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Wait wait wait. People are still playing this piece of trash? Honestly?
How in the hell have you guys not figured out that SOE doesn't care about you as people or even really as customers? They see you as nothing more than wallets and only want to get more money out of you. They have proven time and time again that they DO NOT care what the community at large wants. I stopped playing back at CU and yet I still see posts every three months or so about SOE doing something that is almost as stupid.
Stop playing SWG. Save your money for SWTOR if you really "need" a SW mmo to play. SWG is about as far from Star Wars icons as you can get at this point.
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
Good catch on that. Having such a self serving interest on subjects like this doesn't lead itself well to someone in a representative position. It also echoes of exactly what I was talking about earlier. The problem with lag isn't the fault of the company, but rather the players followed by the indiference to their community members.
I also don't understand the mindset Vincent uses about not asking for more world pvp, because it will create more lag. It is not his job to worry about the servers resources, but rather report on the issues players feel are important. It may not be his area of coverage, but the mindset is clear to see from the answers.
If the servers can't handle what the players are requesting, then that is for SOE to say. Killing an idea before it is even presented shows lack of vision and a closed mind to possibilities. You will never know what is or isn't possible if you never ask. It is not the representatives job to filter the requests based on their assumptions of how the hardware works and what is or isn't possible. That is the job of the devs.
Gather up the community feedback and pass it along to the developers. Filtering suggestions based on personal beliefs isn't part of the job. In fact that is something that shouldn't happen.
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
sorry to say this friend, but how ignorant of you if you fail to see that this is precisely why he is a swg senator.
senators are not appointed to point out the obvious broken systems in the game, nor voicing people's concerns. they are appointed to strengthen soe's decisions amongst the community, to serve as marketing tools and encourage fanboi activity at the official boards so that complaints are quickly and effectively silenced by them.
This, nothing else says that Star Wars is dead quite like this.
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
Yes Indeed I should, which is precicely why it is a part of the Gameplay Top5 that I am appointed to create on behalf of the players. More than 15% of the playerbase felt that this was a top priority issue for them.
I did not come to the conclusion that the equipment I have in my home will have any impact on Server Lag. You misread my statement (and I can see why it can be confusing). Read this for more information: [Guide] Understanding Serverlag, and you
The guide gives players a tool to eliminate 'lag' (or at least some of the sources) and correctly determine what kind of lag they have frustrations with. When you shave off all the Network Lag and Client Lag, what you have left is Server Lag. Lag was thrown around quite often as a misunderstood phrase. Some players where referring to a drop in FPS as Lag. At least now they have a place to report Server Lag and find tips on how to improve Client lag and network lag which can be equially frustrating.
Just a note to clarify:I agree with you completely, which the guide also clarifies. No amount of personal CPU power or memory size can reduce Server Lag. Server Lag is completely seperate from anyones personal PC equipment.
My personal opinions was that this was a non-issue, so when I do put this up on the Top5 as a Senator it goes against my personal opinions.
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
Yes Indeed I should, which is precicely why it is a part of the Gameplay Top5 that I am appointed to create on behalf of the players. More than 15% of the playerbase felt that this was a top priority issue for them.
I did not come to the conclusion that the equipment I have in my home will have any impact on Server Lag. You misread my statement (and I can see why it can be confusing). Read this for more information: [Guide] Understanding Serverlag, and you
The guide gives players a tool to eliminate 'lag' (or at least some of the sources) and correctly determine what kind of lag they have frustrations with. When you shave off all the Network Lag and Client Lag, what you have left is Server Lag. Lag was thrown around quite often as a misunderstood phrase. Some players where referring to a drop in FPS as Lag. At least now they have a place to report Server Lag and find tips on how to improve Client lag and network lag which can be equially frustrating.
Just a note to clarify:I agree with you completely, which the guide also clarifies. No amount of personal CPU power or memory size can reduce Server Lag. Server Lag is completely seperate from anyones personal PC equipment.
My personal opinions was that this was a non-issue, so when I do put this up on the Top5 as a Senator it goes against my personal opinions.
Yes, I may have got a little confused about what you wrote, but I still disagree with your conclusion of server lag.
Somewhat simplified described, the targeting system introduced with NGE requires much more input than the original system. Some of the data floating around goes to player clients via the network, other data just floats internally between servers and the database.
