As far as i understand it, it's not a fraudulant chargeback. Bottom line is this: If a customer feels that they recieved a different product to that which they bought, it's their right to issue a chargeback. The chargeback is there to ensure that fraud doesn't happen - you can't sell things under false pretences. It may not be a reasonable claim, but that's still a long way from fraud unless you're doing this for to personally gain out of it in some way, or cause harm to the 'merchant'. Fraud requires intent to do one of those things. Perhaps if someone had posted "AHAHAHA I JUST SCREWED CRYPTIC COS THEY GOT FINED WHEN I DID A CHARGEBACK, EVERYONE DO IT!!!!" -- then you might be ok to bandy around terms like fraud.
I strongly disagree.
Nothing was sold under false pretenses, these are just some spiteful individuals with buyers remorse that now think they should be allowed to get there money back. The method utilized to do so, as described by the OP, most certainly is fraudulent and to try and claim it is anything less is simply false.
The bottom line is this:
Whether a customer "feels" like they received a different product is irrelevant, as the system is in place to protect those customers who actually did get legitmately wronged, not these individuals who received exactly what they paid for and now feel a pang of remose because the game didn't live up to, or meet, there expectations.
The title of the thread, regardless of what it is or isn't, has nothing to do with it.
I strongly disagree. Nothing was sold under false pretenses, these are just some spiteful individuals with buyers remorse that now think they should be allowed to get there money back. The method utilized to do so, as described by the OP, most certainly is fraudulent and to try and claim it is anything less is simply false. The bottom line is this: Whether a customer "feels" like they received a different product is irrelevant, as the system is in place to protect those customers who actually did get legitmately wronged, not these individuals who received exactly what they paid for and now feel a pang of remose because the game didn't live up to, or meet, there expectations. The title of the thread, regardless of what it is or isn't, has nothing to do with it.
The game was sold under false pretenses, as it implies that you can have some effect on the nature of the universe ( Including discovering "new races", there're what? Three in the game? And "altering the future of Star Trek"? My arse you can. ), whilst it is merely a static universe, with players having no effect on it, even for themselves.
EDIT: The buyer's remorse thing kind of proves you have no clue what you're talking about, really.
For one, linking a website that makes available information any schmuck can freely post and edit is idiotic. Now regardless of how factual the information is, which I'm not disputing at all, just use something...legit. I'd say your in the latter stages of buyers remorse. There are plenty of randomly generated new species in certain zones. And as for altering the future, something that hasn't even been set in stone for the ST EU...do they use EU for ST as well? anyway....the game JUST FUCKING CAME OUT! What did you hope to alter so far? My god you're just a complete fucking idiot. Yes, I know I'll be reported, wont be the first time. Goddamn pussies. All of you who agree with the OP are just goddamn spineless liberal pussies who think the whole goddamn universe revolves around you all. See you all when my ban is over.
"GODDAMN LIBERALS HOW DARE YOU EXPECT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF CONSUMER RIGHTS THE COMPANIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTROL YOU FROM BIRTH TO DEATH AND RAPE
YOU IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY UNTIL YOU DIE FFS!"
Hell, at least we've seen the TRUE face of the people who disagree with credit card charges.
EDIT: I'm not going to report you, you've made a massive tit of yourself and it's hilarious.
Yeah, I'm so shamed. Does this mean we won't get to meet in real life? You really think it matters how I come off to you half wits over the internet? Do we go out? Are we friends? Do we even know each other? You're not expressing consumer rights. You're expressing twitism. Wiki that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse - Really, go read it. The game was sold under false pretenses, as it implies that you can have some effect on the nature of the universe ( Including discovering "new races", there're what? Three in the game? And "altering the future of Star Trek"? My arse you can. ), whilst it is merely a static universe, with players having no effect on it, even for themselves. EDIT: The buyer's remorse thing kind of proves you have no clue what you're talking about, really.
It proves nothing, and as I said previously, I disagree.
No, it was not sold under false pretenses, you do have some effect on the nature of the universe, the effect you have just wasn't what you expected it to be.
