Originally posted by tiki I saw that it was called Founder's Price, but it doesn't explain anywhere what that exactly means.
But Popinjay just went on to bash on the guy for informing people like me that are just starting to do research now.
Okay, let me get this straight...
You are obviously smart enough to complete a Computer Science degree from college (it's in your avatar AND your sig)....
..... but you're not smart enough to figure out what "Founder's Pricing" could possibly mean regarding a MMO (or anything for that matter) because "it wasn't explained to you" and I misled you "at first?"
No offense, but I think you just spent over $40k studying the WRONG thing for the last four years.
I'm not trying to belittle you as you think, but this simply does not compute.
I don't think it's debatable that it is a marketing ploy as it is temporary and people are betting on an unknown quantity.
The thread that was linked also made it seem as if it were something that could be compared to other MMOs. To be able to compare it other MMOs you would have to compare it to their marketing ploy such as lifetime subscriptions and the like.
Founder pricing is temporary, we don't know what the real pricing is going to be.
Yes, we do: $14.95, like almost every other, pay-to-play MMO for many years now. I'm not sure why people still wonder what the price will be. Friends of mine will even ask. What do you think it will be?
Originally posted by grimm6th Do you think that this game will have a lifetime membership option? I know that other games have had it but I don't know when exactly how much it usually is or if companies still do it.
Sorry Grim, got sidetracked by a hypotenuse calculator on my way to the forums.
Personally, I don't think this game will ever do a lifetime membership. Usually a company will do that when they first release the game, and games that have done it are few and far between those that don't.
What is more likely is that if the game doesn't do well (unlikely) it would later adapt a F2P model to compete with SWTOR or GW2 either at the end of this year or next (those two games won't be ready before then).
Lifetime isn't a profitable model for companies anymore. F2P is far more profitable because instead of $200 lifetime one shot, it's easier for them to charge you nothing up front and get a dollar here or a dollar there over time. You don't realize you spend more than $200 buying small trinkets but it adds up.
I read that EA online gets upwards of $5k a month from some people playing FIFA Online. (admitted by EA heads)
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Originally posted by Asamighost I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
Originally posted by romanator0 With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
It's quite possible. Until I beta'd Rift I didn't think that would be a fair statement.
But after playing a few MMOs in my time, this one has little bugs to speak of. You're actually happy when you find one to report.
It is entirely possible that GW2 will have the same good fortune, but given the scale of what they said they are going to do... I highly doubt it. I think there will be tons of issues.
But if they are able to deliver in substance everything they said, people will stick around to wait til they fix it easily. I know I will as I'm subbing GW2 myself.
I'll be playing GW2 for free, and this one for $10 which is a damn good lineup and change of pace. I'll wait til next year for SWTOR (I'm betting they push that back again because after Warhammer, they don't want a second flop)
Saw a few questions again about pricing for Rift (specifically about the under $10/mo) and found this thread which gives some pretty good info vs other games.
Well, that's good to know. Though I usually don't do the bundles because I never know when I will lack time to play and won't take advantage of my price bundle.
Also, I never pick games on pricing but enjoyment. Still, nice to know they are competitive.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
I don't know what team is working on GW2, so maybe they're miracle workers, but I don't see how not revealing anything until it's done equals no bugs? Do you mean not releasing anything until it's done?
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
It's quite possible. Until I beta'd Rift I didn't think that would be a fair statement.
But after playing a few MMOs in my time, this one has little bugs to speak of. You're actually happy when you find one to report.
It is entirely possible that GW2 will have the same good fortune, but given the scale of what they said they are going to do... I highly doubt it. I think there will be tons of issues.
But if they are able to deliver in substance everything they said, people will stick around to wait til they fix it easily. I know I will as I'm buying* GW2 myself.
I'll be playing GW2 for free, and this one for $10 which is a damn good lineup and change of pace. I'll wait til next year for SWTOR (I'm betting they push that back again because after Warhammer, they don't want a second flop)
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
I don't know what team is working on GW2, so maybe they're miracle workers, but I don't see how not revealing anything until it's done equals no bugs? Do you mean not releasing anything until it's done?
By not revealing anything until it's done, they have the ability to find and fix any bugs in the game so that the people who want to buy it and play it don't find any themselves.
The one thing I've learned over the last 42 years is that if something is too good to be true, it generally is... with MMOs I've been burnt too many times that I now have a 'wait and see' policy.
So far I've heard a pretty even number of good and bad things about the game so I will be waiting until April (or until they have a trial) before I commit to it.
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
I don't know what team is working on GW2, so maybe they're miracle workers, but I don't see how not revealing anything until it's done equals no bugs? Do you mean not releasing anything until it's done?
By not revealing anything until it's done, they have the ability to find and fix any bugs in the game so that the people who want to buy it and play it don't find any themselves.
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally? That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances.