And the fact that data traffic grows exponentially depending of the number of objects (players or npc’s) you have that interact with each other, a slightly increase in data traffic or number of objects, causes a big increase of the system load, and in the end lag, when the system can’t keep up with the load. That’s why you get a slide show when players gather for pvp and more or less make open world pvp impossible.
SOE’s solution to this are dedicated pvp-areas like Restuss and the Battlegrounds and other instances, where they can put in increased capacity or run as instances at other machines, as an attempt to reduce the normal server load.
The problem is the speed introduced with the NGE, and since data traffic grows exponentially, there are no resources available today that can fix that. Peroid!
This is a design issue, and I’m neither the first nor the last one bringing it up. Asking for better or more resources are only a band aid, it does not resolve the problem or improve the performance to an acceptable level, not even compared to how it worked 5 years ago with crappy hardware compared to today’s standard.
It all comes back to the implementation of the NGE, and since SOE still refuses to discuss it, here you are.
Imo, you should not ask for better server resources, you should ask SOE to fix the problem.
Please. You can pretend they're working on the GCW Update on the official forums...but that sh!t doesn't fly here Missy.
Name ONE THING they've done on it so far - ONE THING!?! (and be specific...none of this "back-end" bull sh!t)
While you and so many others tried to defend zombies, fairies, flying **edit**ing Ewoks and the other UTTER GAY FILTH Dotanuki added to the game, some people had the balls to tell them those things sucked and would cost them in the long run. You claim "we can't stop them or change their mind", but that's not true...we could have! We (Senators) had a duty to tell them what the PLAYERS wanted...not just sit up there and kiss ass like you do. We've gone over a year without any meaningful content.
Vinny, you make one hell of a top 5 list...but douche bags like you do more harm than good to the game. You actually said that PvPing outside of Restuss or the Static bases should be reported as "griefing". LINK
If you were even half the man all your female toons are you might be OK...but you're just a sorry little suck up who thinks he's important.
Wow TUX, I actually had a high amount of respect for you until this post.
You know, we are all entitled to our opinions, but your attack on Vincent is pretty stupid. I'll ignore the *UTTER GAY FILTH* thing too. I thought the events were a little over did as well, but I wouldn't go so far as calling them gay filth.
Seriously, I think your taking stuff way to hard. Vincent is nto working against you or anyone else. The problem is, you misunderstand him completely. Vincent tries to work WITH the systemto get things done, not freaking out and yelling at peole, hoping that causes some commotion. Very rarely does freaking out against the developers get something done for th eplayers in SWG. ...if it did, we wouldn't have had the NGE.
I think you need to take a step back and a break before you make even more rediculous attacks against folks who do not deserve it.
Personally I think the senator program is part of the problem.
And Vincent...i think you mean 15% of the forum posters not playerbase...unless your are badger...he thinks there are more players now than ever.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
How ignorant of you, as a senator you should care.
And how did you come to the conclusion that the performance of your pc had any impact on server lag?
Server lag is, surprisingly, created by the … server. Server lag has very little to do with your pc.
I feel sorry for the SWG player base having you doing the reasoning with SOE about pvp and lag. With a mind set that "an up to date pc will not get any server lag”, I can see why there are no progresses on that matter.
Yes Indeed I should, which is precicely why it is a part of the Gameplay Top5 that I am appointed to create on behalf of the players. More than 15% of the playerbase felt that this was a top priority issue for them.
I did not come to the conclusion that the equipment I have in my home will have any impact on Server Lag. You misread my statement (and I can see why it can be confusing). Read this for more information: [Guide] Understanding Serverlag, and you
The guide gives players a tool to eliminate 'lag' (or at least some of the sources) and correctly determine what kind of lag they have frustrations with. When you shave off all the Network Lag and Client Lag, what you have left is Server Lag. Lag was thrown around quite often as a misunderstood phrase. Some players where referring to a drop in FPS as Lag. At least now they have a place to report Server Lag and find tips on how to improve Client lag and network lag which can be equially frustrating.
Just a note to clarify:I agree with you completely, which the guide also clarifies. No amount of personal CPU power or memory size can reduce Server Lag. Server Lag is completely seperate from anyones personal PC equipment.
My personal opinions was that this was a non-issue, so when I do put this up on the Top5 as a Senator it goes against my personal opinions.