False expectations and misguided spite are not a suitable reason to file a chargeback, and linking me to wikipedia is a poor way to try and defend your position, as it only serves to show just how little you have to go on in terms of justifying your own actions. I know full and well what buyers remorse is, frankly there are quite a few cases of it in this very thread, regardless of whether or not you agree with the context in which I used the term.
My opinion on the subject has been made perfectly clear, I don't have anything further to add to the discussion that has not already been said by myself or others who share my opinion, so I'll kindly bow out now.
OP, grow some and learn to live with the consequences of your actions. I tire of people with your mindset, I regret buying it so I want my MONEY YOU SCAMMERS.
I see no evidence of a "scam" from cryptic at all. The truth be told, you, or others like you made an informed choice to buy the game, you had opportunity to try the game for free via open beta. You had plenty of information from both sides of the fence regarding the game, it's quality and features.
The game exists, it works, it is a game, and available for purchase. If you try it and dislike like it tough, chalk it up to experience and be sure not to make the same mistake again.
Yeah, I'm so shamed. Does this mean we won't get to meet in real life? You really think it matters how I come off to you half wits over the internet? Do we go out? Are we friends? Do we even know each other? You're not expressing consumer rights. You're expressing twitism. Wiki that.
"I'm too cool to be respected on the internet. Report me, ban me, I won't care."
@Kort: Actually, I'm 90% certain that encouraging a false image of the game counts as both a scam and as fraud ( which Cryptic Online has been doing for years, now ), so yeah... It's perfectly legal and within reason.
You care about a faceless recognition of respect? Does this mean you're never going to leave the basement?
Originally posted by Daffid011 I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either. Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
Well there are reviews, there are gameplay videos, there are trials, there is game rental (for some games)..... Games are for consumption, and I suspect if we actually want a games industry this is not something that is going to be to anyone benefit in the long run. STO is made by Cryptic, forearmed is forewarned as Goro might say, think before you buy and be prepared to live with the consequence of your descision.
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
When someone is trying to sell something to you it is wise to be suspicious regardless of the law on misrepresentation. Today there are a number of ways for players to be smart and look beyond the hype, imho proactive effort on your own part is always more worthwhile and reliable than trusting another to be your eyes.
These bland generic thempark games are surviving because people are believing what they are told, rather than seeking clarification and support that the game delivers on what it promises (or enough to make you buy). Voting with your wallet is the only way they will consider change.
Just curious, but perhaps the first step would be to call Mythic and try to resolve differences with them before going to such extremes?
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either.
Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
Sorry, I just wanted to point out the Mythic mistake.
You aren't one of the people making chargebacks sound scary, I actually agree with you on trying to settle the insatisfaction on what was delivered compared to what was advertised with Cryptic first as chargebacks are bad for sellers, it would be like in a restaurant talking to the waiter/maitre/manager before calling the credit card company, but since we're at home playing it seems wrongly easier and faster to contact the credit card company than Cryptic's customer support (another reason you want to provide a good customer support).
Remember that beta isn't a trial, if they had a trial it would be a lot less reasonable to purchase and request a chargeback, pretty differently from a hyped release, although trials are being twisted in the MMO genre as something to add only months after release, yet they should be a consumer benefit to get to know the game before purchasing it.
There are a lot of ways for it to be reasonable, most advertisements aren't full truths and most concepts aren't set in stone, for all these subjectivities not met you can ask for a chargeback (I wish they did more of an analysis though, to see if the person is lying or actually believed in these expectations for the product not met AND highlighted by Cryptic).
If the food isn't good... you do get a refund. You don't have to bow down and accept your lost money to sellers on everything they say and give you that won't match.
Regardless if you think its morally sound or not, the option is there to anyone that feels slighted by the purchase. Ones personal opinion varies on the level of what constitutes being mislead on a purchase, and therefore leaves the chargeback guidelines as a very broad and open interpretation. Its done intentionally by the issuing banks. Its not Capitol Ones job to keep Cryptics customers happy. Its Capitol Ones job to keep Capitol Ones customers happy.