Subscriptions by definition are fee based.
So, you can subscibe to a free newsletter by email and... money goes to who?
You can subscribe to a free newspaper and money goes to... who?
Quoting one defintion out of a bunch isn't intelligent.. it's dishonest.
Subscription Meaning and Definition
(n.) Sum subscribed; amount of sums subscribed; as, an individual subscription to a fund. (n.) The signature attached to a paper. (n.) Submission; obedience. (n.) A method of purchasing items produced periodically in a series, as newspapers or magazines, in which a certain number of the items are delivered as produced, without need for ordering each item individually; also, the purchase thus executed. (n.) The acceptance of articles, or other tests tending to promote uniformity; esp. (Ch. of Eng.), formal assent to the Thirty-nine Articles and the Book of Common Prayer, required before ordination. (n.) A paper to which a signature is attached. (n.) The act of subscribing. (n.) That which is subscribed. (n.) That part of a prescription which contains the direction to the apothecary. (n.) Consent or attestation by underwriting the name.
Please. Stop. Now. It's embarrassing.
Why can't you people who want to change subject at least have some good material?
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
Guild Wars 2 will be played by quite a few people and destroy many games, but I don't think Rift will be one. (AoC, Warhammer, etc)
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
I don't know what team is working on GW2, so maybe they're miracle workers, but I don't see how not revealing anything until it's done equals no bugs? Do you mean not releasing anything until it's done?
By not revealing anything until it's done, they have the ability to find and fix any bugs in the game so that the people who want to buy it and play it don't find any themselves.
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally? That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
When i said they don't reveal anything until it's done i meant things like profession reveals and things like that. As for beta testing, they said that they will have an open beta but it won't be very long and will happen close to the release of the game.
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally?
That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
This is a pretty valid point.
Square Enix did almost nothing but in-house focused testing before they released their beta. When we saw what it looked like, people wanted more access to the focus testing because SE had assured everyone that the group they had (Japanese players) was good enough.
Turned out they were extremely wrong about in-house testing and keeping things under wraps.
Now when you look at Rift, it's been nothing but betas. They don't do what typical betas do though.. let you play for one month until you're bored of the game then sub for two months and leave.
They are wise letting only 3 day weekends of testing go down because everyone playing is always crying "PLEASE.. don't end the bet.. extend it!" on the last day, lol
It's pretty funny because most people who beta'd Rift are kinda in withrdrawls right now while we wait. Pretty engaging game.
a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances.
Subscriptions by definition are fee based.
So, you can subscibe to a free newsletter by email and... money goes to who?
You can subscribe to a free newspaper and money goes to... who?
Quoting one defintion out of a bunch isn't intelligent.. it's dishonest.
Subscription Meaning and Definition
(n.) Sum subscribed; amount of sums subscribed; as, an individual subscription to a fund.
(n.) The signature attached to a paper.
(n.) Submission; obedience.
(n.) A method of purchasing items produced periodically in a series, as newspapers or magazines, in which a certain number of the items are delivered as produced, without need for ordering each item individually; also, the purchase thus executed.
(n.) The acceptance of articles, or other tests tending to promote uniformity; esp. (Ch. of Eng.), formal assent to the Thirty-nine Articles and the Book of Common Prayer, required before ordination.
(n.) A paper to which a signature is attached.
(n.) The act of subscribing.
(n.) That which is subscribed.
(n.) That part of a prescription which contains the direction to the apothecary.
(n.) Consent or attestation by underwriting the name.
Please. Stop. Now. It's embarrassing.
Why can't you people who want to change subject at least have some good material?
This is too easy.
"a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances."
Where does it say "free newspaper" or "free newsletter". Please, tell me, i want to know.
I got the 6 month sub for the simple fact. I played VG, DDO, WAR, and AOC for 4 months each when they launched. Im sure I will give RIFT at least a 4 month trial, but with RIFT I pay 4months and get 7 its a great deal
"a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances." Where does it say "free newspaper" or "free newsletter". Please, tell me, i want to know.
romanator...
... if you really believe that the only type of subscriptions for MMOs or anything in life have to be paid by the subscribers... all I can say is:
You really should have *fixed* my spelling errors. I tend to make more of those than a mistake over something as simply understood as what constitutes what a subscription is.
I'll say it one more time... a subscription does NOT always mean you always have to pay for a product or service. It can be free to be a subscriber as well as paid for.
Have you never gotten or subscribed to a free newletter? Not even the FREE ONES from MMORPG.com that they send to you in emails, romanator? You may not like my style of delivery, but you're dead wrong here. Please.. give it up, okay?
I know SOMEONE else is reading this.. can you please put him out of his misery, so we can get back to talking about Rift again?
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally?
That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
This is a pretty valid point.
