And when the item shops dominate all the MMOs what then ? Force us to quit?I think its time to either A. Raise sub prices and include all content and items and accquiring them in game thru normal means or B. All P2P that want to double dip and squueze every penny like a greedy old miser and become F2P. There is no real reason why not sub prices can't be raised and provide the means to support these titles.
And while I'm thinking about it when did everyone become a business and economic expert on these forums ? I remember a few years ago before WOW was a wet spot in Blizzard's pants that on game forums and older MMOs we talk about the game we loved and games and ideas on improving them and just discussing non important stuff now everyone is a business expert on their views that they think is how the industry works, I can never take these people seriously nor never will especially when they can't take open criticism and actually take in account the consequences that these steps towards cash shops in all MMOs regardless if they are P2P or F2P all I've been hearing so far is YAY Blizzard!!! Take my money !! Look at other MMOs out there that are P2P and have cash shops or TCG (gambling schemes) everyone started out with just fluff, just like you are all defending Blizzard are now, now these games went past the cosmetic and started offering XP Potions, Buffs, Crafting Schematics, Armor, and Weapons, they always say it will be just vanity items and they always lie so if it is their job to make money now and not create a quality game let them keep doing and let the suckers.. I mean players keep throwing money at it.
For the people that disagree and hate the idea people are buying these pixels and takes away from you obtaining it in game by just throwing money at it you know who they are when they pull the mount out and ride it around if it affects you so much blacklist people from PUGs and guilds, usually people that buy their way thru the game dont get a lot of sympathy, example if you know x player hacks, buys gold , or pays to powerlevel these people are shunned and excluded and are ignored by legit players this is no different. There are ways to deter this type of behavior use those measures.
Its pretty much over for this genre if this continues we went from worlds , excitement and adventure to console type online games with blatant cash grab exploits same thing with mainstream gaming, its a a scam plain and simple, think about it.
Believe it or not, there are many business majors that frequent these forums, including myself. Whatever "expert" advice you're seeing in this thread is VERY basic business stuff. You don't have to like it, but capatalism is the name of the game in the west. Businesses are in the business of increasing their shareholder's wealth. If the demand is there for cash shop items, they will supply the demand. It's very simple really.
Since I don't derive my self worth from a video game, I personally don't waste my money on extra stuff from the cash shops. I just play the game. However, I'm also an objective person who is educated in business, so I can see why Blizzard would do this and don't blame them.
You can laugh all you want at those people who are objective in their views, while you go all fanatic and boycott whatever, because in the end, people like you will be left without a game and crying over the injustice of it all, while the rest of the world has long since moved on, and has remembered that these games are just a business, created for people to have fun; it's not life.
I think what Blizzard are doing is testing the water with these pets and mounts to see how much negativity it generates . Should the Warcraft community be generally accepting of this they will expand upon it . I wonder how many susbscribers will support the first non-vanity item or xp boost Blizzard make available in the Store . I don't think we will see this before the launch of Cataclysm but I'm certain it will come following it . One reason I'm dubious about going back(as are many others I've spoken too) .A cash shop would be a real game changer .
Kinda seems like this mount was just sitting around in a datafile somewhere and they decided to put it up. The mount CLEARLY looks like it should've been an Algalon the Observer achievement mount. Pics to follow:
That said, why do another raider achievement mount (when so many exist already, the sarth 3d mounts, the rusted/iron bound from uld, the heroic achieve red proto (not raid, but more diff than most), mimi's head, the raid achievement mount, and now invincible from H LK 25. And those are just from this expansion :P.
And when the item shops dominate all the MMOs what then ? Force us to quit?I think its time to either A. Raise sub prices and include all content and items and accquiring them in game thru normal means or B. All P2P that want to double dip and squueze every penny like a greedy old miser and become F2P. There is no real reason why not sub prices can't be raised and provide the means to support these titles.
And while I'm thinking about it when did everyone become a business and economic expert on these forums ? I remember a few years ago before WOW was a wet spot in Blizzard's pants that on game forums and older MMOs we talk about the game we loved and games and ideas on improving them and just discussing non important stuff now everyone is a business expert on their views that they think is how the industry works, I can never take these people seriously nor never will especially when they can't take open criticism and actually take in account the consequences that these steps towards cash shops in all MMOs regardless if they are P2P or F2P all I've been hearing so far is YAY Blizzard!!! Take my money !! Look at other MMOs out there that are P2P and have cash shops or TCG (gambling schemes) everyone started out with just fluff, just like you are all defending Blizzard are now, now these games went past the cosmetic and started offering XP Potions, Buffs, Crafting Schematics, Armor, and Weapons, they always say it will be just vanity items and they always lie so if it is their job to make money now and not create a quality game let them keep doing and let the suckers.. I mean players keep throwing money at it.
For the people that disagree and hate the idea people are buying these pixels and takes away from you obtaining it in game by just throwing money at it you know who they are when they pull the mount out and ride it around if it affects you so much blacklist people from PUGs and guilds, usually people that buy their way thru the game dont get a lot of sympathy, example if you know x player hacks, buys gold , or pays to powerlevel these people are shunned and excluded and are ignored by legit players this is no different. There are ways to deter this type of behavior use those measures.
