If you have trouble with the game play use a xbox 360 controller. I loved every second of my beta experience. This game is going to rock when it releases. I am just glad open beta is getting rid of all the whiners so we don't to listen to all of you when it finally comes out.
So in order to play the game, I not only have to pay for the game itself, but another $50 for a controller? PC games shouldn't require a controller, I have an expensive gaming mouse and gaming keyboard for a reason.
You want to prove your mettle? Take on the real concerns and complaints...then you'll warrant your arrogance...
Sure thing. Just as soon as I see some that I didn't already mention one I didn't already take into account.
Besides, pro tip: it's not "proving your mettle" to address anything expressed by some spaz on an Internet forum. You can extend that same principle to me if you want, but as far as I'm concerned nit picking is too easy for me to care you're able to do it.
I'm finding it hard to believe avid gamers don't have a USB controller for their PC's or that it's only use would be this for game.
I do have a USB controller (Saitek P880) which works well, but I don't use it much. I find WASD for movement and IJKL for mouselook, home to open menu, cursors/enter/esc for menu navigation to be pretty comfortable. Of course, your milage may vary - perhaps having such keyboard skills is a part of the skill set of an avid gamer.
This game deliberately does not endeavor to make itself easy...
People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV.
You say the game is an unintuitive grind (which I completely agree with), yet you call it "quality". There are no quality games that frustrate you or waste large amounts of your time.
What you're really trying to say here is that "FFXIV is for people that enjoy slow-paced, simplistic MMORPG's and don't mind repetition or uneventful exploration".
Furthermore, FFXIV (the PC version anyway) has issues that a high-end PC will not fix. Console ports suck, that's just how it is. "Ease of use" is not an "easy button", it's something that makes the game more enjoyable. Someone with "ridiculous amounts of gaming experience" should know that.
I'm finding it hard to believe avid gamers don't have a USB controller for their PC's or that it's only use would be this for game.
I do have a USB controller (Saitek P880) which works well, but I don't use it much. I find WASD for movement and IJKL for mouselook, home to open menu, cursors/enter/esc for menu navigation to be pretty comfortable. Of course, your milage may vary - perhaps having such keyboard skills is a part of the skill set of an avid gamer.
Sorry geld, that post was directed at the general "concern" of others using that argument. Not directly at you
The game is nothing more than a console port as they did with their first venture in MMOs. Off the back, they implemented gamepad usage from the get go. The game reeks of "bad port" and plays like such. I tried to overlook the small thing such as "No Jumping" shouldn't bother me, but it does.
I played for about an hour. The game flatout does not impress beyond graphics. This should do well on what ever console they implement it on, but, Square, once again, shows that they do not know how to seperate the differences between Console and PC gaming.
Elitists for time immemorial have pulled this stunt, I suppose its the maturing of the MMORPG or gaming industry in general that causes it now. The first person to declaim that something is in fact misunderstood by the peons and is of exceptional quality and to do so convincingly attracts certain admirers. Those of whom the original approves of, those most supportive of his own perspective or those who bring additional weight to his own opinion are welcomed. Those who do not are considered pretenders or ignorant.
He is of course entitled to his opinion, he is not however entitled to speak down to anyone as any kind of authority on the subject, whether he does so explicitly or not. I don't particularly like poking trolls, and I certainly don't like having to use personal attacks, especially after the moderators have said so in the thread I am now writing to keep it civil. Have I? I really don't like arrogance, I'd much rather a discussion be held, but making lists and then excluding the people who don't get it as plainly inferior is arrogance.
Of course arrogance is almost as good an ego shield as blind faith and both are equally useless. The only thing that matters in the end is that squenix is not getting my money this time around, whether its because I can't appreciate their game, or I simply don't think they spent enough time making it appeal to their targeted audience is irrelevant.
Still casually insulting self styled experts has its own reward.
You say the game is an unintuitive grind (which I completely agree with), yet you call it "quality". There are no quality games that frustrate you or waste large amounts of your time.
On the contrary, just because it's unintuitive and possesses the qualities of a grind does not completely dissolve the possiblity that it is a quality game in spite of these qualities.
Originally posted by neosapience
What you're really trying to say here is that "FFXIV is for people that enjoy slow-paced, simplistic MMORPG's and don't mind repetition or uneventful exploration".
Your exaggeration does little justice to yourself or Final Fantasy XIV What you've written here is a bit like saying, 'well, I guess you can enjoy bowling if you like carrying stupidly heavy weights and throwing them down boring, uneventful lanes."
You're right on two adjectives used: Final Fantasy XIV does possess a slower pace than, say, Champions Online - not that all MMORPGs need to be viscerally fast, you know. It also possess qualities of reptition, as just about all computer RPGs do.
However, it's actually a bit of a stretch to call the game simplistic, it actually gets pretty complicated in terms of the abilities you'll have at your disposal to mix and match after you gain a few job ranks, and kicks that complication into overdrive by the time battle regimens enter the picture. Also, exploration is hardly unventful not only is the atmosphere excellent even on peaceful walks, but there's quite a few events: encountering hostile monsters (happens away from the starting area of course), finding places to gather resources, encountering your fellow players in need of help, and even a few things outside of the norm like impromptu monster hunts called by NPCs.
I explained this as I see it, but whether or not you can see this is why I said this is really why it's a game that suits conniseurs better.
