Alot of the ideas they have for making something into a game is only pretty on paper or existing number of fans. Some of the ideas should have stayed where they were and not set foot into mmo industry. Why do I say this? It is because some stuff are better off viewed from an audience perspective, which is also where their charm rest. The audience's imagination is invoked by the said movie, novel, etc. Turning something into a game becomes something to be experienced, and it works very differently than just take one idea and slap a system on it to call it a game. Lets take a small look at the example of the Matrix provided by the OP: The Matrix is a good movie, it is a movie that develop on the concept of how human view reality and the possibly that what is in front of our eyes may not be the truth. This concept alone made the Matrix a very good at invoking the imaginations of the audience and made it entertaining. It also featured fast paced action and unreal events that excite the viewers. However, when presented as games, for one reason or another it lost it's charm to some people. The Matrix as a game was not able to invoke imagination of audience as the movie was able to, and the original shock value of the concept of the Matrix is no longer there. This effectively turns it into a game based solely on action and combat, which we all know how much staying power that will have. There are plenty more different perspective about why the Matrix as a game did not take off even though the movie was widely popular. However, I'll stop here for sanity sake. As for SOE being leader in the industry, I am not certain how much validity I want to put into that statement. Maybe financially it is very possible, but in other perspective I would take it with a grain of salt.
did you only read the title,gees lot of different subject on this tread lol might be good to read all first to understand they way its going towards
Its a shame that SOE allowed themselves to be come the Joke of the Industry. But You can always count on them to pull some PR stunt so in their fragile little minds they think that they are Number 1.
Its a shame that SOE allowed themselves to be come the Joke of the Industry. But You can always count on them to pull some PR stunt so in their fragile little minds they think that they are Number 1.
But then again if we look at any other game-company we see them state similar "world leading" type of things aswell. So obviously it's some marketing thing that anyone with some common sense would simply ignore as we know most if not all company's do so.
Originally posted by Reklaw Originally posted by JestorRodo Its a shame that SOE allowed themselves to be come the Joke of the Industry. But You can always count on them to pull some PR stunt so in their fragile little minds they think that they are Number 1.
But then again if we look at any other game-company we see them state similar "world leading" type of things aswell. So obviously it's some marketing thing that anyone with some common sense would simply ignore as we know most if not all company's do so.
The reason we ignore theses Marketing claims of " world leading" , "Number 1" or any other self pronouncement by a game-company is that we do not have enough information about these claims and thus dismiss them.
But in SOE case, most of the Vets here have the information to contradict any recent claims of Business success.
Its a shame that SOE allowed themselves to be come the Joke of the Industry. But You can always count on them to pull some PR stunt so in their fragile little minds they think that they are Number 1.
But then again if we look at any other game-company we see them state similar "world leading" type of things aswell. So obviously it's some marketing thing that anyone with some common sense would simply ignore as we know most if not all company's do so.
The reason we ignore theses Marketing claims of " world leading" , "Number 1" or any other self pronouncement by a game-company is that we do not have enough information about these claims and thus dismiss them.
But in SOE case, most of the Vets here have the information to contradict any recent claims of Business success.
Sorry I am not going to pretend that other company's never been contradicted at their claims. So for me this is not a SOE exclusive thing. If you choose to ignore other company's that's up to you, but just do not claim as if SOE is the only company that makes claims that can be contradicted. Cause they are not. They are one of the many YES.
It's kinda sad to see what SOE has degenerated into. I began with Everquest in 1999. And now to see the flop that SOE produces now, to see what happens to an MMO when SOE touches it, it's depressing to see what has become of a company that was once so promising.
It's kinda sad to see what SOE has degenerated into. I began with Everquest in 1999. And now to see the flop that SOE produces now, to see what happens to an MMO when SOE touches it, it's depressing to see what has become of a company that was once so promising.
You know, I find it interesting that one reason I decided to invest in SWG was because of the Sony brand-name. I read the EULA (probably the first version) that said they may add things to the game, and that I may need to upgrade my system. Add things to the game would mean making it better right? Well, because it was Sony, I thought yes.