Thus, you can leave it up to your own personal preference if you feel Cryptics tactics are just or not, but regardless: the option to issue a chargeback is there, and its a risk that Cryptic fully understands when accepting Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover. The must be confident enough in their product to fully be aware that people are not required to accept what they sell. Just like any other company. Make no misgivings that they dont understand the full impact of taking credit cards over the net.
If they truly didnt want to agree to the terms of service of their merchant provider, they could always try a direct withdrawn from peoples personal checking through ACH software. Theyd lose a ton of business and its not fiscally sound, but its an option. Just like the customers option to issue a chargeback.
OP what you did was utterly wrong! There is enough information on this site, from fans, people who dislike the game, and other mmo websites that there should be no excuses for your "buyers remorse" or legal stealing. Bottom line.
Maybe one day you'll own a business and somebody like you will attempt to return something they used and demand thier money back. maybe then you'll know how it feels.
(DDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH fires plungers at Op's nut sack for stealing)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Anyone know how long it takes to get a refund via paypal? I called them up and reached someone after almost 2 hours in the queue... he said ok to the refund (billing CS rep) and after being hold for a few more minutes came back and said ok were all set and hung up on me. So far he cancelled my account but I dont see anything on my paypal yet. Pretty frustrated at this point but I am glad Cryptic is allowing refunds.
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others... Currently Playing: DAOC
Sorry, I just wanted to point out the Mythic mistake. You aren't one of the people making chargebacks sound scary, I actually agree with you on trying to settle the insatisfaction on what was delivered compared to what was advertised with Cryptic first as chargebacks are bad for sellers, it would be like in a restaurant talking to the waiter/maitre/manager before calling the credit card company, but since we're at home playing it seems wrongly easier and faster to contact the credit card company than Cryptic's customer support (another reason you want to provide a good customer support). Remember that beta isn't a trial, if they had a trial it would be a lot less reasonable to purchase and request a chargeback, pretty differently from a hyped release, although trials are being twisted in the MMO genre as something to add only months after release, yet they should be a consumer benefit to get to know the game before purchasing it. There are a lot of ways for it to be reasonable, most advertisements aren't full truths and most concepts aren't set in stone, for all these subjectivities not met you can ask for a chargeback (I wish they did more of an analysis though, to see if the person is lying or actually believed in these expectations for the product not met AND highlighted by Cryptic). If the food isn't good... you do get a refund. You don't have to bow down and accept your lost money to sellers on everything they say and give you that won't match.
Anyone know how long it takes to get a refund via paypal? I called them up and reached someone after almost 2 hours in the queue... he said ok to the refund (billing CS rep) and after being hold for a few more minutes came back and said ok were all set and hung up on me. So far he cancelled my account but I dont see anything on my paypal yet. Pretty frustrated at this point but I am glad Cryptic is allowing refunds.
Cryptic isn't. Paypal will force it.
Send an email to them if you can't be bothered phoning.
Originally posted by RavingRabbid OP what you did was utterly wrong! )
No. it isn't. Your mentality is different, but, it doesn't make the OP wrong in any shape or form. If he doesn't feel he got the value for his money, why should he just accept the product? If Cryptic is not willing to give any unsatified customer they're money back, then that customer has the right to go to there card holder and say "this isn't what I wanted".
Just like any other business based mostly on accepting the terms & conditions of credit cards.
Your mentality is different, but, it doesn't make the OP wrong in any shape or form.
If he doesn't feel he got the value for his money, why should he just accept the product? If Cryptic is not willing to give any unsatified customer they're money back, then that customer has the right to go to there card holder and say "this isn't what I wanted".
Just like any other business based mostly on accepting the terms & conditions of credit cards.
See, when I went over this same thing about Mortal Online, everyone said, OH it was in beta, it wasn't released, etc. etc. and you know what? they had a point, the game wasn't released, they just made a bad decision, but the developers were too stupid to cover their ass or be responsible. Now heres a released game, stable, with most people having box in hand, or special items in game already or whatever, and they don't like it so they want their money back. I stand firm on the fact that this is ridiculously childish. I just disputed something on my credit card yesterday, and going through the dispute reasons with the credit card company "I didn't like it" wasn't one of the choices I was able to choose for dispute.
