nice opinions.
I let them speak up and out passionately. I don't ask them to violate forum rules. I don't ask them to personally attack players. I don't ask them to do anything stpuid. They do sometimes, but I don't ask them that. I ask them to say what I can't say. It also helps to have more than one voice. Passionate support of something calmly displayed to the developers gets attention sometimes, more than just a bunch of dogs barking at the owner for food.
Read what you posted originally again. I've underlined the parts where you said it differently.
Point is, I feel YOU should be the voice...that's what YOU are a Senator for. YOU shouldn't ask anyone to speak for you or do your dirty work. But perhaps it works for you...I would just never take that approach.
I don't see it as them "doing my dirty work". Its a part of the system. Have you ever worked in politics or been involved in RL organizations that work either in a political or bigger institution Tux? Nothing is ever clear cut, when it comes to the social politics (the small guys working to get the big guys to do something), you have to work on more than one level.
Maybe you could think of my friends and fellow smugglers as the "lobbyists" that shout on the streets and hold up signs showing support.
Asking them to "say what you can't" is doing your dirty work. Get a freakin backbone and stand up.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
No, no one is saying he's responsible for SOE's bad decisions. Everyone knows that no player (senator included) dictates what goes on to the devs white board.
Excluding Badger...he is the omnipotent SWG player representative
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I won't discount that things are screwed up as far as the CR goes at the moment.
But, to say that Drakull and them would have come out of the blue and come down on you for zero reason, implying that you wouldn't have had any negative posting history for them to chew on, is problematic in my opinion. Many other senators and ex senators have agreed that your posts were more than just "brushing people the wrong way". Many times, your attitude would out right attack other senators. They weren't not out right against forum policy, but they were certainly negative and rough enough to give them reason to say "You are not a good fit for the Senate".
Tux, unfortunately broke, publically, forum policy. You, took the stance that sanding up for your community meant constantly refusing to cooperate with your fellow senators if their opinion came even close to being dissimilar with yours.
But, from judging your history of thought, I hardly expect you to agree with me.
You've seen the PM's for yourself... You can see draak going from "hey buddy lets talk" to after I called him out saying "I don't feel the need to deal with this, I'll have my boss handle this"... You've seen that for yourself. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar talking about me behind my back... And his response to it was to have his boss remove me from the senate. Rather than to own up to it and the fact that he was talking about me behind my back... The simple solution was to simply get rid of me all together.
And as for what ex senators think... I'm sorry, but my posts never violated the forum rules. And despite those who want to brown nose and carry on under this notion that senators should walk around pretending that their sh*t doesn't stink... The forum TOS is the forum TOS no matter who you are. There is ZERO documentation, and ZERO communication from CR to inform any senator as to what they should and shouldn't post, and how they should and shouldn't conduct themselves. So as you and others may carry on as if there's this higher set of standards... There's ZERO documentation of it. If my posts violated the TOS... I'd have warnings... I'd have suspensions... I'd have been banned... But you and I both know that isn't the case. My removal despite SOE's double talk comes down to the fact that they have the power to remove me... Thus I was removed. And while you can try to argue that point... Just look at why Bromi was removed. No communication... Nothing... Just flat out kicked. Spin it and try to sell it how you want... The message is being sent that any voice of opposition in the senate will be silenced.
And as for what you said about TUX... And how he broke the forum posting guidelines... What he posted got him a 3 day suspension from the forums... Draak being vindictive and childish and specifically snooping through his PM's from another forum account is what actually got him kicked. He wasn't removed for what he posted... He was removed after he told one player via PM on the forums that "I think the CRM has it out for me". I've seen the PM's... And that's what prompted draak to do what he did, and then run around posting everything else.... Its also what prompted draak to adjust his ban to a 2 week ban instead of a 3 day ban. Its pure childish and vindictive behavior that is highly highly unprofessional for someone in customer relations.
