PVE needs better, smarter mobs- and less predictability. Less random loot ('scroll of neat thing making .06% drop') so players don't have to farm a spot for hours unless they wanna.
/completely agree. I am hoping to any gods that may exist that this type of PvE stays in Mortal Online:
That is EXACTLY what fighting PvE monsters should be like.
I do not believe in "open-pvp". The risk vs reward for PKers is far out of balance. In reality it is perma death with no chance to come back into the game! In an mmo it is a red name, loosing an item maybe and a death more on a stats site.... RvR and FvF works and i can not imagine any other system that would do. There is nothing wrong with PvP in general, but it needs rules that an mmo MUST set!
here here
Open PVP mean "hunt he nubie and greif himm until he unsubs.
CoH had great mob AI. Some of the new Lotro ranged mobs are a real pain. AI is getting better but casual players don't want a challenge they just want the reward. Virtually no MMO pays attention to anything casual players do not want, so its eye candy and easy mode firmly on. When was the last time in any MMO release, or review you heard them talk about mob AI? Yet programming and computing power have come on immensely, marketing for casual mentality means will still have mobs that act like a sitting duck.
RvR pvp is only way to go. CoH had great mob AI. Some of the new Lotro ranged mobs are a real pain. AI is getting better but casual players don't want a challenge they just want the reward. Virtually no MMO pays attention to anything casual players do not want, so its eye candy and easy mode firmly on. When was the last time in any MMO release, or review you heard them talk about mob AI? Yet programming and computing power have come on immensely, marketing for casual mentality means will still have mobs that act like a sitting duck.
Thats only to be expected in a market economy. In general, one gets more of what one rewards. Mass numbers of people keep flocking to such games, which results in them being profitable...Which results in more such games... It cycles back on itself. Only a niche market exists for difficult games. That niche seems to grow a bit smaller every year. Given the ever climbing costs of making these games, I can't see it changing any time soon.
I love what people say here: all PKers are cowards and incompetent pvpers who attack you when you are in disadvantage and they have numbers with them.
Next you bring the Eve Online example to show that even in full loot, FFA pvp game 10 % of players population stays in pvp zone and 90 % doesn't leave safe zone almost at all.
10 % of population terrorizes 90 % of population ? How hard is to organize yourself and develop pack behaviour ?
Don't forget that most of you claim that almost all of competent pvers are on the carebears side...
Can you people be more hypocritical ?
Stop being delusional and in fact I would say that MMO community asked for it. You support MMO games with "character progression" which most of you understand as level progression where is margin space for player skill.
That's perfect environment for your stereotypical pvp community where you can kill and grief people without risk. Levels, huge gear dependency, lack of FPS mechanics vertical not horizontal character development don't go well with open pvp. What decides about combat outcome are level, gear and stats and far behind them is your personal skill.
I love what people say here: all PKers are cowards and incompetent pvpers who attack you when you are in disadvantage and they have numbers with them.
Next you bring the Eve Online example to show that even in full loot, FFA pvp game 10 % of players population stays in pvp zone and 90 % doesn't leave safe zone almost at all. 10 % of population terrorizes 90 % of population ? How hard is to organize yourself and develop pack behaviour ?
Don't forget that most of you claim that almost all of competent pvers are on the carebears side...
Can you people be more hypocritical ?
Stop being delusional and in fact I would say that MMO community asked for it. You support MMO games with "character progression" which most of you understand as level progression where is margin space for player skill.
That's perfect environment for your stereotypical pvp community where you can kill and grief people without risk. Levels, huge gear dependency, lack of FPS mechanics vertical not horizontal character development don't go well with open pvp. What decides about combat outcome are level, gear and stats and far behind them is your personal skill.
Well, as with many such, you seem to have a problem keeping details in mind. Most gankers/griefers *are* cowards, and need to have either many levels and/or the advantage of numbers for their attacks. But such bozos hardly make up all PvP types. Or even a good sized fraction. The statistics in Eve are closer to 50-60% stay in high sec. I doubt you've ever played Eve very much.
Some players do hunt gate campers/pirates. But because the game is so spread out, such operations can be difficult. As for the rest of your diatribe, WoW has dealt with that problem on its PvE realms. There is a server side flag that has to be up for you to even be attacked.
"Carebears" don't need PK'ers, and if there aren't PK'ers, then they also don't need anti-PK'ers.
This was proven in Trammel UO. The carebears stayed on the Trammel server, leaving nothing but PK'ers/anti PK'ers for Felucca. Suddenly PK'ing wasn't fun anymore without the gank factor the "CB's" provided.
But as anyone can see with PVE-centric games doing well and most PvP games hobbling along, "Care Bears" are just fine by themselves, and make devs good money.
In a game that offers FFA PvP the holy trinity of carebear, PK, Anti-PK is just as important as the PvE trinity Of tank, dps and healer.
That is pretty much what the author is stating. She is not saying all games need PK or that all PvE are carebears. The author was just using terms everyone knows like a real gamer would do as well.
Without non-PvP focused players a FFA PvP game is just a FPS. It is not a MMO with a thriving community. A FFA PvP game requires all three play styles to be able to sustain itself.
