I dont' think RMT is the cash cow Companies say it is. It can be if a game fills a void created by the sub model mmo market. But, to offer it where it's not needed or wanted is a mistake IMO. Im sure you can get a lot of people to try it regardless, but to spend money on it, it needs to fill a void that cant be found elsewhere.
Whether or not if their eula is shady or not only matters if people are spending money. Hell maybe SOE's lawyers are creating their eula's with job security in mind if ya know what Im saying? Dev's only create games that are dev created content ONLY for that reason. Why not let the lawyers in on it too. I kid of coarse.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Is it really true that you can be a pet trainer in Free Realms for free, but that an actual pet requires a visit to the RMT shop? I heard a rumour to that effect, but didn't know if even SOE could be that slimy. I hope this information is incorrect, but I just don't know what to expect anymore.
As a pet trainer in free realms, you can get a temporary pet that lasts something like 20 minutes. You can practice training that pet. Unless something has changed, you have to purchase a pet to play the "free" pet trainer class.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
The only thing I blame SOE for is actualy having created true MMORPG's, where most company's just deliver online action games. Or co-op multiplayer games with less of a world feel to them.
Oh and about : Regarding the Matrix: "What yours truly couldn’t help but wonder is – how on earth do you make such a powerful concept as Matrix online such a huge flop? Apparently I’m not alone. It’s not enough that Sony’s purchase led to serious backlashes, as the company apparently seriously slowed the game down.
Ehum the game was closing down almost before SOE bought it, if SOE didn't buy it and tried to refive it. Not seeing your point in this, sorry Arc. The question should be asked towardsthose truly responsible for creating Matrix Online and you know it was not SOE who made TMO, they only tried to save it, same with Vanguard. Blame those who build the game, not those who try to safe it, regardles how you might feel about those games.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted. It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
As far as Vanguard and MxO, both games were taken over by SOE and completely changed from what they were before, and in both cases the changes made were neither wanted by the playerbase, nor were changes that made the game better. MxO was pretty well trashed after SOE's combat revamp, and Vanguard went from a game that John Smedley claimed SOE picked up as publisher because they needed a 'hardcore' game, and once SOE owned it, they tried severely reduced the time it takes to max out a character and added several mechanics to make the game a casual style MMO.
SOE is a shining example of everything that is wrong with the MMORPG portion of the gaming industry. From horrendous customer service and interaction, to buggy unfinished, and in most cases, unfun games, SOE has every base covered.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
Thanks for the mature reply.
I gotta say I feel it was a mixed of both like you say and what I said. Keep in mind not all 1.2 mil. boxes sold where all dual boxers, allot left due to the things we could read on the forums, I will fully agree that it must have scared SOE seeing a only game known IP beating something with a IP of Star Wars.
Still wished SOE would have taken the CCP route, but then again we also know the engine would not survive that type of up-building of the game as we already knew the pre-cu engine was quite a mess, as we all remember 1 fix 3 things broken scenario, I'll also say that most of us who indeed where playing and enjoying knew something had to change, of course we never wanted the NGE as most of us just wanted them to fix the engine and not completely rework the game. There is also a part of me that can not blame SOE for wanting to have more subs towards a IP like Star Wars, of course there is also a part of me that does blame them for letting me taste what I felt was to be a true MMORPG that after pre-cu I never had the pleasure to get intoa MMORPG that I would call true MMORPG. I also know because I was there that SOE wanted to replace most of us who where enjoying the game with a larger player base, which is for anyone into business something logical, regardless how it turned out to backfire on them.
What I can not stand is people who on one hand say that SOE are liars, but when they say something in favour of people like Obee suddenly things that SOE developers say seems true where he mostly keeps saying that SOE is this or that.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
Thanks for the mature reply.
I gotta say I feel it was a mixed of both like you say and what I said. Keep in mind not all 1.2 mil. boxes sold where all dual boxers, allot left due to the things we could read on the forums, I will fully agree that it must have scared SOE seeing a only game known IP beating something with a IP of Star Wars.
Still wished SOE would have taken the CCP route, but then again we also know the engine would not survive that type of up-building of the game as we already knew the pre-cu engine was quite a mess, as we all remember 1 fix 3 things broken scenario, I'll also say that most of us who indeed where playing and enjoying knew something had to change, of course we never wanted the NGE as most of us just wanted them to fix the engine and not completely rework the game. There is also a part of me that can not blame SOE for wanting to have more subs towards a IP like Star Wars, of course there is also a part of me that does blame them for letting me taste what I felt was to be a true MMORPG that after pre-cu I never had the pleasure to get intoa MMORPG that I would call true MMORPG. I also know because I was there that SOE wanted to replace most of us who where enjoying the game with a larger player base, which is for anyone into business something logical, regardless how it turned out to backfire on them.
What I can not stand is people who on one hand say that SOE are liars, but when they say something in favour of people like Obee suddenly things that SOE developers say seems true where he mostly keeps saying that SOE is this or that.
Ya i can totally understand everything you say. But there is so much that makes no sense, everyone fills in the blanks themselves to make it work for them.
It's really hard to make sense of it all for me, everything we've been told still rings in the ear the way a lie does, even though you cant prove it. Know what I mean? There is still something about the whole mess my brain just rejects. Not just with the NGE, but pretty much every game that was in dev at the time. All were clearly redesigned, and had parts just ripped out of them. From VG to TR, to WAR. All with some drama blaming the old school designers that no NDA would ever allow to be discussed. The creator of swg said worldy MMo's are dead. Thats quite a statement. Europeans can make them though. Just the way it worked out i guess. To make something different ya go to europe..makes total sense. Appearently im crazy for questioning how exactly this all worked out the way it did. Im bitter for thinking Turbine redesigned lotro too im told lol. Sorry for involving you in my nonsense. probably not the discussion you have any interest in.