Then I started to see changes not only to the game but to the EULA as well. None of these seemed to be making the game any better for the gamer. They seemed to throw the current customers under the bus, and then try to find a way to make it okay.
Now when I see the Sony label, I get a completely different feeling. It's not one of confidence. Tbh, I hope that'll change someday. I still love my PS2, and even have a working Playstation as well. Those things were just great. They worked, had fun games, had CD and DVD players, Ps2 was backwards compatible. All great stuff. It's kinda sad to see where this company has gone lately imo.
It's kinda sad to see what SOE has degenerated into. I began with Everquest in 1999. And now to see the flop that SOE produces now, to see what happens to an MMO when SOE touches it, it's depressing to see what has become of a company that was once so promising.
You know, I find it interesting that one reason I decided to invest in SWG was because of the Sony brand-name. I read the EULA (probably the first version) that said they may add things to the game, and that I may need to upgrade my system. Add things to the game would mean making it better right? Well, because it was Sony, I thought yes.
Then I started to see changes not only to the game but to the EULA as well. None of these seemed to be making the game any better for the gamer. They seemed to throw the current customers under the bus, and then try to find a way to make it okay.
Now when I see the Sony label, I get a completely different feeling. It's not one of confidence. Tbh, I hope that'll change someday. I still love my PS2, and even have a working Playstation as well. Those things were just great. They worked, had fun games, had CD and DVD players, Ps2 was backwards compatible. All great stuff. It's kinda sad to see where this company has gone lately imo.
I decided to invest in SWG even if it was made by Joe Unknown and even a more true reason for me was I saw something no other game had delivered to me in the sense of it being a MMORPG and it gave me allot of fun playing it.
I am all for change within EULA's and do read them to a certain extend. But I also need to be honost and say I have absolute no trust in gamecompany's other then them developing a game that I might or might not enjoy. Same with almost any form of entertainment, aslong I am not investing in the game company by hugh donations or investment and aslong my investment is just a minor sub-fee, I personaly do not feel I have that much right. Maybe it's because of owning several businesses and only listen to those who work for me as outside source's might have nice idea's they do not know how we work excactly, same can be said for the gaming industry, where most about 90% of forum posters knows things because of internet as I have not seen any hard and solid mining data straight from the game. Like SOE releases data for their EQ fransise I wish they would do the same for SWG as that could explain so much more then what we might speculate about.
Must also say that the NGE was the only thing I blame SOE for as from within my own experiance I never had any other problems with SOE, even when playing the game when I read how horrible support was I needed support a few times and was helped very well and quickly, which doesn't mean other didn't have a horrible experiance, it only means I never have.
Overall I have zero issue with SOE calling themselfs Leaders in the Industry, I mean every gamecompany seems to be leader in something, besides I know better and thankfully have a choice in what type of entertainment I seek as it does not effect me in rl that much other then I could have a anoying experiance, but I can have that in any form of entertainment, as the only thing that is important to me is if a game is fun and if it is I don't care what company is behind it as I never had that many bad experianceses like I read many have with company's.
I also know that by now we who enjoyed the game where just a minority among gamers so the changes that didn't work for us, SOE felt and hoped they would work for those who left or didn't play.
I'd say do not put trust into a gamecompany but put trust into yourself by your own experiance, if a company does treath you as bad as you explain I would not spend that much time on such a company as such a company does not deserve to have talk about them as we know even negative post against company's are a form of viral marketing cause we all know it's better to be talked about then hear nothing. I also feel that if SOE or their games where not that much talked about SOE might actualy feel the hurt, but instead most keep SOE in the news either negative or postive it's still in the news and keeps it on people's attention.
I honostly can not name one game regardles it's genre that made changes to the game 100% of the players felt was the right move, either minor changes but most MMORPG have at one time made pretty hugh changes that changed allot for those who played. Have I seen another NGE type of change, Nope, and hope never to see such a change when people are enjoying their game ever again. But changes will always occure, some for the good, some for the bad.