(and TUX sorry for posting this with out your permission first)
And as for this: "You, took the stance that sanding up for your community meant constantly refusing to cooperate with your fellow senators if their opinion came even close to being dissimilar with yours."
Senators aren't there to get E-Votes from other senators. Cooperation with other senators has NOTHING to do with the role of a senator. Cooperation isn't a prerequisite for a senator to represent their aspect. I post something that's important to my community or important to the PvP community, and you come in and agree with it... I mean WOW... Does that mean its going to get added ASAP, or even added at all? NO! Having a senator agree and to get their "E-Vote" means jack.
Its like I said.. Being a senator isn't about being popular... It's not about trying to please everyone... Its not about seeking E-Votes from other senators. Its about representing the players. You do the job your community wants of you, or you need to GTFO. And the vast majority of time when I posted I was either representing the commando community, or the PvP'ing community (who atm completely lack representation in the senate). Can I defend every one of my posts? No. Can I defend the majority... Very very easily.
I appreciate you guys' passion for representing your community, but not everyone feels that they way to get something done is to actively attack other Senators, berating them with your opinion and not at all listening to theirs...which is what you did repeatedly Anxiety. About the only time you seemed civil was in voice chat...but you can hardly berate someone the same way when your talking to them in voice.
I think its amusing that you and some others feel that, if I or other Senators are not flipping our lids on the forums, then we are cowards or brown-nosers. Its amusing to me because I am sure there is no way to change how you see it...you're pretty set in stone. Call me as you will, but I'm still here as a Senator and "I" can confident and proud in the stance I take and how I take it.
I guess the ultimate point of why I keep arguing here isn't to change how you do things. Hardly that. It is to point out that you two (Anxiety and Tux) are not 100% Victims. Sure, Drak and the corruption there are playing their part, but you guys played yours. And the roles you played do not ultimately serve the communities you were attempting to represent in any positive way.
I guess the way I'm coming across might make some assume I"m saying I'm perfect here ,or that i feel the way "I" do it is the only way to do it. Nope, atleast, thats not what I'm trying to say. What I "am" trying to say is that, though there are many ways to go about being a Senator, there are some ways that are a LOT less productive......and those that are actively negative are not.
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me in the least to see SOE 'removing' people who are good for the community. Granted, Tux and I had our disagreements when I still played, but he was a tremendous asset to the community.
Wonder how many times SOE can screw the pooch before they lose enough customers to make it cease to be worthwhile to keep any servers open for any games?
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
2 publishes for zombies, even the guy in charge of it bails before this mockery is released. From the outside looking in, it's hard to not laugh at how serious you guys are about your Senate positions. Not that you shouldn't be or anything, or proud of what you do, just funny from an outsider's perspective. I know i have nothing to do with this conversation, or know nada about it really, but no wonder the Senate is a joke. And there are others lining up to take the spot lol...still.
Someone nominate the vet refuge here on mmorpg.com. We can play for free at least...more than the senate has been able to accomplish for the paying community lol. We've also provided you with many old houses for you to destroy..what content has the senate provided for SWG? We give the current players others to hate instead of SOE, can the current Senate deflect for SOE as well? Not funny?
You guys would make great community leaders in other games for sure though. Wasting your abilities with this game and dev team. It's beyond obvious...one of the old CM's even said as much, and one of the reasons he bailed. It's just kinda funny hearing you guys talk about it the way you do.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I resent the notion that "I" attacked any other Senators. That's simply false.
I guess given the success you've had with working with the Dev team to get the perfect Smuggling system implemented, maybe your passive yet aggressive behind the scenes approach works huh?
Iheamylap...you are NOT "here" as a Senator...this isn't the forum you seem to think it is. Here, we're ALL equals (minus Mods who are the Gods!).
I'm glad you're amused too - at least you have humor to keep you occupied...God knows there aren't enough players left to keep you amused in-game.