Its pretty much over for this genre if this continues we went from worlds , excitement and adventure to console type online games with blatant cash grab exploits same thing with mainstream gaming, its a a scam plain and simple, think about it.
Your sig is just awesome. Fortunately I quit SWG long before that TCG BS.
" It's a VERY bad sign for the MMO genre. Devs will be looking at those sales and realizing making dungeons and writing lore and fixing bugs doesn't pay as well. "
Yeah, tell that to Mythic
The only reason this works for WoW is that it has a large, stable playerbase that has a lot of time and effort invested into the game as it stands. They have all these little mini-games added in (achievements, pet collecting, etc) that people are willing to devote vast amounts of time to (people have been collecting pets for a very long time, looong before achievements came out). Blizzard realised that some people are also willing to spend cash as well as time.
If a relatively new MMO offered these fluff items in a cash shop they would largely be ignored.
So you really do need to spend a lot of money making dungeons and writing lore and fixing bugs. Without a stable game that people feel invested in there is no point in a cash shop selling fluff items.
I bet sometime next year Blizzard will offer max level toon for $40. Hell it might happen sooner than next year.
Don't be so extremist. As long as WoW maintains a minimum player base they won't do crazy things, u just need to remember that WoW won't be their "main-and-almost-only" cash source for too long (sc2 is about to launch, theres also diablo 3 and their new MMO coming).
But I really can see this hapenning, maybe in five years, 10th WoW anniversary. The game is quickly losing it's vital playerbase due to big launches and old competitors increasingly growth (gw2, ffxiv, swtor, elders of scroll online [?]), there are just a few dozen servers on the US and they are losing market troughout the world.
Blizzard is not a noob company, they surely know that would happen some time and they were prepared. A new path to the Warcraft series: Warcraft 4 is finnaly announced, 100 years after the WoW events. The champions who bravely defeated the Old Gods, Illidan, the Lich King, Deathwing, Azshara and many more threats to the world are all dead. The peace made Azeroth defenders weak, and Sargeras recent strike at the north frozenlands brings up a new campaign to Northrend, all this in a scenario of flaming politics between the new born five factions.
And what about WoW? Well, make it F2P, improve the cash shop, max level toon for $40, things like u said. Blizzard will probably be getting enough revenue from their NEW MMO + SC2 + D3 to try to sustain an about to die game as it is now. However, making it F2P would kick off the small weak old player base from the game and bring in A LOT of people (f2pers) that never had the chance to play WoW (believe me theres a lot of them).
Thats what I see happening (too dreamy? yes i know...) with WoW, maybe in five years, but definitely not sooner than NEXT YEAR.
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
Believe it or not, there are many business majors that frequent these forums, including myself. Whatever "expert" advice you're seeing in this thread is VERY basic business stuff. You don't have to like it, but capatalism is the name of the game in the west. Businesses are in the business of increasing their shareholder's wealth. If the demand is there for cash shop items, they will supply the demand. It's very simple really.
Since I don't derive my self worth from a video game, I personally don't waste my money on extra stuff from the cash shops. I just play the game. However, I'm also an objective person who is educated in business, so I can see why Blizzard would do this and don't blame them.
You can laugh all you want at those people who are objective in their views, while you go all fanatic and boycott whatever, because in the end, people like you will be left without a game and crying over the injustice of it all, while the rest of the world has long since moved on, and has remembered that these games are just a business, created for people to have fun; it's not life.
I think the concept that even an "educated" and "objective" person like yourself fails to grasp is that just because most societies and goverments run on capitalist systems doesn't mean we have to like it, does it? When capitalism gets to its most extreme and grotesque form most people don't like it and the same goes for gamers, take the TCG it has even been banned in some states in the U.S. Why not use some of that objectivism and tell us what you think of that? Are the people that don't like it just crying over the injustice whilst you laugh and move on? Or do you think the U.S state authorities are correct to ban it and it is infact an illegal way to take peoples money?
MMORPGs are just a busines created for people to have fun and it's not life? I thought you were "educated" and "objective"? It's an industry that generates billions of dollars and employs many people around the world and that doesn't include the gold sellers and hack and bot sellers. That is life my friend, no different from any recreational industry.
I wonder how long it took you studying in university to work out why Blizzard would sell stuff in an item shop? Most of us dumb gamers worked it out without the benefit of a trust fund or bachelors degree!
You can laugh at those people prepared to boycott mercenary companies that sell over priced and low quality products with item shops and a subscription, but in the end without them people like you would be left playing a glorified item shop for $50 a month whilst the rest of the world has moved on!
You see I can write a post and be a condescending prick too and I didn't even have to go to university first!!!!!!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I bet sometime next year Blizzard will offer max level toon for $40. Hell it might happen sooner than next year.
Don't be so extremist. As long as WoW maintains a minimum player base they won't do crazy things, u just need to remember that WoW won't be their "main-and-almost-only" cash source for too long (sc2 is about to launch, theres also diablo 3 and their new MMO coming).
