Just curious, but perhaps the first step would be to call Mythic and try to resolve differences with them before going to such extremes?
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
The company can bite you back occasionally if the interpretation of the features was within reason. Say you insisted you couldn't do something yet you could, just only to a extent. As long as they can argue its part true they win. In which case your hit with the false charge fee lol.
I'll pull up an example of a falsity on the page:
"Your ship will retain a Star Trek "feel," but it will also represent your style. What’s more, anyone can create their own species in Star Trek Online, meaning you can tell your own story about how you came to be in the galaxy. Leave your mark on the Star Trek universe!"
You cannot create your own species, at all. This is a feature that was removed to allow Cryptic to nickel and dime players.
Wow, I didn't realize that. Did they actually take out the custom alien race feature? That more or less kills the character creation aspect, if it's true and accurate.
The custom race feature is still in, however they removed certain pieces from the creator so that you'd have to buy the races made out of those pieces.
Also be wary of taking financial advice from some random off the internet. If Cryptic decides to dispute your chargeback, the credit company will likely side with them (they are, after all, a multi million dollar business), and that might lead to a black mark being put on your credit report, lowering your credit rating. Trust me, you will care a lot more about a black mark on your credit report than Cryptic will.
Wrong. Credit card companies ALWAYS (or almost always) side with the card holder. Why? Because the card company is itself liable for fraud. This is why people don't have to pay the $10,000 charged to their cards when they are stolen for example.
By law, credit card companies are liable for all fraudulent or mistaken charges on their cards, they can't put a "black mark" on anyone's credit history for using these mechanisms to prevent fraud or charges to a stolen credit card. Just think about how stupid that statement is.
I once found an odd charge on my credit card by an online company that was created that very month. I called the card company and they asked me why I was disputing the charge, I said I don't recognize the company and never paid that amount to anything and they immediately reversed the charge and sent me a new card just in case.
This is the main reason why credit cards are the most secure form of online payment.
Earlier in the thread you accused people of spreading misinformation about a video game, and now you're doing the very same about a much more serious issue.
But, you can't do chargebacks on a company, that'd cost them money and might *gasp* force them to take account for their crappy game design and poor business decisions!
Just curious, but perhaps the first step would be to call Mythic and try to resolve differences with them before going to such extremes?
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either.
Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either. Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
Actually, it seems more like you, and others, are trying to justify performing fraudulent chargebacks based on nothing more than some buyers remorse.
If anything is morally wrong in this thread, it is that.
Have to agree with your statement, these are fraudulent chargebacks unless the game doesn't ship at all (or is totally unplayable) and while STO might have some issues, it is not in either of those states.
Buyers remorse is not a good reason to demand your money back, and I suspect in the near future the credit card companies will put a halt to the practice with regards to virtual content like video games.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's one thing to say, "I wanted to be able to make the klingons empire bigger", when you CAN play as a klingon, and try to use that as a charge back because of their little advertisement.
If Cryptic said, you can fly in ships in space, just like in the star trek movies, and there was only ground missions, I could see something there. But basically, you are bored with the game, don't enjoy it, and want your money back. It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
Buyers remorse is not a good reason to demand your money back, and I suspect in the near future the credit card companies will put a halt to the practice with regards to virtual content like video games.
We can only hope.
Imho, it is blatant abuse of a system designed to protect customers who have legitimately been wronged, when none of the cases seen in this thread fall under that category.
It's one thing to say, "I wanted to be able to make the klingons empire bigger", when you CAN play as a klingon, and try to use that as a charge back because of their little advertisement. If Cryptic said, you can fly in ships in space, just like in the star trek movies, and there was only ground missions, I could see something there. But basically, you are bored with the game, don't enjoy it, and want your money back. It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
Try to take back alcohol, half eaten food, in fact, try to not to pay for a restaurant meal after you've eaten it, they'll take a dim view.
The biggest reason games have this policy is because at least for PC games, people used to copy them and then return, but still play the game.
One could do the same with an MMO, load up, start playing,and go back to the store and get a refund which isn't right.
By the way, many returns have to be done in a certain period of time, over at Best Buy many things have to go back within 10-14 days, and some things like printers they won't take back if they've been used.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
Actually, it seems more like you, and others, are trying to justify performing fraudulent chargebacks based on nothing more than some buyers remorse.
If anything is morally wrong in this thread, it is that.
As far as i understand it, it's not a fraudulant chargeback.