And as for not representing my community "in any positive way", I have tons of supporters who felt differently (emails, deleted posts and PMs to prove it). Maybe it's because I did have the balls to stand up and speak out, maybe it was the fact that i took EVERYONE into consideration, maybe it's because I felt I was there for the players, not myself or maybe it's because I was just lucky enough to have the most ignored and abused segment of the game as my aspect to represent...whatever it was, the fact that so many people have supported me and my "negative attitude" suggest you're incorrect in that assertion. The GCW is central to Star Wars - it was neutered in CU and completely abolished in NGE...it's been missing from this game for far too long.
Anyway...you go about your business, do things your way and hopefully you can get the change you seek. Have others do your dirty work so you maintain your appearance of being the diplomat (even though you admitted on a public forum you like to encourage others to "rock the boat").
You can pretend it was MY actions that lead to my removal...but the facts, no matter how much of a tightrope I may have walked, just don't support that allegation.
I won't discount that things are screwed up as far as the CR goes at the moment.
But, to say that Drakull and them would have come out of the blue and come down on you for zero reason, implying that you wouldn't have had any negative posting history for them to chew on, is problematic in my opinion. Many other senators and ex senators have agreed that your posts were more than just "brushing people the wrong way". Many times, your attitude would out right attack other senators. They weren't not out right against forum policy, but they were certainly negative and rough enough to give them reason to say "You are not a good fit for the Senate".
Tux, unfortunately broke, publically, forum policy. You, took the stance that sanding up for your community meant constantly refusing to cooperate with your fellow senators if their opinion came even close to being dissimilar with yours.
But, from judging your history of thought, I hardly expect you to agree with me.
You've seen the PM's for yourself... You can see draak going from "hey buddy lets talk" to after I called him out saying "I don't feel the need to deal with this, I'll have my boss handle this"... You've seen that for yourself. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar talking about me behind my back... And his response to it was to have his boss remove me from the senate. Rather than to own up to it and the fact that he was talking about me behind my back... The simple solution was to simply get rid of me all together.
And as for what ex senators think... I'm sorry, but my posts never violated the forum rules. And despite those who want to brown nose and carry on under this notion that senators should walk around pretending that their sh*t doesn't stink... The forum TOS is the forum TOS no matter who you are. There is ZERO documentation, and ZERO communication from CR to inform any senator as to what they should and shouldn't post, and how they should and shouldn't conduct themselves. So as you and others may carry on as if there's this higher set of standards... There's ZERO documentation of it. If my posts violated the TOS... I'd have warnings... I'd have suspensions... I'd have been banned... But you and I both know that isn't the case. My removal despite SOE's double talk comes down to the fact that they have the power to remove me... Thus I was removed. And while you can try to argue that point... Just look at why Bromi was removed. No communication... Nothing... Just flat out kicked. Spin it and try to sell it how you want... The message is being sent that any voice of opposition in the senate will be silenced.
And as for what you said about TUX... And how he broke the forum posting guidelines... What he posted got him a 3 day suspension from the forums... Draak being vindictive and childish and specifically snooping through his PM's from another forum account is what actually got him kicked. He wasn't removed for what he posted... He was removed after he told one player via PM on the forums that "I think the CRM has it out for me". I've seen the PM's... And that's what prompted draak to do what he did, and then run around posting everything else.... Its also what prompted draak to adjust his ban to a 2 week ban instead of a 3 day ban. Its pure childish and vindictive behavior that is highly highly unprofessional for someone in customer relations.
(and TUX sorry for posting this with out your permission first)
And as for this: "You, took the stance that sanding up for your community meant constantly refusing to cooperate with your fellow senators if their opinion came even close to being dissimilar with yours."
Senators aren't there to get E-Votes from other senators. Cooperation with other senators has NOTHING to do with the role of a senator. Cooperation isn't a prerequisite for a senator to represent their aspect. I post something that's important to my community or important to the PvP community, and you come in and agree with it... I mean WOW... Does that mean its going to get added ASAP, or even added at all? NO! Having a senator agree and to get their "E-Vote" means jack.