But I really can see this hapenning, maybe in five years, 10th WoW anniversary. The game is quickly losing it's vital playerbase due to big launches and old competitors increasingly growth (gw2, ffxiv, swtor, elders of scroll online [?]), there are just a few dozen servers on the US and they are losing market troughout the world.
Blizzard is not a noob company, they surely know that would happen some time and they were prepared. A new path to the Warcraft series: Warcraft 4 is finnaly announced, 100 years after the WoW events. The champions who bravely defeated the Old Gods, Illidan, the Lich King, Deathwing, Azshara and many more threats to the world are all dead. The peace made Azeroth defenders weak, and Sargeras recent strike at the north frozenlands brings up a new campaign to Northrend, all this in a scenario of flaming politics between the new born five factions.
And what about WoW? Well, make it F2P, improve the cash shop, max level toon for $40, things like u said. Blizzard will probably be getting enough revenue from their NEW MMO + SC2 + D3 to try to sustain an about to die game as it is now. However, making it F2P would kick off the small weak old player base from the game and bring in A LOT of people (f2pers) that never had the chance to play WoW (believe me theres a lot of them).
Thats what I see happening (too dreamy? yes i know...) with WoW, maybe in five years, but definitely not sooner than NEXT YEAR.
Well at 20 a hit thats only 100,000 people. When you have millions of subs thats really not a lot of people. So this really isn't that impressive.
If this isn't impressive then I don't know what is. How many man hours do you think they spent on this? Do the simple math income / man-hours and tell me at least one thing with a better profit ratio.
Cladhopper got owned - lol.
Ugh, WoW sets yet another horrid trend for new MMOs ;/
Believe it or not, there are many business majors that frequent these forums, including myself. Whatever "expert" advice you're seeing in this thread is VERY basic business stuff. You don't have to like it, but capatalism is the name of the game in the west. Businesses are in the business of increasing their shareholder's wealth. If the demand is there for cash shop items, they will supply the demand. It's very simple really.
Since I don't derive my self worth from a video game, I personally don't waste my money on extra stuff from the cash shops. I just play the game. However, I'm also an objective person who is educated in business, so I can see why Blizzard would do this and don't blame them.
You can laugh all you want at those people who are objective in their views, while you go all fanatic and boycott whatever, because in the end, people like you will be left without a game and crying over the injustice of it all, while the rest of the world has long since moved on, and has remembered that these games are just a business, created for people to have fun; it's not life.
I think the concept that even an "educated" and "objective" person like yourself fails to grasp is that just because most societies and goverments run on capitalist systems doesn't mean we have to like it, does it? When capitalism gets to its most extreme and grotesque form most people don't like it and the same goes for gamers, take the TCG it has even been banned in some states in the U.S. Why not use some of that objectivism and tell us what you think of that? Are the people that don't like it just crying over the injustice whilst you laugh and move on? Or do you think the U.S state authorities are correct to ban it and it is infact an illegal way to take peoples money?
MMORPGs are just a busines created for people to have fun and it's not life? I thought you were "educated" and "objective"? It's an industry that generates billions of dollars and employs many people around the world and that doesn't include the gold sellers and hack and bot sellers. That is life my friend, no different from any recreational industry.
I wonder how long it took you studying in university to work out why Blizzard would sell stuff in an item shop? Most of us dumb gamers worked it out without the benefit of a trust fund or bachelors degree!
You can laugh at those people prepared to boycott mercenary companies that sell over priced and low quality products with item shops and a subscription, but in the end without them people like you would be left playing a glorified item shop for $50 a month whilst the rest of the world has moved on!
You see I can write a post and be a condescending prick too and I didn't even have to go to university first!!!!!!
1. I wasn't condenscending. The other guy was making fun of the people talking business, as if a mmorpg.com forum member couldn't be educated or something.
2. You're assuming that I haven't realized that people don't like capatalism, and you're wrong. I'd think people disagreeing over capatalism would be a given. If you don't like Capatalism, which allows anyone to rise to the top if they possess the intelligence and ambition, then what do you like? Socialism? You don't have to like capatalism, but it's reality.
3. Doing business is a part of life, but playing video games isn't life. If you'd of paid attention to the thread, then you'd of seen that the way people are reacting to stuff happening to a game is overboard, as if someone robbed their house or something.
4. I wish I had a trust fun. I grew up poor, and have to work for everything I get. I also grew up for the most part without playing video games. I started playing video games at 22 years old, back when DAoC came out. If a game or a genre didn't please me, I'd just stop playing them. Life without a video game to play is quite fine, so quit acting like everyone must go to "some" game if not a P2P game.
5. If item shops are required to advance in a game, and the item shop prices are overboard, then I wouldn't pay them. It's that simple.
i dont agree with item shops, i think that it is unfair on the people that cant afford to buy the latest shiny "Stabber 4000 XL GTI", it doesnt mean that they are any less dedicated to the game or any less skilled yet they get penalised.