Thats all this ends up being, and if you had any sense at all, you wouldn't buy the game on release if you were going to just turn tail and give up because its not to your liking. Going through the credit card company is also extremely cowardly. Most of the time, and even cryptic has in the past, had their customer support refund charges based on customer dissatisfaction. If you spoke with them and told them you were considering disputing the charge due to false advertising, they would've probably given your money back as they did for players of champions online.
Instead you go straight to the credit card company, and I honestly hope cryptic disputes those charges.
Originally posted by maskedweasel If you spoke with them and told them you were considering disputing the charge due to false advertising, they would've probably given your money back as they did for players of champions online.
Instead you go straight to the credit card company, and I honestly hope cryptic disputes those charges.
I agree this should be done first & foremost. Its after being told no by the merchant (in this case, Cryptic) that I see nothing wrong w/ calling your issuing card and initiating a chargeback.
Further, one of options is this: Dispute - Defective/Not as Described Thats as close to I didnt like it as youll get. Why didnt someone like it? B/c it wasnt as described
That comes straight off a dispute page at First Data, one of the biggest card processors in NA.
Just b/c the merchant makes all these arbitrary reasons to not let someone be satisfied, does not mean a consumer needs to lay down and take it. The account will be closed, the box can be resold w/ a new code, and the virtual items used cost a dime a dozen. So, Cryptics loss is minimal if they give unsatisfied people their money back. If they wont, any consumer that values their own money, will take it a step further. I dont see how its cowardly to go through the only portal available to give you a refund. I find it cowardly to sit on your ass and think well I guess I didnt do my due-diligence, b/c I took other peoples opinions, and it wasnt what I thought. Oh well. To bad for me Thats asinine, gullible and weak, IMO.
Also be wary of taking financial advice from some random off the internet. If Cryptic decides to dispute your chargeback, the credit company will likely side with them (they are, after all, a multi million dollar business), and that might lead to a black mark being put on your credit report, lowering your credit rating. Trust me, you will care a lot more about a black mark on your credit report than Cryptic will.
lol this is BS. The laws are stacked in the consumers favor. It's hard and expensive for a merchant to dispute a charge back. CC's and banks will side with the consumer in most cases unless your charge back was blatantly not warranted. Like the game or hate the game doesn't matter, but don't go spreading misinformation about charge back laws lol.
Well there are reviews, there are gameplay videos, there are trials, there is game rental (for some games)..... Games are for consumption, and I suspect if we actually want a games industry this is not something that is going to be to anyone benefit in the long run. STO is made by Cryptic, forearmed is forewarned as Goro might say, think before you buy and be prepared to live with the consequence of your descision.
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
Do you really think Shell's gasoline cleans your engine better with its Nitrogen Enriched Gas than BP or Exxon Mobile or even the no-name gas station down the road? Most gasolines clean your engines about the same.
I firmly believe that YOU are responsible for the consequences of YOUR desicions. If you buy a game you are responsible for it. Even if you dont like it.
Game companies dont get off free either. As more people don't like something the word-of-mouth advertisement(considered the best for of advertisement) can stop a game in its tracks. Look at SWG. After they pissed off thier cosutmer base, they cant bring the population of the game back no matter how hard they try.
Making a game is a business and anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb. Cryptic wants to make money. If they tank thier reputation by making poor quality games with good IPs then you wont see Cryptic in a few years.
Its just annoying when people like the poster I quoted try to pass blame off from thier own actions. People need to learn to look into thier investments before making them. You people should've listened to the beta players or watched thier gameplay videos.
I generally avoid buying a game at launch unless I know I will like it and thats usually because I've been following the game or researching it for a while.
So, essentially, a law that has been agreed on by the vast majority of the Western world is wrong and you are right?