Its like I said.. Being a senator isn't about being popular... It's not about trying to please everyone... Its not about seeking E-Votes from other senators. Its about representing the players. You do the job your community wants of you, or you need to GTFO. And the vast majority of time when I posted I was either representing the commando community, or the PvP'ing community (who atm completely lack representation in the senate). Can I defend every one of my posts? No. Can I defend the majority... Very very easily.
Iheamylap, you and Vincent make me sick. I am too angry this evening to articulate, but I DO have a suggestion go back to the SWG and tell Draakull that unlike the SOE forums you can't stop the truth by banning people, locking threads or removing posts. Let Tux and the veteran players who quit the game over this whole fiasco alone. YOU have no frigging idea of what really went on and the more you post the more ignorant you appear...I will just say this tonight...as far as senatorial behavior... Vincent, your arrogant and flagrant post a few weeks ago where you purposely used **edit**after all this crap went down with Tux? I demanded you have a 3 day ban and what happened? Your post disappeared as well as my repeated complaints? Bet you and Draakull had a good chuckle over that.
I also have a few screenshots of other senators one for instance screaming the F* word in spatial and demanding players cancel their accounts cause SOE sucks and that was on the night where all the rebs and imps were gathered to secure banners over sixty some Rebs present that made for a nice senatorial representation... as well as demeaning comments about he players you represent crying their little *E* tears.
WHAT!?!?!? Me?! But...but...I ALWAYS agreed with you - check my post history. If it doesn't support my claim, OBVIOUSLY SoE tampered with it
Bah...like the guy below you said, it's silly to have wasted so much on a company that cares sooooo little...I'm upset it took me 5+ years to figure it out though >.<
Let the game die. If it closed tomorrow, I'd do nothing but grin
TBH...I had two lawyers contact me that I sent all the information to. They claim it's "actionable" because slander, even on a forum, is still slander. What I do with that knowledge is undecided as of yet.
As far as getting Draakull fired...nah...it was soooo much easier for SoE to ban me and try to discredit me than it was to admit a mistake was made with Draakull...a suicidal low life. Firing Draakull would be admitting a mistake in character was made by Rich and Linda of SoE...somehow, they don't strike me as the type who handle being wrong very well
There are only so many people I can contact HIGHER up...and trust me, I let them ALL know. What they do with that information is out of my hands but I'd bet that my email address is just blacklisted now.
I did what I felt was best for me (for now)...I stopped paying them. I can't fight Sony...all I can really do is not support them. And that's exactly what I am doing.
And there it is right there. Turning your back on those who have been cast out and trying to place blame on them for creating the situation. There is no specific instance of anxiety breaking any rules. Nothing he did triggered his removal, but "something" in his past somehow justifies this. The same "something" that I am certain can be found done by every senator at some time or another. An 'official disturber of the peace' is the reason huh?
As I predicted earlier in this post, you just did it. You tried to justify soe pissing on someone without proper cause and trying to clean up the mess by shifting blame and labeling someone. You certainly got the message soe was sending loud and clear and you chose to not only accept what they did quietly, you stepped up to play ball by trying to justify it.
Now it is your opinion that in the last few days all these senators somehow became an issue that was worth kicking and banning them?
What are the odds of that happening at the same time some foul mouthed, disrespectful, tactless jackass becomes the new community relations manager? For heavens sake, drakkull was openly mocking the players on his own forums and laughing at their concerns within a few days of taking the job! What kind of person does that and more importantly doesn't get fired? If someone from any other company stayed up till the wee hours of the morning having a flame war with the customers they would be fired so fast it isn't even funny. Calling your customers cry babies?
Yes Drakuul came down on the senators for a reason, but it is a reason you don't seem to want to admit. They would not line up like good little cheerleaders. You saw Drakuuls reaction to common players when they complained right? What do you think his reaction was to senators who voice any criticism.