Basically my point was, every persons version of the nge and why is valid to me...cause honestly its all BS in my opinion. Deep down I think most don't buy it either. It's easier to just buy into the drama that causes 50-100 mil dollar games to fail. these are professional mmo makers.
Sorry again.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I avoid sony online games because you just can't trust them. To me they are unethical. Their console is an amazing piece of work and for me it far outshines what microsoft put out in the 360. Leaders in the console and other areas maybe, in mmo's not a chance. They couldn't lead a polar bear to ice.
SOE "IS" the leader and might continue along that path.
You can distort fact and the truth while knit picking,because i can find dirt and horrible development in EVERY developer.When you talk about the "leader"you are talking about pushing the envelope or pushing new ideas.
Matrix online??/ are you kidding me?i did not even look at that game,just making a game named after that movie is a fail,it had nothing to do with SOE making it a fail,it would have failed under ANY developer.
Quick little fact on newest SOE model FREE realms,no question they beat the rest of the big boys to punch ..AGAIN,this is why they are the leader,and that game is quite good for its age group and is doing well also.
Before SOE took the FF series under it's wing,of course with a price by committing FF only to the PS console,it was a franchise doomed for bankruptcy.They marketed it and brought life back into the series and it became arguably the most successful franchise in history of gaming,i believe the SIMS is up there also.
Vanguard?of course SOE had ties in VG they USUALLY stake a claim in all their publications,it helps both sides,witch IMO is good business,no sense leaving your customers out to dry on their own,better to help back them up.
A few young teenagers started coding Crash Bandicoot,it soon became reality and became a big hit.SOE made those guys millionaires by buying rights to the game.It had a lot of success.To show the comparison as to how far ahead they are from everyone else,who is the richest dev right now?Blizzard?ok name the last game developer they backed up?Heck they are afraid of their own shadow,so much so they were afraid to develop SC2 and still are.
SOE introduced 3D graphics to MMORPG's,yep breaking new ground and advancing gaming ,w/o them we may all be staring at WOW look alike ,bottom of the barrel graphics,suitable only for a NIN 64 system.
....talking about EQ.
I have said this before ,but i guess people refuse to believe it or just like bashing SOE with NO merit.RMT is NOT related to SOE,this is an epidemic amongst gamers ,and SOE is not to be held responsible in ANY form.All SOE has begun to do is cash in on what is happening in every single game.It has already proven to be IMPOSSIBLE to stop,so they feel rather than spend their hard earned money to fight it,they will keep the money where it belongs.
NOBODY of sane mind can tell me the RMT sweatshops deserve ANY of the money from a copyright game,not a single penny.The epidemic that goes on in other games is handled even worse than any SOE game,MOST games totally ignore it[ya that helps gaming alot ..lol].Or the flip side ,they LIE and tell you they are handling it,but then load up BS anti hack programs like Game Guard,two faced operations they are.
Anyone that actually was there ,like i was ,knows when and how RMT started to take shape in SOE's EQ2.It started by tons of complaints ,but it was too hard to control.Sooooooo SOE offered to make it a SAFER transaction keeping the loggers and hackers from taking over players subs,by offering the EXACT same service ,but through SOE.They also started by operating separate servers ,and guess what?the RMT servers had more players than the regular servers,so it was obvious ,the players wanted to cheat,this is NOT SOE's problem.It was real funny when SOE posted the results of the first two months of the RMT servers.It was 3 American states that lead the way for RMT transactions,does not give them Amerks a lot of respect,because most people relate RMT with Asians.
You know who lead the way with the 15 bucks a month? SOE ,again the big boys at Blizzard were afraid of their own shadow,they only introduced a fee,after SOE proved it was viable,they did consider WOW as a F2P,as was their model with their game service,games like Diablo.
The best is yet to come....name ONE developer that shows leadership in ANY facet of game development?There is ONLY one ,and i can name it>>Square Enix,this is only recently because they have advanced gaming to ALL platforms,umm Blizzard fails large in development.Square has also revamped their game engine to produce top notch cinematic cut scenes and meet today standards,they do not remain stagnant.BTW...SOE has recently updated EQ2 graphics and made the leading edge game look even better.Guess who helped make Square what it is today???yep SOE,so now you have the leader ,perhaps passing the torch to Square Enix the developer SOE helped to survive.