The only efficient way to counter this would be to turn WoW-life a living hell for everyone who owns one, ignoring them, refusing to trade with them, to group with them until they're too ashamed to ever use it again and hesitant to buy anything else from the Blizzard shop.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
WoW has stopped growing subs world wide. What a run they had years and years of player growth but the numbers are slowly going in the other direction now. How do you continue to grow revenue? Insert a item shop to get your hard core player base to buy fluff.
With the wild success of this, they actually had a queue of hours at one point because of the demand there will be a LOT more this to come in WoW.
i dont agree with item shops, i think that it is unfair on the people that cant afford to buy the latest shiny "Stabber 4000 XL GTI", it doesnt mean that they are any less dedicated to the game or any less skilled yet they get penalised.
i agree. But for Free MMO's a item shop is necessary for funding, unless your gunna donate their server fees?.
I believe in Item shops for F2P games as long as they do not take balance out of the game. Itemshop: "PSSH, Don't feel like doing those dungeons and long quest for your gear? Who does hard work and put's time into a game, ill trade you all the same gear or better for some money. How bout It?".
Now even though i said that, not just gear takes out balance, but other things allowing a boost up, such as enchantment things, maybe a faster travel, E-Currency sold for real money, item boosting another thing thats not a enchant, a to big of a money/exp increase (over 10% increase exp/ 5% money recieve from (sell/drop/quest) is to much). IMO, just appeal, 10% exp, 5% more money; nothing that will case a player to get a huge gap of more money or character ability in gear or limited items for skill.
Also the prices for a item shop must be resonable, i've seen some unreasonable itemshops like, 20 bucks for a item?, Not worth it.
Yet, for a P2P to have a item shop is out of the question. Means they are just getting a little greedy or don't have enough sub's (But not the case with WoW). Now i do support CCP's idea for Plex's -(Pilot License Extenstion x? '30 days playing time'). Yet it goes against my beliefs on item shops being able to sell a item for real currency, it is limited such as certain station, you don't have to sell it; And not to mention EvE online isn't that popular to the masses, and so CCP doesn't have such a mass income as Blizzard. Not to mention players who really love the game and don't have the money to spare can use in-game currency to buy playing time, and CCP get's there money. (Also being able to buy game time and sell it, discourages buying gold, when you can do it legal)
WoW has stopped growing subs world wide. What a run they had years and years of player growth but the numbers are slowly going in the other direction now. How do you continue to grow revenue? Insert a item shop to get your hard core player base to buy fluff.
With the wild success of this, they actually had a queue of hours at one point because of the demand there will be a LOT more this to come in WoW.
i auctually used my 7days WoW free time. They messed it up. They wan't everyone to do PVE, and do less PVP. 'Took out marks, only allowed to queue for 2 BG's, Cannot queue for Random BG and something else, have to have both sides full before you even get queue. For instance, 20vs20 (20players ready, 19ready... have to wait)'. Queus take forever, at least 20minutes. Depending on battlegroup, may take even longer.
It's well within my budget to buy the mount or any of the other fluff items in Blizzard's store. I simply have chosen not to do so (at this point). That does not mean, however, that I have a problem with the items being offered.
The items don't offer anything that isn't already obtainable in game through one means or another. Were a lot of people upset when mounts became obtainable at level 20? Yep. Not me. I took my low level alts off to the trainer, paid the gold, and got my riding skill and my mount. On my first toon, however, I ground it out. But on my alts, I could have cared less - having riding at 20 made leveling easier and faster, thank you very much Blizzard for not making me waste any more time taking the shoeleather express! Leveling is boring the 3rd, 4,th, 5th time through and anything that makes it just a little bit faster is a godsend in my opinion.
Regarding the Celestial Steed, it's pretty-ish. Not really my style because it reminds me an awful lot of the My Little Pony toys that were popular when I was a child, and I can't imagine any of my toons RP-wise being able to explain it except for maybe my Paladin and perhaps my Priest (blah, blah, Holy Light, blah, blah), but I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't allow the player to exceed their riding skill level and it's really nothing more than fluff. Any other mount for the character's skill level is available in game for purchase or via drop, so it's not giving anyone an advantage over anyone else, it's merely giving a mount with a different skin. It's not like they took the mount drop from Onyxia and decided to make it purchasable through the store - then I might have a different opinion.
Same with the pets they offer. Don't have any of them and have never seen the need (at this point) to really spend any real world cash on them, but I'm not opposed to them, either. They're fluff, they're kind of cute (ok, the Monk pet cracks me up), and they don't do any harm to the players that opt not to buy them in terms of what they offer to the players that do buy them. They are strictly cosmetic. You want pets, you can go out and kill mobs to your heart's content until the pet you want drops. Several pets are purchasable from vendors in game or on the auction house, so it isn't as if you can't get your pet achievements that way.