This is the toolbox you are backing in this situation? This is they guy you think you are going to get anything done with in the senate program? Let us know how speedy your top 5 list is addressed with the new senate leader.
TBH...I had two lawyers contact me that I sent all the information to. They claim it's "actionable" because slander, even on a forum, is still slander. What I do with that knowledge is undecided as of yet.
As far as getting Draakull fired...nah...it was soooo much easier for SoE to ban me and try to discredit me than it was to admit a mistake was made with Draakull...a suicidal low life. Firing Draakull would be admitting a mistake in character was made by Rich and Linda of SoE...somehow, they don't strike me as the type who handle being wrong very well
There are only so many people I can contact HIGHER up...and trust me, I let them ALL know. What they do with that information is out of my hands but I'd bet that my email address is just blacklisted now.
I did what I felt was best for me (for now)...I stopped paying them. I can't fight Sony...all I can really do is not support them. And that's exactly what I am doing.
Man at least contact LA and demand a beta spot for TOR or something lol. I can see why people elected you. You're quite a stand up guy.
We Welcome you with open arms to the swg afterlife here btw. Not sure what kind of community would reject you, but we're happy to have you. Funny how those who choose to make you the culprit here have absolutely no arguement without the mob to back them up with lame one-liners isnt it? I'm kinda hoping they'll bring their backups over here:)
You should head over to the TOR forums here..entertaining to say the least. Mostly just a bunch of forum squaters pretending BIoware is making a game just for them. They could use a community leader. Really bad.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
TBH you have the wrong lawyers!
Slander and libel are false or malicious claims that may harm someone's reputation. If false, malicious statements are published in mainstream media (i.e. on the internet, in a magazine, etc.) then it is classified as "libel". If the defamatory statements are only spoken, then it is called "slander".
So if your going after what was spoken to you and you have it recorded most all lawyers know this is considered slander! You will have to follow each state laws if it was being recorded and both parties were not aware of it. If it is liable that will be the written form of defimation of character!
If your statement is accurate then you best go find 2 new lawyers to speak with since on forums slander is considered libel since it is written form!
SOE doesnt care about black people.....
Wait thats W. Bush.
My bad.
So much crap, so little quality.
WHAT!?!?!? Me?! But...but...I ALWAYS agreed with you - check my post history. If it doesn't support my claim, OBVIOUSLY SoE tampered with it
Bah...like the guy below you said, it's silly to have wasted so much on a company that cares sooooo little...I'm upset it took me 5+ years to figure it out though >.<
Let the game die. If it closed tomorrow, I'd do nothing but grin
I'd call you on that bet, Tux, but I'm afraid the accounts that I PMmed you on and replied to some of your threads on are somewhat slightly banned. SOE has a long history of slapping us unruly little party poopers with permabans. I believe my main was banned was for politely informing a former community manager how I felt about her picking and choosing what rules she would enforce and with whom. That Community Manager's refusal to abide by her own rules was why I left the Warden program (which they asked me to join when they started it up) and eventually, the game. My other account that I actually used was banned from all SOE boards after I kind of made my (very unpleasant - I believe my precise words were along the lines of SOE being fascist jackasses...or something like that) opinion of SOE known on the MxO boards.
As for Vincent - in my opinion, based on what I've seen him post on the SOE boards over the years, he is a putz. Sadly, that isn't likely to change.
As for the Smuggler senator...grow a pair. You're there to do a job and that job is to represent your profession or area of expertise within the playerbase - not to have a few people in the playerbase do that job for you so that they stink to high heaven and you come out smelling like a perfumed rose. The fact that you need a good surgeon to remove your nose from the collective rear ends of every 'red name' on Sony's boards does not mean that you are doing a good job - or even that you are doing your job at all. There are so many names that I could list of former senators who did an exceptional job, yet still managed to have the intestinal fortitude to put their own necks (and accounts) on the line for their portion of the playerbase...but then again, that would be why they are all former senators: doing the task they were put there to do was more important to them than keeping a semblance of 'superiority' that the much of the playerbase has considered a joke since GreyPawn left (maybe it would help if some senate positions didn't seem to rotate among the same few people? *cough* Badger, Vincent, Jod *cough*).