EDIT: I think the problem here is the egotism displayed by people who claim that chargebacks are wrong and that we should always allow the company to do what they like. These people claim that the ones who want chargebacks are liberals, have a strong sense of entitlement and were spoilt as children leading to a massive ego, are generally just committing fraud and breaking laws etc etc.
And, yet, they're claiming that they know better than the Western world leaders on what credit card chargebacks should and shouldn't be used for? They're claiming that they know better than the CREDIT CARD COMPANIES THEMSELVES? Do they really doubt that measures are in place to prevent fraud, or are they just so full of themselves that they think they're the only ones capable of coming up with it? I don't know, that just seems like something a spoilt child would think...
A company would have to specifically say something falsely that could be determined in black or white as being false for you to be able to get your money back without the risk of Cryptic going back after your money. If what they say is in any shade of grey then you can't.
When companies say product A is better then product B for example they can instantly say that is just an opinion so the issue is done.
I am getting a bit tired of the gamers who don't think before buying anything and then cry until they get their money back (without realizing that could change back against them. For example most banks/credit cards will now give you the money back while they investigate the issue. This does NOT mean that you have won yet and several months later when they finish investigating they can take the money back out of your account without any notice. So don't think you've already achieved it).
Commercials and infomercials go far beyond anything that you read at the star trek site and guess what? They all fall within the law. Stop being niave and then blaming everyone else in the world.
Comments
I strongly disagree.
Nothing was sold under false pretenses, these are just some spiteful individuals with buyers remorse that now think they should be allowed to get there money back. The method utilized to do so, as described by the OP, most certainly is fraudulent and to try and claim it is anything less is simply false.
The bottom line is this:
Whether a customer "feels" like they received a different product is irrelevant, as the system is in place to protect those customers who actually did get legitmately wronged, not these individuals who received exactly what they paid for and now feel a pang of remose because the game didn't live up to, or meet, there expectations.
The title of the thread, regardless of what it is or isn't, has nothing to do with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse - Really, go read it.
The game was sold under false pretenses, as it implies that you can have some effect on the nature of the universe ( Including discovering "new races", there're what? Three in the game? And "altering the future of Star Trek"? My arse you can. ), whilst it is merely a static universe, with players having no effect on it, even for themselves.
EDIT: The buyer's remorse thing kind of proves you have no clue what you're talking about, really.
"GODDAMN LIBERALS HOW DARE YOU EXPECT TO HAVE SOME KIND OF CONSUMER RIGHTS THE COMPANIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTROL YOU FROM BIRTH TO DEATH AND RAPE
YOU IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY UNTIL YOU DIE FFS!"
Hell, at least we've seen the TRUE face of the people who disagree with credit card charges.
EDIT: I'm not going to report you, you've made a massive tit of yourself and it's hilarious.
Yeah, I'm so shamed. Does this mean we won't get to meet in real life? You really think it matters how I come off to you half wits over the internet? Do we go out? Are we friends? Do we even know each other? You're not expressing consumer rights. You're expressing twitism. Wiki that.
It proves nothing, and as I said previously, I disagree.
No, it was not sold under false pretenses, you do have some effect on the nature of the universe, the effect you have just wasn't what you expected it to be.
False expectations and misguided spite are not a suitable reason to file a chargeback, and linking me to wikipedia is a poor way to try and defend your position, as it only serves to show just how little you have to go on in terms of justifying your own actions. I know full and well what buyers remorse is, frankly there are quite a few cases of it in this very thread, regardless of whether or not you agree with the context in which I used the term.
My opinion on the subject has been made perfectly clear, I don't have anything further to add to the discussion that has not already been said by myself or others who share my opinion, so I'll kindly bow out now.
OP, grow some and learn to live with the consequences of your actions. I tire of people with your mindset, I regret buying it so I want my MONEY YOU SCAMMERS.
I see no evidence of a "scam" from cryptic at all. The truth be told, you, or others like you made an informed choice to buy the game, you had opportunity to try the game for free via open beta. You had plenty of information from both sides of the fence regarding the game, it's quality and features.