Fluff items that don't detract from the general population's game experience don't do any damage to the game. And, the reality is, they're here to stay. They are part of the current and probably future MMO business model. The reality is that all those people who paid the $10 or $25 dollars for those fluff items are probably the people who are keeping our subscriptions at $15 a month instead of $17.50-$20 a month. Would many of us pay the extra sub fee for a polished game that we enjoy that has good customer service? Most likely. I know I would pay a little extra because I recognize that the economy is not doing well and inflation grows but out sub fees have not gone up in years. Still, another way to look at the issue is that cash shops that deal strictly in fluff that does not impact the game's playability or performance in any way are benefiting even those of us who choose not to take advantage of what they have to offer. Maybe instead of getting up in arms about them and getting angry at those who wish to use the purely fluff/cosmetic items they offer, it might be worth considering the idea that those millions of dollars the fluff cash shops generate may be what's helping keep our subscription fees steady at $15 for the time being. If it were all about profit, our sub fees would be raised in addition to the cash shops, I would think.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
If she bought a WOW T-shirt, she should feel guilty wearing it because you couldn't buy one?
you are missing the point
It's merchandise, you aren't forced to buy it.
you are missing the point
If someone has the funds to get what most players have the time to get, then so be it.
you are missing the point
My wife is a mom, an employee and a volunteer. She can pull off getting this mount with out being a child living in their parent's basement playing 12 hours a day to get all the cool things.
ok so here is my point..... i hate this game more and more because of this crap because:
it used to be a great game, and EARNING things like mounts gave you a sense of accomplishment. I grinded my ASS off earning money to get my mount, and now they basically just give them away 20 levels lower, or in this case you can just pay real money for it and they give it to you. Where is the challenge in that? How much longer till you can just buy gear off the website and have the upper hand just because you make more money then some of the players?
the game used to be fun untill tons of noobs started whining that everything was too hard... now they just hand you everything on a platter. Including levels.
That is my point, and i do not care if you don't agree with it. I'm sure the fanboi's will just flame away anyways cause they are in denial.
You are missing the point. You said it yourself..You grinded your ass off getting your epic mount...Some of us do not have the time for that. It is just a mount a vanity item not a game changer. You assume that since they sell a mount now that weapons and other items will follow. You dont know that you are just making an assumption. You hate WOW thats fine play something else no loss
i am just saying that i don't give a crap aboutn whether or not someone has time to do this sort of thing. I am just saying that the people who actually want to putn in the effort and have the time are getting screwed over by lazy people, and people who whine to the devs to hand them everything on a silver platter. If you don't have time to grind a bit to get good gear, or a mount, then don't complain and ruin it for the rest of us who do. It would be a little different if you could actually grind to get the same thing in game, but making it exclusive to the whiners makes me hate blizz.
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BUYING E-PETS AND SPEND MONEY AT REAL STORES TO SUPPORT REAL JOBS... AHHH!!!
People need to stop trying to make other peoples choices for them. Blizzard employs quite a number of people who have real jobs as a consequence.
No, no. There are no real people there. Just a real rep or two. WoW was created by the Matrix. It has you :P But its true what you said. There are too many people on here who think their opinions should dictate others' choices.
I haven't looked at this topic in a few days. Quite a number of posts since then. Too bad there are more complaints about this mount then there are the "casino players" and gold farmers that whisper me every 20 minutes.
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
actually you can just buy original wow and you get all the updates in cata minus the new races. You can level 1-60 in the brand new zones and revamped world. Also I'm sure they will just do the battlechest time thing where 40 bucks gets you everything up to cata
I haven't looked at this topic in a few days. Quite a number of posts since then. Too bad there are more complaints about this mount then there are the "casino players" and gold farmers that whisper me every 20 minutes.
You can report gold sellers in-game to Blizzard. To whom do you report Blizzard for doing virtually the same thing?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
actually you can just buy original wow and you get all the updates in cata minus the new races. You can level 1-60 in the brand new zones and revamped world. Also I'm sure they will just do the battlechest time thing where 40 bucks gets you everything up to cata
Unless you can get me a Dev official claim. Where they State that is final, my statement still stands.
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
actually you can just buy original wow and you get all the updates in cata minus the new races. You can level 1-60 in the brand new zones and revamped world. Also I'm sure they will just do the battlechest time thing where 40 bucks gets you everything up to cata
Unless you can get me a Dev official claim. Where they State that is final, my statement still stands.
They have said that you don't need the new expansion to take part in the revamped old zones. I expect next you'll ask me or others to prove it. I won't do your homework for you. You can look it up if you want; it's not our fault or our chore to inform you when you haven't been keeping up on information.
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
actually you can just buy original wow and you get all the updates in cata minus the new races. You can level 1-60 in the brand new zones and revamped world. Also I'm sure they will just do the battlechest time thing where 40 bucks gets you everything up to cata
Unless you can get me a Dev official claim. Where they State that is final, my statement still stands.
They have said that you don't need the new expansion to take part in the revamped old zones. I expect next you'll ask me or others to prove it. I won't do your homework for you. You can look it up if you want; it's not our fault or our chore to inform you when you haven't been keeping up on information.
Sorry, since i missed it. Work, College, other worries. Not a WoW addict (Don't even play WoW now; Bring vanilla back RAWR). Guess i kinda missed it. Was a serious question Kay!? and things do change, you can write all you want on how your going to do this and say that, but unless you have a official statement on how its going to be (which can even change) then you never know what will happen.