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I resent the notion that "I" attacked any other Senators. That's simply false.
I guess given the success you've had with working with the Dev team to get the perfect Smuggling system implemented, maybe your passive yet aggressive behind the scenes approach works huh?
Iheamylap...you are NOT "here" as a Senator...this isn't the forum you seem to think it is. Here, we're ALL equals (minus Mods who are the Gods!).
I'm glad you're amused too - at least you have humor to keep you occupied...God knows there aren't enough players left to keep you amused in-game.
And as for not representing my community "in any positive way", I have tons of supporters who felt differently (emails, deleted posts and PMs to prove it). Maybe it's because I did have the balls to stand up and speak out, maybe it was the fact that i took EVERYONE into consideration, maybe it's because I felt I was there for the players, not myself or maybe it's because I was just lucky enough to have the most ignored and abused segment of the game as my aspect to represent...whatever it was, the fact that so many people have supported me and my "negative attitude" suggest you're incorrect in that assertion. The GCW is central to Star Wars - it was neutered in CU and completely abolished in NGE...it's been missing from this game for far too long.
Anyway...you go about your business, do things your way and hopefully you can get the change you seek. Have others do your dirty work so you maintain your appearance of being the diplomat (even though you admitted on a public forum you like to encourage others to "rock the boat").
You can pretend it was MY actions that lead to my removal...but the facts, no matter how much of a tightrope I may have walked, just don't support that allegation.
When I was talking about attacking other Senators, I meant that directed at Anxiety, sorry about that. Your also mistaking most of my direction about supporting the community in a negative way as being directed at you, when I am directing it at Anxiety. So, sorry for the confusion.
You right, I am not here as Senator, which is one reason why I'm speaking my mind to you. Its obvious in both of our postings that our experiences as Senators/Ex Senators are influencing what we want to say. I don't see how I'm being passive aggressive here either, I think I've spoke my mind pretty clearly. Should I resort to name calling like you did to Vincent? Is that the kind of aggressive you expect?
I think its funny that you guys bring up my mentioning of allowing others to "rock the boat" while I maintain the public face as something I shouldn't admit or be public about. I don't see how its anything wrong, because like I said, I do not ask people to violate forum rules. I just ask them to be loud and vocal in ways that would otherwise get me IGNORED by the developers. I'm sorry if you guys don't see it, but there are many ways to get something heard and scene, and not all of them involve the *leader* standing up and screaming his guts out constantly. Especially when some folks are better at it than he is.
And there it is right there. Turning your back on those who have been cast out and trying to place blame on them for creating the situation. There is no specific instance of anxiety breaking any rules. Nothing he did triggered his removal, but "something" in his past somehow justifies this. The same "something" that I am certain can be found done by every senator at some time or another. An 'official disturber of the peace' is the reason huh?
As I predicted earlier in this post, you just did it. You tried to justify soe pissing on someone without proper cause and trying to clean up the mess by shifting blame and labeling someone. You certainly got the message soe was sending loud and clear and you chose to not only accept what they did quietly, you stepped up to play ball by trying to justify it.
Now it is your opinion that in the last few days all these senators somehow became an issue that was worth kicking and banning them?
What are the odds of that happening at the same time some foul mouthed, disrespectful, tactless jackass becomes the new community relations manager? For heavens sake, drakkull was openly mocking the players on his own forums and laughing at their concerns within a few days of taking the job! What kind of person does that and more importantly doesn't get fired? If someone from any other company stayed up till the wee hours of the morning having a flame war with the customers they would be fired so fast it isn't even funny. Calling your customers cry babies?