SOE is to MMORPG's what Lucasarts is to PC gaming.
One, Lucasarts/games made some of the best games in PC gaming history. Both based on their licenses and not.
Battle of Britain/Secret Weapons of the luftwaffe were excellent flightsims, for their age, with high quality manuals that actually told you a bit about the war.
X-wing was an excellent tie-in and although it lacked the manual of SWoTL (it resembled the game in many ways especially the aircraft based expansions) it was a solid game.
Indianis Jones and the Fate of Atlantis was again a solid tie-in and Lucasarts quickly became known for its adventure games.
And then... something changed. Afterlife (or whatever it was called) was an odd game and bombed. Its existing franchises started to be produced by different companies, suddenly you had 3rd party logos in a lucasarts game. I know that for youngsters seeing 3 or more logos as the game launches is common but in those days, it didn't happen. Lucasarts game had the lucas logo and that was it.
It was greed, putting the development in 3rd parties allowed them to spread the risk. What risk? That every lucasarts game until then had sold by the bucket load?
But the rot had started to set in. They changed games to fit the hype and it didn't work. X-wing became multiplayer and failed to innovate its solo play, monkey island went 3d adventure making its controls horrid and unwanted.
Games that had been re-invented to attract more customers instead lost customers. And suddenly, Lucasarts that had been a big reliable developer turned into a publisher milking its own licenses for everything it was worth.
SOE has done much the same. They once ruled the roost with Everquest but lost their touch with Everquest 2 which was just not good enough. Since then WoW launched and they have been trying to WoWify every single game they had.
You think the NGE was bad? EQ2 got a speed boost, making every character run like a keystone cop.
SOE has been flaying around because they lack a clear vision. Just as Lucasarts forgot what made an adventure an adventure, SOE has forgot what makes an MMO a SPECIFIC MMO. It is pointless to try to grind them all into the same grey goo. If I want to play WoW, I will play WoW, not EQ2 re-wowed.
SOE right now seems to be struggling, they got a lot of properties but not a single one of them is making them a lot of money.
They got a LOT of experience in house I am sure, but they haven't got the money to develop a next generation MMO that could encorperate everything they learned and be developed for as long as an MMO needs to be developed.
I am not talking here about a WoW killer. WoW did not kill EQ1/2 or SWG, it attracted players who never even heard of these games. But there are plenty of available players out there who could be attracted by a game that offers something different.
Something else from grinding levels, from raiding endless dungeons for a bit of gear so you can raid the next dungeon.
SOE has the experience in house to know this, they might not have the money, but either they get it somewhere or become a shovelware company that pumps out those cheap game consoles grandparents by because they think that is what the kids want.
A lot of these points fit with my recollection of things too. I think the main idea--that these companies have lost touch somehow--is on the money (pardon the pun).
One thing about SOE having in-house experience though, I think they've lost a lot of talent over the years as they've made some decisions that even their own staff weren't too happy with.
I think some of the best devs and community reps parted company with SOE over the SWG debacles. Others asked to be transferred to other projects. Also, I heard that some of the senior staff on the Agency recently bailed on SOE. I also recently saw the notice regarding layoffs. It seems like they're losing staff as well as players over there.
I wonder if any of these things will lead them to really reflect on how they've been doing business over the past number of years. They haven't paid much attention to warning signs up to this point though, imo, so I'd be surprised if they change now.
Comments
did you only read the title,gees lot of different subject on this tread lol might be good to read all first to understand they way its going towards
Its a shame that SOE allowed themselves to be come the Joke of the Industry. But You can always count on them to pull some PR stunt so in their fragile little minds they think that they are Number 1.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
But then again if we look at any other game-company we see them state similar "world leading" type of things aswell. So obviously it's some marketing thing that anyone with some common sense would simply ignore as we know most if not all company's do so.
The reason we ignore theses Marketing claims of " world leading" , "Number 1" or any other self pronouncement by a game-company is that we do not have enough information about these claims and thus dismiss them.