Bottom line is this:
If a customer feels that they recieved a different product to that which they bought, it's their right to issue a chargeback. The chargeback is there to ensure that fraud doesn't happen - you can't sell things under false pretences.
It may not be a reasonable claim, but that's still a long way from fraud unless you're doing this for to personally gain out of it in some way, or cause harm to the 'merchant'. Fraud requires intent to do one of those things.
Perhaps if someone had posted "AHAHAHA I JUST SCREWED CRYPTIC COS THEY GOT FINED WHEN I DID A CHARGEBACK, EVERYONE DO IT!!!!" -- then you might be ok to bandy around terms like fraud.
Edit:
This is hardly a case of buyer's remorse either. Do people find these terms on a buzzword website and throw them around at will? Buyer's remorse is a VERY specific thing which does not encompass "any time someone feels regret at having bought something."
It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
Which is the whole reason keys were made for games. Too much of that shit kept going down.
By the way, can I return my box of ramen? It doesn't taste at all like beef.
Well there are reviews, there are gameplay videos, there are trials, there is game rental (for some games)..... Games are for consumption, and I suspect if we actually want a games industry this is not something that is going to be to anyone benefit in the long run.
STO is made by Cryptic, forearmed is forewarned as Goro might say, think before you buy and be prepared to live with the consequence of your descision.
Which is the whole reason keys were made for games. Too much of that shit kept going down. By the way, can I return my box of ramen? It doesn't taste at all like beef.
To be honest, that's extremely likely you could. I've complained about food being completely off from the menu etc after I've eaten some of it, and still got my money back.
Which is the whole reason keys were made for games. Too much of that shit kept going down. By the way, can I return my box of ramen? It doesn't taste at all like beef.
To be honest, that's extremely likely you could. I've complained about food being completely off from the menu etc after I've eaten some of it, and still got my money back.
So, yes.
Seems like just a matter of taste to me though....meh
Well there are reviews, there are gameplay videos, there are trials, there is game rental (for some games)..... Games are for consumption, and I suspect if we actually want a games industry this is not something that is going to be to anyone benefit in the long run. STO is made by Cryptic, forearmed is forewarned as Goro might say, think before you buy and be prepared to live with the consequence of your descision.
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
I agree on the key thing and not accepting returns.
But D2D didn't even want to refund a pre-order, making the same claim about a key (beta key in this case). This while the beta key could be obtained freely everywhere else. Heck, I even had 2 other beta keys from other pre-orders that I canceled because the D2D deal was better (read: looked better, IMO the game just sucks)
Why not just call up the CC company and say "I changed my mind and now I want my money back and the only good reason I can come up with is WAAAHHHHHhhhhhhhh!!!"?
Comments
So to sum up, false accusation as Cryptic has this particular "advertised feature" in game.
Should have titled the thread "How to throw a temper tantrum and issue fraudulent chargebacks"
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
Its even easier if you're part of the EU.
True that. Heh
Point out where there's a Klingon territory war in game.
I'll pull up an example of a falsity on the page:
"Your ship will retain a Star Trek "feel," but it will also represent your style. What’s more, anyone can create their own species in Star Trek Online, meaning you can tell your own story about how you came to be in the galaxy. Leave your mark on the Star Trek universe!"
You cannot create your own species, at all. This is a feature that was removed to allow Cryptic to nickel and dime players.
Wow, I didn't realize that. Did they actually take out the custom alien race feature? That more or less kills the character creation aspect, if it's true and accurate.
The custom race feature is still in, however they removed certain pieces from the creator so that you'd have to buy the races made out of those pieces.
Wrong. Credit card companies ALWAYS (or almost always) side with the card holder. Why? Because the card company is itself liable for fraud. This is why people don't have to pay the $10,000 charged to their cards when they are stolen for example.
By law, credit card companies are liable for all fraudulent or mistaken charges on their cards, they can't put a "black mark" on anyone's credit history for using these mechanisms to prevent fraud or charges to a stolen credit card. Just think about how stupid that statement is.
I once found an odd charge on my credit card by an online company that was created that very month. I called the card company and they asked me why I was disputing the charge, I said I don't recognize the company and never paid that amount to anything and they immediately reversed the charge and sent me a new card just in case.
This is the main reason why credit cards are the most secure form of online payment.
Earlier in the thread you accused people of spreading misinformation about a video game, and now you're doing the very same about a much more serious issue.