Originally posted by neosapience
Furthermore, FFXIV (the PC version anyway) has issues that a high-end PC will not fix. Console ports suck, that's just how it is. "Ease of use" is not an "easy button", it's something that makes the game more enjoyable. Someone with "ridiculous amounts of gaming experience" should know that.
Exactly what does my having a ridiculous amount of gaming experience have to do with harboring such an easy kneejerk reaction about console games ported to PCs? Yes, it's oftne the case that a PC version of a console developed game will receive secondary priority. However, tell me that you can't enjoy, say, Arkham Asylum: it's not a universal.
Furthermore, it should be fairly clear by the fact that this game is coming out on the PC first that this is not a secondary platform in the eyes of Square-Enix. They just chose to keep the Interface this way because it follows the style of hte processessor, FFXI, and perhaps the Final Fantasy game line in general.
Originally posted by Torment1982
Elitists for time immemorial have pulled this stunt, I suppose its the maturing of the MMORPG or gaming industry in general that causes it now. The first person to declaim that something is in fact misunderstood by the peons and is of exceptional quality and to do so convincingly attracts certain admirers. Those of whom the original approves of, those most supportive of his own perspective or those who bring additional weight to his own opinion are welcomed. Those who do not are considered pretenders or ignorant.
He is of course entitled to his opinion, he is not however entitled to speak down to anyone as any kind of authority on the subject, whether he does so explicitly or not. I don't particularly like poking trolls, and I certainly don't like having to use personal attacks, especially after the moderators have said so in the thread I am now writing to keep it civil. Have I? I really don't like arrogance, I'd much rather a discussion be held, but making lists and then excluding the people who don't get it as plainly inferior is arrogance.
Of course arrogance is almost as good an ego shield as blind faith and both are equally useless. The only thing that matters in the end is that squenix is not getting my money this time around, whether its because I can't appreciate their game, or I simply don't think they spent enough time making it appeal to their targeted audience is irrelevant.
Still casually insulting self styled experts has its own reward.
Goodness, what a flatteringly in-depth fantasy about me you have. A tad beholden to stereotyping, but I suppose I can't blame a person for trying to make the world an easier place to understand through such categorization.
No, good sir, I'm afraid I just had as simple truth to convey, that this game won't suit everyone, it will specifically suit those who have the necessary experience to identify hte value of the game, and that this leaves me vulnerable to such easy labels.
Hello, been playing electronic games for about 28 years, and dozens of MMORPGs under my belt.
Final Fantasy XIV is pretty much in the same vein as Final Fantasy XI, brought up to date with many notable improvements, and should be appreciated by much the same audience as the players who enjoyed Final Fantasy XI. It doesn't pretend to be anything else, it doesn't bother competing with WoW because that's the wrong audience for it. What is delivers is very solid, with some caveats:
It will require a relatively-up-to-date computer: World of Warcraft was designed to run on two year old computers when it was released seven years ago. Final Fantasy XIV requires a computer that has somewhere along the lines of 20 times the computational power you'd need to run WoW comfortably. I've got a GeForce 250 GTS, 4 GB of RAM, and a quad core processor, a fairly middle-of-the-road system by today's standards: this was enough for an adequate play experience. Anything less, and you'll likely be suffering. If in doubt, try the benchmark.
The controls take some getting used to (especially for non-FFXI players): There is some definate consolitus here, but it can be overcome readily enough. The user will need to be able to adapt to an interface other than strictly mouse and keyboard. WASD travel with mouselook working on holding right click works well enough, but navigating the menus via mouse clicks is ill-advised: get used to using the cursor, enter, and escape key for menu navigation (these can be rebound to other keys). Of course, if you're using a gamepad, you'll find FFXIV is more than ready to accommodate you. Annoyingly, there is a bit of a GUI lag as the client seems to require frequent server interaction, but imagine this will die down a bit as the servers become better at handling the load throughout the duration of the stress test.
RTFM implied, but not well supported during beta: I think it's a fair assumption that there will be a manual included with the game, and it will be required reading. There's a lot of status icons that pop up which you may sorely wish you had a manual about to know what they mean, the context-sensitive help is still in Japanese in this version. There is a wealth of help tips to be found buried in various context menus throughout the game, such as explaining what attributes do, but I've seen easier ways to presenting that information, often they can only be accessed in certain geographical locations in the game.
This game deliberately does not endeavor to make itself easy: The mobs will put up a good fight and easily overcome the unprepared or GUI-flustered. I've encountered local guildleves (a certain kind of quest) where I'm expected to comb entire labyrinthine cities trying to find an NPC by name alone. The grind has definite breadth: it does not assume you loathe playing the game. It's good that the scenery is so enjoyable to take in, as you will spend a lot of time just walking to the same place several dozen times. These things are all different facets of the essence of difficulty in gaming, their inclusion deliberate, overcoming them being means to enjoy the game. Even the GUI impediment is uniquely stylistically Final Fantasy, and to do otherwise differs from fan expectation.
Crashes and disconnections happen: Fairly infrequently, perhaps to the tune of once every 2-3 hours (give or take depending on how lucky you are) but they happen. Unfortunately, if you happen to be doing a timed Guildleve when you're kicked out of the game, you will fail it. You'll either have the patience to deal with this or you won't, but undoubtedly the frequency of this wil decrease as the game undergoes continued refinement.