IMO SOE will rebound with a new project,they will once again introduce some new mechanic or idea that others will copy or follow.Here is another little something to CHOMP on,if SOE is such a poor developer,why did the most successful game on the planet choose SOE's EQ,to copy for it's game model..[WOW]?If SOE is so bad,why did so many passionate gamers enjoy playing SWG before NGE?you can't tell me that game was bad since players still whine several years later,that they want the old game back lol.Facts are facts SOE IS/was the leader and are still near the top !..Beware ONLY Sqaure Enix ,all others are one game knockouts trying to become a big guy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
SOE "IS" the leader and might continue along that path. You can distort fact and the truth while knit picking,because i can find dirt and horrible development in EVERY developer.When you talk about the "leader"you are talking about pushing the envelope or pushing new ideas. Matrix online??/ are you kidding me?i did not even look at that game,just making a game named after that movie is a fail,it had nothing to do with SOE making it a fail,it would have failed under ANY developer. Quick little fact on newest SOE model FREE realms,no question they beat the rest of the big boys to punch ..AGAIN,this is why they are the leader,and that game is quite good for its age group and is doing well also. Before SOE took the FF series under it's wing,of course with a price by committing FF only to the PS console,it was a franchise doomed for bankruptcy.They marketed it and brought life back into the series and it became arguably the most successful franchise in history of gaming,i believe the SIMS is up there also. Vanguard?of course SOE had ties in VG they USUALLY stake a claim in all their publications,it helps both sides,witch IMO is good business,no sense leaving your customers out to dry on their own,better to help back them up. A few young teenagers started coding Crash Bandicoot,it soon became reality and became a big hit.SOE made those guys millionaires by buying rights to the game.It had a lot of success.To show the comparison as to how far ahead they are from everyone else,who is the richest dev right now?Blizzard?ok name the last game developer they backed up?Heck they are afraid of their own shadow,so much so they were afraid to develop SC2 and still are. SOE introduced 3D graphics to MMORPG's,yep breaking new ground and advancing gaming ,w/o them we may all be staring at WOW look alike ,bottom of the barrel graphics,suitable only for a NIN 64 system. ....talking about EQ. I have said this before ,but i guess people refuse to believe it or just like bashing SOE with NO merit.RMT is NOT related to SOE,this is an epidemic amongst gamers ,and SOE is not to be held responsible in ANY form.All SOE has begun to do is cash in on what is happening in every single game.It has already proven to be IMPOSSIBLE to stop,so they feel rather than spend their hard earned money to fight it,they will keep the money where it belongs. NOBODY of sane mind can tell me the RMT sweatshops deserve ANY of the money from a copyright game,not a single penny.The epidemic that goes on in other games is handled even worse than any SOE game,MOST games totally ignore it[ya that helps gaming alot ..lol].Or the flip side ,they LIE and tell you they are handling it,but then load up BS anti hack programs like Game Guard,two faced operations they are. Anyone that actually was there ,like i was ,knows when and how RMT started to take shape in SOE's EQ2.It started by tons of complaints ,but it was too hard to control.Sooooooo SOE offered to make it a SAFER transaction keeping the loggers and hackers from taking over players subs,by offering the EXACT same service ,but through SOE.They also started by operating separate servers ,and guess what?the RMT servers had more players than the regular servers,so it was obvious ,the players wanted to cheat,this is NOT SOE's problem.It was real funny when SOE posted the results of the first two months of the RMT servers.It was 3 American states that lead the way for RMT transactions,does not give them Amerks a lot of respect,because most people relate RMT with Asians. You know who lead the way with the 15 bucks a month? SOE ,again the big boys at Blizzard were afraid of their own shadow,they only introduced a fee,after SOE proved it was viable,they did consider WOW as a F2P,as was their model with their game service,games like Diablo. The best is yet to come....name ONE developer that shows leadership in ANY facet of game development?There is ONLY one ,and i can name it>>Square Enix,this is only recently because they have advanced gaming to ALL platforms,umm Blizzard fails large in development.Square has also revamped their game engine to produce top notch cinematic cut scenes and meet today standards,they do not remain stagnant.BTW...SOE has recently updated EQ2 graphics and made the leading edge game look even better.Guess who helped make Square what it is today???yep SOE,so now you have the leader ,perhaps passing the torch to Square Enix the developer SOE helped to survive. IMO SOE will rebound with a new project,they will once again introduce some new mechanic or idea that others will copy or follow.Here is another little something to CHOMP on,if SOE is such a poor developer,why did the most successful game on the planet choose SOE's EQ,to copy for it's game model..[WOW]?If SOE is so bad,why did so many passionate gamers enjoy playing SWG before NGE?you can't tell me that game was bad since players still whine several years later,that they want the old game back lol.Facts are facts SOE IS/was the leader and are still near the top !..Beware ONLY Sqaure Enix ,all others are one game knockouts trying to become a big guy. Well thats one opinion I guess, and when I say one, I do mean one, quite lonely and i,m wondering whats it like working for SOE because that much wishful thinking has to be getting paid.
It seems Wizardry lives in some kind of wonderland that i dont know of..... either that or he is smoking some heavy s***
He has some points that could be argued. Probably better left to someone who knows the Industry better than me to get a decent debate. I tend to wonder into fantasy land myself.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
I remember the forums crashing just before the nge went live, I remember the mass protests in game the mass ban's that were dished if you were part of them I was there. I remember my guild saying its good byes the night before it went live, we quit in mass. As did a lot of players and guilds.
I remember $OE saying it was what we wanted and us laughing at them.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
I remember the forums crashing just before the nge went live, I remember the mass protests in game the mass ban's that were dished if you were part of them I was there. I remember my guild saying its good byes the night before it went live, we quit in mass. As did a lot of players and guilds.
I remember $OE saying it was what we wanted and us laughing at them.
mm i believe you,sometime the mere show of a new swg tread and you see bitter post ,im like is this over reacting then i go on other forum and nope there was really a big issue that happened on swg that made player so bitter i dont believe they ll ever forgive swg
SOE "IS" the leader and might continue along that path. You can distort fact and the truth while knit picking,because i can find dirt and horrible development in EVERY developer.When you talk about the "leader"you are talking about pushing the envelope or pushing new ideas.
What exactly is soe the market leader of? Lets see:
Everquest: Yes 10 years ago soe was a market leader. There wasn't really anyone else in the market except origins and turbine, but soe was the undisputed leader. That was 10 years ago.
SWG: Soe was still leading the market, but they turned the biggest most profitable IP the world into the pinnacle of what not to do with an mmo. There is no arguing that soe has totally screwed up this game and drove away the vast majority of its players. It should be the flagship product soe brags about, but instead it is the embarrassment no one wants to acknowledge.