Yes, I may have got a little confused about what you wrote, but I still disagree with your conclusion of server lag.
Somewhat simplified described, the targeting system introduced with NGE requires much more input than the original system. Some of the data floating around goes to player clients via the network, other data just floats internally between servers and the database.
And the fact that data traffic grows exponentially depending of the number of objects (players or npc’s) you have that interact with each other, a slightly increase in data traffic or number of objects, causes a big increase of the system load, and in the end lag, when the system can’t keep up with the load. That’s why you get a slide show when players gather for pvp and more or less make open world pvp impossible.
SOE’s solution to this are dedicated pvp-areas like Restuss and the Battlegrounds and other instances, where they can put in increased capacity or run as instances at other machines, as an attempt to reduce the normal server load.
The problem is the speed introduced with the NGE, and since data traffic grows exponentially, there are no resources available today that can fix that. Peroid!
This is a design issue, and I’m neither the first nor the last one bringing it up. Asking for better or more resources are only a band aid, it does not resolve the problem or improve the performance to an acceptable level, not even compared to how it worked 5 years ago with crappy hardware compared to today’s standard.
It all comes back to the implementation of the NGE, and since SOE still refuses to discuss it, here you are.
Imo, you should not ask for better server resources, you should ask SOE to fix the problem.
Thanks for your comment.
I agree, when it comes to Server Lag its a design issue. But there are in fact things that adding server resources to afflicted areas can do for players. It isn't only the problems introduced with NGE. Server structure hasn't really changed since then - aside from the players recieving dedicated PVP servers in addition to the allready existing servers.
For instance, Lok runs on a single sub-server. The entire planet runs on a single cluster and its not as large as the other clusters. It has less resources available. During the last april 1st event, 12 players brought the server to Medium Server Strain (as per in-game Area Activity Meter). 12 players, I was there to document it. 12 players to start straining the server.
On Chim we had an event for a deceased player some time ago too, more than 100 players gathered in memory of her. Area Activity wen't up to 'Extremely Heavy'. At some point the server Crashed, possibly when the 100 or so players started to participate in the PVE event that followed. Imagine +100 players trying to attack 200-300 droids. It wasn't pretty.
I've been to many events, and I've done PVP and PVE on multiple locations, there are some locations that has a higher strain than others. It often depends on the local population. 2 player cities on Chim was known for city pvp. One was on Lok and one was on Talus. Players started to crash when Lok PVP went on (which was mostly base defending). Same thing on Talus, players that wasn't even close to the event wen't LD, crashed or I've actually heard from a player he was ported to Dantooine Mining Outpost when he tried to enter the area lol.
In any case, the reasoning behind the request for more server resources is so that instead of one cluster hosting an entire planet, you split it up more and in that process you multiply the available resources for one area.
Rori has 2 clusters (basically: 1) Restuss and 2) anything outside Restuss). If you PVP in restuss, then you'll be pvp'ing on the server with the highest amount of server resources. No other cluster has as many resources available. We did a 100 vs 100 about 1½ year ago in Restuss to see how much it could take. It stopped accepting new players at 218 players. We had 40 second slideshows - it was as you can imagine quite horrible.
Now, lets imagine that those 200 players start to drag the battle otutside the cluster, all of a sudden theyre PVP'ing on the Rori subserver and Crafter Joe that has his house near Rori Rebel Outpost Spaceport and is currently crafting a weapon worth 5 million credits crashes along with his guildmates thats doing a minor roleplaying session with their banthadolls in one of their decorated bedrooms (well, not really but you get the idea).
Had the area been given additional resources for example 4 sub-servers per planet in addition to large city servers (Theed, Coronet and Mos Eisley all have their own cluster). They wouldn't have noticed that those 218 players were crashing the north-east rori sub-server along with Restuss because they wouldn't have crossed that line.
So the issue is two-fold. The current structure of Sub-servers doesn't really support any planetary PVP. And the problem which causes Lag during mass pvp (AOE attacks is a heavy contributor) is also another factor (as you mention too along with character rendering) - both are design issues - but one of them we can do something about without changing any of the others.
If each planet had 4 sectors then you could avoid PVP locations by simply moving to a city outside of that cluster and as a result the players participating in the City PVP session wouldn't be affecting the other players negatively either. There are of course other sulutions I'd rather see (for instance if a player could place a beacon that launches a PVP server-zone upon request it would open up for the possibility of random planetary PVP with supported server resources where they are needed the most).