In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoisseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered.
People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV. However, you're certainly welcome to learn.
OP is a troll.. even the title of the thread says so "rediculously experienced gamers' first day". shameless self promotion. not to mention the last paragraph calling people who dont like the game pretty much retarded
Hello, been playing electronic games for about 28 years, and dozens of MMORPGs under my belt.
Final Fantasy XIV is pretty much in the same vein as Final Fantasy XI, brought up to date with many notable improvements, and should be appreciated by much the same audience as the players who enjoyed Final Fantasy XI. It doesn't pretend to be anything else, it doesn't bother competing with WoW because that's the wrong audience for it. What is delivers is very solid, with some caveats:
It will require a relatively-up-to-date computer: World of Warcraft was designed to run on two year old computers when it was released seven years ago. Final Fantasy XIV requires a computer that has somewhere along the lines of 20 times the computational power you'd need to run WoW comfortably. I've got a GeForce 250 GTS, 4 GB of RAM, and a quad core processor, a fairly middle-of-the-road system by today's standards: this was enough for an adequate play experience. Anything less, and you'll likely be suffering. If in doubt, try the benchmark.
The controls take some getting used to (especially for non-FFXI players): There is some definate consolitus here, but it can be overcome readily enough. The user will need to be able to adapt to an interface other than strictly mouse and keyboard. WASD travel with mouselook working on holding right click works well enough, but navigating the menus via mouse clicks is ill-advised: get used to using the cursor, enter, and escape key for menu navigation (these can be rebound to other keys). Of course, if you're using a gamepad, you'll find FFXIV is more than ready to accommodate you. Annoyingly, there is a bit of a GUI lag as the client seems to require frequent server interaction, but imagine this will die down a bit as the servers become better at handling the load throughout the duration of the stress test.
RTFM implied, but not well supported during beta: I think it's a fair assumption that there will be a manual included with the game, and it will be required reading. There's a lot of status icons that pop up which you may sorely wish you had a manual about to know what they mean, the context-sensitive help is still in Japanese in this version. There is a wealth of help tips to be found buried in various context menus throughout the game, such as explaining what attributes do, but I've seen easier ways to presenting that information, often they can only be accessed in certain geographical locations in the game.
This game deliberately does not endeavor to make itself easy: The mobs will put up a good fight and easily overcome the unprepared or GUI-flustered. I've encountered local guildleves (a certain kind of quest) where I'm expected to comb entire labyrinthine cities trying to find an NPC by name alone. The grind has definite breadth: it does not assume you loathe playing the game. It's good that the scenery is so enjoyable to take in, as you will spend a lot of time just walking to the same place several dozen times. These things are all different facets of the essence of difficulty in gaming, their inclusion deliberate, overcoming them being means to enjoy the game. Even the GUI impediment is uniquely stylistically Final Fantasy, and to do otherwise differs from fan expectation.
Crashes and disconnections happen: Fairly infrequently, perhaps to the tune of once every 2-3 hours (give or take depending on how lucky you are) but they happen. Unfortunately, if you happen to be doing a timed Guildleve when you're kicked out of the game, you will fail it. You'll either have the patience to deal with this or you won't, but undoubtedly the frequency of this wil decrease as the game undergoes continued refinement.
In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoisseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered.
People who are only gamers by casual circumstance, and don't get this whole "quality gameplay experience is more important than ease-of-use" thing; who just want to have the thing do what it says on the box so they can get on with their lives; who boot up their games and scream, "entertain me without my having to lift a finger or get out," will likely not be able understand the appeal of Final Fantasy XIV. However, you're certainly welcome to learn.
OP is a troll.. even the title of the thread says so "rediculously experienced gamers' first day". shameless self promotion. not to mention the last paragraph calling people who dont like the game pretty much retarded
He's correct and you are a fan who is unwilling to hear/accept any sort of objective criticism.
After Playing for 2 days in open beta I personally don't feel that the UI or learning curve is a serious game breaking issue to me.
I think games like WOW have spoiled us, they make this huge tutorials that teach us everything we need to know, like a father holding his daughters or sons hand and showing them around. This is a good way to attract more people, its easy and people like that.
FFXIV isnt like that and thats not because of a serious flaw, thats because its not supposed to be like that. A game like this is basically a drop you off and you learn things on your own. This is not a flaw on SE's part its to give you the feeling of being a new adventurer in a big new world . This games main focus, unlike most mainstream mmos, is on the road to the end and not the end itself.
Bottom line is this game is by no means perfect, but most gripes and complaints ive heard were against intentional design choices to make the game more immersive for its players.
Even if you dont like the game you must respect SE for taking the game in the direction they want, whether popular or not, and not following the standards of most games.
Thats just my opinion though and I dont make any claim of it being fact.
I agree tutorials shouldn't give you everything you need to know. but there are virtually no tutorials in FFXIV and there should be some to explain a bit more than they do, or at the very least a codex of knowledge to research in the event something comes up you know nothing about
Elitists for time immemorial have pulled this stunt, I suppose its the maturing of the MMORPG or gaming industry in general that causes it now. The first person to declaim that something is in fact misunderstood by the peons and is of exceptional quality and to do so convincingly attracts certain admirers. Those of whom the original approves of, those most supportive of his own perspective or those who bring additional weight to his own opinion are welcomed. Those who do not are considered pretenders or ignorant.