I haven't looked at this topic in a few days. Quite a number of posts since then. Too bad there are more complaints about this mount then there are the "casino players" and gold farmers that whisper me every 20 minutes.
You can report gold sellers in-game to Blizzard. To whom do you report Blizzard for doing virtually the same thing?
Reporting to Blizzard only goes so far. Also, why would I report Blizzard when I see them at not fault. They have not harrassed me, forced me to do anything, or stolen anything from me. But if I was to report them, its called the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Doubt it would go anywhere, though, for the reasons I just mentioned.
Comments
Believe it or not, there are many business majors that frequent these forums, including myself. Whatever "expert" advice you're seeing in this thread is VERY basic business stuff. You don't have to like it, but capatalism is the name of the game in the west. Businesses are in the business of increasing their shareholder's wealth. If the demand is there for cash shop items, they will supply the demand. It's very simple really.
Since I don't derive my self worth from a video game, I personally don't waste my money on extra stuff from the cash shops. I just play the game. However, I'm also an objective person who is educated in business, so I can see why Blizzard would do this and don't blame them.
You can laugh all you want at those people who are objective in their views, while you go all fanatic and boycott whatever, because in the end, people like you will be left without a game and crying over the injustice of it all, while the rest of the world has long since moved on, and has remembered that these games are just a business, created for people to have fun; it's not life.
I think what Blizzard are doing is testing the water with these pets and mounts to see how much negativity it generates . Should the Warcraft community be generally accepting of this they will expand upon it . I wonder how many susbscribers will support the first non-vanity item or xp boost Blizzard make available in the Store . I don't think we will see this before the launch of Cataclysm but I'm certain it will come following it . One reason I'm dubious about going back(as are many others I've spoken too) .A cash shop would be a real game changer .
Kinda seems like this mount was just sitting around in a datafile somewhere and they decided to put it up. The mount CLEARLY looks like it should've been an Algalon the Observer achievement mount. Pics to follow:
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=32871#screenshots:id=132856 (alg)
http://www.cataclysmfrontlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/celestialsteed.jpg (cele steed)
That said, why do another raider achievement mount (when so many exist already, the sarth 3d mounts, the rusted/iron bound from uld, the heroic achieve red proto (not raid, but more diff than most), mimi's head, the raid achievement mount, and now invincible from H LK 25. And those are just from this expansion :P.
Your sig is just awesome. Fortunately I quit SWG long before that TCG BS.
/cheers
Yeah, tell that to Mythic
The only reason this works for WoW is that it has a large, stable playerbase that has a lot of time and effort invested into the game as it stands. They have all these little mini-games added in (achievements, pet collecting, etc) that people are willing to devote vast amounts of time to (people have been collecting pets for a very long time, looong before achievements came out). Blizzard realised that some people are also willing to spend cash as well as time.
If a relatively new MMO offered these fluff items in a cash shop they would largely be ignored.
So you really do need to spend a lot of money making dungeons and writing lore and fixing bugs. Without a stable game that people feel invested in there is no point in a cash shop selling fluff items.
Don't be so extremist. As long as WoW maintains a minimum player base they won't do crazy things, u just need to remember that WoW won't be their "main-and-almost-only" cash source for too long (sc2 is about to launch, theres also diablo 3 and their new MMO coming).
But I really can see this hapenning, maybe in five years, 10th WoW anniversary. The game is quickly losing it's vital playerbase due to big launches and old competitors increasingly growth (gw2, ffxiv, swtor, elders of scroll online [?]), there are just a few dozen servers on the US and they are losing market troughout the world.
Blizzard is not a noob company, they surely know that would happen some time and they were prepared. A new path to the Warcraft series: Warcraft 4 is finnaly announced, 100 years after the WoW events. The champions who bravely defeated the Old Gods, Illidan, the Lich King, Deathwing, Azshara and many more threats to the world are all dead. The peace made Azeroth defenders weak, and Sargeras recent strike at the north frozenlands brings up a new campaign to Northrend, all this in a scenario of flaming politics between the new born five factions.
And what about WoW? Well, make it F2P, improve the cash shop, max level toon for $40, things like u said. Blizzard will probably be getting enough revenue from their NEW MMO + SC2 + D3 to try to sustain an about to die game as it is now. However, making it F2P would kick off the small weak old player base from the game and bring in A LOT of people (f2pers) that never had the chance to play WoW (believe me theres a lot of them).
Thats what I see happening (too dreamy? yes i know...) with WoW, maybe in five years, but definitely not sooner than NEXT YEAR.
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I think the concept that even an "educated" and "objective" person like yourself fails to grasp is that just because most societies and goverments run on capitalist systems doesn't mean we have to like it, does it? When capitalism gets to its most extreme and grotesque form most people don't like it and the same goes for gamers, take the TCG it has even been banned in some states in the U.S. Why not use some of that objectivism and tell us what you think of that? Are the people that don't like it just crying over the injustice whilst you laugh and move on? Or do you think the U.S state authorities are correct to ban it and it is infact an illegal way to take peoples money?