Nobody cares about your individual anti-PvP agenda. Stay on topic and discuss what the Author was actually talking about.
In PvE the Tank provides agro control and damage soaking, The Healer provides the healing needed to keep everyone alive and the DPS provides the damage output to kill the monsters.
That's why that is called the Holy Trinity.
In PvP the Anti-PK provides some very limited protection to the Carebear allowing them to play the game. The Carebear provides the Anti-PK with a reason to exist. What does the PK provide?
What does the PK do for the Carebear? Sure if there were no PKs the Anti-PK would have no reason to exist. But in the PvE trinity all 3 provide something the other two need.
(Too Long Did Not Read Version)
Carbears get less NOTHING from PKs.
With specific reference to EVE, virtually everything that all players use is player created. PvP combat generates the vast majority of the demand for the products of PvE activity - PvE consumption is negligible in comparison. Without PvP, the economy would be a minute fraction of its current size. So the "carebears" get the PKers money. In turn, "carebears" occasionally suffer some loss - and why should they not? The EVE Market is PvP just as much as a space battle is. Indeed, some market operations have dwarfed the largest space battles in terms of value lost.
It is not a perfect system, but it does at least show that there is a possible answer to your question. When there are lots of huge battles occuring in EVE, it is good for the miners, as the demand for the ores they mine rises, so they make more money. But in turn this means that the miners of Alliance 'A' are a valuable and vulnerable target for the PvPers of Alliance 'B'.
Comments
/completely agree. I am hoping to any gods that may exist that this type of PvE stays in Mortal Online:
That is EXACTLY what fighting PvE monsters should be like.
here here
Open PVP mean "hunt he nubie and greif himm until he unsubs.
No thanks.
RvR pvp is only way to go.
CoH had great mob AI. Some of the new Lotro ranged mobs are a real pain. AI is getting better but casual players don't want a challenge they just want the reward. Virtually no MMO pays attention to anything casual players do not want, so its eye candy and easy mode firmly on. When was the last time in any MMO release, or review you heard them talk about mob AI? Yet programming and computing power have come on immensely, marketing for casual mentality means will still have mobs that act like a sitting duck.
Thats only to be expected in a market economy. In general, one gets more of what one rewards. Mass numbers of people keep flocking to such games, which results in them being profitable...Which results in more such games... It cycles back on itself. Only a niche market exists for difficult games. That niche seems to grow a bit smaller every year. Given the ever climbing costs of making these games, I can't see it changing any time soon.
I love what people say here: all PKers are cowards and incompetent pvpers who attack you when you are in disadvantage and they have numbers with them.
Next you bring the Eve Online example to show that even in full loot, FFA pvp game 10 % of players population stays in pvp zone and 90 % doesn't leave safe zone almost at all.
10 % of population terrorizes 90 % of population ? How hard is to organize yourself and develop pack behaviour ?
Don't forget that most of you claim that almost all of competent pvers are on the carebears side...
Can you people be more hypocritical ?
Stop being delusional and in fact I would say that MMO community asked for it. You support MMO games with "character progression" which most of you understand as level progression where is margin space for player skill.
That's perfect environment for your stereotypical pvp community where you can kill and grief people without risk. Levels, huge gear dependency, lack of FPS mechanics vertical not horizontal character development don't go well with open pvp. What decides about combat outcome are level, gear and stats and far behind them is your personal skill.
Well, as with many such, you seem to have a problem keeping details in mind. Most gankers/griefers *are* cowards, and need to have either many levels and/or the advantage of numbers for their attacks. But such bozos hardly make up all PvP types. Or even a good sized fraction. The statistics in Eve are closer to 50-60% stay in high sec. I doubt you've ever played Eve very much.
Some players do hunt gate campers/pirates. But because the game is so spread out, such operations can be difficult. As for the rest of your diatribe, WoW has dealt with that problem on its PvE realms. There is a server side flag that has to be up for you to even be attacked.
Don't even slightly agree.
"Carebears" don't need PK'ers, and if there aren't PK'ers, then they also don't need anti-PK'ers.
This was proven in Trammel UO. The carebears stayed on the Trammel server, leaving nothing but PK'ers/anti PK'ers for Felucca. Suddenly PK'ing wasn't fun anymore without the gank factor the "CB's" provided.
But as anyone can see with PVE-centric games doing well and most PvP games hobbling along, "Care Bears" are just fine by themselves, and make devs good money.
With specific reference to EVE, virtually everything that all players use is player created. PvP combat generates the vast majority of the demand for the products of PvE activity - PvE consumption is negligible in comparison. Without PvP, the economy would be a minute fraction of its current size. So the "carebears" get the PKers money. In turn, "carebears" occasionally suffer some loss - and why should they not? The EVE Market is PvP just as much as a space battle is. Indeed, some market operations have dwarfed the largest space battles in terms of value lost.
It is not a perfect system, but it does at least show that there is a possible answer to your question. When there are lots of huge battles occuring in EVE, it is good for the miners, as the demand for the ores they mine rises, so they make more money. But in turn this means that the miners of Alliance 'A' are a valuable and vulnerable target for the PvPers of Alliance 'B'.
Give me liberty or give me lasers