He is of course entitled to his opinion, he is not however entitled to speak down to anyone as any kind of authority on the subject, whether he does so explicitly or not. I don't particularly like poking trolls, and I certainly don't like having to use personal attacks, especially after the moderators have said so in the thread I am now writing to keep it civil. Have I? I really don't like arrogance, I'd much rather a discussion be held, but making lists and then excluding the people who don't get it as plainly inferior is arrogance.
Of course arrogance is almost as good an ego shield as blind faith and both are equally useless. The only thing that matters in the end is that squenix is not getting my money this time around, whether its because I can't appreciate their game, or I simply don't think they spent enough time making it appeal to their targeted audience is irrelevant.
Still casually insulting self styled experts has its own reward.
This is very true. I find it hard to believe anyone who only claims to have played games for a long time with no specifics. To speak as if you can appreciate games more than a "casual" gamer is nothing but complete bunk. There are many problems with the game in question. The biggest is the quality one could have come to expect from Square Enix.
Their games were at times trying especially if you went as far as to get the Japanesse versions. Some were actually downright brutal including the first Final Fantasy. This level of difficulty was not found in this game as far as actual gameplay goes. I can see that the graphics are wonderful, absolutely jaw dropping at times. The controls were obviously meant for a controller but I didn't have to much trouble using my mouse/wasd combination. The downloader I actually utilized with no issue, but I tend to leave the bigger downloads open when I sleep.
There are other issues many have addressed including lack of documentation, firstly all should realize this is not a trial. Many people forget that in betas this sort of thing is something a beta tester should be able to figure out. You should be trying everything you can to break the client, pressing random buttons, and the like. This may be the complete version and it may not, this should be kept in mind. I am not excusing it because it is a beta but instead reminding everyone that this product is still not complete. Everyone invited to the open beta is supposed to test it so they CAN finish it.
Though I can see this as art as well, it still needs to play well and be accessible by all with the machine to run it. The wonderful vistas, the fluidity of animations (which did not remain consistant in engine cutscenes), and the voice acting were up to par with Square's past level of quality. What I really found lacking was the great battles I remember from their single player offerings which can be brought to this format easily. I applaud Square Enix for their attempt and I may give it another chance after launch but I could not force myself to continue testing this build.
I hope others have a better experience with it and that the OP continues to enjoy it. I will qualify all my statements above by saying I enjoy single players much better than an MMO and I tend to come down hard on MMOs because they have such potential for story telling but so far have not had that and that's what I expected to find in a Final Fantasy MMO.
This game is shit! Really 6 quest in 2 days and mobs that you cannot grind wtf this isnt an mmo thats even worth FTP! The grafix sweet but rest is Shit unless you like walking around for hours after doing you 6 quest!
I describe there as being different "niches" of gamers and maybe that Final Fantasy XIV is just "not for you" if you don't enjoy it. Again, this is not to belittle you. World of Warcraft is often described as "the fast food of MMORPGs," an analogy that reflects that it serves millions but isn't a whole lot more than an extremely polished EverQuest with a more casual-friendly balance, but there's nothing wrong with that for millions of players who just want to get their MMORPG fix. If that's how you meet your caloric needs, who am I to judge? However, what if you don't want fast food? What if you want fine dining? With all the little frilly side dishes like "entirely player driven economy" and "long travel times to give the world a sense of size" and "deep, challenging, largely team-based combat" and such? Final Fantasy games have never been about "fast food" entertainment, and Final Fantasy XIV is no exception.
The problem is you are stating what is fast food and what is fine dining as fact, when unlike reality where its clear ramen noodles are crap and filet mignon is fine, it isnt so cut and dried in a mmo world.
To many (and I am not one of them) WoW is the epitome of fine dining, while games like EQ1 and UO are just junkfood, and of course the same can be said for the other side.
A better analogy would simply be, WoW is Mexican food and FF XIV is Italian. Both are good, both have their audiences, and both have folks who violently dislike the other.
As we are dealing with "art" here, intrinsic value is on a per person basis and will vary from person to person.
OP is a troll.. even the title of the thread says so "rediculously experienced gamers' first day". shameless self promotion. not to mention the last paragraph calling people who dont like the game pretty much retarded
He's correct, because I said so, and I accuse you of being unwilling to hear/accept any objective criticism because I'm apparently ignorant of a few posts on this thread where you have in fact done just that.
Well done, I'd expect nothing less from a fellow with a Glenn Beck supporting avatar.
I don't blame anyone for thinking me a troll at this point, though - I've been replying a tad too often. In addition to being an avid gamer, I'm also a fast typist who has too much time on his hands.
Elitists for time immemorial have pulled this stunt, I suppose its the maturing of the MMORPG or gaming industry in general that causes it now. The first person to declaim that something is in fact misunderstood by the peons and is of exceptional quality and to do so convincingly attracts certain admirers. Those of whom the original approves of, those most supportive of his own perspective or those who bring additional weight to his own opinion are welcomed. Those who do not are considered pretenders or ignorant. He is of course entitled to his opinion, he is not however entitled to speak down to anyone as any kind of authority on the subject, whether he does so explicitly or not. I don't particularly like poking trolls, and I certainly don't like having to use personal attacks, especially after the moderators have said so in the thread I am now writing to keep it civil. Have I? I really don't like arrogance, I'd much rather a discussion be held, but making lists and then excluding the people who don't get it as plainly inferior is arrogance. Of course arrogance is almost as good an ego shield as blind faith and both are equally useless. The only thing that matters in the end is that squenix is not getting my money this time around, whether its because I can't appreciate their game, or I simply don't think they spent enough time making it appeal to their targeted audience is irrelevant. Still casually insulting self styled experts has its own reward.