The problem isn't the server hardware or lack of resources. Prior to the NGE, I played in battles that size that did not bring the game, let alone server, to a halting slideshow. The problem is the core of the nge and how soe artificially sped up the game to give the illusion of a fast paced action shooter. Every action now takes roughly 5 times the amount of resources to handle than it previously did. Your 12 person test was roughly equal to 60 players as a result of this.
The result is that you think players should not pvp in the game world as the game is designed to encourage, because the nge screwed up the code. The fix for this is to have players put into pvp play pens so it doesn't have a negative affect on the rest of the server. Honestly, soe screws up the core engine and the solution you feel best resolves this is to take away player freedoms by making the majority of the world a non-pvp area?
Does that really sound like advocating in the best interest of the players or working on behalf of soe to cover for their lack of willingness to correct a problem they created?
I'm sorry if my views and opinions disappoint you Iheamylap. I've never been good at pretending and I tend to speak up when nobody else will. Whether or not I have your respect isn't an issue to me - I wish I did, but I won't change who I am to please anyone or to gain respect mate. I tell it like it is without beating around the bush. It’s much more effective than hoping someone understands what we want than being vague or politically correct is. As the Smuggler Senator, you, of anyone, should understand how vagueness leads to disappointment…look at your own smuggling system for the example.
If you feel the Ewok Love Fest was fine, GREAT! I’m glad you liked it! I hope you like it next year too. But I too am entitled to my opinion, no matter how offended you get and no matter how much respect you lose for me over it. I feel it was UTTER GAY FILTH! Everything!!! The pink flying Ewok with a purple carebear heart, the garish NPC in the hut that was supposed to look like...Elvis?!, the "match making" bullsh!t with NPCs who appeared to favor same gender relationships, the heart shooting cross-bow, the fairy wings...it was ALL worthless FILTH in THIS MMO (IMO)! None of those things belonged in THIS game.
Freaking out and yelling at people? Um...are you talking about me? If that's how you viewed ANY of my posts, you're mistaken. If my use of CAPS confuses you and you see that as YELLING, you're wrong. I use CAPS for EMPHASIS...it's what I do, what I've always done. If you're referring to my "How you **edit** up STAR WARS is beyond me" quote, that's hardly "freaking out"...the previous Producer DID **edit**ed up STAR WARS!
SoE has failed to capitalize on the largest name in marketing history! Hasbro can sell millions of slight variations of Darth Maul and Jar Jar Binks toys for YEARS after the release of EP1, yet Sony can't make this MMO a success. Lucas provided everything to them…the settings, the locations, the central theme, the planets, the NPCs…all it took was slight creativity to expand and capitalize on STAR WARS…and they failed.
Even if they choose to go the way of the EU for content, “zombies” were a PATHETIC choice. Zombies…read that word and let it sink in…with ALL that is available to the Developers and Producer, they add in “zombies”. Not only do they plan to add them, but the “zombie” Update was originally going to be GU14 AND GU15…the GCW got ONE Update, “zombies” was assigned TWO!?!?! How the hell do you justify that???
If my attacks on Vincent upset you, I’m sorry. But I do feel his arrogance and focus are wrong and ARE damaging to the game I once loved. Vincent may not be working against “me”, but working “in the system” has gotten us nothing but failed updates for 2 years now. Hoth was a complete failure. Battle Fields are worse. Heroics were a failure in that they provide NO incentive to return to them after your 5-piece set. Mustafar, Kashyyyk…the list goes on and on of forgotten additions…they NEVER finish what they start. Rather than perfecting and expanding what they do have, they seem to want to add more and hope that quantity makes us forget about quality. At some point, we need to focus on what DOES and DID work and forget about what MAY work.
SWG completely lacks any repeatable content worth doing and everything has turned into a grind. Grinding BLOWS! “FUN” additions don’t HAVE to be time sinks. Not every goal needs to be measured in the length of time needed to complete it.
Think about a new player Iheamylap. They enter a game without any useful IN-GAME HELP system. Chat is limited to localized or personal chat only. Adding just a simple HELP Chat tab that is global would be a WONDERFUL help for new players. Will they add it? No. OK, skip the lack of a user friendly chat window…let’s look at the new players “grind”. I bet you 90% of all lost new characters log off on Naboo during Legacy Quest when they realize how freaking mind numbingly boring that section is.