Square Enix did almost nothing but in-house focused testing before they released their beta. When we saw what it looked like, people wanted more access to the focus testing because SE had assured everyone that the group they had (Japanese players) was good enough.
Turned out they were extremely wrong about in-house testing and keeping things under wraps.
Now when you look at Rift, it's been nothing but betas. They don't do what typical betas do though.. let you play for one month until you're bored of the game then sub for two months and leave.
They are wise letting only 3 day weekends of testing go down because everyone playing is always crying "PLEASE.. don't end the bet.. extend it!" on the last day, lol
It's pretty funny because most people who beta'd Rift are kinda in withrdrawls right now while we wait. Pretty engaging game.
The Devs have already said we haven't seen everything they have to offer. I would expect another surprise before release.
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally?
That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
This is a pretty valid point.
Square Enix did almost nothing but in-house focused testing before they released their beta. When we saw what it looked like, people wanted more access to the focus testing because SE had assured everyone that the group they had (Japanese players) was good enough.
Turned out they were extremely wrong about in-house testing and keeping things under wraps.
Now when you look at Rift, it's been nothing but betas. They don't do what typical betas do though.. let you play for one month until you're bored of the game then sub for two months and leave.
They are wise letting only 3 day weekends of testing go down because everyone playing is always crying "PLEASE.. don't end the bet.. extend it!" on the last day, lol
It's pretty funny because most people who beta'd Rift are kinda in withrdrawls right now while we wait. Pretty engaging game.
It should be noted that players from Japan did not like FFXIV either. A fail game is a fail game and they failed completely.
a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances.
Subscriptions by definition are fee based.
So, you can subscibe to a free newsletter by email and... money goes to who?
You can subscribe to a free newspaper and money goes to... who?
Quoting one defintion out of a bunch isn't intelligent.. it's dishonest.
Subscription Meaning and Definition
(n.) Sum subscribed; amount of sums subscribed; as, an individual subscription to a fund.
(n.) The signature attached to a paper.
(n.) Submission; obedience.
(n.) A method of purchasing items produced periodically in a series, as newspapers or magazines, in which a certain number of the items are delivered as produced, without need for ordering each item individually; also, the purchase thus executed.
(n.) The acceptance of articles, or other tests tending to promote uniformity; esp. (Ch. of Eng.), formal assent to the Thirty-nine Articles and the Book of Common Prayer, required before ordination.
(n.) A paper to which a signature is attached.
(n.) The act of subscribing.
(n.) That which is subscribed.
(n.) That part of a prescription which contains the direction to the apothecary.
(n.) Consent or attestation by underwriting the name.
Please. Stop. Now. It's embarrassing.
Why can't you people who want to change subject at least have some good material?
This is too easy.
"a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances."
Where does it say "free newspaper" or "free newsletter". Please, tell me, i want to know.
To subscribe is to sign up (agree to) regardless if you have to pay or not. Thats why they have to make it clear if the subscription service is free or paid ("Get 24 issues with your paid subscription" and "Subscribe to our free Newsletter")
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Comments
You are obviously smart enough to complete a Computer Science degree from college (it's in your avatar AND your sig)....
..... but you're not smart enough to figure out what "Founder's Pricing" could possibly mean regarding a MMO (or anything for that matter) because "it wasn't explained to you" and I misled you "at first?"
No offense, but I think you just spent over $40k studying the WRONG thing for the last four years.
I'm not trying to belittle you as you think, but this simply does not compute.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yes, we do: $14.95, like almost every other, pay-to-play MMO for many years now. I'm not sure why people still wonder what the price will be. Friends of mine will even ask. What do you think it will be?
Personally, I don't think this game will ever do a lifetime membership. Usually a company will do that when they first release the game, and games that have done it are few and far between those that don't.
What is more likely is that if the game doesn't do well (unlikely) it would later adapt a F2P model to compete with SWTOR or GW2 either at the end of this year or next (those two games won't be ready before then).
Lifetime isn't a profitable model for companies anymore. F2P is far more profitable because instead of $200 lifetime one shot, it's easier for them to charge you nothing up front and get a dollar here or a dollar there over time. You don't realize you spend more than $200 buying small trinkets but it adds up.
I read that EA online gets upwards of $5k a month from some people playing FIFA Online. (admitted by EA heads)
"TO MICHAEL!"
I dont mind paying the price but i personally think going sub is a mistake, they should go with the same pay model as Guild Wars. Its not only my opinion here, Guild Wars 2 will destroy Rift, literally.
If they sub turns out to be a big mistake, they have shown that they are willing to take $10/mo (WITH SPECIAL PRICING!!!!!!!) so they just may decide to charge everyone $10/mo later.
SWTOR and GW2 is gonna be pretty rife with bugs probably, so people might not be happy with them at first, Rift would already have done a full expansion probably at that point so it's going to have twice the amount of content that either one of those games will have with few to no bugs.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Your opinion. Not fact.