The game exists, it works, it is a game, and available for purchase. If you try it and dislike like it tough, chalk it up to experience and be sure not to make the same mistake again.
"I'm too cool to be respected on the internet. Report me, ban me, I won't care."
@Kort: Actually, I'm 90% certain that encouraging a false image of the game counts as both a scam and as fraud ( which Cryptic Online has been doing for years, now ), so yeah... It's perfectly legal and within reason.
You care about a faceless recognition of respect? Does this mean you're never going to leave the basement?
Look, it doesnt matter...
No matter what your reason you can demand a refund from a credit-card. Its part of your insurance.
You dont need to make stuff up about being mis-sold, you can simply say you wernt satisfied with the quality of the product.
You dont even need to ask Cryptic for your money back first either.
Just contact the CC company and file the dispute, then email cryptic and make them aware of your dispute. The CC company will do the rest.
You, and others, are trying to make chargebacks scary, and that is morally wrong.
How exactly am I trying to make it "scary"?
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
When someone is trying to sell something to you it is wise to be suspicious regardless of the law on misrepresentation. Today there are a number of ways for players to be smart and look beyond the hype, imho proactive effort on your own part is always more worthwhile and reliable than trusting another to be your eyes.
These bland generic thempark games are surviving because people are believing what they are told, rather than seeking clarification and support that the game delivers on what it promises (or enough to make you buy). Voting with your wallet is the only way they will consider change.
Mythic? DAOC and Warhammer? Sorry, had to point that out.
Anyway, why so many people trying to make it chargebacks scary for the customer? It's not like the credit card company is going to ban you and blacklist you, the worst case scenario is only CRYPTIC blacklisting you on the information you provided at the purchase occasion. And this isn't litigation, you aren't going to pay anything even if Cryptic somehow disputes the chargeback and wins, you were in your right.
It's a valid consumer weapon. If you feel you did not receive what you were advertised for, get your money back, it's the only way you can show them they are doing something wrong. Don't go spamming it around though, you still should research before purchasing a game, especially with games that advertise themselves as MMOs, because in theory they aren't about playing for 2 weeks and bye bye.
Of course it shouldn't hurt to contact Cryptic before doing it to see if you can come to an agreement before hitting them in the money face.
I am not trying to make charge backs scary, but I don't think they should be someones first action either.
Not that the original posters intention seems to be concern over a refund as much as it is to cause harm to Cryptic, because they didn't like the game.
I'm just not so sure the original poster is looking to resolve an issue they have with a company or twisting something that was designed to protect customers into a weapon to cause harm to a company.
Sorry, I just wanted to point out the Mythic mistake.
You aren't one of the people making chargebacks sound scary, I actually agree with you on trying to settle the insatisfaction on what was delivered compared to what was advertised with Cryptic first as chargebacks are bad for sellers, it would be like in a restaurant talking to the waiter/maitre/manager before calling the credit card company, but since we're at home playing it seems wrongly easier and faster to contact the credit card company than Cryptic's customer support (another reason you want to provide a good customer support).
Remember that beta isn't a trial, if they had a trial it would be a lot less reasonable to purchase and request a chargeback, pretty differently from a hyped release, although trials are being twisted in the MMO genre as something to add only months after release, yet they should be a consumer benefit to get to know the game before purchasing it.
There are a lot of ways for it to be reasonable, most advertisements aren't full truths and most concepts aren't set in stone, for all these subjectivities not met you can ask for a chargeback (I wish they did more of an analysis though, to see if the person is lying or actually believed in these expectations for the product not met AND highlighted by Cryptic).
If the food isn't good... you do get a refund. You don't have to bow down and accept your lost money to sellers on everything they say and give you that won't match.
As far as I'm aware everyone was given an ample opportunity to try this game via an open beta right?
There have been thousands of forum posts about this game to date.
If you can't make an informed decision regarding a purchase on the internet then quite frankly you shouldn't have a credit card.
Not happy? Tough.
You made a mistake so learn from it, don't be in such a rush next time and make sure you know what you're buying.