I think your posts have been dead-on, torment.
To the OP, get off your high horse for the love of God. It's almost painful to read your posts. You claim to not want to talk down to anyone, but your diction says otherwise. People are "appreciate" FFXIV are "connoisseurs." People who don't? Well, their concerns are trivial anyway, and after all, there's hope for them yet, since they can eat "fine dining" too! Gosh, I can't imagine why you feel the need to be so high-and-mighty. Honestly:
"Goodness, what a flatteringly in-depth fantasy about me you have. A tad beholden to stereotyping, but I suppose I can't blame a person for trying to make the world an easier place to understand through such categorization."
Word "goodness" trivializes someone's comments (again with trivializing)." Flatteringly in-depth"... let's be straight forward, you know he doesn't agree with you or your horse, so there's some juicy sarcasm. Stereotyping? How is he stereotyping? He would need some former knowledge of you to actually stereotype.
Your tone is just annoying. I don't post on these forums often at all, but you, sir, are, quite simply, too arrogant for your own good.
If you want to go around saying FFXIV has a niche audience because of its graphics, or its name, or whatever, go ahead. It is probably very much true. But don't diminish other people by claiming that the game is, in fact, "fine dining" among "fast food" when elements such as a user friendly UI and quests which are interesting without being "fed ex" quests as someone so accurately called them. Art is subjective in any case, and your feeble attempts to establish FFXIV's merit not through quality but through some ethereal finery is just pathetic. Most agree Bioshock was "artistic," but it was a good game first, and good art second.
I have really enjoyed this thread and all I have to say is I am glad I am not a coner, consur, well whatever that big fancy word the OP used is cause it sound like I would not have anywhere near as much fun gaming if I was one.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
I have really enjoyed this thread and all I have to say is I am glad I am not a coner, consur, well whatever that big fancy word the OP used is cause it sound like I would not have anywhere near as much fun gaming if I was one.
Thank you again, Sir and let's hope that the incoming comments will be balanced and mature. (However, I do hope you are also prepared for the incoming flame attack!! :P )
Prepared and largely ignoring. After all, once a fellow has set the line at, "you just don't see it," there's no real sense of arguing with them, now is there? In what I've seen so far, my universal reply would be, "yes, I see you disagreed, for the reasons exactly as I said you would." For example, I'm not going to try to convince someone of the value of travel time if they can't see it themselves, if they don't already know this then their current convictions put it beyond them to understand. To put it more charitably, there will be a differing opinion, and no chance that these opinions will change through my actions.
I would, however, clarify to anyone who thinks that this is a universal praise thread that I did point out several flaws in the game. My bottom line wasn't "Final Fantasy XIV is awesome and if you think otherwise you must be an unexperienced player," so much as "Final Fantasy XIV has its flaws, it would be nice if it were flawless, but connoisseurs among gamers will find that what FFXIV delivers is valuable enough that the flaws are trivial in comparison."
These are MMORPG forums. It's been my experience that, on any forum, the typical idle behavior will be to not read what was written and to nitpick. Neither behavior is particularly worth acknowledging. At the end of the day, this is just what it says it is in the subject line, a ridiculously experienced gamer's first day verdict, nothing less, nothing more. If they want to try to start an argument about that, it's merely a sophomoric impulse.
FFXIV is a game appreciated by carebears.
There, I said it.
And while we're at it, you just don't see the unparalleled excited brought about by PvP.
Originally posted by Mysticum Originally posted by geldonyetich In the end, Final Fantasy XIV is a game best appreciated by gaming connoisseurs: those who have a taste for fine quality in the details of their games, to the point where they're willing to overlook the kinds of flaws remaining as trivial in comparison to what is being delivered.
I realize that most people see the world as they want to see it, rather than the way it really is, but this is just comical. FFXIV is an amateurish piece of crap, and any gamer worth his salt would laugh it off the hard drive quicker than you could say "software mouse rendering." I know you realize this, opting as you do to forego actual argumentation in favor of inviting us to submit mindlessly to your authority as a seasoned veteran. As if your age somehow lends credence to your ridiculous assessment of this awful game! It doesn't. At all. I think you've misunderstood something very fundamental about gaming if you think having a "taste for the quality in the details of ... games" is somehow indicative of good judgment. My mom would appreciate the "details of a game," since she doesn't actually play them and is thus forced to approach them from a non-gaming angle. As for me, I appreciate GAMEPLAY, as do all real gamers, veterans and rookies alike. Not only are you obnoxious in the way you assume your age and experience to wow us, but you are also demonstrably clueless. No amount of server-side improvements will fix the problem of a laggy UI and laggy controls. Those are caused by shitty coders without a clue. As for the distinction between "casual" and whatever you want to call the opposite of casual, you've got it backwards. "Casual" is YOU, in love with how gosh-darn purty it all is, whereas dedicated players care about two things, and two things only: gameplay and responsive controls. FFXIV has neither. Instead it has cutscenes. Yippee. Please don't ever post again.