Look at what it takes to PvP for a new player – at least 30 35’s, PUPs, foods, Medic buffs, Officer Stims, an ATK Entertainer, a 5-piece Heroic set (good luck running the Heroics now). Even once they have all that, the best most players can hope for these days is a 4v4 battle and HOPEFULLY less than an hour wait in que. Once they enter, they better PRAY they didn’t get grouped with a low CL player or a Crafter or an Entertainer…even if they DO get a good group, the Battle Fields are so overly exploited and exploitable that they’re ruined!
Letting SoE continue on this path of self destruction doesn’t serve anyone mate. The game is dying and the upcoming threats aren’t from AoC or other goofy dwarf riddled games…their new threats are from TRUE Sci-fi MMOs aimed directly at the market SoE has ignored. Even Lucas Arts sees the benefit in capturing the audience SoE can’t with their direct competitor - ToR.
Again, I’m sorry if I come off as angry or dick’ish…but you don’t have time to sugar coat things while SoE adds in worthless content like “zombies” if you really want SWG to live beyond ToR’s release…and I did.
Tux, how do you really expect your important point of view to be understood when you personally attack someone?
"Calling it like it is" doesn't entail going off about you thinking someone is a weird cross dressor, or making fun of the types of toons they wear, trying to drag it down to something personal.
I have always valued your frrank opinion in the past, but it was never like you've posted here, resorting to personal attacks that are on par with middle school cut downs. Maybe its just how you act on different forums, but its filth.
Even if you have a personal issue with someone, why take the step to rediculous personal attacks? Are you trying to defend your opinion or are you just trying to cut someone down? I can't see the difference.
I understand SOE did you wrong, but maybe you should 1. take a step back and get less emotional about it and 2. stop taking it out on those that are still "in the system" and trying to help, not hurt.
P.S. I didn't like the Ewok Festival, because I thought it was too goofy, but I think its insulting to folks who ARE gay to label it as "Utter Gay Filth", that was my point. Oh, and there were not same sex pairings in the Ewok Festival....even if all of the male toons wore pink and purple lol
Vincent, you avoid the issue and still suggest band aid solutions.
What if there's a crafter crafting something worth a lot of credits in one of the 4 clusters when gangs are pvp'ing, and that cluster dies?
Shall we use 16 clusters instead? Or 64?
Do you see where this leads you... to having private pvp instances and no open world pvp.
The problem is the "speed", the amount of data that has to be transmitted. Not lack of resourses.
If it was so easy as just add some pc's, SOE would have done that long agao. Hardware is cheap compared to developers.
Fact is, it's a mission impossible, and all due to the bad design of the fast pased combat. And you can spin this all the way to the moon if you want, fact is that the old servers did handled huge amount of players before the NGE, even though todays PC are much faster.
So again, do not ask for more resources, ask SOE to fix the problem. Or stick you head in the sand and continue to do damage control.
I remember days before the NGE.
Huge factional battles and base busting spanning across multiple planets.
Imperial and rebel leaders navigating 150+ troops from various guilds in one single private chat channel.
Combat was fast and frantic and you where continually on the move....always being moved on to a new battle by your faction commander.
Yes it was freakin laggy.
Yes it was damn fun.
and yes it felt like I was part of something much bigger than me....I felt like I was part of the imperial army....and loving every minute of it...
The players created that scenario and a lot of us wanted it to be built upon by SOE, where taking out a base or attacking a town and winning or loosing actually ment a change in the balance of power on a galactic level....not just a modest faction points increase to your toon.......
OH and........
ZOMGOMBIES!!!
"attacking a town and winning or loosing actually ment a change in the balance of power on a galactic level"
As a launch day vet of the game what was the change in the balance of power? What game mechanic was changed when one side won?
Its fine for you to defend your friend and fellow smuggler Iheamy... But for you to understand TUX's position... You would have had to have been there for some of the private conversations, and PM's that both TUX and myself have had/received from Vince. PM's and conversations where vince tried to patronize us and take a stance of superiority as if he should be above both of us in terms of "power" and presence within the senate. Something that I can fetch IRC logs and screenshots of PM's to prove.