MMORPGs are just a busines created for people to have fun and it's not life? I thought you were "educated" and "objective"? It's an industry that generates billions of dollars and employs many people around the world and that doesn't include the gold sellers and hack and bot sellers. That is life my friend, no different from any recreational industry.
I wonder how long it took you studying in university to work out why Blizzard would sell stuff in an item shop? Most of us dumb gamers worked it out without the benefit of a trust fund or bachelors degree!
You can laugh at those people prepared to boycott mercenary companies that sell over priced and low quality products with item shops and a subscription, but in the end without them people like you would be left playing a glorified item shop for $50 a month whilst the rest of the world has moved on!
You see I can write a post and be a condescending prick too and I didn't even have to go to university first!!!!!!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
its not, Blizzard anymore. Its ActiFail+Bliz.
Cladhopper got owned - lol.
Ugh, WoW sets yet another horrid trend for new MMOs ;/
1. I wasn't condenscending. The other guy was making fun of the people talking business, as if a mmorpg.com forum member couldn't be educated or something.
2. You're assuming that I haven't realized that people don't like capatalism, and you're wrong. I'd think people disagreeing over capatalism would be a given. If you don't like Capatalism, which allows anyone to rise to the top if they possess the intelligence and ambition, then what do you like? Socialism? You don't have to like capatalism, but it's reality.
3. Doing business is a part of life, but playing video games isn't life. If you'd of paid attention to the thread, then you'd of seen that the way people are reacting to stuff happening to a game is overboard, as if someone robbed their house or something.
4. I wish I had a trust fun. I grew up poor, and have to work for everything I get. I also grew up for the most part without playing video games. I started playing video games at 22 years old, back when DAoC came out. If a game or a genre didn't please me, I'd just stop playing them. Life without a video game to play is quite fine, so quit acting like everyone must go to "some" game if not a P2P game.
5. If item shops are required to advance in a game, and the item shop prices are overboard, then I wouldn't pay them. It's that simple.
Nice try though.
i dont agree with item shops, i think that it is unfair on the people that cant afford to buy the latest shiny "Stabber 4000 XL GTI", it doesnt mean that they are any less dedicated to the game or any less skilled yet they get penalised.
The only efficient way to counter this would be to turn WoW-life a living hell for everyone who owns one, ignoring them, refusing to trade with them, to group with them until they're too ashamed to ever use it again and hesitant to buy anything else from the Blizzard shop.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
WoW has stopped growing subs world wide. What a run they had years and years of player growth but the numbers are slowly going in the other direction now. How do you continue to grow revenue? Insert a item shop to get your hard core player base to buy fluff.
With the wild success of this, they actually had a queue of hours at one point because of the demand there will be a LOT more this to come in WoW.
i agree. But for Free MMO's a item shop is necessary for funding, unless your gunna donate their server fees?.
I believe in Item shops for F2P games as long as they do not take balance out of the game. Itemshop: "PSSH, Don't feel like doing those dungeons and long quest for your gear? Who does hard work and put's time into a game, ill trade you all the same gear or better for some money. How bout It?".
Now even though i said that, not just gear takes out balance, but other things allowing a boost up, such as enchantment things, maybe a faster travel, E-Currency sold for real money, item boosting another thing thats not a enchant, a to big of a money/exp increase (over 10% increase exp/ 5% money recieve from (sell/drop/quest) is to much). IMO, just appeal, 10% exp, 5% more money; nothing that will case a player to get a huge gap of more money or character ability in gear or limited items for skill.
Also the prices for a item shop must be resonable, i've seen some unreasonable itemshops like, 20 bucks for a item?, Not worth it.
Yet, for a P2P to have a item shop is out of the question. Means they are just getting a little greedy or don't have enough sub's (But not the case with WoW). Now i do support CCP's idea for Plex's -(Pilot License Extenstion x? '30 days playing time'). Yet it goes against my beliefs on item shops being able to sell a item for real currency, it is limited such as certain station, you don't have to sell it; And not to mention EvE online isn't that popular to the masses, and so CCP doesn't have such a mass income as Blizzard. Not to mention players who really love the game and don't have the money to spare can use in-game currency to buy playing time, and CCP get's there money. (Also being able to buy game time and sell it, discourages buying gold, when you can do it legal)
i auctually used my 7days WoW free time. They messed it up. They wan't everyone to do PVE, and do less PVP. 'Took out marks, only allowed to queue for 2 BG's, Cannot queue for Random BG and something else, have to have both sides full before you even get queue. For instance, 20vs20 (20players ready, 19ready... have to wait)'. Queus take forever, at least 20minutes. Depending on battlegroup, may take even longer.
It's well within my budget to buy the mount or any of the other fluff items in Blizzard's store. I simply have chosen not to do so (at this point). That does not mean, however, that I have a problem with the items being offered.