EQOA: Is a dead game and a failed effort to break into the console market. It sits around mostly unsupported.
EQMac: Is a dead game and a failed effort to break into the console market. It sits around mostly unsupported.
EQ2: Rushed to market and suffers to this very day by poor choices made in its design. This was soes best effort that can't be blamed on anyone else. They started merging servers within the first year of operation. This is obvisouly their biggest game and it is no bigger or smaller than several other games on the market right now. Some from indepenant developers.
Planetside: Dead game long ago abandoned by soe. Ruined by soes own hand with features that drove players away.
The Matrix: Bought by soe so they could aquire the DC license. Yes the game was pretty much dead when soe bought it, but by most accounts they further destroyed what little potential TMO had left by removing features and revamping systems.
Vanguard: Another game that was dead when they bought it. It was stripped of whatever quality resources it had from the moment they purchased it and was put on life support and as the lead developer said "left to fend for itself". Another case where soe made changes that drove away many players.
Just curious if you see the trend of soe making changes to their games that players neither want nor ask for that results in losses.
Free realms. This is your big claim of soe breaking new ground. It seems to me that they are following a trend here that was laid out by several other companies who already dominate the tween free to play market and have millions of customers. Not accounts, but customers. For all of soes efforts and claims of 5 millions players, they can not even fill up 1 server of this game and it wouldn't take much more than 1,000 players to pack a server with how little game space is available to play in.
So tell me, where is soe in a leadership position? It isn't from a standpoint of customers. Their latest effort is a complete dud that no one is going to emulate based on its rate of success, or should I say failure.
If you strip away everquest from their stable of games, what you are left with is a company that has a subscriber threshhold that can be measured in the tens of thousands spread across a number of mmos that all hand on the edge of being discontined. This is a company that is surviving based on their one big success over 10 years ago. Without everquest soe as an mmo game maker is a total failure and would be out of the market. That is not the sign of leadership.
Let me ask it this way. Say SOE was a sole corporation you could invest your retirement fund in and you had a good chunk invested in 2004 when soe had over a million subscription between all their games. How do you think your investment would be doing in 2009? Do you think the "market leader" would have grown your investment or do you think it would have crashed and burned due to soe losing the majority of their subscribers over the last several years?
Have new ideas that fail doesn't make anyone a leader. Having the most mmo titles doesn't make someone the leader when most of them are ready to be shut down. Ushering in game systems that drive your customers away is not something the rest of the market is going to look at as a leadership role.
Interestingly enough, the scathing review of SOE came from none other than: Andrew "Tamat" Beegle
Editor-in-Chief
Allakhazam.com I think he formerly stood behind SOE, but didn't feel he could continue to do so when the RMT loot was introduced to Everquest. He seemed particularly irked by the way it was introduced: no discussion, no choice etc.. Smed also previously stated that he was against RMT in Everquest. Lo and behold, there it is.
Now that is interesting.
I wonder how many people are left who believe SOE never lies.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
Already been discussed in this topic, no need to repeat it again, geuss you missed that.
Already been discussed in this topic, no need to repeat it again, geuss you missed that.
You are really sticking to the story that beta testers and early swg players wanted less reading, more looting, first person shooter action and the majority of the classes removed from the game? Despite John Smedley admitting they did not listen to the players when designing the NGE, it is your theory that it was in direct response to what players were asking for? Despite all the former soe devs who spoke of the focus groups consisting of players who never players star wars, you still want to say it is the [past] players fault? Despite SOE/LA marketing and distributing a new game box called "Star Wars Galaxies - Starter Kit" and not a returning player offer.
I was around during the time you point to and that is nothing like what I saw on the forums. I saw loads of people who loved the game, but could not stand the condition it was in and the unfinished nature of the game. No one was asking for anything even remotely like the nge. It wasn't even a possible thought to the community that stayed or cancelled.
Your theory is just another sad attempt to shift blame from soe onto the players.
Just hearing someone try to say something got messed up, because soe was actually listening to the players is so funny. Can you even say that without smiling?
You really want to rewrite history and say the NGE was the largest win-back promotion in the history of mmos?
Already been discussed in this topic, no need to repeat it again, geuss you missed that.
You are really sticking to the story that beta testers and early swg players wanted less reading, more looting, first person shooter action and the majority of the classes removed from the game? Despite John Smedley admitting they did not listen to the players when designing the NGE, it is your theory that it was in direct response to what players were asking for? Despite all the former soe devs who spoke of the focus groups consisting of players who never players star wars, you still want to say it is the [past] players fault? Despite SOE/LA marketing and distributing a new game box called "Star Wars Galaxies - Starter Kit" and not a returning player offer.
I was around during the time you point to and that is nothing like what I saw on the forums. I saw loads of people who loved the game, but could not stand the condition it was in and the unfinished nature of the game. No one was asking for anything even remotely like the nge. It wasn't even a possible thought to the community that stayed or cancelled.
Your theory is just another sad attempt to shift blame from soe onto the players.
Just hearing someone try to say something got messed up, because soe was actually listening to the players is so funny. Can you even say that without smiling?
You really want to rewrite history and say the NGE was the largest win-back promotion in the history of mmos?
I think all rek was meaning was those players certainly didnt help. Maybe helped validate the NGE in the minds of the makers and devs who agreed to play along, so that little voice that kept telling them it was wrong could be ignored. I believe rek clearified his statement some too in another post. And like I said earlier...it's impossible to really know. Too much BS spun into halve truths and speculation and rumors. Misiformation is the word maybe. We know what we we're told basically.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
"SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game."-reklaw
I don't think he was trying to say those people didn't help, but rather they were the catalyst of the NGE. I've heard some theories that are hard to swallow, but trying to say the NGE was developed in response to player feedback (and former players at that) is about the most unbelievable thing I have ever heard about star wars galaxies.