Yes Drakuul came down on the senators for a reason, but it is a reason you don't seem to want to admit. They would not line up like good little cheerleaders. You saw Drakuuls reaction to common players when they complained right? What do you think his reaction was to senators who voice any criticism.
This is the toolbox you are backing in this situation? This is they guy you think you are going to get anything done with in the senate program? Let us know how speedy your top 5 list is addressed with the new senate leader.
1. I didn't say Anxiety broke rules specifically. He was removed from Senate seat because he was felt to not be a "good fit". My point in that it two fold, that yes there is something corrupt going on with Community Management and also that Anxiety wasn't a blessed angel of purity before. He had negative posts for them to use as an "excuse".
2. Are you suggesting that I and the other Senators left start soem sort of rally and opposition against Drakull? I suppose we could...but I don't see how that would help. It would hurt more than help, in my opinion, because 1. Drakull is still seen as the middle man and has to forward on our community requests and 2. he would likely start ignoring us. Currently, the Developesr look to him as the main person to decompress what we all ask of him.
If Anxiety and Tux are able to get something done, then thats as it shoudl be. They are the ones who have the evidence, not me.
Originally posted by Iheamylap
When I was talking about attacking other Senators, I meant that directed at Anxiety, sorry about that. Your also mistaking most of my direction about supporting the community in a negative way as being directed at you, when I am directing it at Anxiety. So, sorry for the confusion.
You right, I am not here as Senator, which is one reason why I'm speaking my mind to you. Its obvious in both of our postings that our experiences as Senators/Ex Senators are influencing what we want to say. I don't see how I'm being passive aggressive here either, I think I've spoke my mind pretty clearly. Should I resort to name calling like you did to Vincent? Is that the kind of aggressive you expect?
I think its funny that you guys bring up my mentioning of allowing others to "rock the boat" while I maintain the public face as something I shouldn't admit or be public about. I don't see how its anything wrong, because like I said, I do not ask people to violate forum rules. I just ask them to be loud and vocal in ways that would otherwise get me IGNORED by the developers. I'm sorry if you guys don't see it, but there are many ways to get something heard and scene, and not all of them involve the *leader* standing up and screaming his guts out constantly. Especially when some folks are better at it than he is.
Maybe you should not lead then?
Edit: Added the quote
I resent the notion that "I" attacked any other Senators. That's simply false.
I guess given the success you've had with working with the Dev team to get the perfect Smuggling system implemented, maybe your passive yet aggressive behind the scenes approach works huh?
Iheamylap...you are NOT "here" as a Senator...this isn't the forum you seem to think it is. Here, we're ALL equals (minus Mods who are the Gods!).
I'm glad you're amused too - at least you have humor to keep you occupied...God knows there aren't enough players left to keep you amused in-game.
And as for not representing my community "in any positive way", I have tons of supporters who felt differently (emails, deleted posts and PMs to prove it). Maybe it's because I did have the balls to stand up and speak out, maybe it was the fact that i took EVERYONE into consideration, maybe it's because I felt I was there for the players, not myself or maybe it's because I was just lucky enough to have the most ignored and abused segment of the game as my aspect to represent...whatever it was, the fact that so many people have supported me and my "negative attitude" suggest you're incorrect in that assertion. The GCW is central to Star Wars - it was neutered in CU and completely abolished in NGE...it's been missing from this game for far too long.
Anyway...you go about your business, do things your way and hopefully you can get the change you seek. Have others do your dirty work so you maintain your appearance of being the diplomat (even though you admitted on a public forum you like to encourage others to "rock the boat").
You can pretend it was MY actions that lead to my removal...but the facts, no matter how much of a tightrope I may have walked, just don't support that allegation.
When I was talking about attacking other Senators, I meant that directed at Anxiety, sorry about that. Your also mistaking most of my direction about supporting the community in a negative way as being directed at you, when I am directing it at Anxiety. So, sorry for the confusion.