Because judging a game based on FRIGGING BETA!!!!!! is really smart!!!! /sarcasm off
Please don't post again unless you have the cojones to wait until LAUNCH to judge a game. Especially a game made by SE who is KNOWN for not including every little detail in their patch notes, betas, and general information.
Well I've been playing games as long as you (teethed on the intellivison, first mmo was kesmai) and would like to say a few things... first, nice troll both fanbois and haters are going to get riled up on this one. Second, I disagree with the ease of use vs detail, there is no reason not to have both available.
An interface so bad it keeps you from being able to focus on the detail destroys the whole purpose of that detail in the first place... and the interface is primitive and poorly designed, I've written better for games and I suck at interface design. (and I did and do play (presently) ffxi, hell I play nethack (ascended), angband (handful of wins across vanilla and derivatives (mostly tome)), and dwarf fortress (my mega project got eaten by demons from hell... whoops) speaking of difficult interfaces...)
ffxiv's interface is just flat out dated and poorly designed and currently much of the configuration of it is broken. Controller works well though.
I'm still downloading the client, but from everything I have read - it sounds very similar to its predecessor. That game was not designed with a mouse in mind, the UI was not similar to all the other MMO's, the quests were few and the grind was hard. The travel was long.
And yet, it had an appeal to a lot of people. More so in Asia, where gamers seem to prefer a longer grind type game, and can adapt to different systems. I therefore presume this game is trying to appeal to the same demographic, rather than trying to widen its audience to the EQ/WoW/LOTRO/AOC/WAR playerbase.
Which is good, I think. Better a game knows and understands its audience, and tries to deliver to them, then a game that wants to appeal to everyone, and in so doing, appeals to none, and ultimately fails.
I'm still looking forward to trying it, despite the negatives I have heard.
Thanks, OP for the clear write up.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Comments
So in order to play the game, I not only have to pay for the game itself, but another $50 for a controller? PC games shouldn't require a controller, I have an expensive gaming mouse and gaming keyboard for a reason.
Sure thing. Just as soon as I see some that I didn't already mention one I didn't already take into account.
Besides, pro tip: it's not "proving your mettle" to address anything expressed by some spaz on an Internet forum. You can extend that same principle to me if you want, but as far as I'm concerned nit picking is too easy for me to care you're able to do it.
I'm finding it hard to believe avid gamers don't have a USB controller for their PC's or that it's only use would be this for game.
I do have a USB controller (Saitek P880) which works well, but I don't use it much. I find WASD for movement and IJKL for mouselook, home to open menu, cursors/enter/esc for menu navigation to be pretty comfortable. Of course, your milage may vary - perhaps having such keyboard skills is a part of the skill set of an avid gamer.
You say the game is an unintuitive grind (which I completely agree with), yet you call it "quality". There are no quality games that frustrate you or waste large amounts of your time.
What you're really trying to say here is that "FFXIV is for people that enjoy slow-paced, simplistic MMORPG's and don't mind repetition or uneventful exploration".
Furthermore, FFXIV (the PC version anyway) has issues that a high-end PC will not fix. Console ports suck, that's just how it is. "Ease of use" is not an "easy button", it's something that makes the game more enjoyable. Someone with "ridiculous amounts of gaming experience" should know that.
Sorry geld, that post was directed at the general "concern" of others using that argument. Not directly at you
To make it simple,
The game is nothing more than a console port as they did with their first venture in MMOs. Off the back, they implemented gamepad usage from the get go. The game reeks of "bad port" and plays like such. I tried to overlook the small thing such as "No Jumping" shouldn't bother me, but it does.
I played for about an hour. The game flatout does not impress beyond graphics. This should do well on what ever console they implement it on, but, Square, once again, shows that they do not know how to seperate the differences between Console and PC gaming.
Good game ideas, but, poor implementation.
WinnTech
Elitists for time immemorial have pulled this stunt, I suppose its the maturing of the MMORPG or gaming industry in general that causes it now. The first person to declaim that something is in fact misunderstood by the peons and is of exceptional quality and to do so convincingly attracts certain admirers. Those of whom the original approves of, those most supportive of his own perspective or those who bring additional weight to his own opinion are welcomed. Those who do not are considered pretenders or ignorant.
He is of course entitled to his opinion, he is not however entitled to speak down to anyone as any kind of authority on the subject, whether he does so explicitly or not. I don't particularly like poking trolls, and I certainly don't like having to use personal attacks, especially after the moderators have said so in the thread I am now writing to keep it civil. Have I? I really don't like arrogance, I'd much rather a discussion be held, but making lists and then excluding the people who don't get it as plainly inferior is arrogance.
Of course arrogance is almost as good an ego shield as blind faith and both are equally useless. The only thing that matters in the end is that squenix is not getting my money this time around, whether its because I can't appreciate their game, or I simply don't think they spent enough time making it appeal to their targeted audience is irrelevant.
Still casually insulting self styled experts has its own reward.
On the contrary, just because it's unintuitive and possesses the qualities of a grind does not completely dissolve the possiblity that it is a quality game in spite of these qualities.
Your exaggeration does little justice to yourself or Final Fantasy XIV What you've written here is a bit like saying, 'well, I guess you can enjoy bowling if you like carrying stupidly heavy weights and throwing them down boring, uneventful lanes."