(I know nothing about STO and have no interest in it, this is just a general comment on this thread)
Actually, the TRUE bottom line is this
Regardless if you think its morally sound or not, the option is there to anyone that feels slighted by the purchase. Ones personal opinion varies on the level of what constitutes being mislead on a purchase, and therefore leaves the chargeback guidelines as a very broad and open interpretation. Its done intentionally by the issuing banks. Its not Capitol Ones job to keep Cryptics customers happy. Its Capitol Ones job to keep Capitol Ones customers happy.
Thus, you can leave it up to your own personal preference if you feel Cryptics tactics are just or not, but regardless: the option to issue a chargeback is there, and its a risk that Cryptic fully understands when accepting Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover. The must be confident enough in their product to fully be aware that people are not required to accept what they sell. Just like any other company. Make no misgivings that they dont understand the full impact of taking credit cards over the net.
If they truly didnt want to agree to the terms of service of their merchant provider, they could always try a direct withdrawn from peoples personal checking through ACH software. Theyd lose a ton of business and its not fiscally sound, but its an option. Just like the customers option to issue a chargeback.
OP what you did was utterly wrong! There is enough information on this site, from fans, people who dislike the game, and other mmo websites that there should be no excuses for your "buyers remorse" or legal stealing. Bottom line.
Maybe one day you'll own a business and somebody like you will attempt to return something they used and demand thier money back. maybe then you'll know how it feels.
(DDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH fires plungers at Op's nut sack for stealing)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Anyone know how long it takes to get a refund via paypal? I called them up and reached someone after almost 2 hours in the queue... he said ok to the refund (billing CS rep) and after being hold for a few more minutes came back and said ok were all set and hung up on me. So far he cancelled my account but I dont see anything on my paypal yet. Pretty frustrated at this point but I am glad Cryptic is allowing refunds.
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months
Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others...
Currently Playing: DAOC
Well said.
Momo sucks, I have proof.
Cryptic isn't. Paypal will force it.
Send an email to them if you can't be bothered phoning.
No. it isn't.
Your mentality is different, but, it doesn't make the OP wrong in any shape or form.
If he doesn't feel he got the value for his money, why should he just accept the product? If Cryptic is not willing to give any unsatified customer they're money back, then that customer has the right to go to there card holder and say "this isn't what I wanted".
Just like any other business based mostly on accepting the terms & conditions of credit cards.
works at wow ,aion etc also,whats the news?
Generation P
No. it isn't.
Your mentality is different, but, it doesn't make the OP wrong in any shape or form.
If he doesn't feel he got the value for his money, why should he just accept the product? If Cryptic is not willing to give any unsatified customer they're money back, then that customer has the right to go to there card holder and say "this isn't what I wanted".
Just like any other business based mostly on accepting the terms & conditions of credit cards.
See, when I went over this same thing about Mortal Online, everyone said, OH it was in beta, it wasn't released, etc. etc. and you know what? they had a point, the game wasn't released, they just made a bad decision, but the developers were too stupid to cover their ass or be responsible. Now heres a released game, stable, with most people having box in hand, or special items in game already or whatever, and they don't like it so they want their money back. I stand firm on the fact that this is ridiculously childish. I just disputed something on my credit card yesterday, and going through the dispute reasons with the credit card company "I didn't like it" wasn't one of the choices I was able to choose for dispute.
Thats all this ends up being, and if you had any sense at all, you wouldn't buy the game on release if you were going to just turn tail and give up because its not to your liking. Going through the credit card company is also extremely cowardly. Most of the time, and even cryptic has in the past, had their customer support refund charges based on customer dissatisfaction. If you spoke with them and told them you were considering disputing the charge due to false advertising, they would've probably given your money back as they did for players of champions online.
Instead you go straight to the credit card company, and I honestly hope cryptic disputes those charges.
Please stay on topic and refrain from attacking other posters.
I agree this should be done first & foremost. Its after being told no by the merchant (in this case, Cryptic) that I see nothing wrong w/ calling your issuing card and initiating a chargeback.