But since you want to keep things impersonal and straight to the point... I'll be more than happy to point out how/why Vince's presence in the senate has caused the community more harm than good... And its quite easy to do... A simple look at the GP top 5 is all you need to do.
1. Factional Combat.
2. Lag
3. Space
4. Immersion.
5. General Expertise and Post-CL90 Profession Choises
That's the top5 as it was voted on by the players... And while its all fine and good that he let players vote for a top5... The first mistake was letting players vote for things that ALREADY HAVE DEDICATED SENATORS.
Factional combat... Seems to me we have GCW senators that are supposed to represent all aspects of factional combat... This includes PvP, PvE, an RP. And since we have a former GCW senator posting in this thread... I'm sure he can point out all of the smaller aspects that are also included under the GCW banner.
Space... This is for the pilot senator to represent. And the pilot senators top5 includes space pvp/gcw, content issues, chassis issues, etc... All being issues that effect portion of the SWG playerbase who partake in the space game.
Immersion... This is one of the aspects that there's a roleplay senator for. Immersion and feeling that your part of the story directly relates to roleplay. And if there are problems with immersion in the game... Then this should be something coming from the roleplay community.
Lag... While it greatly does impact gameplay... Its hardly a gameplay issue that's worthy of being on a top5... The issue with lag is mostly due to hardware constraints and the fact that they never beefed up the servers after making combat more intensive on the existing servers. And as Vince has said all through out this thread... Its the reason why players are encouraged to PvP in places like restuss which have dedicated resources allocated to them. So while lag is definitely an issue worthy of being brought up in the senate forums... Its an lolFAIL to put into a top5... Because its more of a hardware issue than a gameplay issue.
3/5 definitely don't belong in a general gameplay top5... And the 4th while it does effect gameplay is hardly a gameplay issue that's worth being placed into a top5 list.
So while your talking about working within the system and doing things by the book... What does it say when the majority of the gameplay top5 issue list is already being represented by dedicated senators? Talk about a waste of a top5. Think of all the other GP bugs and issues that could be represented but aren't being represented. This is the reason why when his predecessors formed their top5 lists... They didn't try to put their nose into another senators aspect... They formulated their top5 lists based off of general gameplay issues that had no dedicated senators that were already meant to be representing those issues.
So you want to talk about failure to work within the system... That's the first and largest failure right there.... A mostly wasted GP top5. And Vince being a person who believes that the top5 is the end all be all of the senates function... The failure to produce a top5 that doesn't tread into another senators domain and to try to represent issues that are already currently represented is a monumental failure of epic proportions.
So, your big point that Vincent has caused more "harm" than "good", boils down to the fact that you feel he, as Gameplay Senator, has things listed in his Top 5 that other senators could represent too?
Never minding that "Gameplay" is broad anyways. Also, never minding that its been mentioned clearly and understood that Senators can reach out of their own *area of expertise* to assist in others that they might be a part of or be able to assist in. There is very little in our game that isn't connected in some way and affects another.
So, besides theorizing on what should entail his Top 5 for a Senate position that is broad-spanning anyways, can you give any more points where Vincent has caused direct harm? If you are to be fair, you need to list where he's done *good* too, specifically, so we can compare. Really, if you are an expert on Vincent's behavior, I would like to see the evidense.
In my opinion, none of us as Senators are perfect. We are gamers attempting to fill a volunteer position, and some of us do a *better* job than others...I think its amusing though to seem to cast the entire blame on something on a single senator alone.
You guys might not be saying it directly, but it seems as if you are blaming SOE's decisions (well, Dot the former Producer more likely) on Holiday events and Zombies on Vincent. To me, it sounds more like its the developesr who need the blame. Sure, I havn't been there for you three's intimate conversations, but even here what it looks like to me is someone trying to find a more convenient scapegoat to vent your anger at, rather than trying to come to a better conclusion to how you can better the SWG game/community.
What you mean the changing of the guard in various cities?
Come on dude really, after fighting in the battle i just described in my last post do you think that the factional change of guards in various cities was a good incentive to take part...it needed fleshed out...it needed meat...it could have been so much more......
Planetary battles should have been updated and upgraded not replaced with Restus and Hoth
But anyway.....
I suppose it's way to late for me to want to get my toons transfered from Intrepid huh?