It just flies in direct opposition to every fact that is available.
Comments
I dont' think RMT is the cash cow Companies say it is. It can be if a game fills a void created by the sub model mmo market. But, to offer it where it's not needed or wanted is a mistake IMO. Im sure you can get a lot of people to try it regardless, but to spend money on it, it needs to fill a void that cant be found elsewhere.
Whether or not if their eula is shady or not only matters if people are spending money. Hell maybe SOE's lawyers are creating their eula's with job security in mind if ya know what Im saying? Dev's only create games that are dev created content ONLY for that reason. Why not let the lawyers in on it too. I kid of coarse.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
"A scout is trustworthy". Therefore, they wouldn't be hanging out with SOE...
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
As a pet trainer in free realms, you can get a temporary pet that lasts something like 20 minutes. You can practice training that pet. Unless something has changed, you have to purchase a pet to play the "free" pet trainer class.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
The only thing I blame SOE for is actualy having created true MMORPG's, where most company's just deliver online action games. Or co-op multiplayer games with less of a world feel to them.
Oh and about : Regarding the Matrix: "What yours truly couldn’t help but wonder is – how on earth do you make such a powerful concept as Matrix online such a huge flop? Apparently I’m not alone. It’s not enough that Sony’s purchase led to serious backlashes, as the company apparently seriously slowed the game down.
Ehum the game was closing down almost before SOE bought it, if SOE didn't buy it and tried to refive it. Not seeing your point in this, sorry Arc. The question should be asked towardsthose truly responsible for creating Matrix Online and you know it was not SOE who made TMO, they only tried to save it, same with Vanguard. Blame those who build the game, not those who try to safe it, regardles how you might feel about those games.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted. It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
As far as Vanguard and MxO, both games were taken over by SOE and completely changed from what they were before, and in both cases the changes made were neither wanted by the playerbase, nor were changes that made the game better. MxO was pretty well trashed after SOE's combat revamp, and Vanguard went from a game that John Smedley claimed SOE picked up as publisher because they needed a 'hardcore' game, and once SOE owned it, they tried severely reduced the time it takes to max out a character and added several mechanics to make the game a casual style MMO.
SOE is a shining example of everything that is wrong with the MMORPG portion of the gaming industry. From horrendous customer service and interaction, to buggy unfinished, and in most cases, unfun games, SOE has every base covered.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
Thanks for the mature reply.
I gotta say I feel it was a mixed of both like you say and what I said. Keep in mind not all 1.2 mil. boxes sold where all dual boxers, allot left due to the things we could read on the forums, I will fully agree that it must have scared SOE seeing a only game known IP beating something with a IP of Star Wars.
Still wished SOE would have taken the CCP route, but then again we also know the engine would not survive that type of up-building of the game as we already knew the pre-cu engine was quite a mess, as we all remember 1 fix 3 things broken scenario, I'll also say that most of us who indeed where playing and enjoying knew something had to change, of course we never wanted the NGE as most of us just wanted them to fix the engine and not completely rework the game. There is also a part of me that can not blame SOE for wanting to have more subs towards a IP like Star Wars, of course there is also a part of me that does blame them for letting me taste what I felt was to be a true MMORPG that after pre-cu I never had the pleasure to get intoa MMORPG that I would call true MMORPG. I also know because I was there that SOE wanted to replace most of us who where enjoying the game with a larger player base, which is for anyone into business something logical, regardless how it turned out to backfire on them.
What I can not stand is people who on one hand say that SOE are liars, but when they say something in favour of people like Obee suddenly things that SOE developers say seems true where he mostly keeps saying that SOE is this or that.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
The developers, who have publicly discussed the NGE, who conceived and built the NGE have admitted that the NGE was intended to appeal to people who didn't play the game, at the expense of those that did. Everyone involved was aware that the existing customers would not be likely to continue playing the game after the NGE dropped, but the expectation was that they would be replaced by new players.
Yes and those people who did not play also left early in beta or at release, seems very hard for you to grasp this aint it.
The NGE was in no way an attempt to make the game into something the existing playerbase wanted.
Haha you really funny as you already know from all the other discussions we had about this is I never said that the player base who enjoyed hte game wanted the change, but geuss you really can not read. As you keep proven each time we meet and you misunderstand me each time it seems.
It was intended to replace the existing playerbase with a new, larger playerbase. The fact that they had discussed the obvious reaction of the existing playerbase makes the way the last expansion the game will ever see was marketed even more despicable than if the folks at SOE and LEC didn't intentionally attempt to defraud a significant portion of the SWG subscribers.
Yup indeed, similar to what have said ALWAYS, but please keep ignoring what I really mean cause you like to twist things.
Seriously, you're making a pathetically vain attempt to rewrite history in an attempt to defend the NGE.
Defend the NGE???????, YEAH right......... even more proof you can not read.
Next time simply ignore me as you do not WANT to understand what it is I say as you keep repeating most things I say just YOU use other words but they have the same meaning.
One more time: The NGE WAS NOT what we who enjoyed the game wanted, but we where not loud enough on the forums about it, those who left, didn't play, whined that everything was to hard, not much to do, where WE WHO ENJOYED THE GAME had plenty to do. WE who enjoyed the game often came on the forums and those WHO DID NOT play often told many of us to go and play the sims if we want a social game.
Once again I will tell you I hated the NGE when it was released, do I really need to spell it out. But then again ignorance seems to be your thing, so I leave you at that.