Further, one of options is this: Dispute - Defective/Not as Described
Thats as close to I didnt like it as youll get. Why didnt someone like it? B/c it wasnt as described
That comes straight off a dispute page at First Data, one of the biggest card processors in NA.
Just b/c the merchant makes all these arbitrary reasons to not let someone be satisfied, does not mean a consumer needs to lay down and take it. The account will be closed, the box can be resold w/ a new code, and the virtual items used cost a dime a dozen. So, Cryptics loss is minimal if they give unsatisfied people their money back. If they wont, any consumer that values their own money, will take it a step further. I dont see how its cowardly to go through the only portal available to give you a refund. I find it cowardly to sit on your ass and think well I guess I didnt do my due-diligence, b/c I took other peoples opinions, and it wasnt what I thought. Oh well. To bad for me Thats asinine, gullible and weak, IMO.
lol this is BS. The laws are stacked in the consumers favor. It's hard and expensive for a merchant to dispute a charge back. CC's and banks will side with the consumer in most cases unless your charge back was blatantly not warranted. Like the game or hate the game doesn't matter, but don't go spreading misinformation about charge back laws lol.
So, instead of expecting the company to give us truthful information on the game, we should go to other sources? Yeah, great way of encouraging companies to deal with the consequences of THEIR own decisions.
See, this is the problem, gamers are forced to deal with the consequences of their purchases, whereas companies get off scot free by making as much money back off selling boxes ( often badly advertised ) and then make a profit off subscriptions. THIS is what encourages shitty themepark games. Not WoW's success, the fact that MMOs are basically an example of making $$$ for free.
Do you really think Shell's gasoline cleans your engine better with its Nitrogen Enriched Gas than BP or Exxon Mobile or even the no-name gas station down the road? Most gasolines clean your engines about the same.
I firmly believe that YOU are responsible for the consequences of YOUR desicions. If you buy a game you are responsible for it. Even if you dont like it.
Game companies dont get off free either. As more people don't like something the word-of-mouth advertisement(considered the best for of advertisement) can stop a game in its tracks. Look at SWG. After they pissed off thier cosutmer base, they cant bring the population of the game back no matter how hard they try.
Making a game is a business and anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb. Cryptic wants to make money. If they tank thier reputation by making poor quality games with good IPs then you wont see Cryptic in a few years.
Its just annoying when people like the poster I quoted try to pass blame off from thier own actions. People need to learn to look into thier investments before making them. You people should've listened to the beta players or watched thier gameplay videos.
I generally avoid buying a game at launch unless I know I will like it and thats usually because I've been following the game or researching it for a while.
So, essentially, a law that has been agreed on by the vast majority of the Western world is wrong and you are right?
EDIT: I think the problem here is the egotism displayed by people who claim that chargebacks are wrong and that we should always allow the company to do what they like. These people claim that the ones who want chargebacks are liberals, have a strong sense of entitlement and were spoilt as children leading to a massive ego, are generally just committing fraud and breaking laws etc etc.
And, yet, they're claiming that they know better than the Western world leaders on what credit card chargebacks should and shouldn't be used for? They're claiming that they know better than the CREDIT CARD COMPANIES THEMSELVES? Do they really doubt that measures are in place to prevent fraud, or are they just so full of themselves that they think they're the only ones capable of coming up with it? I don't know, that just seems like something a spoilt child would think...
A company would have to specifically say something falsely that could be determined in black or white as being false for you to be able to get your money back without the risk of Cryptic going back after your money. If what they say is in any shade of grey then you can't.
When companies say product A is better then product B for example they can instantly say that is just an opinion so the issue is done.
I am getting a bit tired of the gamers who don't think before buying anything and then cry until they get their money back (without realizing that could change back against them. For example most banks/credit cards will now give you the money back while they investigate the issue. This does NOT mean that you have won yet and several months later when they finish investigating they can take the money back out of your account without any notice. So don't think you've already achieved it).
Commercials and infomercials go far beyond anything that you read at the star trek site and guess what? They all fall within the law. Stop being niave and then blaming everyone else in the world.