With the team that is working on gw2 and their policy of not revealing anything until its done, i doubt it will have very many bugs.
But after playing a few MMOs in my time, this one has little bugs to speak of. You're actually happy when you find one to report.
It is entirely possible that GW2 will have the same good fortune, but given the scale of what they said they are going to do... I highly doubt it. I think there will be tons of issues.
But if they are able to deliver in substance everything they said, people will stick around to wait til they fix it easily. I know I will as I'm subbing GW2 myself.
I'll be playing GW2 for free, and this one for $10 which is a damn good lineup and change of pace. I'll wait til next year for SWTOR (I'm betting they push that back again because after Warhammer, they don't want a second flop)
"TO MICHAEL!"
Well, that's good to know. Though I usually don't do the bundles because I never know when I will lack time to play and won't take advantage of my price bundle.
Also, I never pick games on pricing but enjoyment. Still, nice to know they are competitive.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't know what team is working on GW2, so maybe they're miracle workers, but I don't see how not revealing anything until it's done equals no bugs? Do you mean not releasing anything until it's done?
*fixed your post. there are no subs in gw2.
By not revealing anything until it's done, they have the ability to find and fix any bugs in the game so that the people who want to buy it and play it don't find any themselves.
The one thing I've learned over the last 42 years is that if something is too good to be true, it generally is... with MMOs I've been burnt too many times that I now have a 'wait and see' policy.
So far I've heard a pretty even number of good and bad things about the game so I will be waiting until April (or until they have a trial) before I commit to it.
Hmm.. you mean like ghosts that are all playing GW1?
Those 'non subs'?
Or course there will be subs in GW2. They just won't be paying any money like in GW1.
Oh wait.. you think all subscriptions are 'fee based', right?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Please don't talk down to me and act like i'm stupid.
Other than that, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/subscription
sub·scrip·tion (s
b-skr
p
sh
n)
n.
1.
a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances.
Subscriptions by definition are fee based.
So, no beta testing? If they don't reveal anything until it's done, wouldn't that mean that all testing is done internally? That is a very inefficient way to test and debug any software, especially something as complex as an MMO.
So, you can subscibe to a free newsletter by email and... money goes to who?
You can subscribe to a free newspaper and money goes to... who?
Quoting one defintion out of a bunch isn't intelligent.. it's dishonest.
Please. Stop. Now. It's embarrassing.
Why can't you people who want to change subject at least have some good material?
This is too easy.
"TO MICHAEL!"
When i said they don't reveal anything until it's done i meant things like profession reveals and things like that. As for beta testing, they said that they will have an open beta but it won't be very long and will happen close to the release of the game.
Square Enix did almost nothing but in-house focused testing before they released their beta. When we saw what it looked like, people wanted more access to the focus testing because SE had assured everyone that the group they had (Japanese players) was good enough.
Turned out they were extremely wrong about in-house testing and keeping things under wraps.
Now when you look at Rift, it's been nothing but betas. They don't do what typical betas do though.. let you play for one month until you're bored of the game then sub for two months and leave.
They are wise letting only 3 day weekends of testing go down because everyone playing is always crying "PLEASE.. don't end the bet.. extend it!" on the last day, lol
It's pretty funny because most people who beta'd Rift are kinda in withrdrawls right now while we wait. Pretty engaging game.
"TO MICHAEL!"
"a. A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances."
Where does it say "free newspaper" or "free newsletter". Please, tell me, i want to know.
I got the 6 month sub for the simple fact. I played VG, DDO, WAR, and AOC for 4 months each when they launched. Im sure I will give RIFT at least a 4 month trial, but with RIFT I pay 4months and get 7 its a great deal
... if you really believe that the only type of subscriptions for MMOs or anything in life have to be paid by the subscribers... all I can say is:
You really should have *fixed* my spelling errors. I tend to make more of those than a mistake over something as simply understood as what constitutes what a subscription is.
I'll say it one more time... a subscription does NOT always mean you always have to pay for a product or service. It can be free to be a subscriber as well as paid for.
Have you never gotten or subscribed to a free newletter? Not even the FREE ONES from MMORPG.com that they send to you in emails, romanator? You may not like my style of delivery, but you're dead wrong here. Please.. give it up, okay?
I know SOMEONE else is reading this.. can you please put him out of his misery, so we can get back to talking about Rift again?
"TO MICHAEL!"
The Devs have already said we haven't seen everything they have to offer. I would expect another surprise before release.
It should be noted that players from Japan did not like FFXIV either. A fail game is a fail game and they failed completely.
To subscribe is to sign up (agree to) regardless if you have to pay or not. Thats why they have to make it clear if the subscription service is free or paid ("Get 24 issues with your paid subscription" and "Subscribe to our free Newsletter")
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"