Incorrect, remember when after the CU hit and Spin grps were the owning ground for all your swg end game dreamz. Here comes a decision made by the SWG Devs: cut Grouping XP by half, rendering Spin grps obsolete,and dantooine to an almost least visited planet for days, until the Devs rethinked the matter hearing the uproar on the forums and ingame.
You asked a good question mate, but yet you seem rather elusive or afraid to answering it yourself. why?
Sorry for the grammar.
This is an epic thread and a good read also.
You play on Ahazi? We set up using mail and tells a mechanic that made any attack on any rebel base have the ability to get 50-100 rebels their to defend within 5-10 minutes. 200+ in 20 minutes. Imps had to do the same or lose. We had the most epic pvp battles that only eve can reproduce occasionally...3,4, sometimes 10 times a week.
At that point we didnt really need a game mechanic that gave us something from the devs for winning. It had taken on a life of it's own and winning itself was more important than anything else. Losing a base was emotional now. so was destroying one. No mechanic could beat emotion. All created by one rebel who got sick of the rebels on AHAzi sucking ass. One player. Just one nobody, became the best, most famous general of the rebels on ahazi ever...using mail and tells. The most realistic gcw I have or will ever experience. All the devs did was add pvp bases. All we needed was them to enhance what we had going, but as usual SOE destroyed it cause we werent doing what they wanted us to do. Probably saw it as a negative on their end.
If you knew how bad the rebs on ahazi were, seeing them take all the planets but one Imp stronghold was a beautiful thing to see. When they started out only holding rori, and that was only because of one guild there. Great times, great community...to bad they were working on the NGE and didnt notice. A shame.
Better than any dev created content any day of the week, and done with in-game mail and tells btw. the devs should use that system to base their new gcw update on. It was beyond doubt the best most realistic pvp in an MMO that I've played.
But that's SOE's problem. A game like SWG, especially pre-nge, has to include the community in development. It can't be used as a stepping stone for devs to try out their own creations to get up the ladder, or to save the day.
Who knows what or why they do the things they do though.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Um, you actually controlled the planet. You know, in an immersive, living in the StarWars universe way. Your bases dominated the landscape. Rebels trying to go to and from their own cities were blasted off their vehicles by the turrets you set up, until they could remove your presence by force. And when they tried, Imps from all over the galaxy would come and hand them their asses with great enthusiasm.
Also, faction points, ranks and rewards added a lot to the game. They changed the way you interacted with NPC's, gave you access to special gear, factional swag, and gave you the ability to call and command your own factional troops for starters.
As a "day after launch day" vet (launch day crashed the game remember?) you should know all of this.
You play on Ahazi? We set up using mail and tells a mechanic that made any attack on any rebel base have the ability to get 50-100 rebels their to defend within 5-10 minutes. 200+ in 20 minutes. Imps had to do the same or lose. We had the most epic pvp battles that only eve can reproduce occasionally...3,4, sometimes 10 times a week.
At that point we didnt really need a game mechanic that gave us something from the devs for winning. It had taken on a life of it's own and winning itself was more important than anything else. Losing a base was emotional now. so was destroying one. No mechanic could beat emotion. All created by one rebel who got sick of the rebels on AHAzi sucking ass. One player. Just one nobody, became the best, most famous general of the rebels on ahazi ever...using mail and tells. The most realistic gcw I have or will ever experience. All the devs did was add pvp bases. All we needed was them to enhance what we had going, but as usual SOE destroyed it cause we werent doing what they wanted us to do. Probably saw it as a negative on their end.
If you knew how bad the rebs on ahazi were, seeing them take all the planets but one Imp stronghold was a beautiful thing to see. When they started out only holding rori, and that was only because of one guild there. Great times, great community...to bad they were working on the NGE and didnt notice. A shame.
Better than any dev created content any day of the week, and done with in-game mail and tells btw. the devs should use that system to base their new gcw update on. It was beyond doubt the best most realistic pvp in an MMO that I've played.
But that's SOE's problem. A game like SWG, especially pre-nge, has to include the community in development. It can't be used as a stepping stone for devs to try out their own creations to get up the ladder, or to save the day.
Who knows what or why they do the things they do though.
Yup, and we coordinated it all on Ventrilo too, and had look-outs at shuttleports etc. to keep an eye on things. Usually a female toon that pretended to be ditzy and overly social lol. "Oh you're going to attack that big bad imperial base? Just you and your two friends? Oh really, there are 25 of you in total, and the attack starts in 10 minutes?" Lol, good times. And what made this possible? Simply the tools that the original team gave us to make up our own stories; and man, did we ever.