But in SOE case, most of the Vets here have the information to contradict any recent claims of Business success.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
The reason we ignore theses Marketing claims of " world leading" , "Number 1" or any other self pronouncement by a game-company is that we do not have enough information about these claims and thus dismiss them.
But in SOE case, most of the Vets here have the information to contradict any recent claims of Business success.
Sorry I am not going to pretend that other company's never been contradicted at their claims. So for me this is not a SOE exclusive thing. If you choose to ignore other company's that's up to you, but just do not claim as if SOE is the only company that makes claims that can be contradicted. Cause they are not. They are one of the many YES.
It's kinda sad to see what SOE has degenerated into. I began with Everquest in 1999. And now to see the flop that SOE produces now, to see what happens to an MMO when SOE touches it, it's depressing to see what has become of a company that was once so promising.
You know, I find it interesting that one reason I decided to invest in SWG was because of the Sony brand-name. I read the EULA (probably the first version) that said they may add things to the game, and that I may need to upgrade my system. Add things to the game would mean making it better right? Well, because it was Sony, I thought yes.
Then I started to see changes not only to the game but to the EULA as well. None of these seemed to be making the game any better for the gamer. They seemed to throw the current customers under the bus, and then try to find a way to make it okay.
Now when I see the Sony label, I get a completely different feeling. It's not one of confidence. Tbh, I hope that'll change someday. I still love my PS2, and even have a working Playstation as well. Those things were just great. They worked, had fun games, had CD and DVD players, Ps2 was backwards compatible. All great stuff. It's kinda sad to see where this company has gone lately imo.
You know, I find it interesting that one reason I decided to invest in SWG was because of the Sony brand-name. I read the EULA (probably the first version) that said they may add things to the game, and that I may need to upgrade my system. Add things to the game would mean making it better right? Well, because it was Sony, I thought yes.
Then I started to see changes not only to the game but to the EULA as well. None of these seemed to be making the game any better for the gamer. They seemed to throw the current customers under the bus, and then try to find a way to make it okay.
Now when I see the Sony label, I get a completely different feeling. It's not one of confidence. Tbh, I hope that'll change someday. I still love my PS2, and even have a working Playstation as well. Those things were just great. They worked, had fun games, had CD and DVD players, Ps2 was backwards compatible. All great stuff. It's kinda sad to see where this company has gone lately imo.
I decided to invest in SWG even if it was made by Joe Unknown and even a more true reason for me was I saw something no other game had delivered to me in the sense of it being a MMORPG and it gave me allot of fun playing it.
I am all for change within EULA's and do read them to a certain extend. But I also need to be honost and say I have absolute no trust in gamecompany's other then them developing a game that I might or might not enjoy. Same with almost any form of entertainment, aslong I am not investing in the game company by hugh donations or investment and aslong my investment is just a minor sub-fee, I personaly do not feel I have that much right. Maybe it's because of owning several businesses and only listen to those who work for me as outside source's might have nice idea's they do not know how we work excactly, same can be said for the gaming industry, where most about 90% of forum posters knows things because of internet as I have not seen any hard and solid mining data straight from the game. Like SOE releases data for their EQ fransise I wish they would do the same for SWG as that could explain so much more then what we might speculate about.
Must also say that the NGE was the only thing I blame SOE for as from within my own experiance I never had any other problems with SOE, even when playing the game when I read how horrible support was I needed support a few times and was helped very well and quickly, which doesn't mean other didn't have a horrible experiance, it only means I never have.
Overall I have zero issue with SOE calling themselfs Leaders in the Industry, I mean every gamecompany seems to be leader in something, besides I know better and thankfully have a choice in what type of entertainment I seek as it does not effect me in rl that much other then I could have a anoying experiance, but I can have that in any form of entertainment, as the only thing that is important to me is if a game is fun and if it is I don't care what company is behind it as I never had that many bad experianceses like I read many have with company's.
I also know that by now we who enjoyed the game where just a minority among gamers so the changes that didn't work for us, SOE felt and hoped they would work for those who left or didn't play.