Rek, the NGE was supposedly targeting a section of the WOW playerbase that SOE/LA marketing thought was fragmenting due to recent and upcoming changes in WOW. That small section of WOW they were targeting was more people than SWG could even possibly have. If some of them were ex-swg players, it didnt matter. They had their new combat system(same as Tabla Rasa btw) combined with a tutorial and streamlined classes. Appearently they thought they couldnt lose. It wasnt an attempt to get back old players, the focus groups they talked about were a total sham. This is all been said by ex SOE employees. Now I dont blame you for not believing that BS, but it wasnt loud players on the forums from 2 years prior influencing anything.
The ONLY people that had any influence in that development outside the people making it were their peers in the Industry and media who all chanted a SW IP mmo with anything less than as million subs was an absolute failure. SW should have been the most successful MMO ever made due to IP alone. 300k subs isnt worth wasting on a SW IP. Gee, I wonder if LA would agree? Especially when the LA producer was a hardcore wow player. SOE could have done anything that involved making it more like WOW to get those million subs, and LA would have signed off. LA ceo had basically given them a green light or mandate for complete changes with complete freedom to the devs. Just the perfect storm...if only they had 200k or so people warning them.
10000 people on the beta and launch forums was NOT the people they were bowing to. Sorry. Although it's more beleivable than the info we know..i gotta say it's wrong IMO. Plenty of mispelled words for ya there.
Thanks for the mature reply.
I gotta say I feel it was a mixed of both like you say and what I said. Keep in mind not all 1.2 mil. boxes sold where all dual boxers, allot left due to the things we could read on the forums, I will fully agree that it must have scared SOE seeing a only game known IP beating something with a IP of Star Wars.
Still wished SOE would have taken the CCP route, but then again we also know the engine would not survive that type of up-building of the game as we already knew the pre-cu engine was quite a mess, as we all remember 1 fix 3 things broken scenario, I'll also say that most of us who indeed where playing and enjoying knew something had to change, of course we never wanted the NGE as most of us just wanted them to fix the engine and not completely rework the game. There is also a part of me that can not blame SOE for wanting to have more subs towards a IP like Star Wars, of course there is also a part of me that does blame them for letting me taste what I felt was to be a true MMORPG that after pre-cu I never had the pleasure to get intoa MMORPG that I would call true MMORPG. I also know because I was there that SOE wanted to replace most of us who where enjoying the game with a larger player base, which is for anyone into business something logical, regardless how it turned out to backfire on them.
What I can not stand is people who on one hand say that SOE are liars, but when they say something in favour of people like Obee suddenly things that SOE developers say seems true where he mostly keeps saying that SOE is this or that.
Ya i can totally understand everything you say. But there is so much that makes no sense, everyone fills in the blanks themselves to make it work for them.
It's really hard to make sense of it all for me, everything we've been told still rings in the ear the way a lie does, even though you cant prove it. Know what I mean? There is still something about the whole mess my brain just rejects. Not just with the NGE, but pretty much every game that was in dev at the time. All were clearly redesigned, and had parts just ripped out of them. From VG to TR, to WAR. All with some drama blaming the old school designers that no NDA would ever allow to be discussed. The creator of swg said worldy MMo's are dead. Thats quite a statement. Europeans can make them though. Just the way it worked out i guess. To make something different ya go to europe..makes total sense. Appearently im crazy for questioning how exactly this all worked out the way it did. Im bitter for thinking Turbine redesigned lotro too im told lol. Sorry for involving you in my nonsense. probably not the discussion you have any interest in.
Basically my point was, every persons version of the nge and why is valid to me...cause honestly its all BS in my opinion. Deep down I think most don't buy it either. It's easier to just buy into the drama that causes 50-100 mil dollar games to fail. these are professional mmo makers.
Sorry again.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I avoid sony online games because you just can't trust them. To me they are unethical. Their console is an amazing piece of work and for me it far outshines what microsoft put out in the 360. Leaders in the console and other areas maybe, in mmo's not a chance. They couldn't lead a polar bear to ice.
SOE "IS" the leader and might continue along that path.
You can distort fact and the truth while knit picking,because i can find dirt and horrible development in EVERY developer.When you talk about the "leader"you are talking about pushing the envelope or pushing new ideas.
Matrix online??/ are you kidding me?i did not even look at that game,just making a game named after that movie is a fail,it had nothing to do with SOE making it a fail,it would have failed under ANY developer.
Quick little fact on newest SOE model FREE realms,no question they beat the rest of the big boys to punch ..AGAIN,this is why they are the leader,and that game is quite good for its age group and is doing well also.
Before SOE took the FF series under it's wing,of course with a price by committing FF only to the PS console,it was a franchise doomed for bankruptcy.They marketed it and brought life back into the series and it became arguably the most successful franchise in history of gaming,i believe the SIMS is up there also.
Vanguard?of course SOE had ties in VG they USUALLY stake a claim in all their publications,it helps both sides,witch IMO is good business,no sense leaving your customers out to dry on their own,better to help back them up.
A few young teenagers started coding Crash Bandicoot,it soon became reality and became a big hit.SOE made those guys millionaires by buying rights to the game.It had a lot of success.To show the comparison as to how far ahead they are from everyone else,who is the richest dev right now?Blizzard?ok name the last game developer they backed up?Heck they are afraid of their own shadow,so much so they were afraid to develop SC2 and still are.
SOE introduced 3D graphics to MMORPG's,yep breaking new ground and advancing gaming ,w/o them we may all be staring at WOW look alike ,bottom of the barrel graphics,suitable only for a NIN 64 system.
....talking about EQ.