You play on Ahazi? We set up using mail and tells a mechanic that made any attack on any rebel base have the ability to get 50-100 rebels their to defend within 5-10 minutes. 200+ in 20 minutes. Imps had to do the same or lose. We had the most epic pvp battles that only eve can reproduce occasionally...3,4, sometimes 10 times a week.
At that point we didnt really need a game mechanic that gave us something from the devs for winning. It had taken on a life of it's own and winning itself was more important than anything else. Losing a base was emotional now. so was destroying one. No mechanic could beat emotion. All created by one rebel who got sick of the rebels on AHAzi sucking ass. One player. Just one nobody, became the best, most famous general of the rebels on ahazi ever...using mail and tells. The most realistic gcw I have or will ever experience. All the devs did was add pvp bases. All we needed was them to enhance what we had going, but as usual SOE destroyed it cause we werent doing what they wanted us to do. Probably saw it as a negative on their end.
If you knew how bad the rebs on ahazi were, seeing them take all the planets but one Imp stronghold was a beautiful thing to see. When they started out only holding rori, and that was only because of one guild there. Great times, great community...to bad they were working on the NGE and didnt notice. A shame.
Better than any dev created content any day of the week, and done with in-game mail and tells btw. the devs should use that system to base their new gcw update on. It was beyond doubt the best most realistic pvp in an MMO that I've played.
But that's SOE's problem. A game like SWG, especially pre-nge, has to include the community in development. It can't be used as a stepping stone for devs to try out their own creations to get up the ladder, or to save the day.
Who knows what or why they do the things they do though.
Yup, and we coordinated it all on Ventrilo too, and had look-outs at shuttleports etc. to keep an eye on things. Usually a female toon that pretended to be ditzy and overly social lol. "Oh you're going to attack that big bad imperial base? Just you and your two friends? Oh really, there are 25 of you in total, and the attack starts in 10 minutes?" Lol, good times. And what made this possible? Simply the tools that the original team gave us to make up our own stories; and man, did we ever.
But what we also did on ahazi, was made it accessable to the majority of players. People who never pvp'd or who were new and knew nothing, were all of a sudden taking part on a server wide war. Total week old newbs with a little medic or combat played just as big of part in it as anyone. they didnt care whether or not they died, they were part of the struggle. And it was made easy and the 'cool' thing to be apart of. It gave an almost sense of duty.
You;d be surprised how a new player getting asked by major guilds to defend or attack their enemies makes them feel a part of something, and almost guarentees they'll be playing for a while. Even if your only part was relaying the message. Players of swg were making end game and all the things that went into it..crafting, combat, entertaining after and before, ect.. accessable to everyone. They were giving a point to everything in game that was bigger than the individual. Just relaying a message that leads to a victory is far more heroic feeling than the devs telling you are through their content. A game that uses a similar system will grow naturally. Like eve does. Making players see their contribution is the hard part there. And players on ahazi were able to let people see the fruits of their labor in that system they created. Even if all they did was dance and listen to the after battle talk. It could have been alot greater than it was if SOE would have ran with something like that.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Um, you actually controlled the planet. You know, in an immersive, living in the StarWars universe way. Your bases dominated the landscape. Rebels trying to go to and from their own cities were blasted off their vehicles by the turrets you set up, until they could remove your presence by force. And when they tried, Imps from all over the galaxy would come and hand them their asses with great enthusiasm.
Also, faction points, ranks and rewards added a lot to the game. They changed the way you interacted with NPC's, gave you access to special gear, factional swag, and gave you the ability to call and command your own factional troops for starters.
As a "day after launch day" vet (launch day crashed the game remember?) you should know all of this.
and building, keeping and destroying player bases or killing factional npc forces meant npc troops spawned on the main planetary cities. these attacked overts and continiously scanned players for spices and sliced weapons. keep in mind that back in the day it was more than a nuisance to have coronet full of npcs of the opposing faction because, unlike nowadays, dieing back then meant a lot of decay, wounds and BF; and die you would unless you were buffed.
i remember back in the day soe would put up on their forums a weekly table of all the planets with their corresponding status, and faction control points.