I'd say do not put trust into a gamecompany but put trust into yourself by your own experiance, if a company does treath you as bad as you explain I would not spend that much time on such a company as such a company does not deserve to have talk about them as we know even negative post against company's are a form of viral marketing cause we all know it's better to be talked about then hear nothing. I also feel that if SOE or their games where not that much talked about SOE might actualy feel the hurt, but instead most keep SOE in the news either negative or postive it's still in the news and keeps it on people's attention.
I honostly can not name one game regardles it's genre that made changes to the game 100% of the players felt was the right move, either minor changes but most MMORPG have at one time made pretty hugh changes that changed allot for those who played. Have I seen another NGE type of change, Nope, and hope never to see such a change when people are enjoying their game ever again. But changes will always occure, some for the good, some for the bad.
SOE is to MMORPG's what Lucasarts is to PC gaming.
One, Lucasarts/games made some of the best games in PC gaming history. Both based on their licenses and not.
Battle of Britain/Secret Weapons of the luftwaffe were excellent flightsims, for their age, with high quality manuals that actually told you a bit about the war.
X-wing was an excellent tie-in and although it lacked the manual of SWoTL (it resembled the game in many ways especially the aircraft based expansions) it was a solid game.
Indianis Jones and the Fate of Atlantis was again a solid tie-in and Lucasarts quickly became known for its adventure games.
And then... something changed. Afterlife (or whatever it was called) was an odd game and bombed. Its existing franchises started to be produced by different companies, suddenly you had 3rd party logos in a lucasarts game. I know that for youngsters seeing 3 or more logos as the game launches is common but in those days, it didn't happen. Lucasarts game had the lucas logo and that was it.
It was greed, putting the development in 3rd parties allowed them to spread the risk. What risk? That every lucasarts game until then had sold by the bucket load?
But the rot had started to set in. They changed games to fit the hype and it didn't work. X-wing became multiplayer and failed to innovate its solo play, monkey island went 3d adventure making its controls horrid and unwanted.
Games that had been re-invented to attract more customers instead lost customers. And suddenly, Lucasarts that had been a big reliable developer turned into a publisher milking its own licenses for everything it was worth.
SOE has done much the same. They once ruled the roost with Everquest but lost their touch with Everquest 2 which was just not good enough. Since then WoW launched and they have been trying to WoWify every single game they had.
You think the NGE was bad? EQ2 got a speed boost, making every character run like a keystone cop.
SOE has been flaying around because they lack a clear vision. Just as Lucasarts forgot what made an adventure an adventure, SOE has forgot what makes an MMO a SPECIFIC MMO. It is pointless to try to grind them all into the same grey goo. If I want to play WoW, I will play WoW, not EQ2 re-wowed.
SOE right now seems to be struggling, they got a lot of properties but not a single one of them is making them a lot of money.
They got a LOT of experience in house I am sure, but they haven't got the money to develop a next generation MMO that could encorperate everything they learned and be developed for as long as an MMO needs to be developed.
I am not talking here about a WoW killer. WoW did not kill EQ1/2 or SWG, it attracted players who never even heard of these games. But there are plenty of available players out there who could be attracted by a game that offers something different.
Something else from grinding levels, from raiding endless dungeons for a bit of gear so you can raid the next dungeon.
SOE has the experience in house to know this, they might not have the money, but either they get it somewhere or become a shovelware company that pumps out those cheap game consoles grandparents by because they think that is what the kids want.
A lot of these points fit with my recollection of things too. I think the main idea--that these companies have lost touch somehow--is on the money (pardon the pun).
One thing about SOE having in-house experience though, I think they've lost a lot of talent over the years as they've made some decisions that even their own staff weren't too happy with.
I think some of the best devs and community reps parted company with SOE over the SWG debacles. Others asked to be transferred to other projects. Also, I heard that some of the senior staff on the Agency recently bailed on SOE. I also recently saw the notice regarding layoffs. It seems like they're losing staff as well as players over there.
I wonder if any of these things will lead them to really reflect on how they've been doing business over the past number of years. They haven't paid much attention to warning signs up to this point though, imo, so I'd be surprised if they change now.