I have said this before ,but i guess people refuse to believe it or just like bashing SOE with NO merit.RMT is NOT related to SOE,this is an epidemic amongst gamers ,and SOE is not to be held responsible in ANY form.All SOE has begun to do is cash in on what is happening in every single game.It has already proven to be IMPOSSIBLE to stop,so they feel rather than spend their hard earned money to fight it,they will keep the money where it belongs.
NOBODY of sane mind can tell me the RMT sweatshops deserve ANY of the money from a copyright game,not a single penny.The epidemic that goes on in other games is handled even worse than any SOE game,MOST games totally ignore it[ya that helps gaming alot ..lol].Or the flip side ,they LIE and tell you they are handling it,but then load up BS anti hack programs like Game Guard,two faced operations they are.
Anyone that actually was there ,like i was ,knows when and how RMT started to take shape in SOE's EQ2.It started by tons of complaints ,but it was too hard to control.Sooooooo SOE offered to make it a SAFER transaction keeping the loggers and hackers from taking over players subs,by offering the EXACT same service ,but through SOE.They also started by operating separate servers ,and guess what?the RMT servers had more players than the regular servers,so it was obvious ,the players wanted to cheat,this is NOT SOE's problem.It was real funny when SOE posted the results of the first two months of the RMT servers.It was 3 American states that lead the way for RMT transactions,does not give them Amerks a lot of respect,because most people relate RMT with Asians.
You know who lead the way with the 15 bucks a month? SOE ,again the big boys at Blizzard were afraid of their own shadow,they only introduced a fee,after SOE proved it was viable,they did consider WOW as a F2P,as was their model with their game service,games like Diablo.
The best is yet to come....name ONE developer that shows leadership in ANY facet of game development?There is ONLY one ,and i can name it>>Square Enix,this is only recently because they have advanced gaming to ALL platforms,umm Blizzard fails large in development.Square has also revamped their game engine to produce top notch cinematic cut scenes and meet today standards,they do not remain stagnant.BTW...SOE has recently updated EQ2 graphics and made the leading edge game look even better.Guess who helped make Square what it is today???yep SOE,so now you have the leader ,perhaps passing the torch to Square Enix the developer SOE helped to survive.
IMO SOE will rebound with a new project,they will once again introduce some new mechanic or idea that others will copy or follow.Here is another little something to CHOMP on,if SOE is such a poor developer,why did the most successful game on the planet choose SOE's EQ,to copy for it's game model..[WOW]?If SOE is so bad,why did so many passionate gamers enjoy playing SWG before NGE?you can't tell me that game was bad since players still whine several years later,that they want the old game back lol.Facts are facts SOE IS/was the leader and are still near the top !..Beware ONLY Sqaure Enix ,all others are one game knockouts trying to become a big guy.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
… and Santa is coming during the summer.
It seems Wizardry lives in some kind of wonderland that i dont know of..... either that or he is smoking some heavy s***
He has some points that could be argued. Probably better left to someone who knows the Industry better than me to get a decent debate. I tend to wonder into fantasy land myself.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
I remember the forums crashing just before the nge went live, I remember the mass protests in game the mass ban's that were dished if you were part of them I was there. I remember my guild saying its good byes the night before it went live, we quit in mass. As did a lot of players and guilds.
I remember $OE saying it was what we wanted and us laughing at them.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
I remember the forums crashing just before the nge went live, I remember the mass protests in game the mass ban's that were dished if you were part of them I was there. I remember my guild saying its good byes the night before it went live, we quit in mass. As did a lot of players and guilds.
I remember $OE saying it was what we wanted and us laughing at them.
mm i believe you,sometime the mere show of a new swg tread and you see bitter post ,im like is this over reacting then i go on other forum and nope there was really a big issue that happened on swg that made player so bitter i dont believe they ll ever forgive swg
What exactly is soe the market leader of? Lets see:
Everquest: Yes 10 years ago soe was a market leader. There wasn't really anyone else in the market except origins and turbine, but soe was the undisputed leader. That was 10 years ago.
SWG: Soe was still leading the market, but they turned the biggest most profitable IP the world into the pinnacle of what not to do with an mmo. There is no arguing that soe has totally screwed up this game and drove away the vast majority of its players. It should be the flagship product soe brags about, but instead it is the embarrassment no one wants to acknowledge.
EQOA: Is a dead game and a failed effort to break into the console market. It sits around mostly unsupported.
EQMac: Is a dead game and a failed effort to break into the console market. It sits around mostly unsupported.
EQ2: Rushed to market and suffers to this very day by poor choices made in its design. This was soes best effort that can't be blamed on anyone else. They started merging servers within the first year of operation. This is obvisouly their biggest game and it is no bigger or smaller than several other games on the market right now. Some from indepenant developers.
Planetside: Dead game long ago abandoned by soe. Ruined by soes own hand with features that drove players away.
The Matrix: Bought by soe so they could aquire the DC license. Yes the game was pretty much dead when soe bought it, but by most accounts they further destroyed what little potential TMO had left by removing features and revamping systems.
Vanguard: Another game that was dead when they bought it. It was stripped of whatever quality resources it had from the moment they purchased it and was put on life support and as the lead developer said "left to fend for itself". Another case where soe made changes that drove away many players.
Just curious if you see the trend of soe making changes to their games that players neither want nor ask for that results in losses.
Free realms. This is your big claim of soe breaking new ground. It seems to me that they are following a trend here that was laid out by several other companies who already dominate the tween free to play market and have millions of customers. Not accounts, but customers. For all of soes efforts and claims of 5 millions players, they can not even fill up 1 server of this game and it wouldn't take much more than 1,000 players to pack a server with how little game space is available to play in.