You right, I am not here as Senator, which is one reason why I'm speaking my mind to you. Its obvious in both of our postings that our experiences as Senators/Ex Senators are influencing what we want to say. I don't see how I'm being passive aggressive here either, I think I've spoke my mind pretty clearly. Should I resort to name calling like you did to Vincent? Is that the kind of aggressive you expect?
I think its funny that you guys bring up my mentioning of allowing others to "rock the boat" while I maintain the public face as something I shouldn't admit or be public about. I don't see how its anything wrong, because like I said, I do not ask people to violate forum rules. I just ask them to be loud and vocal in ways that would otherwise get me IGNORED by the developers. I'm sorry if you guys don't see it, but there are many ways to get something heard and scene, and not all of them involve the *leader* standing up and screaming his guts out constantly. Especially when some folks are better at it than he is.
"Rocking the boat" implies pushing the envelope. Admit it that you are just afraid to lose your position. If others have to be the mouthpiece that you are unwilling to be then you are unfit and unqualified to be in such a position...perhaps you should run for public office...you would fit right in with the majority of them.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Your accusing me of "attacking players"... Attacking players is against the rules of the forums... If I have this long standing history of attacking players as you claim... Why have I never been warned for it? Why have I never been suspended for it? Why have I never been banned for it? Because it seems to me as if the answer is quite simple... My posts didn't break the forum rules.
So as you try to sell people here on the fact that I did something wrong and posted something that was just oh so terrible... The facts simply do not support your claim.
And moving past TUX and myself... Just look at DrDista... He was also removed from the senate as even you acknowledge... Whats his supposed crime? I mean your trying to sell people on the fact that TUX broke the rules... And that I was supposedly attacking people and have this long history of breaking the forum rules... Well what was his "E-Crime" that got him kicked out.
I mean it seems as if your trying your hardest to deny the fact that whats going on is flat out bullsh*t and trying to reach for straws to justify it not only to yourself... But to anyone else who will listen to you.
Maintain public face? You mean a public face of being a leader who's afraid to lead? You mean the same public face that Vince has? Like I said... Go search the forums. There are more posts of players talking about Vince's failure to do his job on several issues than you can find of people hanging my jock.... And that includes all the spy fanboi's who were pissed off at me for bringing up one of the largest game imbalances since CH4 when commando was walking around in near god mode.
That's the public face you want? All I can say is that's pretty sad man.
And since you've all but said that I was guilty of rocking the boat... It seems funny to me that I had no problems communicating with the devs. Almost every time I sent a dev a PM... I almost always got a reply... Even if the reply wasn't something I wanted to hear. And the same goes with TUX... For someone who rocked the boat so much... He also never had problems talking to the devs. And if TUX wants to do so (because I wont put words in his mouth in this thread again)... He can go into some of the in depth details about how is input and influence through communicating with the devs impacted the pvp update in ways that extend past just the battlefield.
Rocking the boat doesn't mean you don't get heard... To think it does is pathetic.
I'm writing this to say goodbye to TUX, Anxiety and the rest of SWG. Since the removal of TUX, Flurry has been lacking life IMO. The pvp has started to die out and there is seriously nothing to do. I would just like to say thank you again TUX for all you did when i was wrongly suspended by a Head GM! You didn't give up and you kept helping. I have finally decided to end my SWG subs and move on. I've had enough of SWG's development team. They really need to fix their priorities. I've put up with too many updates that kill SWG and i'm seriously not waiting for this stupid 'zombie' update. Seems they would rather bring out some pathetic PvE content than a GCW update.
As the for the rest of the SWG senators (Other than Tux, Anx and badger) You seriously need to come out of Draakuul's @ss for some air. I have an Officer, smuggler, Commando, Medic, Jedi and a spy and I probably know the mechanics better than you all. Why don't i apply for the senate? Because i'm not a tool of SOE. Enough Said.
Good Luck to all those that still wish to play SWG.
Smokey Joe (Flurry)
SOE tool status:
untold [ ]
pending [ ]
TOLD [x]