But, you can't do chargebacks on a company, that'd cost them money and might *gasp* force them to take account for their crappy game design and poor business decisions!
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either.
Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
Actually, it seems more like you, and others, are trying to justify performing fraudulent chargebacks based on nothing more than some buyers remorse.
If anything is morally wrong in this thread, it is that.
Actually, it seems more like you, and others, are trying to justify performing fraudulent chargebacks based on nothing more than some buyers remorse.
If anything is morally wrong in this thread, it is that.
Have to agree with your statement, these are fraudulent chargebacks unless the game doesn't ship at all (or is totally unplayable) and while STO might have some issues, it is not in either of those states.
Buyers remorse is not a good reason to demand your money back, and I suspect in the near future the credit card companies will put a halt to the practice with regards to virtual content like video games.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's one thing to say, "I wanted to be able to make the klingons empire bigger", when you CAN play as a klingon, and try to use that as a charge back because of their little advertisement.
If Cryptic said, you can fly in ships in space, just like in the star trek movies, and there was only ground missions, I could see something there. But basically, you are bored with the game, don't enjoy it, and want your money back. It's funny how you can return 99% of anything else if you don't want it days after buying it, but not computer games.
We can only hope.
Imho, it is blatant abuse of a system designed to protect customers who have legitimately been wronged, when none of the cases seen in this thread fall under that category.
Try to take back alcohol, half eaten food, in fact, try to not to pay for a restaurant meal after you've eaten it, they'll take a dim view.
The biggest reason games have this policy is because at least for PC games, people used to copy them and then return, but still play the game.
One could do the same with an MMO, load up, start playing,and go back to the store and get a refund which isn't right.
By the way, many returns have to be done in a certain period of time, over at Best Buy many things have to go back within 10-14 days, and some things like printers they won't take back if they've been used.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
Actually, it seems more like you, and others, are trying to justify performing fraudulent chargebacks based on nothing more than some buyers remorse.
If anything is morally wrong in this thread, it is that.
As far as i understand it, it's not a fraudulant chargeback.
Bottom line is this:
If a customer feels that they recieved a different product to that which they bought, it's their right to issue a chargeback. The chargeback is there to ensure that fraud doesn't happen - you can't sell things under false pretences.
It may not be a reasonable claim, but that's still a long way from fraud unless you're doing this for to personally gain out of it in some way, or cause harm to the 'merchant'. Fraud requires intent to do one of those things.
Perhaps if someone had posted "AHAHAHA I JUST SCREWED CRYPTIC COS THEY GOT FINED WHEN I DID A CHARGEBACK, EVERYONE DO IT!!!!" -- then you might be ok to bandy around terms like fraud.
Edit:
This is hardly a case of buyer's remorse either. Do people find these terms on a buzzword website and throw them around at will? Buyer's remorse is a VERY specific thing which does not encompass "any time someone feels regret at having bought something."
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
Which is the whole reason keys were made for games. Too much of that shit kept going down.
By the way, can I return my box of ramen? It doesn't taste at all like beef.
Well there are reviews, there are gameplay videos, there are trials, there is game rental (for some games)..... Games are for consumption, and I suspect if we actually want a games industry this is not something that is going to be to anyone benefit in the long run.
STO is made by Cryptic, forearmed is forewarned as Goro might say, think before you buy and be prepared to live with the consequence of your descision.
To be honest, that's extremely likely you could. I've complained about food being completely off from the menu etc after I've eaten some of it, and still got my money back.
So, yes.
To be honest, that's extremely likely you could. I've complained about food being completely off from the menu etc after I've eaten some of it, and still got my money back.
So, yes.
Seems like just a matter of taste to me though....meh
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
That is due to product keys being linked to the box they are sold with.
If they allowed people to return software in the digital age we live in nowadays, then everyone would just buy the box, take the cd key, return the software and download a digital client.
Leaving the developer high and dry, and the vendor having to ship used, now incomplete products back to the distributor.
I agree on the key thing and not accepting returns.
But D2D didn't even want to refund a pre-order, making the same claim about a key (beta key in this case). This while the beta key could be obtained freely everywhere else. Heck, I even had 2 other beta keys from other pre-orders that I canceled because the D2D deal was better (read: looked better, IMO the game just sucks)
Why not just call up the CC company and say "I changed my mind and now I want my money back and the only good reason I can come up with is WAAAHHHHHhhhhhhhh!!!"?
That about sums up the reason doesn't it?