So tell me, where is soe in a leadership position? It isn't from a standpoint of customers. Their latest effort is a complete dud that no one is going to emulate based on its rate of success, or should I say failure.
If you strip away everquest from their stable of games, what you are left with is a company that has a subscriber threshhold that can be measured in the tens of thousands spread across a number of mmos that all hand on the edge of being discontined. This is a company that is surviving based on their one big success over 10 years ago. Without everquest soe as an mmo game maker is a total failure and would be out of the market. That is not the sign of leadership.
Let me ask it this way. Say SOE was a sole corporation you could invest your retirement fund in and you had a good chunk invested in 2004 when soe had over a million subscription between all their games. How do you think your investment would be doing in 2009? Do you think the "market leader" would have grown your investment or do you think it would have crashed and burned due to soe losing the majority of their subscribers over the last several years?
Have new ideas that fail doesn't make anyone a leader. Having the most mmo titles doesn't make someone the leader when most of them are ready to be shut down. Ushering in game systems that drive your customers away is not something the rest of the market is going to look at as a leadership role.
Now that is interesting.
I wonder how many people are left who believe SOE never lies.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Hehe, geuss you never seen the forums back then or even remember them, else you would know and truly understand what it was that destroyed a large part of SWG and gave us the NGE. SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game.
Also with all the choices in the amount of games they give their playerbase SOE is definitly a market leader, this should be logical regardless how someone might feel about their games.
How can you say soe was trying to deliver the nge at the request of old players? You say they were listening to the forums and to what people said who quit during beta and shortly after the game released, but those people could not post anymore.
The only people who could post of the forums were active members. There was no way for soe to read what the former players wanted on the forums, because any of those posts were long long gone. Soes attempt to "work" with the players was the combat upgrade. That is what the players you are referencing were asking for, but back then it was called the combat rebalance. Once soe stopped ignoring the players so they could push out expansions and got around to the combat upgrade, even then they did a nge of sorts. Ask any of the beta testers of that how it was massively changed during the last few weeks to something that did not resemble what the players were told was coming.
Furthermore, no one I recall was asking for anything even remotely close to what the nge delivered, ever. There was no outcry by former players to make the game more like world of warcraft.
Even the focus groups soe used were made up of people who had never played star wars galaxies. I'm not talking about the "focus groups" of current players who were shown the game a few hours before it was released, but the groups they originally showed the concepts to while building the nge.
As for soe being the leader, they would actually have to lead in something to earn that distinction. Having a volume of games doesn't make them a market leader that others follow.
Already been discussed in this topic, no need to repeat it again, geuss you missed that.
You are really sticking to the story that beta testers and early swg players wanted less reading, more looting, first person shooter action and the majority of the classes removed from the game? Despite John Smedley admitting they did not listen to the players when designing the NGE, it is your theory that it was in direct response to what players were asking for? Despite all the former soe devs who spoke of the focus groups consisting of players who never players star wars, you still want to say it is the [past] players fault? Despite SOE/LA marketing and distributing a new game box called "Star Wars Galaxies - Starter Kit" and not a returning player offer.
I was around during the time you point to and that is nothing like what I saw on the forums. I saw loads of people who loved the game, but could not stand the condition it was in and the unfinished nature of the game. No one was asking for anything even remotely like the nge. It wasn't even a possible thought to the community that stayed or cancelled.
Your theory is just another sad attempt to shift blame from soe onto the players.
Just hearing someone try to say something got messed up, because soe was actually listening to the players is so funny. Can you even say that without smiling?
You really want to rewrite history and say the NGE was the largest win-back promotion in the history of mmos?
You are really sticking to the story that beta testers and early swg players wanted less reading, more looting, first person shooter action and the majority of the classes removed from the game? Despite John Smedley admitting they did not listen to the players when designing the NGE, it is your theory that it was in direct response to what players were asking for? Despite all the former soe devs who spoke of the focus groups consisting of players who never players star wars, you still want to say it is the [past] players fault? Despite SOE/LA marketing and distributing a new game box called "Star Wars Galaxies - Starter Kit" and not a returning player offer.
I was around during the time you point to and that is nothing like what I saw on the forums. I saw loads of people who loved the game, but could not stand the condition it was in and the unfinished nature of the game. No one was asking for anything even remotely like the nge. It wasn't even a possible thought to the community that stayed or cancelled.
Your theory is just another sad attempt to shift blame from soe onto the players.
Just hearing someone try to say something got messed up, because soe was actually listening to the players is so funny. Can you even say that without smiling?
You really want to rewrite history and say the NGE was the largest win-back promotion in the history of mmos?
I think all rek was meaning was those players certainly didnt help. Maybe helped validate the NGE in the minds of the makers and devs who agreed to play along, so that little voice that kept telling them it was wrong could be ignored. I believe rek clearified his statement some too in another post. And like I said earlier...it's impossible to really know. Too much BS spun into halve truths and speculation and rumors. Misiformation is the word maybe. We know what we we're told basically.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
ya and soe wont bother to do a publicity campagn about the new vertue of swg (if there is one)for one simple reason ,
they got other fish to fry for the moment
When Reklaw said
"SOE only tried to deliver what was asked for, and yes that backfired on them, but it was mainly due to what was written by those who either left as early in beta or slightly after release and where still very loud or even louder then us who where actually enjoying the game."-reklaw
I don't think he was trying to say those people didn't help, but rather they were the catalyst of the NGE. I've heard some theories that are hard to swallow, but trying to say the NGE was developed in response to player feedback (and former players at that) is about the most unbelievable thing I have ever heard about star wars galaxies.
It just flies in direct opposition to every fact that is available.