You're right on two adjectives used: Final Fantasy XIV does possess a slower pace than, say, Champions Online - not that all MMORPGs need to be viscerally fast, you know. It also possess qualities of reptition, as just about all computer RPGs do.
However, it's actually a bit of a stretch to call the game simplistic, it actually gets pretty complicated in terms of the abilities you'll have at your disposal to mix and match after you gain a few job ranks, and kicks that complication into overdrive by the time battle regimens enter the picture. Also, exploration is hardly unventful not only is the atmosphere excellent even on peaceful walks, but there's quite a few events: encountering hostile monsters (happens away from the starting area of course), finding places to gather resources, encountering your fellow players in need of help, and even a few things outside of the norm like impromptu monster hunts called by NPCs.
I explained this as I see it, but whether or not you can see this is why I said this is really why it's a game that suits conniseurs better.
Exactly what does my having a ridiculous amount of gaming experience have to do with harboring such an easy kneejerk reaction about console games ported to PCs? Yes, it's oftne the case that a PC version of a console developed game will receive secondary priority. However, tell me that you can't enjoy, say, Arkham Asylum: it's not a universal.
Furthermore, it should be fairly clear by the fact that this game is coming out on the PC first that this is not a secondary platform in the eyes of Square-Enix. They just chose to keep the Interface this way because it follows the style of hte processessor, FFXI, and perhaps the Final Fantasy game line in general.
Goodness, what a flatteringly in-depth fantasy about me you have. A tad beholden to stereotyping, but I suppose I can't blame a person for trying to make the world an easier place to understand through such categorization.
No, good sir, I'm afraid I just had as simple truth to convey, that this game won't suit everyone, it will specifically suit those who have the necessary experience to identify hte value of the game, and that this leaves me vulnerable to such easy labels.
OP is a troll.. even the title of the thread says so "rediculously experienced gamers' first day". shameless self promotion. not to mention the last paragraph calling people who dont like the game pretty much retarded
He's correct and you are a fan who is unwilling to hear/accept any sort of objective criticism.
After Playing for 2 days in open beta I personally don't feel that the UI or learning curve is a serious game breaking issue to me.
I think games like WOW have spoiled us, they make this huge tutorials that teach us everything we need to know, like a father holding his daughters or sons hand and showing them around. This is a good way to attract more people, its easy and people like that.
FFXIV isnt like that and thats not because of a serious flaw, thats because its not supposed to be like that. A game like this is basically a drop you off and you learn things on your own. This is not a flaw on SE's part its to give you the feeling of being a new adventurer in a big new world . This games main focus, unlike most mainstream mmos, is on the road to the end and not the end itself.
Bottom line is this game is by no means perfect, but most gripes and complaints ive heard were against intentional design choices to make the game more immersive for its players.
Even if you dont like the game you must respect SE for taking the game in the direction they want, whether popular or not, and not following the standards of most games.
Thats just my opinion though and I dont make any claim of it being fact.
I agree tutorials shouldn't give you everything you need to know. but there are virtually no tutorials in FFXIV and there should be some to explain a bit more than they do, or at the very least a codex of knowledge to research in the event something comes up you know nothing about
This is very true. I find it hard to believe anyone who only claims to have played games for a long time with no specifics. To speak as if you can appreciate games more than a "casual" gamer is nothing but complete bunk. There are many problems with the game in question. The biggest is the quality one could have come to expect from Square Enix.
Their games were at times trying especially if you went as far as to get the Japanesse versions. Some were actually downright brutal including the first Final Fantasy. This level of difficulty was not found in this game as far as actual gameplay goes. I can see that the graphics are wonderful, absolutely jaw dropping at times. The controls were obviously meant for a controller but I didn't have to much trouble using my mouse/wasd combination. The downloader I actually utilized with no issue, but I tend to leave the bigger downloads open when I sleep.
There are other issues many have addressed including lack of documentation, firstly all should realize this is not a trial. Many people forget that in betas this sort of thing is something a beta tester should be able to figure out. You should be trying everything you can to break the client, pressing random buttons, and the like. This may be the complete version and it may not, this should be kept in mind. I am not excusing it because it is a beta but instead reminding everyone that this product is still not complete. Everyone invited to the open beta is supposed to test it so they CAN finish it.
Though I can see this as art as well, it still needs to play well and be accessible by all with the machine to run it. The wonderful vistas, the fluidity of animations (which did not remain consistant in engine cutscenes), and the voice acting were up to par with Square's past level of quality. What I really found lacking was the great battles I remember from their single player offerings which can be brought to this format easily. I applaud Square Enix for their attempt and I may give it another chance after launch but I could not force myself to continue testing this build.
I hope others have a better experience with it and that the OP continues to enjoy it. I will qualify all my statements above by saying I enjoy single players much better than an MMO and I tend to come down hard on MMOs because they have such potential for story telling but so far have not had that and that's what I expected to find in a Final Fantasy MMO.
Good luck all,
Githern
This game is shit! Really 6 quest in 2 days and mobs that you cannot grind wtf this isnt an mmo thats even worth FTP! The grafix sweet but rest is Shit unless you like walking around for hours after doing you 6 quest!
The problem is you are stating what is fast food and what is fine dining as fact, when unlike reality where its clear ramen noodles are crap and filet mignon is fine, it isnt so cut and dried in a mmo world.