The items don't offer anything that isn't already obtainable in game through one means or another. Were a lot of people upset when mounts became obtainable at level 20? Yep. Not me. I took my low level alts off to the trainer, paid the gold, and got my riding skill and my mount. On my first toon, however, I ground it out. But on my alts, I could have cared less - having riding at 20 made leveling easier and faster, thank you very much Blizzard for not making me waste any more time taking the shoeleather express! Leveling is boring the 3rd, 4,th, 5th time through and anything that makes it just a little bit faster is a godsend in my opinion.
Regarding the Celestial Steed, it's pretty-ish. Not really my style because it reminds me an awful lot of the My Little Pony toys that were popular when I was a child, and I can't imagine any of my toons RP-wise being able to explain it except for maybe my Paladin and perhaps my Priest (blah, blah, Holy Light, blah, blah), but I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't allow the player to exceed their riding skill level and it's really nothing more than fluff. Any other mount for the character's skill level is available in game for purchase or via drop, so it's not giving anyone an advantage over anyone else, it's merely giving a mount with a different skin. It's not like they took the mount drop from Onyxia and decided to make it purchasable through the store - then I might have a different opinion.
Same with the pets they offer. Don't have any of them and have never seen the need (at this point) to really spend any real world cash on them, but I'm not opposed to them, either. They're fluff, they're kind of cute (ok, the Monk pet cracks me up), and they don't do any harm to the players that opt not to buy them in terms of what they offer to the players that do buy them. They are strictly cosmetic. You want pets, you can go out and kill mobs to your heart's content until the pet you want drops. Several pets are purchasable from vendors in game or on the auction house, so it isn't as if you can't get your pet achievements that way.
Fluff items that don't detract from the general population's game experience don't do any damage to the game. And, the reality is, they're here to stay. They are part of the current and probably future MMO business model. The reality is that all those people who paid the $10 or $25 dollars for those fluff items are probably the people who are keeping our subscriptions at $15 a month instead of $17.50-$20 a month. Would many of us pay the extra sub fee for a polished game that we enjoy that has good customer service? Most likely. I know I would pay a little extra because I recognize that the economy is not doing well and inflation grows but out sub fees have not gone up in years. Still, another way to look at the issue is that cash shops that deal strictly in fluff that does not impact the game's playability or performance in any way are benefiting even those of us who choose not to take advantage of what they have to offer. Maybe instead of getting up in arms about them and getting angry at those who wish to use the purely fluff/cosmetic items they offer, it might be worth considering the idea that those millions of dollars the fluff cash shops generate may be what's helping keep our subscription fees steady at $15 for the time being. If it were all about profit, our sub fees would be raised in addition to the cash shops, I would think.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
i am just saying that i don't give a crap aboutn whether or not someone has time to do this sort of thing. I am just saying that the people who actually want to putn in the effort and have the time are getting screwed over by lazy people, and people who whine to the devs to hand them everything on a silver platter. If you don't have time to grind a bit to get good gear, or a mount, then don't complain and ruin it for the rest of us who do. It would be a little different if you could actually grind to get the same thing in game, but making it exclusive to the whiners makes me hate blizz.
END OF LINE.
No, no. There are no real people there. Just a real rep or two. WoW was created by the Matrix. It has you :P But its true what you said. There are too many people on here who think their opinions should dictate others' choices.
I haven't looked at this topic in a few days. Quite a number of posts since then. Too bad there are more complaints about this mount then there are the "casino players" and gold farmers that whisper me every 20 minutes.
To the poster who said. "had to grind to hell for a epic mount", Im sorry that isn't the case anymore, because blizz made it to easy. a epic mount cost 10g, but level 20 you can have 10g. (training cost 40G), by level 40 when you can learn it, no problem. If your talking about flying, again; The training is what cost the gold not the mount. LearnTheGameFirstBeforeYouRant (L2GFYR).
Im going to start a forum in WoW here @mmorpg.com posing the question. Catacylsm forced on everyone? you have to think, since they are changing everything in WoW, their is no way you can just buy WoW and play the game. You have to buy all expansion+WoW to play it..
actually you can just buy original wow and you get all the updates in cata minus the new races. You can level 1-60 in the brand new zones and revamped world. Also I'm sure they will just do the battlechest time thing where 40 bucks gets you everything up to cata
You can report gold sellers in-game to Blizzard. To whom do you report Blizzard for doing virtually the same thing?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Unless you can get me a Dev official claim. Where they State that is final, my statement still stands.
They have said that you don't need the new expansion to take part in the revamped old zones. I expect next you'll ask me or others to prove it. I won't do your homework for you. You can look it up if you want; it's not our fault or our chore to inform you when you haven't been keeping up on information.
Sorry, since i missed it. Work, College, other worries. Not a WoW addict (Don't even play WoW now; Bring vanilla back RAWR). Guess i kinda missed it. Was a serious question Kay!? and things do change, you can write all you want on how your going to do this and say that, but unless you have a official statement on how its going to be (which can even change) then you never know what will happen.
Reporting to Blizzard only goes so far. Also, why would I report Blizzard when I see them at not fault. They have not harrassed me, forced me to do anything, or stolen anything from me. But if I was to report them, its called the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Doubt it would go anywhere, though, for the reasons I just mentioned.