To many (and I am not one of them) WoW is the epitome of fine dining, while games like EQ1 and UO are just junkfood, and of course the same can be said for the other side.
A better analogy would simply be, WoW is Mexican food and FF XIV is Italian. Both are good, both have their audiences, and both have folks who violently dislike the other.
As we are dealing with "art" here, intrinsic value is on a per person basis and will vary from person to person.
Well done, I'd expect nothing less from a fellow with a Glenn Beck supporting avatar.
I don't blame anyone for thinking me a troll at this point, though - I've been replying a tad too often. In addition to being an avid gamer, I'm also a fast typist who has too much time on his hands.
I think your posts have been dead-on, torment.
To the OP, get off your high horse for the love of God. It's almost painful to read your posts. You claim to not want to talk down to anyone, but your diction says otherwise. People are "appreciate" FFXIV are "connoisseurs." People who don't? Well, their concerns are trivial anyway, and after all, there's hope for them yet, since they can eat "fine dining" too! Gosh, I can't imagine why you feel the need to be so high-and-mighty. Honestly:
"Goodness, what a flatteringly in-depth fantasy about me you have. A tad beholden to stereotyping, but I suppose I can't blame a person for trying to make the world an easier place to understand through such categorization."
Word "goodness" trivializes someone's comments (again with trivializing)." Flatteringly in-depth"... let's be straight forward, you know he doesn't agree with you or your horse, so there's some juicy sarcasm. Stereotyping? How is he stereotyping? He would need some former knowledge of you to actually stereotype.
Your tone is just annoying. I don't post on these forums often at all, but you, sir, are, quite simply, too arrogant for your own good.
If you want to go around saying FFXIV has a niche audience because of its graphics, or its name, or whatever, go ahead. It is probably very much true. But don't diminish other people by claiming that the game is, in fact, "fine dining" among "fast food" when elements such as a user friendly UI and quests which are interesting without being "fed ex" quests as someone so accurately called them. Art is subjective in any case, and your feeble attempts to establish FFXIV's merit not through quality but through some ethereal finery is just pathetic. Most agree Bioshock was "artistic," but it was a good game first, and good art second.
I have really enjoyed this thread and all I have to say is I am glad I am not a coner, consur, well whatever that big fancy word the OP used is cause it sound like I would not have anywhere near as much fun gaming if I was one.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx
I love you more than you could ever imagine.
FFXIV is a game appreciated by carebears.
There, I said it.
And while we're at it, you just don't see the unparalleled excited brought about by PvP.
I think you've misunderstood something very fundamental about gaming if you think having a "taste for the quality in the details of ... games" is somehow indicative of good judgment. My mom would appreciate the "details of a game," since she doesn't actually play them and is thus forced to approach them from a non-gaming angle. As for me, I appreciate GAMEPLAY, as do all real gamers, veterans and rookies alike.
Not only are you obnoxious in the way you assume your age and experience to wow us, but you are also demonstrably clueless. No amount of server-side improvements will fix the problem of a laggy UI and laggy controls. Those are caused by shitty coders without a clue. As for the distinction between "casual" and whatever you want to call the opposite of casual, you've got it backwards. "Casual" is YOU, in love with how gosh-darn purty it all is, whereas dedicated players care about two things, and two things only: gameplay and responsive controls. FFXIV has neither. Instead it has cutscenes. Yippee.
Please don't ever post again.
Because judging a game based on FRIGGING BETA!!!!!! is really smart!!!! /sarcasm off
Please don't post again unless you have the cojones to wait until LAUNCH to judge a game. Especially a game made by SE who is KNOWN for not including every little detail in their patch notes, betas, and general information.
Well I've been playing games as long as you (teethed on the intellivison, first mmo was kesmai) and would like to say a few things... first, nice troll both fanbois and haters are going to get riled up on this one. Second, I disagree with the ease of use vs detail, there is no reason not to have both available.
An interface so bad it keeps you from being able to focus on the detail destroys the whole purpose of that detail in the first place... and the interface is primitive and poorly designed, I've written better for games and I suck at interface design. (and I did and do play (presently) ffxi, hell I play nethack (ascended), angband (handful of wins across vanilla and derivatives (mostly tome)), and dwarf fortress (my mega project got eaten by demons from hell... whoops) speaking of difficult interfaces...)
ffxiv's interface is just flat out dated and poorly designed and currently much of the configuration of it is broken. Controller works well though.
Shadus
I'm still downloading the client, but from everything I have read - it sounds very similar to its predecessor. That game was not designed with a mouse in mind, the UI was not similar to all the other MMO's, the quests were few and the grind was hard. The travel was long.
And yet, it had an appeal to a lot of people. More so in Asia, where gamers seem to prefer a longer grind type game, and can adapt to different systems. I therefore presume this game is trying to appeal to the same demographic, rather than trying to widen its audience to the EQ/WoW/LOTRO/AOC/WAR playerbase.
Which is good, I think. Better a game knows and understands its audience, and tries to deliver to them, then a game that wants to appeal to everyone, and in so doing, appeals to none, and ultimately fails.
I'm still looking forward to trying it, despite the negatives I have heard.
Thanks, OP for the clear write up.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
OP is an arrogant fan boy, who has some of the most annoying, haughty diction imaginable.
FFXIV is still awesome.
EDIT: apprently I'm a fan boy too :P Oh well.